 |
| Entering shops gives you a title card specific to the season. |
Note: for symmetry purposes, I so wanted to offer a posting here titled "Arena: Star Trail." I tried to think of any way I could thematically work that subtitle into an entry on the game, and I came up with nothing. The outdoor scenes don't even show stars at night.
Let's take a deeper dive into
Arena's cities. I covered them a bit in my
second entry, but I understand them better now. Perhaps the most important thing to know about Arena's cities is that when you're analyzing them, it doesn't really matter what city you cover. They're pretty much all the same. But if it helps, the city that makes up all the screenshots and examples below is Lillandril on Summurset Isle. Let's first talk about how I got here:
- When I rested in the Halls of Colossus after finding the fourth piece of the Staff of Chaos, Ria Silmane appeared in my dreams to tell me that my next stop would be "an ancient stronghold of sorcery called the Crystal Tower." All she knew about it was that you could see the southern tip of the Dragon's Teeth from it. The Dragon's Teeth stretched from High Rock to Valenwood, Since I had already found the staff pieces in Valenwood and Elsweyr, it seemed likely that the Crystal Tower would be on Summurset Isle.
- I tried to travel directly from the Halls of Colossus to Summurset Isle, but the game warned me that given "my condition," I might not survive the journey. Apparently, I had gotten diseased at some point and not noticed.
 |
| Thanks for the heads-up. |
- Thus, I traveled to the city-state of Senchal, practically next door to the Halls of Colossus in Elsweyr. Jagar Tharn appeared in a waking vision shortly after I arrived and sent two nightblades to kill me. I made short work of them.
 |
| Aw, thanks. You seem cunning and worthy yourself. |
- I got cured at a temple, then fast-traveled to Skywatch in Summurset Isle. (The game shows the character riding a horse, even though it's impossible to read the island purely by horse.) There, I sold my excess equipment, bought a "Cure Disease" spell at the Mage's Guild, and started asking around about the Crystal Tower. A couple of NPCs said they'd heard something about it in conjunction with Lillandril, on the far western side of the island.
Let's talk first about:
The Province
Summurset Isle is a province in the southwestern part of the empire of Tamriel, the only province not attached to the mainland. It's actually an archipelago of several islands; later Elder Scrolls lore will call the province "Summerset Isles" and will make Summerset Isle the largest of them. The manual says only that it's the home of the High Elves. Fans of later Elder Scrolls games know it as the seat of the Thalmor Empire, but that's a long way in the future.
Major cities are Lillandril, Firsthold, Skywatch, Dusk, Sunhold, Alinor (later, the capital), Shimmerene, and Cloudrest, Minor towns (which, it must be reiterated, are no smaller than major cities when you actually visit them) are Archen Grangrove, Belport Run, Corgrad Wastes, Ebon Stadmont, Glenview, Graddun Spring, Holly Falls, Karndar Watch, Karnwasten Moor, Kings Haven, Marbruk Brook, Marnor Keep, Old Falls, Riverfield, Riverwatch, Rosefield, Sea Keep, Silsailen Point, Silverwood, Thorheim Guard, Vulkhel Guard, Wasten Coridale, West Guard, and White Guard. I might have even missed one or two.
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| The islands and cities of Summurset Isle. |
That's a bizarrely large number of cities, and it doesn't take a particularly savvy player to realize that there's no way a 1994 game was going to populate three dozen cities in a single province with anything approaching meaningful handcrafted content. But I'm not sure that, as a 1994 player, I would have suspected that none of the cities would have meaningful handcrafted content.
No mainline Elder Scrolls title has been set in the Summerset Isles, so the only thing a player of Daggerfall through Skyrim would know about them is what's written in books and spoken by a few NPCs. I understand, though, that you can visit the province in The Elder Scrolls Online. After I wrote that long list above, I assumed that the game (as it did with Skyrim and Morrowind) kept the major cities but ignored the minor cities. I was surprised to see how many of these names were, in fact, put to later use. I suppose as names, they're good enough. They're a lot like American or British city names—a mixture of descriptive toponyms, pleasant-sounding portmanteaus, eponyms, and references to history or lore that would require some later (retconning, of course) explanation.
The City
It takes me 16 days to reach Lillandril from Skywatch. I arrive in the month of Sun's Dusk, towards the end of the year. I am greeted as I enter the city by this title card:
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| Is there a mechanism by which I could "challenge your land"? |
The player gets a similar title card when he enters any city, and the only things that really change are the dates and the final lines, which never say anything truly unique about a city. A sample from other cities:
- "The village of [village name] seems quiet, unaware of your arrival. The people here seem very friendly."
- "Although weary from travel, you find the place seems to beckon for exploration."
- "The streets seem strangely quiet."
- "Know that the guards hold this city, and will fight any who challenge to keep it."
Sometimes, the title card gives the name of the current ruler, but not here. Occasionally, I've gotten a message to the effect that some festival is happening in town, but if it has any effect on gameplay, I haven't noticed.
 |
| Note the building shapes. |
The player always starts by the gates of the city. The cities are all very large, at least 100 x 100 if the game used tiles. There are about 100 buildings in each one, most simple shapes like rectangles and Ls, some vaguely circular, a few very odd. They're all procedurally-generated, of course, but with rules such that the Mage's Guild is always a fairly complicated building with a courtyard and some surrounding walls. The nature of the procedural generation allows for large, open areas, parks, waterways, and of course elements such as lamp posts, statues, fountains, wells, and trees. The specific "furnishings" and overall textures are province-specific.
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| A city scene with trees, a river, and mountains rising in the background. |
Each city and town has:
- One Mage's Guild
- One palace
- Around 10-20 inns
- Around 3-6 temples
- Around 8-15 equipment stores
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| A shingle designates this location as an equipment store. |
These locations all have shingles hanging out front and are open during the day. Inns are open 24 hours. Every other building is an unnamed place that is never open during the day, but you can burgle it day or night.
The Inhabitants
NPCs in each city are randomly generated. Their names mash together prefixes and suffixes, with different races drawing from different libraries for both first and last names, and different sexes drawing from different libraries for first names. For instance, in Elsweyr, I noted that Bara, Sol, and Za were among the prefixes, and davi, kar, and spoor were among the suffixes, so you could have Baradavi, Barakar, Baraspoor, Solkar, Zaspoor, and so forth.
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| Like . . . furry stuff? |
Also drawn at random are NPC professions and then a little tagline they give to themselves, appropriate to that profession. These elements are all combined when you ask, "Who are you?" These are the results I got from the first ten random NPCs I spoke to in Lillandril, all of whom were probably supposed to be High Elves:
| First |
Last |
Job |
Tagline |
| Morlia |
Gaeire |
Interpreter |
I speak thy language fluently. |
| Vallisephona |
Caemius |
Servant |
I used to be a successful merchant myself. |
| Sarullan |
Spellian |
Fieldhand |
I have calluses the size of saddlebags on my hands. |
| Lilina |
Highthar |
Mercenary |
I move around a lot, but right now I'm working for the king doing odd things. |
| Vallisephona |
Highal |
Nomad |
I mostly travel around, doing odd jobs. |
| Lilimia |
Larethor |
Poet |
I don't have very many friends. |
| Saurtha |
Thromwatch |
Bodyguard |
I am one of the king's private bodyguards. |
| Andrasara |
Larethorin |
Thief |
I was thinking about picking this Breton's pocket. [I'm sure this changes based on player race.] |
| Cana |
Silinor |
Weaver |
I hope to be hired to make a new tapestry for the palace. |
| Andrasara |
Ador |
Guildmaster |
You know, I had to kill a lot of people to get where I am today. |
If you ask NPCs for their information a second time, they get snarky.
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| Burn. |
There are five types of NPCs:
- Outdoor wandering NPCs. These make up most of the NPCs in the game. They regenerate every time you leave the city and return (or go in and out of buildings). They wander all over the city, quite fast. They're only around from around 06:00-20:00.
- Outdoor fixed NPCs. These guys don't move. I think their presence is tied to specific buildings; for instance, you might find a fixed wizard outside the Mage's Guild or a priest outside a temple. Other fixed NPCs include jugglers, beggars, and alchemists. They stay where they are even at night, which makes them a nice resource for finding an inn if you happen to arrive in the middle of the night. Their introductory lines are a bit different than wandering NPCs; some of them don't give their names, for instance.
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| A fixed priest on the streets of the city. |
- Shopkeepers. These NPCs are found inside special buildings and have options related to their services, as below.
- Tavern patrons. Inns are full of patrons who stand in one place and only offer one line of dialogue, usually rude.
- Rulers. Found in palaces, these kings and queens are the only NPCs whose names (I think) don't change. They usually offer a paragraph of platitudes about their cities, unless they're giving you a quest.
Outdoor NPCs have three dialogue options:
- Who are you? That's how you get the combinations in the table above.
- Where is... Here, you can ask about the location of a specific store or service or the location of "the nearest" one. The only reason you'd ask about a specific one is if you got a random quest to go there. Either way, if you're very close, the NPC will mark it on your map. Otherwise, he or she will tell you to go in the general direction and ask someone else. This mechanic is drawn from Legends of Valour (1992), incidentally.
- Rumors. This option subdivides into "General" rumors, which at best will get you a useless bit of "lore" drawn from a random database that has no consequences for actual gameplay at all, and usually doesn't even tell you anything real about the game world. "Work" is how you get leads on randomly-generated local quests or, occasionally, artifact quests.
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| At first, I thought information like this meant something. It does not. |
Except to follow a string of them to a destination (e.g., the nearest inn), there's never any reason to talk to more than one random NPC per city. The game really dropped the ball here. They could have subdivided the utility of NPCs by their professions, the way Morrowind does.
Wandering NPCs disappear as it gets later, and monsters start to replace them. There's no explanation for how orcs and minotaurs are getting into these walled cities just because the sun goes down, but I guess that's why the land is called "the Arena."
Inns
Inns are for drinking and sleeping. Lillandril has ten of them: Dancing Jug, Flying Chasm, Green Castle, Green Giants (ho, ho, ho!), Haunted Goblin, Haunted Helm, King's Eagle, Laughing Jug, Red Griffin, and Thirsty Goblin. As you can tell, inn names are always just random selections from two word lists, often nonsensical, although so is "Elephant and Castle." Entering an inn gives the player a title card that varies a bit by location and season:
Inns are always constructed to have a large common area with two wings of rooms, storage, or both.. Some have second floors with more rooms. The common area is populated with drinkers (fixed NPCs) who say nothing but rude things.
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| "Upwind?" In an inn? |
The innkeeper is always standing at the head of the common room, wearing an apron and polishing a glass. If you've been given a rumor as to the availability of work starting in an inn, someone (off-screen) will interrupt you as you're about to speak to the innkeeper.
Otherwise, the innkeeper offers four options:
- Buy drinks. You can choose from a menu of drinks. It's a complete waste of time and money. Drinks don't make the bartender more or less likely to give you tips, and don't change the price of the room. If you drink enough drinks (way more than in real life), you can get drunk, which increases strength, willpower, endurance, and luck, but decreases intelligence, agility, speed, and personality. The amount of the increase or decrease depends on the number of drinks you've had (if you keep drinking, then can go to 0 and you can die). Even if there weren't better ways to manipulate your statistics, the effects don't last long enough to make any difference. They always wear off when you fast-travel, which is the only way to get to a dungeon for the next quest.
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| It's a cute pun, anyway. |
- Get a room. Lets you rent a single room, double room, suite, or king's suite for base prices of 10, 20, 35, and 50 gold, respectively. (There's a haggling mechanic, but it would be such a waste of time to bother with.) The quality of the room is supposed to affect heath and mana regeneration rates, but even in the cheapest, both regenerate so fast that you don't notice the difference when you pay more. Once you pay, there's no way to tell which specific room is "yours." You hit the "Camp" button and wake up in one of them.
- Sneak into a Room. You can avoid paying by just entering a room and going to sleep. If you literally try to do that (e.g., walk your character into the room and hit "Camp"), it doesn't work. You have to do it through this menu option. Curiously, if you fail, you're attacked not by guards but by monsters like zombies.
- Rumors. It's the same as asking an outside NPC.
I spend a lot of time in inns because I often arrive in town after dark, and there's nothing to do while waiting for shops to open in the morning.
Temples
There are a limited number of temples in the game, their names drawn partly randomly. There are three in Lillandril: the Brotherhood of Temperance, the Conclave of Charity, and the Order of the Golden Tomb. There are three temple
types ("Brotherhood of," "Conclave of," and "Order of the") followed by about a dozen possible objects, including Baal, Charity, Faith, Golden Tomb, Gideon, Justice, the One, Red Rose, Riana, and Truth. I don't think that some combinations exist, though; for instance, I've never seen Gideon appear with anything but a Brotherhood, nor the Knights of Hope appear as anything but an Order.
Temples are perhaps the most jarring element of Arena if you have foreknowledge of future games. The developers had not worked out the "Nine Divines" religion. Daedra are also absent. This leaves us to wonder who Baal and Riana are and why they never reappear (Gideon is not a person, but rather a city in Black Marsh).
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| That's more ankhs than an Ultima game. |
Temples are easy to identify from the outside because they have stained glass windows. Inside, there's no sign of those same windows. Instead, they are weirdly full of ankh crosses and tapestries. A single priest works the main hall. He offers healing, curing, and blessings. It would be absurd to go to the temple for healing. Now that I have a "Cure Disease" spell, I'll never need them for curing again. As for blessings, you're asked to donate some gold, after which the priest says, "Receive our blessings." You get this message no matter how much gold you donate, so I'm not sure how to tell when you've actually received a blessing. I'm told online that a blessing doubles your chance to hit for 24 hours. If so, a) it's never been reflected in the "To Hit" statistics on my character sheet, and b) big whoop, because it takes more than 24 hours to get to the next dungeon from just about any city
Stores
Lillandril has Cyrellon Gaeaire's Tool Store, Elite Equipment Store, Lovimon's Quality Equipment Store, New Supply Store, The Basic Provisions, The Practical Tool Store, Unearth Sundries, and Unearthed Weaponry Store. Again, you see some combinations of random words. The names mean nothing; all stores have the same services and sell the same types of items.
Inside, all proprietors are burly, shirtless men working a forge. With them, you have options to buy, sell, repair, or steal. The items you can buy are always very basic gear, never magical, and thus a bit underwhelming. [Ed. Apparently, shops do sell magic items. I just didn't find any when I was scoping them for this entry.] They are the only people who buy your looted equipment, so they're invaluable for "sell." As with rooms in inns, you can haggle on the prices, but there's too much gold in the game and too little time on this Earth.
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| In the modern era, this guy would be on YouTube selling his "Anvil Fitness Plan." |
If you try to repair something, he'll ask to take it for 10 days. You can negotiate this, down to a single day, but at a significant increase in the cost. You can similarly object to the cost and get a proposal for a longer time frame.
"Steal" has a chance based on your attributes and class to deliver a random item to your possession. Perhaps to make it more of a risk, you can't save the game inside shops.
Stores are primarily valuable for selling and repairing, and I find myself visiting the one nearest to the Mage's Guild often.
Mage's Guild
The game sometimes gives this location without an apostrophe and sometimes the way I have it in the title, but never the way I'd do it with the apostrophe after the "s." In any event, there is only one of these per town. As with temples, the building is quite visible from the outside, as its walls are covered in arcane symbols. It's also inevitably one of the more complicated buildings in town, with walls or hedgerows making it difficult to see and access the main entrance.
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| The mage's guild from the outside. |
I would say the Mage's Guild is the most important building in town. Here, you can:
- Buy potions. As I mentioned last time, since potions are cheap (relative to the amount of money you make) and have no weight, they are almost a game-breaking mechanic. Maybe not even "almost."
 |
| I could buy 785 of these. |
- Buy magic items. This is primarily how non-spellcasters get magic abilities, though the selection is always small and it may take several visits to find what you're looking for.
- Buy spells. Buy a selection of pre-created spells like "Light," "Heal," and "Levitate."
- Detect Magic. This is the only way to identify magical items in the game.
- Spellmaker. This is how you make your own spells, which can combine effects and make use of effects that aren't available under the "Buy Spells" option. More below.
- Steal. Does the same thing here as inside shops, although you have to choose whether you're going for potions or other magic items. I've clicked it accidentally a couple of times.
After every expedition, I typically go to the Mage's Guild first, identify things I'm not sure about, and then go to the nearest equipment store to sell them.
As for spells, the following conditions are available:
- Cause: disease | poison | paralyzation | curse
- Continuous damage to: health | fatigue | spell points
- Create: shield | wall | floor
- Cure: disease | poison | paralyzation | curse
- Damage: health | fatigue | spell points
- Designate as non-target (make enemies ignore you)
- Destroy: wall | floor
- Drain attribute: strength | intelligence | willpower | agility | speed | endurance | personality | luck
- Elemental resistance: fire | cold | electricity | acid | poison
- Fortify attribute: strength | intelligence | willpower | agility | speed | endurance | personality | luck
 |
| Here, you see me breaking up a long list with a screenshot. |
- Heal: fatigue | health
- Transfer attribute: strength | intelligence | willpower | agility | speed | endurance | personality | luck
- Transfer figured attribute: health | fatigue | spell points
- Invisibility
- Light
- Lock
- Open
- Regenerate
- Silence
- Spell absorption
- Spell reflection
- Spell resistance
It's an impressive list, foreshadowing the spellcrafting and enchanting options in later Elder Scrolls games. That said, it's hard to imagine that anyone has ever wasted time creating spells that, say, drain an enemy's willpower or cause curse instead of just damaging him. You'd also have to be quite a min-maxer to bother with "Regenerate" instead of just casting "Heal." Maybe some players find some value in locking doors to prevent enemies from chasing you, but I don't think I'd use it unless I was going for a pacifist run.
Spells have both an economic cost (when you first create them) and a casting cost (in spell points) dependent on the power and (sometimes) the probability of success.
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| One of two spells I created this time. |
There are notably no spells that cause a specific type of damage (e.g., fire, cold, shock), making me think that the pre-created spells that sound like they do (e.g., "Firestorm") are just generic "damage health" spells with cool-sounding names. Do enemies in the game actually have resistance to damage types? I'd have to go online to find out.
During this visit, I bought "Spell Absorption," which some of my commenters have opined is practically game-breaking, as well as "Destroy Floor" just because I want to see what that does.
Palace
The palace is curiously never part of the main city map, so you never see it from the outside. Instead, you access it from a gate in one of the city walls.
 |
| The palace gates. |
As you enter, a title card reminds you of the name of the ruler (in this case, King Corridalf), which is not procedurally generated. What is randomly generated is whether the city is at peace or war with its closest neighbor. In my case, Lillandril is at war with Alinor.
 |
| I imagine all this intra-province warfare didn't happen when Uriel was around. |
The palace always consists of a long hallway, flanked by guardsmen standing at attention, leading to the main hall. The ruler stands at the apex of the main hall. He or she usually says something generic about the city and then cursorily dismisses the PC. I understand that rulers sometimes give side quests, but I haven't experienced it yet.
 |
| Approaching the king. |
Palaces have "restricted areas" off the main hall. In the case of Lillandril's palace, there is a wing with cell doors and deep pits in the middle of the cells. I assume that if you explore these restricted areas enough, you'll find treasure rooms or something, but I just keep getting swarmed and killed by armored guards each time I try.
It's hard not to be a bit impressed by the results of the procedural generation: hundreds of large cities with unique layouts and enough buildings and NPCs to mimic real-life locations. I don't know what Daggerfall is like, but nothing in the later Elder Scrolls games comes close. Naturally, however, since so much is procedurally-generated, the actual experience of "exploring" the cities leaves me uninspired. Not only are they thematically boring, but they're also geographically boring—all perfect squares, no hills, no unique monuments or architecture. For all the effort that Bethesda put into them, they may as well be menu cities.
It's still an interesting experiment, and one that continues to this day. Varied content is one key to replayability, and a little randomness isn't always a bad thing. Other games have used it for years with the spawning of monsters and the distribution of treasure with no complaints. I enjoyed some of the radiant quests of Skyrim and Starflight. It's likely that in the future, AI will be able to generate random NPCs with characteristics that aren't simply plucked from a database table but rather offer some real depth, hard to distinguish from handcrafted NPCs. It will also likely offer unscripted NPC dialogue that responds to exactly what the player has the character say, creating experiences unique for each player. I don't know if I'll like the result, but I do want to at least see what that looks like.
The head of the Mage's Guild, Corim Ashlen, gave me the beginning of the quest for the next piece of the Staff of Chaos. The Mage's Guild was recently sacked by followers of the Mad God, who made off with an important diamond. The diamond will allow its user to see the location of the Crystal Tower on a special map. I agreed to go find it, and Ashlen marked the location of the Temple of the Mad God on my map.
 |
| The series uses so many of the seeds planted in this game, I was surprised to find that we never hear about Zaraphus again. |
But rather than head right there, I was tempted by the thought of going on another artifact quest. I left the Necromancer's Amulet for repairs at the Practical Tool Store and began asking around for hints. The first hint I got was for the Lord's Mail, which I don't think I can wear. I kept asking and got a lead on the Oghma Infinium, a "book of incredible power."
 |
| A reference to the reavers of Skyrim two decades before Dragonborn. |
A few minutes later, I was in the Haunted Helm, buying a tip from an informant. He gave me the location of the Catacombs of Skulvor in Skyrim, where I'll supposedly find a map to the artifact. Whether I want to prolong the game by going for the artifact is something I'll decide next time.
Time so far: 22 hours
Not a perfect symmetry, but given the main quest of this game, an entry could be titled "Arena: Staff Trail".
ReplyDeleteAlternatively, "Arena: The Trail is the Star".
Fittingly for your remark in this blog entry, there is an Elephant carrying a Castle carved in the choir stalls of -Chester- Cathedral in England.
Even if there was an air current inside an inn, wouldn't it make more sense for the patron to ask you to go downwind from him (assuming he's insinuating to be bothered by your smell)?
outdoor scenes don't even show stars
DeleteSo how about: "Arena: Starless Trail?"
I wonder how much this game was inspired by the Elite series of games (that procedurally generate planets and solar systems), particularly since Frontier (Elite 2) came out in 1993.
ReplyDeleteI think that this thing is clearly Rogue 3D with some improvements.
DeleteDaggerfall is much the same, but refined and mildly more interesting. The skills give you some very superficial role-playing options in that you can choose a disposition to use when talking to NPCs, and the architecture is slightly more varied.
ReplyDeleteOther than the skill system changing how combat and character development work (which imo is a massive improvement), it's basically "Arena but slightly better in every way."
Dungeons are completely different in Daggerfall. Daggerfall also adds the guilds, the material system is closer to later Elder Scrolls games, and the wilderness is different, too. I recognized a lot in Arena coming from Daggerfall, but they are still very different games (at least for two first-person 3D RPGs in the same setting).
DeleteDaggerfall is a lot closer to Arena than Daggerfall is to Morrowind. I agree the dungeons are the main difference, though - and I hated Daggerfall's dungeons with a passion.
DeleteYeah Daggerfall's dungeons are practically a game-killer. You'd better drop a mark to teleport back to the entrance or you'll never find your way out. Assuming you don't fall through the geometry and rage-quit in frustration that is.
Delete"I don't know if I'll like the result, but I do want to at least see what that looks like."
ReplyDeleteAnd are you expecting anything along those lines from 'Elder Scrolls VI', or will it just be 'Skyrim' but in a different province? I'm betting on the latter...
No, I agree. VI will probably be like Skyrim but in a different province. Which is fine. As I said, I'm not sure I'll like the result, so I'd rather my first experience with it came from an experimental title rather than a mainstream sequel that I'm otherwise looking forward to.
DeleteThere's always 'Dwarf Fortress' in adventure mode though, coming pretty close to what you were envisioning there.
DeleteRegarding the reasoning behind a mirrored title:
ReplyDelete- Can your character Rochester now be considered a star/celebrity? And here his journey/path continues.
- Does the city's name Skywatch have anything to do with astronomical/astrological observations?
- Then the mage guilds which he visited one after the other are decorated with stars, moons, and suns.
Yes, it's all v e r y contrived…
"Sneak into a Room. [...] Curiously, if you fail, you're attacked not by guards but by monsters like zombies."
That's a strange, maybe funny, case for a trash mob...
I'm curious how Arena stacks up against another game that tried to do something similar: Dungeon Hack.
ReplyDeleteDungeon Hack is just a Roguelike with better graphics (and fewer mechanics). I'm not aware of any roguelikes before 1994 that procedurally generate cities.
DeleteI think I made the comparison a couple entries ago. It's hard to compare directly since they're otherwise very different games, but they both feel similar in that they result in a certain briskness of gameplay that can be fun if you're in the right mood.
DeleteI am now far behind you. Might not catch up with you anymore.
ReplyDeleteRegarding Castles: I explored one and I didn't find any treasure. You can pacify the guards with Sanctuary spell, very useful. You don't have to fight them.
Maybe it's random and some castles do have treasure?
There is at least one city with unique architecture and that was Rihad with it's vaguely North African vibe. I haven't encountered that type of city again. I see at least two different city looks: the one that you have here in the screenshots and the type that Skyrim's cities looked like.
The festivals have some effects: sometimes the prices in the Mages Guild get a 50% discount.
Thanks for the additions. I'll check out RIhad, but my guess it's just swapping textures. My larger point is that you're not going to run into a city with a 10-story tower in the middle, a huge statute of Azura, or a palace built into a cliff face.
DeleteI should have remembered "Sanctuary," since I wrote about its effect ("Designate as non-target") here. I guess that spell would be a great addition to a thief.
From a pure gameplay perspective, do the Oghma Infinium quest
ReplyDeleteSeconded. Mechanically, I think the Oghma Infinium is one of, if not the, best artifacts in the game.
DeleteQuidfecisti
ReplyDeleteThat comment was a little terser and more cryptic than I'd planned. Feel free to delete—I was just going to ask if you were actually talking about Starflight, or if you meant Starfield. (I also seem to have a huge block about getting the name of the latter correct, although I usually land on Starcraft.)
DeleteWhile we are at mirroring: In Blade of Destiny, random people in random taverns give off random comments taken from an incredibly large database, and virtually all of them have gameplay relevance, even if it's just highlighting the blacksmith with the best prices or something. If Star Trail does the same, that would be some sort of distortion mirror, I guess.
ReplyDeleteAlso, how does a city with 100 buildings support 20 taverns? Really thirsty castle guards?
Curiously, Starfield's random content generation isn't much updated from Arena. But you're right, AI could bring a change, if the AI manages to pass the Turing Test. In the end, people want a story, though, a human perspective. Starfield was still lacking in that department.
ReplyDeleteI remember that in 1994 I was super impressed with the snow and fog effects in town. They were very well implemented for the time.
ReplyDeleteI also think the weather effects are tied to the province too. ie. It snows a lot in Skyrim and it's foggy all the time in Black Marsh.
The architecture definitely changes per province, but also within the province. Towns on the borders of a province will have a mix of styles that central provinces do not. You can see this clearly if you travel within Hammerfall; the central ones are all vaguely Arabian, but the provinces close to Cyrodel or Valenwood have other features lacking in the central "desert" provinces like green parks and trees.
I confirmed that while in town the sun definitely rises in the West and sets in the East.
Btw, the equipment shops do sell magic weapons and armor, but you get better stuff from adventuring.
This was a very ambitious game in 1994, but it just wasn't that fun. I remember being totally inspired by what they were trying to do, however. I wrote up pages of notes of what I would do with that engine, if given the chance. Most of them were implemented by Skyrim's release.
There's something comforting about it's simplicity as well. Your point about it being fun if you are in the right mood is spot on.
"Btw, the equipment shops do sell magic weapons and armor, but you get better stuff from adventuring." Apologies for the error on that. I went to three or four places, didn't find any, and generalized from a small sample.
DeleteWhat's the difference between Designate as non-target and Invisibility?
ReplyDeleteNot only do equipment shops sells magic & higher quality weapons and armor, but it seems that specific shops in specific cities always have at least some of the same selection each time. There was a list I found somewhere online, and indeed if you're looking for something specific (e.g. ebony katana of agility), you can track down a specific shop in a specific city that has it.
ReplyDeleteI previously didn’t believe much in the storytelling capabilities of random generative systems (mechanics, gameplay, sure, but narrative?) - but Wildermyth convinced me it could be done right. AI won’t fundamentally change things, it’s just another tool, ultimately it’s about the design. Developers who used algorithms to do boring and repetitive stuff will use AI to do boring and repetitive stuff. Those who had great vision will still have it. Also we’ve had Markov models and Generative grammars since the 1950s, now we label it AI, but LLMs are fundamentally the same thing, the tools were already there.
ReplyDeleteWildermyth is a fascinating game. It's both a good tactical CRPG, but also a meditation on aging and death.
Deletehttps://the-artifice.com/mental-illness-games/
DeleteYou can change the type of spell damage, "Save Vs" is a menu and not just telling you something
ReplyDeleteRegarding LLM AI; I think while it may be useful to assist in immersion, due to the nature of the technology, which is erratic, based on a huge swathe of training data, and the complexity of actually connecting quests to whatever the bot says, as well as the reasonable distate that consumers have towards it, I would not count on it.
ReplyDeleteIt would also devalue the artistic integrity of the game, since the creatives do not have the ability to shape the narrative. Procedural generation works well in games like No Man’s Sky and Minecraft in creating interesting terrain and fauna, but I have not seen reports of its success in dialogue. Dwarf Fortress perhaps, but not quite. Someone mentioned a game called Wildermyth, but that seems to be still mostly human written, just more sophisticated in its implementation of randomisation. In the prior cases, generation is closer to Arena’s implementation in conception compared to LLMs.
In real life, most people are not offering you interesting side quests or narrative import. Perhaps the LLMs could populate the general population and the important people could be human written. I still think I would prefer single line NPCs.
Yeah Wildermyth is just storylets à la Fallen London, it’s got nothing to do with LLMs.
DeleteAI generated content (dialogue and text in the case of LLMs) is already happening, and will be used more and more in the games industry.
DeleteI think the technology for AI generated live dialogue is basically already there. The developer in this case only writes the context for the character, which is passed to the LLM alongside the player dialogue. I've written myself a strict french teacher for learning french with just a few lines of context, and that worked remarkably well. It's also not that hard to mix pre-written dialogue with LLM dialogue.
There are some challenges still:
- Local LLMs are not good enough and lack good safeguards. Players currently would have to accept an online interface in their game, and possibly paying by API call.
- Players breaking the context.
- Localization might be an issue, if you want to go beyond the major languages the models are trained on.
I liked the interpreter's generic tagline: "I speak thy language fluently." Yes, just archaically.
ReplyDelete