|
I wonder when the actual "betrayal" will happen. I'm going to be full of angst until it does.
|
Betrayal at Krondor
United States
Dynamix, Inc. (developer and publisher);
Released 1993 for DOS on floppy disk; re-released in 1994, 1996, and 1998 on CD-ROM, each time with different features
Date Started: 23 July 2024
My blog was not yet a year old, and I was still going through my first pass (of many) of the early 1980s, when a reader first wrote and said he was looking forward to my coverage of Betrayal at Krondor. Despite it being repeatedly mentioned since then, I have managed to keep myself entirely ignorant of it. Until last month, I didn't know anything about its background, interface, or plot.
I was surprised, then, to find that like the recently-covered
Circuit's Edge, it is based on a series of books, themselves based on a home-grown tabletop RPG setting created by a group of University of California, San Diego students. The author of the books is Raymond E. Feist (1945-), and the first novel,
Magician, came out in 1982. Together with
Silverthorn (1985) and
A Darkness at Sethanon (1986), the novels make up the "Riftwar Saga," which itself is part of the "Riftwar Cycle," comprising another 27 novels through 2013 (some written by other authors), including
Krondor: The Betrayal (1998), a novelization of this game. Feist apparently didn't write the dialogue or descriptions in the game, but he did contribute a plot outline. The game is organized like a novel, in distinct, named chapters--which I believe is an RPG "first."
|
Never mind.
|
Also like
Circuit's Edge,
Krondor apparently came about when a CRPG designer--in this case, Dynamix's John Cutter--fell in love with a book and approached the author about a CRPG. Cutter had worked for Gamestar and Cinemaware before joining Dynamix in 1991. His history up to this point is mostly racing and sports games. Dynamix hadn't done much with RPGs, either; before now, we've only seen them with
Sword of Kadash (1985). More encouraging is the presence of writer Neal Hallford, whose text and manuals were some of the best parts of New World's
Tunnels & Trolls (1990) and
Planet's Edge (1991).
I put plans to post about the game on hold until I could read the three (actually four, as in the U.S., Magician was split in two) novels that precede the game. The books and game are set in the world of Midkemia, a Middle-Earth like world with humans, elves, dwarves, goblins, trolls, and dragons (but no hobbits). The world has several continents and many lands, but most of the action takes place in the Kingdom of the Isles. (It's a bit of a misnomer, as it started within a small group of islands but later spread to encompass most of the northern part of the continent.) The capital, and residence of the king, is far to the east on the island of Rillanon. The territory stretches so far to the west, to the Duchy of Crydee, that a second quasi-capital exists about halfway in between, on the Bitter Sea, in the City of Krondor. It is ruled by a duke who, by tradition, is next in line for the throne of the kingdom.
|
This is a pretty small credits list for a 1993 game.
|
The book series starts from the perspective of Pug, an orphan in Crydee, who becomes an apprentice magician. Even as the books grow in complexity to include more points of view, almost all of the principal characters come from Crydee, including Pug's friend Tomas and the three sons of Duke Borric: Martin, Lyam, and Arutha.
The books begin in kind of a stasis. There's no overwhelming threat like Sauron. Other than occasional goblin raids and skirmishes between the Kingdom of the Isles and the southern Empire of Kesh, the primary threat is posed by the Brotherhood of the Dark Path, or Moredhel, an off-shoot of the elves. In ancient times, the elves were a slave race to the Valheru, the dragon lords. When the Valheru were defeated and cast off, the elves split into multiple factions, the Moredhel intent on claiming the power of their former masters and becoming the rulers of the world.
|
The book that started it all.
|
This stasis is upset when humans from another world start showing up on Midkemia. What starts out as scouting parties soon turns into a full-blown invasion. The aliens, called Tsurani, come from a world called Kelewan, ruled by an empire with a strict social hierarchy (including slaves). Magicians in Kelewan are revered as demi-gods called "Great Ones" and given free license to do whatever they want as long as they pledge to serve the empire. (Feist apparently adopted many of the characteristics of Kelewan from M.A.R. Barker's Tékumel universe as seen in the 1974 tabletop RPG The Empire of the Petal Throne.) These magicians have found a way to open a stable rift to Midkemia, a tempting prize because Kelewan has almost no metals.
The bulk of Magician concerns the war between the Kingdom of the Isles and Kelewan. Duke Borric becomes the primary leader of the kingdom's forces while Lyam fights alongside him and Arutha and Martin make an alliance with the elves and dwarves to defend the regions around Crydee. Pug is lost in a raid on the rift and taken to Kelewan as a slave. After several years, his magical powers manifest themselves; he is taken for training as a Great One; and he becomes a powerful member of the empire's Assembly. Tomas finds some magical gear that makes him fuse with the spirit of an ancient Valheru warrior, becomes a great warrior, and marries the queen of the elves.
|
The game begins with book-style narration.
|
Eventually, Pug loses his cool at a particularly cruel series of gladiator games, nearly destroys the capital of Kelewan with his magic, and flees back through the rift to Midkemia. Both Borric and the mentally-ill king of the Kingdom of the Isles die in combat, leaving Lyam as the heir (although it turns out that Borric's huntsman, Martin, is also his bastard son, causing a brief issue with the succession). An ancient wizard named Macros the Black helps Pug close the rift for good. Arutha becomes the Duke of Krondor and Martin takes over the Duchy of Crydee.
Although I read both Silverthorn and A Darkness at Sethanon, I read them somewhat quickly, and I remain confused about the nature of the "big bad" in those novels. I'll go back to them if it becomes important to the plot here. Suffice to say that Silverthorn concerns a series of Moredhel-led attempts to assassinate Arutha in Krondor, one of which leaves his betrothed, Anita, dying of poison created from a plant called Silverthorn. Arutha assembles a classic RPG adventuring party (including a former thief named Jimmy the Hand) to enter Moredhel territory, collect some of the plant, and fashion an antidote before Anita dies. Meanwhile, Pug (mostly) investigates the source of the threat, which takes him back to Kelewan (he's learned how to master rifts in the meantime). It turns out the Moredhel have united under the banner of Murmandamus, and they seek to fulfill a prophecy that they will conquer the world after "The Lord of the West" dies. But there's some connection with an ancient Enemy of the Tsurani that I don't understand. A Darkness at Sethanon, which I basically speed-read in time to finish for this entry, concerns the armies of the Kingdom fighting Murmandamus's forces at the city of Sethanon. It turns out that Murmandamus seeks to bring about the return of the Valheru. After a bunch of fighting, the good guys are victorious, and the Kingdom gets to settle down for a while.
Betrayal thus starts a brand new narrative, ten years after the events in Sethanon, so I'm not sure how much of the backstory is necessary to know. I'll introduce more if it seems like the narrative needs it. The manual also recaps the plots of the books and gives a profile of the major characters, each accompanied by portraits so cringe-worthy that if people hadn't told me how great this game is, I might have stopped right there. It looks like the developers just stuck bad wigs and false beards on anyone who happened to be around the office. I don't usually even care about such things, but almost none of them look anything like they're described in the books. The same goofy actors are used for in-game portraits and video. That's going to be distracting.
|
This depiction of Pug is actively offensive.
|
I should say that I found the books serviceable. I would call both the writing and worldbuilding slightly above average for epic fantasy, but I probably won't continue with the rest of the books in the series. I think Feist does a particularly good job narrating battles. The characters, on the other hand, are more archetypes than people. The only aspect of the novels that I thought was truly poor is the descriptions of magic. I guess I've been spoiled by Brandon Sanderson. I want rules with my magic. I want to know how things work. Pug just waves his hands and things happen.
Moving on to the game, the opening text and brief cinematic start the narrative with "Chapter I: Into the Dark Night." (I'm playing the GOG version based on one of the CD-ROM releases, so some of the elements I describe might not have existed in the original 1993 floppy version.) Seigneur Locklear is escorting a Moredhel prisoner named Gorath to Krondor. They've been hounded, attacked, and wounded by other Moredhel, so they stop in the town of Tiburn for magical healing. A mage apprentice named Owyn helps them out. A Moredhel assassin named Haseth attacks the group, but Gorath breaks his bonds and quickly dispatches him.
|
Were the wigs really necessary? I know we're talking about game developers here, but could their own hair have been that bad?
|
With many questions unanswered, the game is then put into the player's hands. Locklear, Owyn, and Gorath make up the party of three characters, which appears to be the maximum. Each character has statistics for health, stamina, speed, and strength. (Gorath outclasses the other two in all but speed.) Each also has values from 0% to 100% in 12 skills: defense, crossbow accuracy, melee accuracy, casting accuracy, assessment, armorcraft, weaponcraft, barding, haggling, lockpicking, scouting, and stealth. (My understanding is that these all increase directly through usage.) The lack of any creation process is also a bit of a black mark here at the beginning.
I should note that of the three characters, only Locklear appears in the books so far. He is introduced in Silverthorn as the youngest son of the Baron of Land's End and a companion of Jimmy the Hand as the latter transitions from thief to nobility. He is described as an above-average swordsman. He has a much bigger role in Sethanon, as one of the squires who goes with Arutha to confront Murmandamus. He falls in love with a local girl named Bronwynn, but she is tragically killed by a troll, which he kills in return. He spends most of the rest of the book in a funk. During the final battle, he saves another girl from a troll and is last seen protecting her and a group of children. In the intervening years, he's apparently become a knight.
|
In theater, this is known as "hamming it up."
|
The interface is dominated by a large exploration window, stretching all the way across the top third. The bottom third has a compass, portraits for the three characters, and six buttons: follow the road, cast a spell, encamp, show the game map, quick save, and game options. I was happy to discover that each of these options can also be summoned with a single key, and that the game options offer not only the ability to turn off music but separate options for turning off regular music, CD music, and combat music.
Clicking on the character portraits (or hitting the 1-3 keys) brings up the inventory screen, while right-clicking (or SHIFT-1, 2, or 3) brings up the character sheets. Even better, the inventory items all have detailed descriptions (as well as damage conditions). On the negative side, it appears that the only items you can equip are weapons, missile weapons, and "suits" of armor--no separate helms, gauntlets, rings, belts, boots, necklaces, and so forth. There are a lot of usable items, though, and the party shares a key ring.
|
I always like item descriptions. I'm not sure I've ever had them so personalized before.
|
Locklear and Gorath start with a broadsword, "standard kingdom armor," 6 rations, and 10 "restoratives" (basically healing potions). Owyn has a wooden staff, no armor, 11 rations, a torch, and 3 herbal packs. The descriptions of these items are told as if narrated in a book, from their points of view.
Right-clicking the character portraits while the character sheet is already active brings up a biography of the characters. In short:
- Locklear, in addition to what I already related, has become "one of the most honored nobles at the court of Krondor." He has lately been in the service "of a northern Kingdom garrison to investigate reports of a conflict raging in the Northlands." He apparently saved Gorath from another Moredhel.
|
Part of Locklear's biography.
|
- Gorath is a Moredhel of the Ardanien Clan. During the Riftwar, he gathered with the other Moredhel in the north and became renowned for his generalship against the invading Tsurani forces (that the Moredhel fought their own war against the Tsurani is alluded to in the books but not really explored). His story doesn't say what he did during Murmandamus's campaign, but after Murmandamus died, Gorath became critical of the general, Delekhan, who replaced Murmandamus as leader of the Moredhel. This probably explains why Gorath was fleeing Moredhel attackers at the beginning.
- Owyn Beleforte is the son of the Count of Tiburn, an embarrassment to his family because of his desire to learn magic. He even embezzled money from his father to hire a tutor. He is described as clever and perceptive.
The characters don't have defined "classes," but there must be some underlying class at work because Owyn has a flat "N/A" for "Crossbow" and Locklear and Gorath have the same for "Casting."
|
Owyn's statistics.
|
Movement is interesting. The game options let you set both the "step size" and "turn size." When set to "large," each turn takes you 1/16 of the way around the compass, and forward and backward movements are large enough that you're almost playing a tiled game. When set to "small," both turning and movement feel essentially continuous. You can move with the arrow keys, numberpad, or mouse (by clicking on the arrows around the compass; if this is how you prefer to move in this game, you may show yourself out). I've read online that the engine was modified from the one that Dynamix used for Aces of the Pacific (1992) and Aces Over Europe (1993), a pair of flight simulators, which might explain why there's no strafing.
|
Moving through the forest.
|
The graphics are about what you'd expect from a quasi-continuous movement game of the early 1990s, with blocky, angled hills and rocks, although the trees are surprisingly well-detailed. There are background sounds like chirping birds, for perhaps the first time in an American RPG. I otherwise need to experience more of it to have a strong opinion about graphics or sound.
As the game begins, the body of the slain Haseth is lying on the ground in front of the party. Clicking on it brings up some text that "he" has reservations about stealing from the dead, but decides to do so if it will help the mission. I'm not sure whose perspective this is supposed to be. When I reload later and do it again, this time the message is explicitly from Owyn's perspective. I'm not sure how the game decides. Anyway, the body has 4 rations and 2 lockpicks.
|
It appears you get this kind of angst every time you loot a body.
|
The map of Midkemia shows us northwest of Krondor, so I start us moving to the southeast. I've only gone a few steps when some text pops up indicating that Gorath is a bit broody and keeps looking back at his slain kin. Owyn offers to help bury him, but Gorath says that's not the problem; the problem is that Moredhel aren't supposed to attack each other. He's concerned about other assassins showing up. Locklear agrees to take off Gorath's shackles so he can better defend himself if that happens. Locklear also insists that Owyn accompany them, lest he spread word of the Moredhel to the wrong ears. "For the time being, you're my squire."
|
The game stops for some narration.
|
We come to a road and start following it south. Before long, I spot what looks like a chest on the right side of the road. I click on it and the game indicates that it's a "Moredhel box" and it has something called a "wordlock" that must be solved before it can be opened. The manual mentions these; locals think that they're "fairy boxes," but they're actually used by "traveling Moredhel to pass messages back and forth." To open them, you have to give a three-letter answer to a question posed by a riddle. [Ed., This one only had three letters, but apparently others have more.] In this case, the riddle is: "Prince Arutha, from his lofty perch / Will find our troops without a search / His men will fail, his castle too / And then what will Prince Arutha do?"
There are three cylinders with which to give answer; the first cycles through DAFS, the second through OREI, and the third through CEWN. You have to figure out a three-letter word that makes sense with the riddle. SOW? ARC? The manual actually gives you this one: DIE. I guess next time, we'll see how long it takes me to get it on my own. I suppose in the worst case, it wouldn't take too long to cycle through all 64 possibilities.
|
I somehow didn't get a shot of the dials. I'll try next time.
|
The chest has a broadsword and another set of standard kingdom armor. I give both to Owyn, who is able to equip the armor despite his mage status. It doesn't look like I could swap out his staff for the broadsword.
A little further down the road, another squire known to Owyn, Phillip, approaches the party. Owyn says he met Phillip in a nearby city. Locklear tells Owyn to get rid of the boy. They exchange pleasantries, and Phillip is suspicious that Owyn, who's supposed to be from Tiburn, is traveling south. Owyn makes up a story. Phillip says that he came to this area to try again to open a chest he saw previously--probably the one that we just opened.
|
The map shows our current position and Krondor to the southeast.
|
After the scripted dialogue, there's an option to feed Phillip some chosen keywords--in this case, just "Nearest Town" and "Inn." In response to the first, Phillip says that the town of Lafflut is coming up, and he recommends the Blue Wheel for a good meal. For the latter, he recommends the Blue Wheel or the Dusty Dwarf in Hawk's Hollow. He mentions we could just break into one of the many abandoned houses in the countryside; apparently, many people have fled a contagion south of Loriel. The conversation leads to additional dialogue options for "Empty Houses" and "Lost Items," but I don't learn much from those.
|
The next time I complain about anime, remind me that it could be worse.
|
We come to a signpost where we could go west to LaMut or south to Zon. The southern road is the most direct one to Krondor. I should mention that the manual encourages you to make use of the open-world nature of the game and poke your head into places that aren't strictly on your quest route, but I figure that in the spirit of role-playing, we should try our best to make it to the capital while pursued by assassins.
Ironically, we are almost immediately attacked by a Moredhel assassin, which gives me a sense of the combat system. It is turn-based and on a tactical grid, although you view the grid from an oblique angle rather than from the top down. You can toggle the grid on and off with the "G" key.
|
The battle begins.
|
Each round, a character can move a number of grid cells equal to his "Speed" statistic. If adjacent to an enemy, you can thrust or swing--the weapon statistics tell you the accuracy and damage from both types of attack. Generally speaking, thrusting is less accurate and more damaging. You can fire a missile weapon if you have one, cast a spell, defend, assess opponents, spend a round resting, or retreat (which isn't always successful). Finally, there's an auto-combat option if you want the game to fight for you.
I wanted to try spells immediately, I'm not sure how you're supposed to know what they do. Owyn comes with five of them: "Despair Thy Eyes," "Invitation," "Gift of Sung," "Candle Glow," and "Scent of Sarig." Clicking or right-clicking on them tells you nothing about them; neither does the manual. [Ed., It turns out that it does if you have the proper manual.] So I just had the characters surround the Moredhel and beat at him until he died. On his body, he had another broadsword and suit of regular armor and a few silver royals.
|
Surrounding and pummeling the foe.
|
I think I'll wrap up there for the first entry and give a chance for the tips and opinions to come in. Please try to avoid explicit spoilers, but let me know if I'm already making a mistake of any kind. I have to say--I don't know if I'm going to like the book-style narration of this one, especially if it turns out to be excessively linear or cuts down on role-playing. "Chapters" usually make me a little wary in an RPG. But I'll keep an open mind.
Time so far: 1 hour
The direct path to Krondor may be the most dangerous one. As I remember the story progresses after achieving the goal of a chapter, but that there is no time limit. I think I played it in a "campy" style. The depiction of the characters is ridiculous, isn't it? But the gameplay mechanics are convincing. Have fun!
ReplyDeleteYeah, my memory is that trying to follow the direction the plot pushes you in can make the game more challenging, and the economy tighter, than if you spend more time exploring, even if that means going the opposite direction from where you’re supposed to be going. Not necessarily a bad thing, though, especially since exploring too much in the first chapter could mean clearing some side quests that would otherwise enliven the later sections (I think there are a couple places where new quests crop up in later chapters, but IIRC it’s fairly rare).
DeleteThanks. I'll find time to smell the roses.
DeleteImportant to add that the contents and enemies of each map change each chapter. So let's say in chapter 1 you wander around, have some random fights and find some treasure. If you return to that same location in another chapter, you'll find different enemies, different treasures etc.
DeleteI discovered the Riftwar books in the early 90s and read the first two series. I agree that the first series is “serviceable” but the second really turned me off with repetitive writing and dialogue. However, the “parallel” series he wrote with Janny Wurts, which takes place in the world on the other side of the rift, was much better written in my opinion (presumably her influence).
ReplyDeleteI remember trying to play Betrayal at Krondor but getting frustrated with it very quickly and shortly abandoning it. I hope you enjoy it more.
I read the Empire trilogy first. I liked it a lot when I was 18, but when i tried to read it recently I found faux-Japan a bit grating and the narrative unremarkable
DeleteI think the original trilogy is well worth a read. Back in the day when I had more time I read I found the subsequent novels not worth it... same as romancer above.
DeleteI also enjoyed the Empire trilogy when I was a kid but am skeptical it would hold up today. I did think there was one cool book in the second series, focusing on one character building a merchant empire through proto-capitalist maneuvering, though also bailed after that since the rest were kinda generic and seemed to get into a “new characters mill around until godlike Pug saves the day from an escalating sequence of evil gods” pattern that, per wiki summaries, the novels wound up sticking with for a couple decades.
DeleteMy understanding on the Tékumel stuff is that Feist was a player in the campaign, so wasn’t aware that the GM was lifting from another source for that plot line. I believe Kelewan is still much less weird than Tékumel, FWIW, though I’ve never read any of the Empire of the Petal Throne stuff, and now that it turns out Barker was a Nazi doubt I ever will.
"Rise Of A Merchant Prince", presumably. It's an original premise for fantasy, I'll give it that; but I found the main character unlikable and too much of a mary sue.
DeleteYup, that’s the one - it definitely has a lot of annoying 90s antihero grimdarkery and the main character does make some self-destructive decisions (some of which do come back to bite him, I think? It’s been thirty years), but I don’t think I quite see him as a Mary Sue; “guy who is really good at capitalism but has notable flaws,” in a series that includes folks like Pug and Jimmy the Hand, doesn’t really stand out much as an author’s darling.
Delete(The whole adventurer-surfs-the-wave-of-early-capitalism thing also done, in a historical setting and much better, in Stephenson’s Baroque Cycle)
I agree that the guy in that book has notable personality flaws; that's why I find him unlikable. I find him a Mary Sue because he always succeeds at everything he tries, to a point where it breaks my suspension of disbelief.
DeleteIt's a fair point that he's probably not the only Mary Sue in the Riftwar books, though.
The merchant character you're thinking of was named Rupert "Roo" Avery.
DeleteOne minor correction, though: he wasn't a capitalist. Capitalism is an economic system, not a profession, and Roo definitely didn't believe in or abide by its rules.
Again, thirty years since I read the book, but I am pretty sure it made a big deal about how there was a nascent financialized trading ecosystem cropping up outside of the traditional guild structure, down to having these merchants and their investors meeting in newly-established coffeeshops in Krondor - which both in substance and aesthetics is indicating the transition into early capitalism. I’m not sure what ideology or playing by rules has to do with whether one’s engaged in capitalist behavior? But like Roo invests the money he got from his military service into various trading schemes for personal profit; again this really isn’t subtle (not that I recall Feist being an especially subtle writer)
DeleteThe kingdom may be shifting closer to a capitalist system, yes, but I was talking about Roo's personal behavior.
DeleteFor one thing, capitalists believe in private property rights. For another, they believe in free markets rather than government intervention. Roo jumpstarted his business career by stealing a shipment of goods from another merchant and willingly got in bed with his government in return for special favors. That's pretty much the opposite of capitalist behavior.
I suppose you could call him a CRONY capitalist, though...
All of that is completely consistent with both the theory and practice of actual capitalism (read the newspaper and then tell me capitalist businesspeople commit crimes and get special favors from governments!)
DeleteI think what you’re saying is that Roo doesn’t act like someone who believes in a free-market laissez-faire form of capitalism? I think that’s right, but a) that particular ideology is anachronistic for the 17th Century-ish era that the book is invoking, and b) per the point above that’s mostly just marketing for actually existing capitalism.
Blarg, missing a DON’T in that parenthetical, of course.
DeleteI think you're confusing "businessman" with "capitalist". Like I said: capitalism is a specific economic system, not a profession.
DeleteTo be a businessman doesn't require you to have any specific beliefs about which economic system is best. To be a CAPITALIST does. If you believe in stealing private property or having the government pick winners and losers in the marketplace, you're not a capitalist even if you're in business for a living.
What you're thinking of is *crony* capitalism. That's when you have non-capitalist policies that falsely get called capitalist in order to divert blame for the problems caused by said policies.
Whoops! That last anonymous comment was from me.
DeleteSorry, Chet, didn't mean to break your rules.
This doesn’t feel like it’s going to be a productive conversation to continue so I’ll bow out here, but I’ll just say the only one in this conversation who’s used “capitalist” to refer to a kind of person is you; I’ve referred to Roo as “good at capitalism” or “engaging in capitalistic behavior,” or formulations like that, because the relevant issue here isn’t subjective ideology but the material system in which he’s participating, and how; 2) the definition of “capitalist” that you’re using seems pretty idiosyncratic even by modern standards and doesn’t make any sense in a 16th-17th Century context, which is again the one that’s relevant here. The history of early capitalism is interesting and worth reading up on if you’re interested!
DeleteYou both could be enriched, perhaps, by learning about "homonyms" and "umbrella terms". Clearly "a capitalist" means very different things for the two of you and definitions, well, are not something to fight over, but rather something to clarify. So, to clarify: in "Das Kapital", a capitalist is someone who owns and uses a capital - a sum of money large enough to set up some kind of production shop where other people work for him using the tools and materials he buys, and then he sells the ready-made production to others, while paying the workers only a very small part of this "extra value" that is the difference between the raw materials and the final goods cost. It's the same old "buy low, sell high" stuff, only what is bought includes raw materials and the work of the workers itself, while what is sold are the wares. In this system, the profits of the capitalist depend on how much he can sell his wares for, while the earning of the workers depend on whether the capitalist can find someone/thing more cheap to use (migrants, or perhaps AI for intellectual jobs). But if no one is a capitalist at the beginning, how exactly does one get this first sum of money, this first capital? By robbery, by taking from others by force! That is "a capitalist" by Marx definition and it must equal "businessman" by the other definition. The other definition that WizardGuy uses uses the word "capitalism" as if it is a religion or a belief system, it talks about layman and priests of capitalism temple. No real capitalist in the Marxist sense believes in capitalism in the temple sense. No capitalist in the temple sense IS a capitalist in the Marxist sense - he is a fool, soon to be out-competed by real capitalists.
DeleteSo, basically, you are using two differing schools of NAMING the same reality, and if no one of you bows to the school of other, you could simply "taboo" the word capitalist and describe the facts about a person simply - facts are far less easy to disagree about than names.
[shrug]
DeleteIf you want to end the conversation that's fine by me. I'm guessing Chet wouldn't appreciate a lengthy derail anyway, even if he has been openly political in the past.
This discussion isn't political; it's semantic. I don't have a strong opinion either way, and you've both expressed yours.
DeleteBut if we're talking about the greatest financial wizards in fantasy, I nominate Tehol Beddict.
Not fair, Tehol had a God as his manservant! ;)
Delete(happy to know you're a fan of the greatest fantasy book series ever, Chet!)
The serpentwar saga (which is the one with Roo) was the only Feist trilogy I read, and I loved it!
DeleteNot to get into the semantic argument above, but it really did have some very fun business segments in a pseudo-historical world (Roo does his business buying futures at a coffee shop, which is how the early English insurance markets developed in real life, etc.). It's like a fantasy version of Noble House, for any fans of James Clavell and other "business fiction".
That’s actually quite interesting. When I read the Serpentwar first time many years ago I remember enjoying the firstpart but feeling very estranged by Roo the ruthless.
DeleteNowadays I must say the whole cycle hasn’t aged that well but can still keep up against a fair number of writers and what I do enjoy most is Mr Feist‘s world that is simply believable.
The sword would serve well enough in a sword battle, but it's performance would be lacklustre in a gun battle.
ReplyDeleteI've fond memories of this game, despite the bad wigs and gameplay quirks.
ReplyDeleteOne thing I recall is that certain events only occur in certain places in certain chapters (nothing critical though), so there *is* reason to ignore the ostensible urgency of your mission and explore. You can't go everywhere in every chapter anyway, so you can't go too far off-track—though I think you can still meander around a significant portion of the Kingdom in Chapter 1.
Thank you. That would be annoying if it weren't true of just about every RPG.
DeleteBlogspot has issues with logging me in, so hopefully this goes through properly...
DeleteI heartily second or third or twentieth doing //all// the exploring in the first chapter you can. For one reason and one reason only: It allows you to unlock a bunch of the fast-travel temples, which makes traveling around in later chapters far, far, far, far, far less tedious.
I loved the game when I first played back in the early 00s, same with Betrayal in Antara it's spiritual successor. Return to Krondor, made by PyroTechnics and 7th Level isn't nearly as good as Sierra Online's games.
I've tried a few times to go back and replay BaK, BaA, and even RtK... but I just couldn't witht he movement system being so damn tedious*. SOunds like GOG's version has made that less tedious with allowing for more rapid movement overland. So I might give it the old college try again after I pick up GOG's version.
* Same with Wasteland. Too many keystrokes to move about, what I put up with in my mid-20s I just can't in my 50s... also considering the advancements games have made. These would be good games to have "updated and modernized". Keep some of the original cheesy elements (the bad actor's and the wigs need to stay), as well as the plot, story, and pacing, but update the controls, ui, and maybe even moving into being a 3d format? I dunno. Maybe not.
Well on the character screen there are actually sliders for the skills they should focus on (Owyn can be developed defensively, they tend to go after him). Some rations are poisoned so all should be right clicked (weapons and arrows can also be poisoned later). Magic consumes health after mana so low cost is better in the beginning (actually it's possible to even take down a stone golem in the beginning with just Despair). When a character goes down they need as I recall potions, a herb pack and lots of rest, it's expensive. Weapons and armor should be treated with whetstones and hammers regularly, or just get new ones. Exploring most areas is best for skill development, but as I recall maybe one can also buy skill points later. In inns one can play the lute for some coin.
ReplyDeleteI'm going to leave this because I need someone to clarify something, but fair warning: I'm going to start being relentless with anonymous comments.
DeleteWhat do you mean that those things are "sliders"? It looks to me that the red part (towards the center of the screen) represents the skill's progression towards 100% and the blue part means the percentage left to go. If I click on the swords, I can't drag anything around. What am I missing?
I think it's a binary, not a slider, but clicking on a skill means that you're "focusing" on it and it will go up relatively faster when you use/practice it -- the fewer you select, the greater the increase, I believe, though I haven't seen the exact math. But so a way to optimize growth is to deselect everything but lockpicking right before trying to pick a lock, everything but barding right before trying to sing in an inn, etc. And then just have like maybe 3-4 selected during "normal" exploration? I don't remember doing too much of that kind of min-maxing when I played it, but I also remember it being relatively hard for the first part of the game (though per my comment above, part of that could be because I pushed straight for Krondor in the beginning).
DeleteOh, I see. That must be what clicking on the pommel gem means. That's a level of complexity I didn't need. Just reward me based on the skills I use, not for anticipating the skills I WILL use.
DeleteThe skill focus system is not implemented well. There are also times where you can pay for training to get permanent skill boosts, and if you "happen" to have those skills tagged, the training is somehow much more effective.
DeleteI didn't bother and just kept Defense & Weapon / Casting Accuracy skills tagged all game.
Yes, just select the skills that you want to progress in faster and don't bother with the micromanagement. It was clearly not intended that way.
DeleteI need to second the advice about checking all the rations you pick up. Poisoned rations can be auto-consumed and it ruined a playthrough for me. By the time I realized that was happening it was already in all 10 save slots I was using, and I didn't want to go back that far.
DeleteThanks to alerting me to that because I did have some spoiled rations. In addition to being dangerous, they were taking up inventory space.
DeleteHow do they ruin an entire game, though? Is their effect permanent?
I didn't realize that was what was poisoning me and draining my health until had been affecting me for way too long. I had spent all my money on healing that I couldn't afford to anymore, and was too weak to fight to get anywhere. I was rotating through a few saves but it had been so long that either they were all affected or I would have to go back hours. It was too demoralizing so I gave up on that run.
DeleteYou can explore the world quite freely, without worrying about a time limit. The story progresses after the conclusion of a chapter, with significant changes to the world, opening new areas to explore. Some side quests can only be encountered in a single chapter, so I think exploring (and grinding your skills) is a must, or you may miss a lot of the fun of the game. Don't forget to scan over the pictures of the places, some stuff may be hidden there!
ReplyDeleteSeconded. The first time I played, I rushed right to Krondor ASAP. It was fine, but the second time, I explored as much as I could first, plot and implied timeline notwithstanding. That was a much more fun playthrough, and I recommend the "explore as much as the chapter will let you" approach.
DeleteFWIW, I read Magician: Apprentice (the first half of the first book) and then played the game years later. I only read the other books after. They're enjoyable enough, although the Tekumel influence is really overwhelming once you're familiar with it.
Before trying to use a skill like lockpicking you should click on the hilt (is that right?) of the sword on the skill screen, so that this particular skill increases by your action.
ReplyDeleteAnd if enemies are spotted on the road they should always be clicked for a chance of counter ambushing them (and also approaching them through trees).
ReplyDeleteSmall correction: you say there are 8 skills, when there are 12 in fact.
ReplyDeleteIIRC, those blocky hills were a first for an RPG - UUW didn't have outdoor areas, while Ambermoon etc. weren't truly 3D and didn't have elevation. You can also move in map mode btw - IIRC the downside is that you don't see the enemies and chests, but it's somewhat faster, so may be useful for backtracking.
If I remember correctly you should definitely take your time and explore a lot in the first two or three chapters, because if you proceed with the story too quickly, you won't be able to go back and to the side quests of earlier chapters, leaving you with an underdeveloped party with little chance for level grinding later on. Granted it's been 25+ years since I last played this and I'm a bit foggy about the specifics, but I'm pretty sure you should take your time early on, even if it seems to go against your character's immediate motivation.
ReplyDeleteI agree about exploring a lot, but you can grind decently well later on.
DeleteHooray, Betrayal at Krondor! As others here I have warm memories of this game. It was pretty innovative for its time. And even the abysmal character costumes, which were already bad at the time when it was made, have a quirky charm: you don’t see them anywhere else, and it was a bold move to actually try this!
ReplyDeleteI actually enjoyed the writing of the game and the chapter structure quite a lot. The text is much better than anything we’ve seen before (and it made me even interested in the novels), and within the chapters you have quite a huge amount of freedom, but between the chapters the world makes some really dramatic changes. — so do explore, it’s worth it!
The 3D engine is also quite good for its time and I remember I was really impressed how well it succeeded in giving you a sense for the size of the continent. The trick they use here with an overland map and some very detailed playing areas would much later be reused in Baldur‘s Gate. Iirc until now we had developers trying to build either dungeons only or a world simulated in one perspective only. The latter approach was already problematic with Ultima VI where you pointed out the problems with suspension of belief concerning city sizes and mountains. Betrayal finds a very tasty middle ground here!
Lastly I want to point out the plot and the soundscape. Not wanting to spoil anything let’s just say past-Fincas was really surprised a few times and still remembers this one as a fine example of telling a great story where you actually play an important role, but get the feeling that also around you important things are happening. Not your standard killalong, but more like Bioware did it later (and better) with KotOR etc.
Music and sounds (I had the CD version) were very atmospheric. Nothing really game-changing, but as you said, you usually didn’t have ambience sounds in the wilderness at that time.
Enjoy the game. I‘m eager to see how you like this one!
Yeah the novelistic nature of the game is really the best thing about it. Until the modern steam indie boom there was really nothing like it and the writing was easily some of the best in video games up to that point outside of say Infocom.
Delete> "The trick they use here with an overland map and some very detailed playing areas would much later be reused in Baldur‘s Gate."
DeleteAlso the Might and Magic series!
Yeah, if you insist on having a single scale for all your maps, that system is probably the best you're going to get.
Between the ridiculous costumes and the flight-simulator outdoors, I'd have to say the overworld map is aesthetically the most pleasing thing about the presentation.
ReplyDeleteWhen I bought this game a couple years ago, I fired it up briefly to see if it worked properly on my computer and - having seen reviews were mostly glowing - was likewise struck by the amateur LARP aesthetics. I agree it just looks embarassing, is distracting and will need some time to get used to.
Delete"The next time I complain about anime, remind me that it could be worse."
Don't worry, I will ;-).
I didn't get the anime reference.
DeleteI just meant that while I don't like anime, there are worse things that can be done in the name of video game graphics. Grabbing whoever happens to be standing around and putting a bad wig on his head is one of them.
Delete"I wanted to try spells immediately, I'm not sure how you're supposed to know what they do. Owyn comes with five of them: "Despair Thy Eyes," "Invitation," "Gift of Sung," "Candle Glow," and "Scent of Sarig." Clicking or right-clicking on them tells you nothing about them; neither does the manual."
ReplyDeleteThe manual in the version I have - I think it's from the version Sierra gave away to promote Betrayal in Antara - has descriptions for about half of these spells, in the "A Guide to Spells" section, about 2/3 of the way through. Is
this not in GOG's version? Seems like it'd be a pretty big omission.
"This is a pretty small credits list for a 1993 game."
Similarly, there's a full list of credits at the end, about 50 names' worth.
I had the original floppy version, and it came with a robust manual that included details on the spells too.
DeleteYes, my mistake on the spells. I got a bad manual.
DeleteI can tell you from memory that "Despair They Eyes" blinds the target, rendering them almost helpless. Very useful, as I recall.
Delete"useful"? =D For some, it was "bordering on cheating exploit-class useful" =) I remember people refusing to use it because it made battles "boring". But maybe the version they used was bugged somewhat and it made the spell overpowered?
DeleteI mean, for how many turns exactly did it make the target helpless?
DeleteHeh. Yeah, I guess you could call it the easy mode option. :P
DeleteI don't recall how long it lasted, though. It's been a long time since I played. Also, I don't know if the spell is OP in the version Chet has. I guess he'll have to test that out on his own and then decide how much he wants to rely on it.
Two turns
Delete>"Two turns"
DeleteOkay, that's not TOO bad. Your caster can keep two people completely tied up in exchange for not being able to do anything else (plus the energy cost).
That's going to be devastating against smaller enemy groups, but larger ones can still pose a serious threat.
Yep. I was coming to say be prepared to cast "Despair They Eyes" a lot in the early game.
Delete"Feist apparently adopted many of the characteristics of Kelewan from M.A.R. Barker's Tékumel universe as seen in the 1974 tabletop RPG The Empire of the Petal Throne."
ReplyDeleteInterestingly, for me anyway, I was just reading about this game and setting, as it's covered a bit in Playing At the World. The new two-part release of Playing At the World just came out (well, the first part), which I'd recommend for anyone in the early history of tabletop RPGs.
The plot of the trilogy (especially Darkness At Sethanon) is very closely linked to the game's. An important plot point hat you seem to have missed in the speedreading (spoilers for the books but not the game follow): the Enemy is the combined essence of the Valheru, as they became when Ashen-Shugar stopped them from using the Lifestone. They are now trapped inside the Lifestone due to Tomas's actions at the end of Darkness. Murmandamus is not a Moredhel, he's a Pantathian, a race created by one of the Valheru, and his goal was to bring the Valheru/Enemy back (incidentally killing everyone on Midkemia in the process; the Moredhel do not know this and would not approve if they did, they hate the Pantathians). Murmandamus is very dead, but the Moredhel are now claiming he's not. I think this covers the main points.
ReplyDeleteI liked the trilogy, and Magician the most, but I agree that they are merely serviceable. Some of the later books here and there are also good but in general I think his writing declines with each saga, and you're not missing much by stopping. I do like the game's writing a lot, more than the Feist's in fact (and I think the Krondor novelizations are among his worst).
I love the game and it's one of my favourites, but it took me a bit of time to get into it and past some of the oddities, I hope the same happens to you.
I appreciate the clarification. I didn't "miss" all of those things, but I also didn't fully get the significance of them. Take Murmandamus turning out to be a Pantathian. The book hadn't really established much about Pantathians, so the revelation came across as a bit weak to me. I mean, so what? They're both looking to restore Valheru power. (I'm sure there's a good answer to that, but it's the kind of thing I missed.) Anyway, thank you for verifying that the plot is closely linked to the game's. I'll try to re-read Sethanon as I play; it was the only one of the four that I skimmed in such a manner.
DeleteAnother interesting bit that Ziad didn't mention is that Kelewan wasn't the original home of the Tsurani. Their magicians knew that the Valheru were coming and that the Tsurani had no chance against them, so they got their people to flee through a rift to another world (Kelewan) and seal the rift behind them so the Valheru couldn't follow.
DeleteUnfortunately, politics and bureaucracy kept them from getting everyone to flee until the last minute and the Valheru were hot on their heels. This meant that all of the most powerful Tsurani magicians had to sacrifice their lives to keep the Valheru from coming through right behind them and close the rift, leaving only apprentices behind.
That lead to magicians being placed outside the law so long as they were acting in the Empire's interests, to prevent politics from causing an apocalypse next time.
>The game is organized like a novel, in distinct, named chapters--which I believe is an RPG "first."
ReplyDeleteThe game "Dragon Slayer: The Legend of Heroes" did this already 4 years earlier.
Since you bring it up, I'll just use the occasion to mention that an English translation of the PC-98 version of Dragon Slayer: The Legend of Heroes has recently been published (probably one of the last ones on RHDN ever?).
DeleteI understand so far the only version in English was the 'PC Engine' console one released for the TurboGrafx-CD in the US, but apparently this new PC one corrects some things.
It's a first for the blog.
DeleteI read the Riftwar trilogy/quartet many years ago and liked it, and tried it again more recently and could barely slog through it.
ReplyDeleteBoth times, the one thing that was always a mild irritant was Feist's blatant use of Tolkien's Elvish for some names: "Moredhel" is Sindarin for "Black Elves"; "Valheru" means "Power Lord"; even "Midkemia" is a combination of English and Elvish that, basically, means "Middle Earth" (or at least "Middle Land"). Fortunately, most of the names are either standard Earth fare or more ordinary fantasy names.
I remember when this game came out, I was very interested in it, but I didn't have a PC to play it on (I was, and remain, a staunch Mac user—though at least these days Crossover and Wine are good at playing Windows games).
The super-cheesy character portraits remind me of some other games of the era that used real people, mostly in brief recorded videos digitized into the games (especially Myst and Return to Zork). Those particular games didn't come out till later in 1993, but the introduction of the CD-ROM was clearly inviting games to go in that direction, so maybe it seemed like a better idea at the time.
I had a good laugh with the characters' photographs here. I never imagined Pug looks like a 70s disco pop star.
ReplyDelete"Gorath leapt forward, his chains writhing between his wrists like metallic vipers."
ReplyDeleteIs this really well written? Hum.
It depends on what you consider as being the golden standard for writing for PC RPGs in 1993.
DeleteI don’t think anybody can claim it is better written than the best written fantasy novels but, if you consider the overall writing, I would argue it is better than 99% of the games that have appeared on the blog so far.
Eh, disagree, if you aren't that good at writing and you don't put that much focus on it, it doesn't really matter that you aren't good at it. If you aren't that good at writing and you put a lot of focus on it, it doesn't really matter if you're better than someone who didn't really care about the story, because the game with non-existent story didn't try to do something he wasn't good at.
Delete"I wonder when the actual "betrayal" will happen. I'm going to be full of angst until it does."
ReplyDeleteWhen that betrayal finally happens, will you shout "Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal"?
The chapter titles may include a hint.
DeleteSpoiler 1: There will be a betrayal
DeleteSpoiler 2: It will happen at Krondor
Damn it, man, you can't just give the whole thing away like that! :P
DeleteDamn, Pedro, that is really brutal…Chet explicitly said, no spoilers!
DeleteExciting to see this well-known game pop up. I'll chime in with the chorus and agree that the spells' effects are not supposed to be unknown to you; those are available in some versions of the game's documentation.
ReplyDeleteOn my play-through a year or two ago I also tried to keep to a 'role-playing' ethos and speed the characters along when the game indicated a need for urgency; I don't think this prevented me from finishing the game, but it did lead to me experiencing less of the available world than I might have (as others have explained, above). Do as seems best to you, of course.
You usually seem fond of word puzzles, so I expect you'll mostly appreciate the 'Moredhel boxes.' Even if the game's stated justification for their existence is a tad silly, it certainly isn't as silly as the actors' costumes!
I liked the cheats too, but it’s maybe worth flagging that most of them are longer than three letters, though!
DeleteAntara did some further elaboration of the puzzle chests with something that involved beads, as I recall, but the riddle chests work better by staying simple IMO.
Digital antiquarian had an interesting (spoiler free, I think) article on BAK. Apparently, the game was planned for lower res but upgraded mid production, hence the tacky wigs and false beards.
DeleteI remember enjoying the game but also falling in the mentioned story-progress trap, which left my party underdeveloped 2/3 through the game.
IIRC, rations can be poisoned or spoiled. I also have vague memories of good rations going bad after a period of time, or maybe this was for rations left on the ground(?) Anyone with less cloudy memory?
Thanks for the tips. I don't know why I assumed that all of the boxes only used three letters--I guess just because the manual example only had 3, and the first chest I found only had 3.
DeleteI remember some of the latter 5 letter combos completely kicking my butt when I was a kid. I wonder if I'd do better now?
DeleteI remember loving just THINKING about puzzles so much, that I often refused "brute-forcing" answers, even if it would be easy. All that while English not being my native language and me not yet knowing it good enough. Still, the riddles were just THAT good. I would easly name Krondor one of the best western RPGs, if not the best, for the puzzles ALONE!
DeleteLargest puzzle I have memory of has 8 letters. I think the average size (letter-wise) of puzzles increase as chapters go on
DeleteThat makes sense. First they use short passwords, because they're easy to remember. Then you hack them. And then their security officers demand that they use ever longer codes so you can't hack them anymore.
DeleteIf the game had been longer, you'd start seeing uppercase, lowercase and artistically refined tumblers with special characters.
That should have been Didier, not Didiet. Where is the autocorrect when you need it?
DeleteNo matter how you spell your name, I enjoyed your comment!
DeleteI think it was Neal Hallford that explained the deal with the wigs and costumes on Twitter; the art team was going to rotoscope over the photographs Prince of Persia-style, but they decided they liked the photographed actors instead. (This also explains why the martial characters use crossbows instead of longbows; it would have been less work to paint over.)
ReplyDeleteOhh. Rotoscoping those photographs into expressive pixel art animations like in Prince of Persia would have been great. Too bad. I bounced off this game because of the use of real actors.
DeleteYeah, that was an epically bad decision. Maybe someone other than the developers should have looked at the images before deciding, "Hey, these look great."
DeleteI imagine they were more amazed by the technology than how good it looked. Not seeing the forest for the trees kind of thing.
DeleteThis discussion reminds me of Tin Toy, the stuff of nightmares that Pixar won its first Oscar with.
DeleteIt was also a time when the "Interactive Movie" craze started to take hold and digitized actors were seen as the peak of game technology.
Delete"Pirates of Realmspace" did something similar, digitizing pictures of local members of the Society for Creative Anachronism. Lower budget and better results, I would say.
ReplyDeleteNevertheless, after visiting the "City of Beauty" in Ultima 7.2, as well as after reading American gamers who compliment characters with huge mustaches, the portraits in Betrayal at Krondor don't bother me anymore.
That's true. I had forgotten about Spelljammer. That was just for a few NPCs, though: they weren't on the screen as often as the characters here.
DeleteYour point about U7P2 is well-taken. The artists were clearly capable of more attractive NPCs, so the decision must have been deliberate.
These are basically the early days for video games to use live acting, so BAK is hardly the only game that uses its own game designers as actors. Like, adventure game King's Quest 5 is infamous for using its game designers as voice actors, since most of them aren't very good at it.
DeleteThe only time it worked out was Max Payne - If you ran an America wide search, you would still not find anyone better than Sam Lake for that role. I almost cried when I saw Marky Mark hamming it up in the movie which was also terrible for other reasons.
DeleteMy heart skipped a beat when I saw the title of your post!
ReplyDeleteI'm probably way too excited right now to offer good advice. I tried reading through the entire post and comments, but I was too giddy too pay much attention.
I first played Betrayal around the early 2000's. Probably around the same time as the Lord of the Rings movies. I've replayed it two times since then. Loved it then, love it now. I've never read the books. I probably miss a lot of fanservice in the game... but you get the general gist of what is going on.
The game rewards exploration. Not every chapter gives you access to all the locations (I think only two or three chapters in the game give you access to the whole map), but I recommend exploring everything that a chapter allows you to explore.
I find Chapter 1 very fun, because you feel like you are being chased and you keep checking the map and you try to outwit the bad guys: if you also get that feel, I recommend going with it.
Roleplay the map. You don't have to pick the most obvious route. But roleplay a choice, make mistakes, change routes... it's really fun. If it helps, imagine you are Locklear for this chapter (the characters will change with each chapter), you have a mission, the odds are against you and you are making it up as you go.
In chapter 1 you can take whatever route to the chapter goal destination.
Enjoy it. Play with it. Have fun.
I hope I enjoy it as much as you clearly do.
DeleteBy the way, I wanted to give a quick heads-up that some Slovenian guy is working on a spiritual successor to 'BaK' titled 'Call of Saregnar', costumed NPCs and all...
DeleteI'm not gonna link here, search for yourselves.
That was oddly surly of you. I'll link it:
Deletehttps://www.callofsaregnar.com/
It looks pretty cool. I don't necessarily have a problem with the concept of costumed actors in these videos. I have a problem with these specific people.
And costumes.
DeleteVery interesting indeed. I wish him good luck with the project, will definitely look forward to it.
DeleteCall of Saregnar is #1 on my steam wishlist, but I've been waiting for so long on it, I confess I've started losing some hope
DeleteBAK was charming in a lowbrow fantasy fashion, and pretty advanced graphically for the time period. Like the other posters, I remember delaying chapters on purpose, and more dimly, a difficult ending, despite a late but welcome appearance by a book character.
ReplyDeleteBaK's roleplaying elements are interesting in the sense that, since (some of) these are pre-established characters, there wouldn't be a whole lot of opportunities to make your own decisions, or if you do, the game wouldn't acknowledge them in the story. When, in fact, most of the time if you go off the obvious path, the game will often use the characters to justify *your* choice. Like, for example, if you go off and explore in Chapter 1, despite it seeming like getting to Krondor quickly should be what the characters want to do, eventually you'll get some dialogue where the characters will justify your choice (to throw off assassins or something like that). So don't feel too constrained by what the story "wants" you to do.
ReplyDeleteThat's actually kind of brilliant. Imagine if all games acted that way. "The party of fuzzies, sensing that Lord British was actually a tyrant masquerading as a benevolent king, sailed a ship into his castle and blasted him with the cannons."
DeleteIf the titular event doesn't happen, will you feel... betrayed?
ReplyDeleteIf there's no betrayal in Betrayal at Krondor? I'll be as annoyed as if Skywalker didn't rise in The Rise of Skywalker.
DeleteSpoiler alert "there is a chapter named Betrayal", but it would be funny and a twist if the Betrayal is in an other chapter.
DeleteThere is a game coming that does exactly that, but even more audaciously.
DeleteYou mean, "This Is The Part Where He Kills You"?
DeleteBut, on the other hand, if there is no betrayal, is this not the Ultimate Betrayal...?
Delete@Radiant, if that's a question to me, then no. I'm talking about an RPG coming up on this blog in relatively near future. The most spoiler-free thing I can say (but still in rot13 just in case) is that gur tnzr'f gvgyr zvfyrnqf lbh gb guvax gung n pregnva dhrfg vf gur znva dhrfg, juvyr va snpg vg'f abg naq vf nygbtrgure n pba cynlrq ba lbhe cnegl. Fb gur tnzr'f gvgyr vf rffragvnyyl cneg bs gur pba.
Deletea pair of flight simulators, which might explain why there's no strafing.
ReplyDeleteThis makes perfect sense but is kind of funny out of context.
Ha. I didn't think of the other use of that word. I just looked it up, and apparently the way that we all use it in video games is specific TO video games. What would be more accurate, do you suppose? "Sidling"?
DeleteMaybe in this context "side-stepping" since you're not firing as you move anyway? On a cursory look around nobody seems to know how "strafe" in videogames came to mean "moving sideways while shooting forwards" and then "moving sideways without changing your look direction."
DeleteThe term appears to have been invented by ID Software for Wolfenstein 3D. The most plausible explanation I've seen is that they got it from news coverage of the Gulf War, which would have discussed strafing runs from aircraft - one of the highly publicized types (the AC-130) fires out the side and circles the target. That's mostly supposition, though. It would be possible to contact Carmack or Romero and ask, but there's a solid chance even they don't know where they got the term from at this point.
DeleteI have heartily enjoyed reading the Feist books a number of times. The Magician series is the best (although Silverthorn is a very weak link in that set), but the Empire trilogy comes very close. Pug's and Lady Mara's storylines are near and dear to my heart. I've read all the rest in the very long set - some a few times - and enjoyed them, but don't think I'll go through them all again. This has me jonesing for another read through the first two storylines, though! I do recall enjoying the game - especially the wordlocked chests (although some of the puzzles were difficult for me to solve and not a lot of wikis around for cheating back then). Other elements of the game were very different (IIRC) from the usual fare of that time. I recall getting into some dire straits with health and supplies, in part because of my tendency to explore absolutely every nook and cranny available to me before advancing the storyline. I wonder if I'd enjoy playing it again (except I have literally 70+ games in my queue, so perhaps not too soon). I hope you enjoy the playthrough!
ReplyDeleteI think I actually liked Silverthorn the best. I liked the low-key nature of the quest and how Arutha's group felt like a classic D&D party. The scene where Jimmy explores the Moredhel temple is one of the few times I can think of in fantasy with a strong thief POV.
DeleteThat's fair. And I didn't mean to imply it wasn't GOOD - it just didn't have the scope of the others so felt out of place in the series. I agree on the general lack of thief POV in fantasy. It's out there - I have a couple in my library I can think of - but not as common as warrior and wizard archetypes.
DeleteA pretty good example of a thief protagonist can bei found in the first Earthdawn trilogy (The Longing Ring, Mother Speaks, Poisoned Memories). The books were written before the ttrpg 's release and forced the writers to add the thief class to the Game (where the other classes are much more heroic).
DeleteWhen it comes to thief protagonists, we should mention Bilbo from The Hobbit, who is explicitly hired for his team as a "burglar" and is one of the main reasons D&D has a thief class in the first place. He's got some interesting sneaky scenes, such as the escape from Mirkwood.
DeleteThough as sneaky as anyone, no-one would ever say Bilbo was renowned for his backstabbing ability... Even if his character was the inspiration for the Thief class, Bilbo is hardly the archetype of that class.
DeleteEarly D&D thieves were not primarily backstabbing machines, and unlike the "sneak attacks" in later editions, the backstab ability was quite conditional (the enemy had to be completely unaware of you and you had to literally stab them in the back). Bilbo has more scruples than the archetypal D&D thief, but he does at one point consider that a burglar might sneak up on an enemy and stab them. Like the early D&D thief, one big problem with that for Bilbo would be that he'd be at his enemy's mercy after that initial attack.
DeleteI don't know about Bilbo, since he was a so-so thief to begin with. However, earlier fantasy had no shortage of thieves to pick from, from Conan to Grey Mouser.
DeleteA thief protagonist? Why, it's Nifft, from the homonym book series by Micheal Shea. (Yeah my fantasy id is from the main character of these books)
DeleteThis was my favorite RPG at the time I played it. Granted, I was a teenager, and this was only my second computer RPG, the first being... Ultima 8. And my favorite console RPG at the time would've been Final Fantasy 4; compared to that, this game's writing is Shakespeare.
ReplyDeleteStill, BaK does broadly resemble FF4 and the like in its focus being a complicated story built around a small cast of pre-made playable characters. I don't want to call it a "JRPG", but I think it compares favorably to contemporaries in that department.
You're right. It would not take a lot of changes, mostly aesthetic ones, to make this work as a typical mid to late '90s JRPG.
DeleteI remember enjoying this because up until the the only RPGs I had seen were of the early Wizardry / Bard's Tale / Might and Magic variery. A game with a much stronger focus on story felt like a gigantic leap forward.
ReplyDeleteThe thought of replaying it, though... I remember lots of walking between the story bits. Particularly if you felt obliged to do all the side-quests. But I do still like the music quite a bit.
Finally, my first RPG! I didn't manage to get very far when I first played it, because I knew very little English and did not understand anything about game mechanics. Locks on chests later have more letters, so checking all combinations is less easy.
ReplyDeleteInterestingly enough, I never though portraits in this game to be particularly bad. I guess to everyone his own - I absolutely hate low-poly 3D art style that's all the rage these days, for example, but these don't bother me at all.
I think you can get ingame description of a spell somewhere, because I remember reading them. But where...
I think the music of BaK is incredibly good, and that's the most impressive thing about the game for me. JRPGs have had great music since the 80s, but I feel like music in western RPGs wasn't really valued until the late 90s. It's rare to find a classic cRPG like this with wonderful and hummable tunes.
ReplyDeleteOh, I would say that the Ultimas had some nice although short tunes. Of course it depends on which computer you were playing them. Ultima 4 on the C64 had the music while the pc version didn't for example. Even before that they did some amazing tracks on the Apple II mockingboard sound card extension in 3.
DeleteOne of my favorites is the minor key variant of Lord British's leitmotif that is used in Ultima V. In addition, Might & Magic 3, 4, and 5 have very good music, as does the Quest For Glory series.
DeleteBut fair point, sound cards in PCs weren't common until 1990 or so, and weren't universal until a few years after. Quite a lot of game designers stuck with bleeps and bloops until then.
Agreed. I love especially the intro tune, but the combat music and the very chill town shop music are instantly recognizable to me.
DeleteThe Ultima series had good tunes, but they were used a bit loosely.
In BaK the music complements what's happening on the screen much more effectively.
Definitively better than what we have seen before! Of course, there have been CRPGs with good music, but music that complements the game so well was unheard of and new for me.
DeleteWe often played the CD outside of the game for our rpg meetings (you could put it into a normal cd player and it worked!). Everyone really enjoyed it.
Finally!
ReplyDeleteIs the 2010 reader who mentioned BaK as one of their favorite RPGs still around? I'm sure I mentioned it at the year-end review of 1992 but probably not before then.
Also, I echo the suggestion to explore, a lot. Certain side quests are only available in certain chapters, so triggering a chapter ending leads to potential loss of content, and opportunities for gaining experience. From a power-gamer perspective, if you accidentally trigger the chapter end (which is usually only doable in one specific way), consider reloading and doing everything but that trigger action until you're satisfied you've done as much as you can. But if you prefer to role-play it, that would be fine too. You don't have to grind everything to do well.
It's my favorite 1st person RPG of all time if that counts :D Edging it slightly over MM6 and a bit more over UW2
Delete:sigh: It was so very cool to see this pop up, but all this conversation about the storyline, the mechanics of the game and such have me remembering more and more how much I liked playing it. Now it's on my GOG wishlist. As if the other 70+ games in my library didn't need playing at all. Thanks, Chet & Co! (Extra point of irony: Betrayal at Antara is in a bin about 8 feet from me waiting, along with several dozen others games from the 90s and 00s, to be sold.)
ReplyDeleteIsn't the game published by Sierra?
ReplyDeleteEchoing the excitement shared above. Krondor has always been one of the most interesting games of the era to me -- the aesthetics take some getting used to and it can be a bit verbose -- but it nicely establishes a compelling cast of characters and a richly detailed world for them to interact with. Great stuff.
ReplyDeleteHey, I don't remember, but I may be the 2010 reader who said I was looking forward to Betrayal at Krondor...
ReplyDeleteIn any case, it's one of my favorite games from the times, despite all its flaws, the dated videos and a bit weird dungeon navigation. The narrative structure is great, and the non-linear exploration is really fun. The music is really cool indeed. By all means, explore as much as you can before ending each chapter. Not much to add that hasn't been already said above by others. I just hope you enjoy it for what it has to give, not only stumbling over the details that bug you.
I have a couple of comments from you about Krondor, but not until 2019. The first one to mention Krondor was a commenter named "rsaarelm." The first one to say he was particularly looking forward to it was Giauz, who we seem to have lost (last comment in 2020, although I heard from him by email as late as 2022).
DeleteI played through the game a few years ago, and I noticed some of the stuff around how the story is presented that you're seeing. Without spoiling anything, it will continue to feel like a novel that then had gameplay sections inserted. I also echo the advice others have given about wandering off the beaten path. My review notes point out that I was extremely glad I took the time for the character statistical growth that naturally occurs from doing more content.
ReplyDeleteVery happy you're finally getting to this game. This was the first ever game I ever purchased with my own pocket money as a 12 year old back when it was released. I had been a big fan of Feist's rift war books and definitely was hyped to buy this game. I remember it came on 8 floppy discs and I thought that enormous for its time!
ReplyDeleteLooking forward to this review series!
Thanks for another great recap of a well-loved game!
ReplyDeleteBetrayal shares a few attributes with "Prophecy of the Shadow," with both borrowing images from a hobo LARP, and, much more critically for character development and gameplay, neither had random encounters! Either travel widely, or save often.
I just want to remind people that CRT monitors, for which these games were calibrated, worked quite differently than LCD's, and that a lot of "cringeness" in the photos is the result of calibration towards the said CRT monitors, with their different balance of dark colours and certain blurring in native 320x200.
ReplyDeleteThat picture of Pug looks like Fabio had a transporter accident with Mr. Bean.
ReplyDelete