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"Woo-hoo! A submachine gun! Nothing will touch me now!" |
I'm not going to cut it off just yet, but it's impossible to imagine my finishing Pathways into Darkness given my experience with the game over the last few days. I spent about six hours with the game since last week's entry, but two-thirds of that time was covering the same stretches of corridor, over and over, unable to keep my character alive against the game's sadistic onslaught of foes.
When I last wrote, I had arrived on a level called "We Can See in the Dark . . . Can You?," where I was attacked by unkillable flying rats. The solution—thank you, anonymous; please choose a handle next time—was to turn off my flashlight.
So far, so good. I made my way counter-clockwise, killing nightmares (flying ghosts) and ghouls. I eventually reached a save rune. There was nothing remarkable about the chamber that held the red rune—certainly nothing to indicate that I would respawn here two dozen times.
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I really got to know this room. |
No matter what I did, I could not seem to make it to the next thing—stairs, another save circle, anything. I tried several different directions. The enemies weren't even objectively that hard, and I learned through experimentation that I could freeze them briefly with the Orange Crystal, then kill them in one shot. Nonetheless, they always managed to come at me from multiple directions (I think the respawn rate is higher on this level), and they always found a way to get me.
Eventually, I had memorized about half the level. I'd leave the latest respawn, head down a corridor, turn a corner, and say to myself, "Okay, there's a ghoul to your left. You need to dodge his attack, then rush forward and knife him before he can get off another one." And then he'd somehow still manage to hit me. It was infuriating. It probably didn't help that my experience last session had made me paranoid (for a good reason, it turns out) about ammunition.
Eventually, after finding a Bubbling Red Potion—the only thing I found on the level, I think—I found another save rune and, shortly after that, the ladder down. You can imagine how excited I was to take it.
The next level, "Happy Happy Carnage Carnage," didn't start so bad. There were no enemies when I arrived, and I soon found another dead German with ammo right next to another save rune. There was a ladder down almost immediately, but it took me to a level called "The Labyrinth" where I almost immediately got killed by a couple of electrified floating balls.
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I did not last long here. |
After that, though—wow. Every direction I went brought scores of ghouls, nightmares, and a new bullet-sponge enemy called "oozes." They're humanoid-shaped, with wounds in their chests. They reach into the wounds, pull out fistfuls of their own flesh, and throw them at you. Yuck. My ammo ran low, then ran out. There's no way to reliably stab nightmares and oozes.
Eventually, after much reloading, I found a room in the north part of the map with the bodies of five dead German soldiers, including the notorious Captain Muller, leader of the expedition. It was fun talking with them. They had all been slaughtered by monsters on the other side of three doors leading from the room. The doors, they said, opened by walking on a rune on the floor. Muller's soldiers all blame him for the disaster.
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What a dummkopf. |
Friedrich, Muller's second-in-command—and the only one of the party that Muller respected—said that Muller had sent some soldiers ahead to lower levels to "recover a large amount of gold and a strange wooden box" made of cedar. Muller hinted that they would need the gold for something. Their overall goal, however, was to find "a small glass vial of immense power" that supposedly contained the essence of an imprisoned demon. "Muller wanted to use it for the war, of course . . . Muller was always thinking about the war, and about the glory of the Fatherland."
(Elsewhere in the dialogue, Friedrich says that it was 1938 when their party came to Mexico. This is a bit odd because "The War" from Germany's perspective wouldn't start until 1939, though obviously the writing was on the wall, and Muller could be talking about The War that Germany Was Obviously Planning For. Less explainable is the discovery of MP-41 which, as its name suggests, did not exist until 1941. Or maybe the party first came in 1938 and it took them a few years to find the pyramid, during which time the war started and they were resupplied by Germany. That actually makes a lot of sense.)
Muller
wanted to know whether the war was still happening. "You must be losing, Yankee," he said to my reply, "or you would not lie like that." Probably because he recognized me as an American, he basically lied
throughout our conversation. The Cedar Box is "useless." As for Walter's
quest: "I was only appealing to his sense of greed. There is no gold." The biggest lie of all was that the party had only succumbed to its wounds after successfully killing the monsters on the other side of the door. "There is no danger."
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Bastard. |
More important than the dialogue, one of the dead Germans had an MP-41 submachine gun, and among them, they had about eight magazines for it. I had three or four that I'd already found. Suddenly, I felt invincible again.
That feeling lasted about 10 seconds. I walked over the rune that the Germans had warned me about. Three doors opened, disgorging a couple dozen oozes, ghouls, and nightmares. I hadn't believed Muller, of course, but I still didn't expect as many monsters as there were. I tried to run, but the outer doors had closed when I entered the room, trapping me here. I laid into them with my submachine gun, but they soon overwhelmed me.
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One of my unsuccessful attempts. |
And thus began the next phase of repeatedly dying in the same place. After several reloads, I tried to clear out as many enemies on the way to the slaughter room as possible, then return to the save rune, but even this is impossible because not only does pair of doors trap the player in the slaughter room, but also an earlier door closes trapping the player in this section of the dungeon.
I finally beat them by using the Bubbling Red Potion that I found on the previous level. This slows down the monsters. I found that if I walked across the rune, opening the doors, and immediately went to a corner in the outer room, and then drank the potion, the monsters would slowly emerge from the doors into the crossfire of my MP-41.
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The outer room after the slaughter. |
After all that, what I found on the other side of the door was a Red Cloak, a Brown Potion, and two Clear Blue Potions. A rune in the inner room opened the doors in the outer room.
The difficulty of the level didn't end after the horde. I still had to make my way back to the save rune (I think there's only one on the level) via a path I hadn't taken on the way here. Fortunately, I managed to make it on my first try. After saving, I took the ladder down to the next level.
I couldn't get anywhere with "The Labyrinth." It was a tight, winding maze in which dodging was impossible. Electrical spheres kept spawning behind me, and they spawned so frequently that I couldn't rest anywhere. Eventually, I gave up. I remembered that there was another way down from "Ground Floor," and I figured I'd check it out.
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I hope you appreciate what it costs me to get this close to take a screenshot. |
The first level in this second path was called "Feel the Power," and wasn't bad. There were a lot of groups of oozes—three or four at a time—but the hallways were wide and roomy, and there were a lot of corners to duck behind. In the middle of one of these hallways, I found Walter, dead next to one of the gold ingots he'd been sent to find. He pleaded with me not to take the gold. "It's all I have to look at." He said there were 11 more ingots on a lower level behind a gold door locked with a Gold Key that Muller had given him. After he died, some Spanish-speaking soldiers came by and took the key.
It was the next level, "A Plague of Demons," that broke me. The moment I arrived, I started getting attacked by invisible monsters. They didn't do a lot of damage, but they were constant. I had to spin my submachine gun around in circles to kill them. That just wasted ammo, though, and soon I was completely out. Since I can't even see the enemies attacking me on the level, I certainly can't knife them. None of my stuff seems to allow me to see invisibility. When I got to the point that I started hating not only the game but my computer for running it and all of you for reading my blog, I decided it was time to quit.
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A rock hits me out of nowhere. |
Some miscellaneous notes:
- Putting on the Red Cloak seems to make enemies move faster. Why would I want to do that?
- I've figured out that the Clear Blue Potions heal. I guess I could rely on them in The Labyrinth, where I can't rest.
- You know I like item descriptions. This game has a descriptive paragraph with everything that you find.
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I thought that the M-41 was an anachronism. According to one site, the Walther P4 wasn't available until 1975! |
- I've knifed and shot hundreds of creatures without advancing beyond "Expert." I suspect that's the highest level. The game's only claim to be an RPG rests on a skill system for which there are only three levels and the top one is relatively easy to achieve. Moreover, since you really don't have a "choice" of weapons—you have to use whatever you have ammo for at the time—every player is probably going to end up an "Expert" in everything. I should have just BRIEFed this.
- It was Monday evening when I wrapped up. I've stopped being paranoid about the time—running out would be a blessed mercy—and started being paranoid that by not exploring every little nook of every level, I might be missing some key item. I don't see how you possibly avoid running out of ammo if you insist on exploring every nook, though.
With RPGs, it's rare to encounter a title that I'm afraid I simply cannot win, no matter how hard I try. If tactics don't lead to victory, there's always grinding and luck. Neither is an option in most action games (at least, not the type of luck I'm talking about, where you roll a 20 on a backstab), and thus while I plan to take a couple of days before deciding whether to quit this one, it's likely that the game will make the decision for me.
Time so far: 13 hours
Always enjoyed the Bungie level names.
ReplyDeleteI even beat the marathon games somehow as a kid, but never got far into Pathways. I hope you finish it so I can find out what happens! I mean, I can Google it but this is more fun.
This whole post reminds me of a weird cultural quirk of the 90s, where games, particularly FPSes, were played "against" the game designers. That is, a "good" game had to be really difficult, and beating it meant you beat the people who made the game. I seem to recall game studios encouraged that idea, too. It was definitely part of the whole ad campaign around Daikatana at the end of that decade.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, the difficulty, and particularly the taunting level names, all suggest to me that Bungie bought into that idea, too.
I think there's still a prevailing sentiment that one has to "beat" a game. I've never been interested in a game where beating is taking place on either side - only on critters within! I want a collaborative (with the designers) adventure where we work to reveal stories both small and grand. It's also why I haven't really been an arcade-game type player since my relative youth. :)
DeleteI don't think the folks at Bungie had that attitude. The game is very difficult, but they thought that was a service to the player. e.g. See the Marathon 2 level name 'The Hard Stuff Rules…'. I think they thought that playing extremely challenging games (and winning) was a profound source of achievement.
DeleteI don't necessarily think the game is unfair for what it's trying to accomplish. It just isn't what I normally like about games.
DeleteJason Jones, founder of Bungie and designer of Marathon, Halo, Myth, etc said that Pathways into Darkness was a lesson in how not to balance a single-player game. I love the idea of the game, especially the way the story is delivered through the fragmentary recollections of dead soldiers, but it's so hard I've never been able to get very far. It's not so much the difficulty as the hostility - it just feels punishing, rather than challenging.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure how valid Jones opinion is on it. Death of the author aside, developers tend to be many years down the line when they say things like that, and time changes them from someone who designed the game into someone else. Jones, in particular, tends to follow design trends, with the exception of this game and Halo. The man who designed this game is not the same man who greenlit Destiny and the new Marathon. But, in his defense, this is unique, and I don't think anyone could replicate what makes this work for myself and many others.
DeleteAgreed. Game devs are very unreliable narrators, and game devs with hindsight, the worst of the junkies for approval. Jane Jensen does the same with the moustache puzzle (a puzzle whose infamy is absolutely overblown, unfair and even ignorant).
DeleteThere is a very general walkthrough on Bungie's website: https://pid.bungie.org/IMGstrategytacticsNov93.html, which would give you a sense how far you are and whether it is worth trying to go on. It has also a solution to the invisbible monsters, there should be an item nearby in the level that helps seeing them
ReplyDeleteBungie.org is in fact a fansite by one Hamish Sinclair, it is not an official site of Bungie Software the game company. They have indicated over the (many) years that bungie.org has been around that they don't have any particular problem with it, however.
DeleteI assume the level name "Happy Happy Carnage Carnage" is a Ren & Stimpy reference? would be about the right time for it.
ReplyDeleteThat was my thought, too.
Delete100% definitely. It isn't the first in their games, either, marathon levels reference Ren & Stimpy as well as Beavis & Butthead and others. The game was made by a bunch of twentysomethings in the 90's after all.
Delete...It certainly *is* the first, as Marathon didn't come out till late the following year.
DeleteWow, I'm impressed you have made it so far. This is a very challenging game — and even more so if you don't play many action games. You are indeed supposed to find it hard, though the bits that seem almost impossible (e.g. rats, invisible monsters) usually mean that there is a special solution. If you end up with a choice between coming to hate the game or ending your run and rating/briefing it, then definitely do the latter. I think you are about half-way through and have got already got a good idea of what it is like: a chilling horror experience created through the darkness, the lack of ammo, the haunting conversations with the dead, and the power of the monsters compared to you.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad you made it to the room with all the dead German soldiers and the machine pistol. Finally catching up with them and dealing with what did them in is a memorable experience and a sense of closure on the first half of the game, so could be a good place to declare victory.
That said, I think the level with the invisible enemies also has an item that turns the tide and starts to give you the upper hand, if you can only work out what to do with it (it is pretty opaque, but we can give you a clue). So things aren't quite as grim as they may seem.
Do keep the cloak. It doesn't sound very useful, but in some very unusual circumstance it will be.
Re the genre of this game, I think it is a bit more of an RPG than you are suggesting. It may be that the weapon skills are the only connection to your official definition of an RPG for the blog, but there are other things too. I think the Ultima-style conversations are very RPG-ish. They certainly aren't FPS-ish. But I suppose adventure games could also use this system. The levels are somewhat more like RPG levels than they are like levels in any other genre — especially the fact that you can backtrack and there are multiple connections between them. e.g. they are quite a lot like Ultima Underworld. The puzzles (like the rats) also aren't FPS-like at all. And the slowness of the walking and combat compared to most FPS games makes it seem a bit in the direction of a later Might & Magic. I wouldn't have said it was an RPG, but I think there is a decent case that it is a roughly 50-50 FPS-RPG hybrid. Of course none of this means you need to finish it, but I do think it prompts some interesting questions about what makes an RPG, including things that aren't unique to RPGs, but which are much more typical in them than in other games.
ReplyDeleteFPS-adventure hybrid, perhaps. At least in the context of video games, "RPG" implies the existence of numbers and stats (otherwise Zork would be an RPG). Pathways into Darkness doesn't really have much of either.
DeleteI said it in other post - the similarities come from how the rpg is modelled in a computer game, which shares many of the same elements as the classic arcade maze game which is also the precedent of the fps.
DeleteI've said elsewhere I owned this but never made it far because I was really bad at FPSes then. I started watching walkthroughs as this game came up on the list, and the impression I've gotten from watching is gameplay is 90% positioning and timing based on enemy - it's all about the combat waltz, but a realtime, 3-D one. Attack, dodge, attack, dodge. Know which ones need which weapon. Later on there's some judicious use of crystals and it does look like there's a point, maybe two thirds of the way in where it becomes "mow them down while still judiciously dodging." To me the small bits of extra health aren't much more than picking up some armor in Doom, and the weapons skills are just a bit of damage power up.
DeleteMy two takeaways from the waltkthroughs were, 1) yeah, I'd never make it through this, and 2) man, how's Chet going to react to that?
Calling this one an "extended BRIEF" and moving on seems totally sensible to me.
"The levels are somewhat more like RPG levels than they are like levels in any other genre — especially the fact that you can backtrack and there are multiple connections between them. e.g. they are quite a lot like Ultima Underworld."
DeleteThere should be more FPS games with a level structure like Ultima Underworld! Plus a few NPCs, a bit of story, and an automap that you can annotate.
Sorry to hear you're not having such a good time at the moment, since it does feel like, you're "feeling the power" of the other creatures. I suppose what this game does well and what you enjoy out of a RPG are not entirely compatible. The more actionized approach to dungeon crawling was never going to be your favorite since your rating system prioritizes things that a good one never even needs to acknowledge, let alone do well.
ReplyDeleteI will note that you're just before the point where the balance starts to get skewed in your favor. Unfortunately, I don't know if you can make it to that point. If you feel like doing it, it's in Plague of Demons, that's where you should focus your efforts. You've already gotten a hint about what it is.
Congrats on clearing the Carnage room, that's genuinely a tough spot in the game.
ReplyDeleteAs for the Red Cloak, and other mysterious items in general, there're a few useless items but nearly everything in the game has a use. There's no actual carrying capacity limit despite everything having an associated weight (there's evidence indicating there was going to be a puzzle relating to this at one point that got cut), so it's worth holding onto things just in case.
I agree the game will turn around somewhat if you can manage to get a little further in A Plague of Demons, though it may not be as big a change as some people here are suggesting if you find the combat tough at the best of times. I've been keeping regular save backups of my own playthrough, so if there's a way to send those in I can offer those if a stronger position (more ammo, pretty much) would make or break you reaching the potential turning point.
"...I started hating not only the game but my computer for running it and all of you for reading my blog."
ReplyDeleteI take this as your final verdict on the entire FPS genre ;)
This post is my encouragement not to give up, Chet, you've actually cleared a pretty significant hump if you can strategize your way past the Carnage Room. That's a notable, and memorable, difficulty wall.
ReplyDeleteFor questions:
On the Red Cloak:
Lbh arire xabj, lbh zvtug svaq n ernfba gb jnag gb fcrrq hc vafgrnq bs fybj qbja gvzr ng fbzr cbvag.
On A Plague of Demons:
Lbh pna'g frr gurz nf fbba nf lbh neevir, ohg irel pybfr gb gur obggbz bs gur ynqqre vf jung lbh arrq gb svk gung.
On the Cedar Box:
Lbh'yy svaq vg Erny Fbba, naq Zhyyre jnf nofbyhgryl ylvat, orpnhfr vg vf bar bs gur zbfg vzcbegnag gernfherf va gur tnzr.
On the game difficulty:
Gurer vf fbzrguvat ba N Cynthr bs Qrzbaf juvpu, jura lbh svaq vg, orpbzrf n znwbe cbjre zhygvcyvre sbe lbhe punenpgre naq jvyy ybjre gur tnzr qvssvphygl sebz urer ba. Gur Pneantr Ebbz vf fbeg bs gur 'ynfg obff' bs gur rneyl tnzr, orsber lbhe gerng.
Also, here's something from the game developers themselves in the game's official hint book on how to handle the Labyrinth. Haven't rot13'd because I don't believe this counts as a spoiler:
Delete"When a Sphere attacks you from behind, turn halfway towards the Sphere, then use the "look" function (shift + turn key) to instantaneously turn the rest of the way ("looking" left 90 degrees is a lot faster than turning left 90 degrees). "
But also, you are currently going the correct way, you don't need to go through the labyrinth yet.
The oozes in this game remind me of something that I can't quite place. It's both the humanoid shape and the way they move, I know I've seen something a lot like it but I can't place it. Possibly some kind of old claymation video or vaguely blobby painted animation; maybe an old Sesame Street skit, or something like Gumby or Mr. Bill; but maybe something a little more psychedelic like some Beatles video. It's one of those things that's on the tip of my tongue but I just can't place it. Anybody know what it might be?
ReplyDelete¿Armus from "Star Trek: The Next Generation"?
Deletehttps://memory-alpha.fandom.com/es/wiki/Armus
Quirkz, I thought the same thing the first time I saw them. And I don't think it's Armus. It's something more comical or whimsical than that.
DeleteThey remind me a bit of Alf, the comedy alien from the dark and distant 1980s.
Delete"I don't see how you possibly avoid running out of ammo if you insist on exploring every nook, though."
ReplyDeleteThis sounds like a certain type of adventure games where you explore & try and in the process die a lot or run into dead ends, all in preparation of the 'final run' (of an area or the whole game) where you implement all the knowledge gained.
A bit similar to how you describe "covering the same stretches of corridor, over and over" and trying different things until you knew the monster sequence by heart and managed to combine your movement and weapon use in an optimized way, which to me seems typical for FPS or arcade games in general.
Except, of course, the latter demands continuous real-time reflexes on top of memorizing (or writing down) the sequence... which draws on an additional different set of skills and thus makes it much harder for most of us.
Yes, "you have to explore around in order to find the right path to implement in your playthrough" and "you have to repeat a path over and over to train your reflexes until you git gud enough to make it through" have an unholy synergy--training yourself to get through a difficult corridor, only to discover that the thing you need is somewhere else, is brutal.
DeleteMy suggestion would be to power through A Plague Of Demons. It's an important part of the game for both lore and gameplay.
ReplyDeleteDon't want you to be miserable playing it though. To be honest I'm kind of surprised it qualifies for the blog. As much as I like it it is pretty light on RPG aspects.
This seems like the kind of game I'd bang my head against when I was a teenager!
ReplyDeletePiD is brutally hard for those of us who don't have much skills for FPS. I agree it is effectively not an RPG, too (the skill system and max hit points stuff isn't really enough). However, for those who wish to play, there's some at-the-time advice I remember seeing somewhere (I think comp.sys.mac.games) that applies for the first half or so: "Ehaavat bhg bs nzzb? Lbh'er abg cynlvat gur fbeg bs tnzr lbh guvax lbh'er cynlvat.")
ReplyDeleteThat is so unhelpful that . . . I can't even think . . .
DeleteThat is so unhelpful that whoever originally said it ought to spend every waking moment trying to scrub the Internet of any trace of it, because the odds that I eventually have enough money to hire goons to do whatever I tell them to do is not 0.
Delete