Wednesday, March 13, 2024

NetHack [3.1]: Wish List

 
I am not going back to these mines again.
      
To start this session, I wasted a bunch of time going all the way back to the bottom level of the Gnomish Mines, only to fail to find a luckstone or whatever it was I was supposed to find there, despite searching every wall and futilely using my pick-axe at every place that looked like it might have a secret area. I guess it wasn't a complete waste, as I stopped at the temple on my way through the town, donated $6,000 to the priest, and got some intrinsic protection. I also killed and ate a wraith on the way back, bringing me to Level 15.
   
How, precisely?
      
When I reached Level 20, I discovered that at some point, somehow, about 10 of my items had become cursed, including my Ring of Regeneration, my Speed Boots, my Bell of Opening, my credit card, and my blindfold. I don't know how or where that happened. I spent about an hour sorting it out, first by casting "Remove Curse" until it was useless. Fortunately, I found a fountain, an altar, and a treasure zoo on the level. The altar was aligned lawful, but I used a tip from a commenter to sacrifice corpses on it until it changed to chaotic. I then used the fountain to turn all my potions into potions of water, had the altar bless them, and dipped the remaining cursed items into the potions. It took a while and I lost some decent potions. 
          
Kick his ass, Erevan!
      
Around this time, I decided to narrate a couple of full levels in detail, so here goes:
 
I begin in the southwest corner of Level 21. The room is dark, and I light it up with a lamp. There's nothing in it. I put on my blindfold and see three initial entities on the level: a wraith (yay!), a troll, and a human priest of Solonor Thelandira. I head for the wraith first. I ate one fairly recently, while returning from the Gnomish Mines, and it brought me to Level 15. If I play my cards right, I can get another level out of this one. I don't want him to touch me, so I grab his attention and then lead him back to the main room, where I'll have a few rounds to hit him with daggers or wands. It takes three daggers and two blasts from the Wand of Lightning, but I kill him. Fortunately, he leaves a corpse (along with a Wand of Digging). I eat it and jump to Level 16.
      
Tossing stuff at a wraith before he can reach me.
     
In the room the wraith came from, I find the steps down. There's a statue of an ogre king that comes to life when I approach, but he's friendly, so I don't attack. My "Auto Searching" senses identify a trap before I step on it. A message appears: "You hear someone counting money." I think this means that there's a hidden vault somewhere on the level, but I can't remember what vaults mean or if it's a good idea to loot them. 

I head west, and the troll moves to intercept me as I approach. I'm not really scared of him, so I just fight him in melee combat. He dies in a few hits, as does a rope golem that spontaneously generated behind me during the fight. I have to quickly eat the troll to prevent him from regenerating; I'm sure there are other ways, but I don't remember what they are. I kick open the door to the next room--I always kick doors, as it exercises strength and dexterity. Some of them are sometimes trapped, but they never do much damage.
      
Or go through the back door, it turns out. Where do you get "the right tune"?
      
On the far west side of the level, I find a room with a priest of Solomor Thelandira, a lawful deity. The altar is thus aligned lawful. I know there was some confusion about whether an altar could be converted if a priest was in the room, but I don't really need to convert it since there's another one just one level above me, so I leave it alone. A few trivial enemies spawn in the rest of the rooms. I clear them out and head down the stairs.
   
On Level 22, my blindfold shows me a throne room with a black dragon right in the middle of a bunch of orcs. Black dragons are among the most dangerous creatures in the game, with "Disintegration" breath, but eating their corpses gives you resistance to the same. I know from experience that dragons don't breathe if you're in melee range, so I kick open the door and step out of his line of fire. The next time my Teleportitis activates, I teleport to the square right next to him and engage him in melee combat. He dies in about 12 hits. I eat his corpse and gain the resistance that I'm looking for. It was a gamble, but it paid off. 
      
Preparing to jump right next to the dragon.
     
While I'm eating the dragon, by the way, the orcs and other enemies, including a fire giant, are beating away at me. They literally do no damage, or so little that my regeneration heals me in the next round. I've never felt so invulnerable playing a game of NetHack. I'm sure it's all going to come crashing down at some point. I'll make some arrogant mistake and get killed. But for now--and especially after this session--it's hard to see what's going to kill me.
   
I head to the throne room and start sitting in the throne. I get a couple of messages that I feel out of place, and I get confused for a few turns. But on my fifth or sixth try--I swear to Erevan Ilesere--I get the ability to wish for another object. Already having magic resistance from my scale mail, I decided to use this one on "Reflection." It takes a while because I thought there was an object called a Cloak of Reflection, but I guess it doesn't exist in this version. The game keeps telling me it's not a valid object (fortunately, that doesn't cancel the wish). I think Amulets and Shields of Reflection are both valid, and I spend some time debating which I'd rather have. I don't think there are Shields of Anything Else whereas there are several other potentially-useful amulet types, so I try the shield and get it.
        
I'm glad I kept trying.
      
I find a magic marker amid all the debris, which will be useful later for writing scrolls. My dexterity keeps fluctuating from 17 to 16, sometimes getting exercised from the door-kicking, sometimes getting "abused" from being over-satiated a lot of the time.
   
On Level 23, there's another killer bee hive in the northeast, which gives me another load of royal honey for both nutrition and increasing strength. 
        
I love it when my blindfold shows me this.
        
Level 25 offers a store, but without a single useful object except for (ironically) an Amulet of Reflection. I sell some gems there. There are four mimics in the place, which I think is a record. An altar room in the northwest has another chaotic altar and a friendly "Elvenking." He sounds important, but I can't find anything to do with him.
   
Level 26 has a type of room I've never seen before: a swamp in which every other square is water. I navigate this room very carefully, making sure not to blunder into the water squares while fighting various eels that live there. 
       
Threading my way through the swamp.
       
Level 27 starts out very weird. It begins in a long, rectangular room from north to south. There are a bunch of friendly monsters in the room, including gremlins, which keep falling into pools of water and multiplying, making it hard to get around. A titan attacks me with a Wand of Cold when I arrive, but I kill him in short order. My blindfold alerts me to other monsters on the level, including an angel, a couatl, a vampire lord, and Medusa. Most of them are all the way to the far east.
   
I find a secret door in the upper-left, but it just opens onto a pool of water, so I can't go that way. The walls are impervious to my pick-axe and I cannot teleport. Boulders and three pools of water prevent me from searching some of the walls in the southeast. I destroy one of the boulders with my pick-axe and shove the other into the northernmost pool, turning it into dry ground. Stepping on it, I find a secret door to the southeast. It lets me out, but only to confront me with a large lake of water blocking me from getting to the other "islands" on the level. I clearly need some sort of levitation. I don't think jumping is an option. Even if it was, it would require me to drop and leave behind more stuff than I feel comfortable dropping. Oh, and I find an Amulet of Magical Breathing under the titan's corpse, but even if it will let me walk through the water, I don't want to ruin all my stuff again.
     
Trying to figure out what to do here.
        
Disgruntled, I begin making my way back up the levels, looking for anything that will help. A giant spawns and attacks me with a Wand of Fire, which I take off his corpse after I kill him. I believe Wands of Fire can dry up pools of water, but it only has four charges. I also think Wands of Ice can freeze pools, and I come across one I left behind on Level 18, but it's dead. I break a statue and get a spellbook with "Haste," but that doesn't help. Finally, back on Level 8, I found a Potion of Levitation in a store. That would seem to be what I need, but it also means I can't get back unless I find some other means on the other side of Medusa.
    
I hesitate to tell you this next part because I don't think you're going to believe me. I promise I'm telling the truth and I've been adhering to all the NetHack rules--no scumming, no permadeath. I've backed up my character a couple of times, but I haven't reloaded. I mean, if I was going to narrate a bunch of lies, surely I'd make up something more believable than sitting in the throne on the way back down through Level 22 and getting yet another wish, right?
      
This is what I need, but is it enough?
      
But that's what happens. And now I'm in a conundrum. I can wish for a Ring of Levitation and be done with the levitation question or get another ultra-cool item for my ascension kit. Or maybe a blessed Scroll of Genocide for liches, or a special helm or pair of gloves. Ultimately, I decide to go for the Ring of Levitation, though. I don't know how many more of these situations I'm going to encounter. The throne vanishes after the wish, keeping me from trying a third time.
   
Back on the medusa level, I drink the potion before putting on the ring, and I'm glad I got the ring, as the potion only lasts a dozen or so rounds. I see a mind flayer approaching on the level. The game says several times that it "locks on to my telepathy." I don't know what that means, but it seems like a good creature not to get close to, so I destroy it with missile weapons and wands. Afterwards, I eat its corpse and get +1 intelligence. The angel also attacks me and actually manages to damage me for the first time this session, to the tune of about 20 hit points, before I kill him.
   
This whole time, I'm keeping an eye on Medusa by occasionally putting on my blindfold. Eventually, I make my way over to her room--a mirror of the entry room--on the far side of the level. A secret door opens as I approach and the vampire lord emerges. I destroy him and a lich with missile weapons. 
  
There's a wand underneath a boulder, and at first I imagine I've found yet another couple of wishes, but it turns out to be a Wand of Speed Monster.
     
Keeping an eye on Medusa and her minions.
     
Medusa's building turns out to have multiple rings of rooms, and I slowly make my way to her, killing the other enemies in the hall. I make sure to have on my blindfold when I open the final door to her chamber, which also contains a baby green dragon. No sooner do I have the door open than the game says, "You destroy Medusa!" When I take off my blindfold, she's been turned into a statue. I can only imagine that she tried her gaze attack on me, and it hit my Shield of Reflection.
   
Lest you think this session is too blessed, I realize at this point that I accidentally left my pick-axe outside the shop where I got the Potion of Levitation. (Shopkeepers make you drop them outside so you can't tunnel out of the shop without paying.) So I either have to go all the way back or move forward, hoping I find one later. I can already picture the entry in which I relate how I died in some preventable way because I didn't have a pick-axe. I sigh and go back for it.
      
@#$#% shopkeeper.
      
Half an hour later, I return to the Medusa level and gleefully shatter all her statutes. One of them has a spellbook of "Remove Curse." While trying to read it to learn the spell better, for some reason all of my gold disappears.
     
Medusa's full level.
     
I move down from the Medusa Level. Level 28 is a maze with a variety of monsters but nothing interesting. I find two Wands of Digging on the level, and since I already have two in my inventory, I just use them to blast open walls to make it easier to get around the level.
  
Level 29 is the famous castle level. As with the Medusa level, Teleportitis doesn't work. The castle is surrounded by a moat, a closed drawbridge marking the entrance. Something I heard in the game--a hint from the Oracle or maybe from a priest--indicates that I need to play music to lower the drawbridge. Having no way to do that, I put on the Ring of Levitation and circle around to the back door. The ring helps me avoid a number of trap doors in the hallway. There are several dragons guarding treasure chambers. I kill them and get the "Resist Shock" intrinsic by eating the corpse of a blue one.
     
I think that's what this means, anyway.
     
The hallway leads to a main chamber absolutely full of monsters: soldiers, elementals, nagas, and so on. The only thing that really scares me are the rust monsters, but if I just back up a few steps, they can't get to me without falling down to the next level and I can toss weapons and spells at them.
    
It's nice when they kill each other.
      
When it's all done, I spend a lot of time writing Scrolls of Identify with my marker, blessing them with my potions, and identifying stacks of items strewn all over the level. The good things I find are: a pair of Gloves of Dexterity, 6 tallow candles, a Scroll of Genocide, a Scroll of Enchant Weapon, and a Potion of Gain Ability. There are also a million C-rations and K-rations, which I stuff in a chest in case I come through this way again. You'll be happy to know that the throne disappeared the first time I tried to sit on it. 
   
There is, of course, a Wand of Wishing in a corner chamber. I identify it with a stack of other stuff; it has 2 charges. I think if I use the first on a Scroll of Recharging, I might be able to get as many as three wishes out of it. 
     
It's about time we got some wishes around here.
       
There are no stairs heading down, so I think I'll have to drop through one of the trap doors. Before I do, let me get your opinions on a) what to wish for (or whether to avoid wishing for anything just yet), b) what to genocide, and c) whether I need more levels. This is what I have, along with some notes:
    
  • Amulet of Magical Breathing. I'm sure it has some uses beyond breathing underwater. Perhaps it's necessary for some of the levels coming up, or from protecting against some monsters. I feel like the slot could be better spent on a different amulet, though; I just don't know what.
  • Blessed +6 long sword. I would have liked to find an artifact weapon, but this is doing just fine.
  • Speed Boots +0. I remember this being vital to my ascension kits in previous NetHacks.
  • Shield of Reflection +2. Ditto.
  • Gray Dragon Scale Mail +2. Ditto again.
  • Gauntlets of Dexterity +0. Could be persuaded to part with them if there are better gauntlets or gloves.
  • Orcish Helm +2. I'm sure there must be some artifact helms that could replace this.
  • Elven Cloak +4. Pretty happy with this.
  • A variety of food items, not worth enumerating.
  • Blessed Scroll of Identify
  • 2 Scrolls of Blank Paper (I keep dipping scrolls I don't want into fountains).
  • Scroll of Genocide
  • Scroll of Punishment. Found recently; waiting to dip; afraid I'll accidentally hit the wrong number and read it. I should just drop it.
  • Potion of Holy Water
  • Ring of Fire Resistance. I have fire resistance intrinsically. I don't remember if items stack.
  • Ring of Regeneration. My native regeneration is so high, I'm not sure why I'm still carrying this.
  • Ring of Protection +2. This could be sacrificed for something more important.
  • Ring of Levitation. Probably vital.
  • Two Wands of Digging, 9 charges total.
  • Wand of Death, 2 charges.
  • Wand of Wishing, 2 charges.
  • Wand of Teleportation, 6 charges.
  • Wand of Magic Missile. I have no idea why.
  • 7 Tallow Candles and 1 Wax Candle. I don't know the difference.
  • Magic Marker with 8 charges left.
  • Bell of Opening.
  • Palantir of Westernesse.
  • Pick-Axe.
  • Blessed +0 Unicorn Horn.
  • Blindfold.
  • Magic Lamp.
  • Credit Card (for unlocking).
    
I'll be happy to take advice. Next time, I'll see you in Hell!
   
Time so far: 25 hours

76 comments:

  1. Medusa's the furthest I've ever gotten in this, and the way I died killed most of my motivation to keep trying: as it turns out, blindfolds don't help much if you forget to put them on

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  2. Never played Nethack, but that bell of opening, does that work on the drawbridge? Actually seems too perfect for you not having tried it, but still curious.

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    Replies
    1. Might be spoilery...

      Vg qbrf abg. Lbh arrq vg fbzrjurer ryfr. Bcravat gur qenjoevqtr vf npghnyyl zber vaibyirq.

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    2. Eddie i am afraid you are wrong.

      Gur oryy nofbyhgryl jbexf ba gur oevqtr. Lbh pna nyfb hfr n jnaq be bcravat, be whfg qrfgeblvat gur oevqtr bhgevtug jvgu n jnaq bs fgevxvat/sbepr obyg.

      Gur jrveq zhfvpny zvavtnzr vf uneqyl gur bayl jnl gb bcra gur oevqtr.

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    3. Oh, I meant to mention that I had found a bugle in the castle--a bunch of them, really--and I tried playing it to open the drawbridge. It wanted me to have a specific series of notes, and I never got that. Seems silly when you can just go in the back way anyway. Because of the previous level, I can't see making it here without some form of levitation.

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  3. How *do* you eat a wraith? Do you imagine plucking some "core" out like a pez, or do you consume the whole thing bite by bite? As it's presumably ethereal maybe you can just "breath it in"?

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    1. Wraith corpses have 0 weight and provide 0 Nutrition, so clearly there are something pretty incorporeal.

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    2. I wonder how I'm eating most of the corpses in the game, like a dragon or fire giant. You'd think that would take the better part of a year.

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    3. are you supposed to be eating the entire dragon? or is this some kind of Oregon Trail situation where most of it goes to waste

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    4. I guess we'll find out how to eat dragon sometime in the next few episodes of 'Delicious in Dungeon'.

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  4. > A message appears: "You hear someone counting money." I think this means that there's a hidden vault somewhere on the level, but I can't remember what vaults mean or if it's a good idea to loot them.

    That's indeed a vault. Now for some small spoilers:

    Inhygf bayl tvir n ohapu bs tbyq, abg gbb rkpvgvat ng guvf cbvag - Ohg fgnevat ng QY 10 Inhygf unir n 33% punapr bs na rkgen fhecevfr, fb gurl ner jbegu purpxvat bhg.

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    1. And there are no negative consequences to doing this? Alignment problems?

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    2. Not at all, even lawful characters can grab the gold there without consecuences.

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    3. "Lawful" does not automatically mean "law-abiding". It has always been a bit of a misnomer.

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    4. I disagree. Lawful does mean law-abiding, and it should be ajudicated as such by GMs. It does NOT inherently imply good, benevolent, or fair. Many laws benefit primarily the lawmaker and those in power. Laws were initially established to maintain order, not fairness. Modern society continues to struggle with that balance between order and fairness, but we seem to believe that it is something new...when in fact it is a struggle as old as humanity.

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    5. In the alignment sense, "Lawful" has always (all the way back to the days of Michael Moorcock, who Gygax originally ripped the alignment system off of) meant "Ordered", not "Follows the written law".

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    6. It was meant in original D&D meant more to mean 'do you support/fight on the side of law or the side of chaos', rather then the personal ethos of the character. However, this didn't last very long as Gygax was really bad at explaining things.

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    7. Yup, going back I believe to Chainmail, Law and Chaos were basically just the different sides in the battles; all the moral philosophy came later (and I think was as much if not more indebted to Poul Anderson’s Three Hearts and Three Lions as Moorcock).

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    8. I've also heard though that Gygax imagined alignments as being some kind of parallel construct to religion - separate from theological positions with regard to deities, but being some sort of cultural touchstone representing the shared values and traditions of a (sub-)culture. To the point that early D&D even had a concept of alignment-based languages meant to parallel the use of latin, coptic, hebrew and arabic in churches even where those aren't the local tongue.

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    9. And, bringing it back, in NetHack the alignments are far closer to sides in the battles than anything else. There are some minorish code of conduct things that give you alignment penalties--Lawful characters get a penalty for using poisoned weapons or for stealing directly from shops (which is suicidal anyway), non-chaotic characters have pretty big penalties for killing peaceful humans--but by far the biggest effect of alignment is on which monsters are sometimes peaceful, and which artifacts get along with you. IMO.

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    10. Ignoring Gygax and early DnD, since some developers didn't know much about that and interpreting Gygax is getting to be akin to interpreting the Bible as far as internet discussions do, lawful can absolutely mean either depending on the game. I can't actually think of a game where lawful = good off-hand, but I know I've seen them, heck, Chet might have even played one. It's just easier for law versus chaos, since developers are notoriously bad about good versus evil.

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    11. Gygax and Moorcock aside, Nethack's concept of Law and Chaos is clearly orthogonal to Good and Evil. In Gehennom, there are Lawful Devils and Chaotic Demons and they are both the epitome of EVIL. The Devils are also amusingly corrupt, the Demons unfortunately are not. You are rewarded for killing both as a character, no matter your alignment.

      As for the vaults, I always imagine they contain the collected taxes from the denizens of the Dungeons of Doom. The "government" is clearly corrupt, and taking their money is fine for both Lawful and Chaotic characters.

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    12. There is one way that alignment affects the vaults:

      Lbh pna gnxr gur zbarl. Lbh pna xvyy gur thl jub bjaf gur zbarl. Ohg vs lbh'er ynjshy, lbh pna'g yvr naq fnl gung lbh'er gung thl, ng gur pbfg bs n fznyy nyvtazrag cranygl gung lbh pna trg onpx ol xvyyvat whfg nobhg nal zbafgre.

      Zber fvtavsvpnagyl, ynjshy naq arhgeny punenpgref qb trg zheqre cranygvrf vs lbh svtug lbhe jnl gur inhyg thneq, gubhtu gung'f hfhnyyl abg gur orfg fgengrtl.

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    13. Oh, and interesting fact I just got from the wiki: The Yendorian Army (soldiers, the Minetown Watch, and the inhyg thneqf) are chaotic. Apparently the encyclopedia entry says they work for the Wizard of Yendor. I guess that's why they don't care if you kill the gnomes and dwarves in Minetown, but get huffy about the fountains!

      (this information is all from 3.6.0, don't know if it's the same in the current version)

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    14. Well, I have no opinion about history or what Gygax intended, but it makes far more sense to me for "lawful" to mean "law-abiding" or "law-oriented," rather than just "organized." I mean, I'm pretty DIS-organized, but I wouldn't go to war over it.

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    15. "Lawful does mean law-abiding, and it should be ajudicated as such by GMs." I'd expect plenty of Lawful Good or even Lawful Neutral characters to (for example) free slaves even if it isn't legal.

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  5. > One of them has a spellbook of "Remove Curse." While trying to read it to learn the spell better, for some reason all of my gold disappears.

    Failing to learn an spell can have various bad effects - losing your gold hardly being the worst one.

    Interestingly, a lv 16 character with int 16 should have a 100% chance to successfully learn remove curse, so either the formula changed at some point or (more likely) you tried to read a cursed spellbook.

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  6. You really need a bag. Without one to protect your scrolls and potions, they just don't last long. Specially in Gehennom where there are fire traps everywhere.

    So i would certainly wish for a blessed greased* bag of holding. Aside of that i don't think you need anything urgently.

    *(a greased bag protects the contents if you accidentally fall in water, although the grease have a 50% chance of washing off so it's not a permanent protection like an Oilskin sack would give).

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    1. Thanks, I wouldn't have thought of that. I'm not sure Bags of Holding existed in previous versions.

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    2. Oh, a warning before a tragedy happens - NEVER put a wand of cancellation, a Bag of Tricks or a second Bag of Holding inside a Bag of holding.

      (Doing that will destroy the bag and everything inside!)

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    3. One piece of advice for bags of holding I recall from a coworker who apparently killed their run this way(related to Bags of Holding, and I assume in this version)

      Less spoilery:
      Gurer ner vgrzf gung pna qrfgebl lbhe ont bs ubyqvat vs lbh cynpr bar vafvqr

      More spoilery:
      Gur vgrz V xabj bs gung pna qb guvf vf n jnaq (fb or pnershy bs havq'q jnaqf)

      Most spoilerly:
      V oryvrir gur eryrinag jnaq vf n jnaq bs pnapryyngvba

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    4. Uhh, well, no need to decode my spoilers then I guess (their content was posted while I was coding mine)

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    5. Yeah i thought about rot13 the advice but honestly losing all your stuff in that way is NO FUN AT ALL and there is no way you are gonna see it coming unless you are a really old school D&D grognard (Those will know that putting a BoH inside a BoH causes an explosion).

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    6. Bag of Holding was in 3.0.0. Though a simple sack would be enough to protect your items and let you exceed the inventory limit. Bags of holding also reduce your encumbrance.

      Oh, and once you get the bag, do not let it become cursed, and immediately uncurse it if it does. A cursed bag of holding not only makes everything heavier, but can destroy items when you take them out. (This means that some holy water, or maybe a wand of cancellation, stays outside the bag. Cancelling the bag of holding will just set it to unblessed/uncursed and won't have any other effects on it or its contents.)

      (Starting in 3.3.0 you would learn about Bags of Holding faster, because there is a new branch with either a bag of holding or a nice

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  7. (per the comments policy: the random strings of letters are ROT13)

    • You are absolutely right that the ring of levitation is going to prove vital. If you hadn't found one, that was a good wish.

    • As Broken25 just said, get yourself a bag of holding.

    • I would also say you want to increase your armor class a bunch. In Gehennom there are monsters that hit hard and it's good to have a low AC. Maybe use that magic marker to write some scrolls of enchant armor and bless them?

    • I think you probably want an artifact weapon too? You can wish for one. Stormbringer is often recommended but it is risky if you aren't playing carefully (vg qbrfa'g nfx sbe pbasvezngvba orsber nggnpxvat crnprshy zbafgref), maybe a nice Frost Brand?

    • And I would be very nervous about walking into Gehennom without some potions of extra healing and full healing. Don't turn those into water. Two things about those:
    Gurl vapernfr lbhe znk UC gbb, juvpu vf fbzrguvat lbh cebonoyl jnag ng guvf cbvag.
    Lbh pna znxr guvf naq bgure hfrshy cbgvbaf ol zvkvat bgure xvaqf bs cbgvbaf. Lbh syng bhg whfg arrq gb ybbx hc na nypurzl fcbvyre vs lbh jnag gb qb guvf, V unir ab vqrn ubj vg zvtug or qvfpbirerq anghenyyl.

    • The ring of regeneration can be useful because of its hunger-increasing properties. You know how you've been satiated from dragon corpses and royal jellies and like that? The ring of regeneration can help.

    • Fire resistance is all or nothing, it doesn't stack. Ditto for pretty much every other resistance. (At least not in later versions, but if you got enlightenment messages like "You are resistant to fire" it should work the same way.)

    • Gems have a use besides selling them (rot13):
    Vs lbh guebj n trz ng n pb-nyvtarq havpbea vg vapernfrf gung yhpx fgng rirelbar'f nyjnlf ubpxvat lbh nobhg. Vg vf zhpu zhpu zber rssrpgvir vs gur trz vf vqragvsvrq. Vs lbh pna svaq n oynpx havpbea vg ubarfgyl zvtug or jbegu gelvat gb ohl gubfr trzf onpx.

    • Finding the tune has a specific little minigame:
    Gbany zhfvpny vafgehzragf pna cynl gharf, naq vs lbh cynl gharf arne gur qenjoevqtr lbh pna trg vagb n tnzr bs Znfgrezvaq gung gryyf lbh gur evtug ghar. Guvf vf xvaq bs naablvat naq lbh unir gb znxr fher gung lbh qba'g fgnaq va gur jebat cynpr naq trg LNFQrq ol gur qenjoevqtr pbzvat qbja ba lbhe urnq, fb tbvat va gur onpx qbbe vf svar. Nf fbzr sbyxf unir zragvbarq gurer ner bgure jnlf gb qb guvf (gur Oryy bs Bcravat unf yvzvgrq punetrf gubhtu fb V jbhyq fnir vg sbe jura lbh arrq vg).

    • This is going to annoy you, but you needed to find some secret doors in Mines' End. I don't know why you've had such terrible luck finding secret doors. Though I guess it just happens sometimes, my second ascended character was a Tourist who got absolutely stuck on an early level with no apparent exit, to the extent that I considered noping back out of the dungeon until I remembered that Tourists start with four scrolls of magic mapping.

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    1. > • I think you probably want an artifact weapon too? You can wish for one. Stormbringer is often recommended but it is risky if you aren't playing carefully (vg qbrfa'g nfx sbe pbasvezngvba orsber nggnpxvat crnprshy zbafgref), maybe a nice Frost Brand?

      Wishing for an artifact weapon at this point is a pretty bad idea.

      Negvsnpg jvfurf pna snvy vs gurer ner nyernql ng yrnfg gjb negvsnpgf trarengrq - Purg tnzr unf nyernql uvf dhrfg negvsnpg, naq gurer vf n aba-gevivny punapr bs fbzr enaqbz negvsnpg orvat trarengrq fbzrjurer gung ur qvq zvff.

      Naq nfvqr bs gung, jvfuvat sbe n jrncba vf n pbzcyrgr jnfgr jura ur pna whfg znxr n ohapu bs fnpevsvprf naq trg bar sbe serr.

      Fgbezoevatre nyfb vfa'g cnegvphynel tbbq, pregnvayl abg va Truraabz jurer zbfg zbafgref erfvfg qenva qnzntr, fb vg jbhyaq'g qb nal zber qnzntr guna n abezny fjbeq.

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    2. The reason why Stormbringer is popular is because chaotic characters can easily get it for free - if you are going to spent a wish in an artifact weapon, you may as well wish for Grayswandir, which is the absolutely top tier weapon in the game and quite a bit better over all alternatives.

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    3. Like, if we compare Grayswandir with Frostbrand:

      Sebfgoenaq qbrf qbhoyr qnzntr ntnvafg rarzvrf jvgubhg pbyq erfvfgnapr - vs gur rarzl erfvfg pbyq, vg'f whfg n abezny ybatfjbeq. Nyfb vg qrfgeblf nal cbgvbaf gur rarzl znl or pneelvat, erqhpvat lbhe ybbg.

      Tenlfjnaqve qbrf qbhoyr qnzntr ntnvafg nyy rarzvrf, ab fgevatf nggnpurq, naq vg nyfb unf n znffvir +1q20 fvyire qnzntr obahf ntnvafg nyy qrzbaf, inzcver naq Funqrf, gung vf, gur znwbevgl bs rarzvrf va Truurabz.

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    4. I wouldn't have known to wish for either of those weapons; I've never heard of them before. I think since I have plenty of food, I may go back up to the most recent altar and just camp there, sacrificing things, until I finally get something. I gather from your discussion that alignment may affect what weapons you can get from sacrifices, but it doesn't affect what weapons you can wield or wish for?

      "This is going to annoy you, but you needed to find some secret doors in Mines' End." I needed to do that if I wanted the special artifact there, or I needed to do it, period, or I can't win the game?

      I appreciate all the other advice.

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    5. >I gather from your discussion that alignment may affect what weapons you can get from sacrifices, but it doesn't affect what weapons you can wield or wish for?

      This is mostly correct.

      If you use a cross aligned artifact weapon, it may ocasionally (25% chance) blast you for 4d4 damage (2d4 if you have magic resistance) when you wield it. This is basically completely irrelevant, except maybe if you wish for one at lv 1.

      Excalibur and Stormbringer are exceptions to this rule - you absolutely need to be lawful/chaotic to use them, otherwise you won't even be able to grab them - and you will get blasted with 4d10 damage if you try.

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    6. "The reason why Stormbringer is popular is because chaotic characters can easily get it for free"

      Not because it sounds cool?

      Delete
    7. > I think since I have plenty of food, I may go back up to the most recent altar and just camp there, sacrificing things, until I finally get something.

      I am not 100% sure if it's applicable in 3.1, but in all the versions i have played elves can guarantee Stormbringer as their first sacrifice gift with this little trick:

      Gur svefg punbgvp fnpevsvpr tvsg jvyy rvgure or Tevzgbbgu, Fgvat, Bepevfg be Fgbezoevatre. Ryira arire trg Tevzgbbgu orpnhfr vg'f na bepvfu jrncba - Naq lbh pna rnfvyl trg Fgvat naq Bepuevfg sbe serr. #Anzvat nal enaqbz ryira qnttre Fgvat jvyy ghea vg vagb Fgvat - #Anzvat nal enaqbz ryira oebnqfjbeq Bepevfg jvyy ghea vg vagb Bepevfg.

      Jvgu gubfr bhg bs gur cbby, gur svefg fnpevsvpr tvsg vf thnenagrrq gb or Fgbezoevatre.

      Bs pbhefr rira jvgubhg gur gevpx lbh jvyy riraghnyyl trg vg naljnl, be znlor lbh jvyy trg bar bs gur Oenaqf be fbzr bgure tbbq jrncba, ohg vg znl gnxr n juvyr - gur svefg tvsg qbrfa'g gnxr znal fnpevsvprf, ohg rnpu fhofrphrag bar gnxrf zber naq zber.

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    8. The secret doors in Mines' End are for the special item, not necessary to win the game! Sorry about that. You would also find some stuff that is kind of nice to have and one thing that is Not Nice to pick up, though at this point you could surely find a way to get rid of it.

      I was thinking of alignment blast as a reason not to wish for Grayswandir, but as Broken25 points out it's not that much damage. A bit more about the Excalibur/Stormbringer thing:
      Gur rkgen qnzntr gb lbh vf orpnhfr gurl ner vagryyvtrag negvsnpgf. Gur bgure vagryyvtrag negvsnpgf ner gur dhrfg erjneq negvsnpgf, juvpu ner nyjnlf sevraqyl gb punenpgref bs gur fnzr ebyr, hahfnoyr gb punenpgref bs qvssrerag nyvtazrag, naq jvyy oynfg pbnyvtarq punenpgref bs qvssrerag ebyrf. Gurer vf rknpgyl bar vgrz n punbgvp rys pbhyq jvfu sbe naq hfr guvf jnl, ohg pneelvat vg nebhaq tvirf lbh n irel avpr cebcregl (juvpu vf sbeghangr, orpnhfr lbh pna'g hfr vg jvgubhg trggvat oynfgrq). Ng yrnfg, nf bs gur yngre irefvbaf V cynlrq...

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    9. A story about Grayswandir: Once I found it randomly generated on the floor in the starting room. Unfortunately, this was a game that I had started in wizard mode in order to check a message for a comic. (Ironically, the artifact blast message that I got by picking up Grayswandir.)

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    10. Grayswandir is the protagonist's weapon in the Amber Chronicles by Roger Zelazny, which was a popular fantasy series around the time Nethack was written. So I suppose the design is that players can wish for items from their favorite books. The wishing wells in Ultima V have a similar trick, albeit with cars instead of swords.

      It its source material, Grayswandir is noted to be particularly powerful against creatures of Chaos. However, the main character doesn't win a lot of swordfights with it, so it doesn't stand out nearly as much as Stormbringer does.

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    11. @Radiant: You could wish for a car in U5?

      Ok, just did a quick search, so I understand you could wish for some car brands instead of a "horse" and would also get a horse as result, is that it?

      Fun little detail, don't recall that having been mentioned in the coverage of and comments on U5 here, but then again, it's been a while.

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    12. Yes. I think your horse is faster if you wish for a Ferrari, something like that. Nice little easter egg.

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    13. Just when you thought you knew everything about a game.

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    14. Speaking of,
      It was recently discovered that, in Serpent Isle, eating a giant mushroom between midnight and 7am has a chance to give you flight (after releasing the banes). Even 30 years later, Easter eggs surface.
      https://ultimacodex.com/2023/06/eating-magic-mushrooms-makes-you-fly-in-serpent-isle/

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    15. > It was recently discovered that, in Serpent Isle, eating a giant mushroom between midnight and 7am has a chance to give you flight (after releasing the banes).

      Oh wow.

      Now that's some amazingly hidden secret lol.

      Delete
  8. You have a magic lamp!?! The Random Number Generator god really does love you. Maybe you don’t need that luckstone after all. This is the luckiest Nethack game I’ve heard of. As you might have noticed, magic lamps never run out of fuel (happy hanukkah!), but at the cost of losing that very convenient ability, you can make like Aladdin and #rub them.
    Your frustrations around Mine’s End are painful to read. So sorry. The map for Mine’s End is always 1 of 3 layouts. All three are shown on this page: https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Mines%27_End . Your map is the first one shown, and it displays the secret doors you missed. A scroll of magic mapping, a potion/scroll of Object Detection, or your Palantir would have all found the hidden areas for you. This tip will come in handy when you get to the final levels and need to find the way up.

    Luckstones prevent luck from timing out. Blessed luckstones prevent good luck from timing out, cursed ones prevent bad luck from timing out. Uncursed luckstones prevent both from timing out. A blessed luckstone obviously helps a lot. Maybe wish for it?

    Your play through Medusa and the Castle has been excellent, as have your wishing choices. I was a little worried as the new Medusa and Castle levels frequently lead to YASDs, but you avoided the typical newbie mistakes with elan. Don’t underestimate water creatures, however. They can be deadly.

    You would have eventually gotten the tune from sacrifices, but the drawbridge is a death trap. After two consecutives deaths on the drawbridge, I always use the backdoor. That there *is* a backdoor and it’s safer, feels like an intentional joke by the nethack devs.

    Your cursed items and the lost gold are almost certainly from reading cursed spellbooks.

    A potion or scroll of Enlightenment will help identify what intrinsics you have and are missing.

    Magic Resistance, Levitation, Speed and Reflection are the only absolute requirements for Gehennom, and you already have those. If it was my game, I’d be a little worried about your experience level, low HP, and mediocre AC. I’d also want a better weapon(s).

    Looking at your inventory here are some potential things to wish for:

    Blessed Luckstone
    Blessed Amulet of Life Saving
    Blessed +5 fireproof Cloak of Displacement
    Blessed Bag of Holding (Broken25’s advice is spot on! I’ve died so many times by putting a wand of cancellation in a bag of holding.)
    Blessed +5 silver saber. Demons and undead hate silver and guess who lives in Hell?
    Blessed +5 rustproof gauntlets of power. (kicks your Str up to 25.)
    3 cursed scrolls of Genocide. (Yes, cursed, but the explanation is a big spoiler, coded below.)

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    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    2. In v3.3 you'll be able to get what I consider to be the empirically best ascenscion kit, but you can't get silver dragon scale mail in 3.1 so GDSM (for magic resistance), Shield of reflection, Cloak of Protection, and Amulet of Life Saving provides the best kit (IMO) that includes a cloak with an MC value of 3.

      The cloak of displacement has an MC value of 2. This was questioned by a Nethack OG so I code dived it back when and prevailed in an epic nerd battle.

      Applying an oil can on a piece of armor will make it greased. Make sure you don't leave your weapon dropped on the ground due to greased hands after applying grease.

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    3. Reposting my original comment that was deleted above because I needed correct something:

      I'll share my view although the subject of ascenscion kits is one of the first topics ever debated ad nauseum in the earliest days of the pre-Internet.

      1. Blessed greased Bag of Holding - then put the BoH inside an oilskin sack and your loots will be fully safe. Never carry a wand of cancellation except to use it. You will eventually brain fart and put * in your BoH and blow it up.
      2. Blessed Luckstone - it is almost inconceivable that you have gotten so many wishes without one. RNG has indeed blessed you.
      3. Blessed greased rustproof +2 gauntlets of power, and then enchant them up to +5 which also buffs your strength by same amount.
      4. Blessed greased fireproof +2 Cloak of Protection (not displacement) because you need a cloak with MC value of 3 (see link at end of this comment)
      5. Blessed Amulet of Life Saving (since you are getting reflection from your shield)

      One of the most misunderstood topics (to this day) is that of magic cancellation (MC), which is not the same as using a wand of cancellation. I wrote a spoiler on it back in the day, but all that content is now accurately reflected on this page:
      https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Magic_cancellation_(3.4.3)

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  9. Preparing yourself for what’s in store under the Castle is the most tedious part of a Nethack run.

    You can use the Magic Marker to create scrolls of enchant armor, bless the scrolls, and then enchant your armor. Don’t go above +5 as it will destroy the item. You can continue to donate money to priests to get our AC down. It doesn’t matter if they are co-aligned. They really are running a protection racket.

    You can continue to make sacrifices until you get a high powered artifact weapon. As a chaotic elf, you’ll eventually get Stormbringer. Stormy is fun, but dangerous for your friends. It’s also not that effective on demons and undead, so I like having a silver saber as backup.

    Drinking a blessed potion of extra healing while at full health gives you extra healing.

    Read a blessed scroll of genocide to get rid of all L’s. Just getting rid of liches, doesn’t remove master liches. And liches are the worst.

    Wands of digging are very useful. Don’t waste them. They can create escape routes, and make the endgame much easier.

    Broken25, matt w, and the other nethack experts are going to give me the side eye for what I’m about to suggest. It’s not cheating, but Nethack purists don’t necessarily approve.

    Ernqvat n phefrq fpebyy bs trabpvqr perngrf n cnpx bs gur fcrpvsvrq zbafgre nebhaq lbh. Perngvat n ohapu bs jenvguf va n ebbz gung unf fgengrtvpnyyl cynprq Ryorergu’f, nyybjf lbh gb trg n avpr unys qbmra jenvgu pbecfrf. Vs lbh ner jvryqvat Fgbezoevatre, gurl pna'g yriry qenva lbh.

    Ahefrf unir na vagrerfgvat novyvgl. Vs lbh ner abg nezrq naq abg jrnevat nezbe, gurl jvyy urny lbh. Vs lbh ner nyernql ng shyy urnygu, gurl jvyy vapernfr lbhe znk urnygu. Fhzzbavat ahefrf jvgu n phefrq fpebyy bs trabpvqr va n fznyy nern gung qvfnyybjf gryrcbegvat vf pnyyrq Ahefr Qnapvat. Lbh pna dhvpxyl trg lbhe UC hc gb 200-300 guvf jnl.

    Good luck in Hell!

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    1. I certainly wouldn't side eye that! Those are mechanisms that were put into the game for that specific purpose, and possibly less cheesy than some of the alchemy shenanigans I've gotten up to.

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    2. Why we wouldn't approve of that? That's a super common and valid strat lol.

      Although i wouldn't waste fpebyyf bs trabpvqr fhzzbavat jenvguf, zber yriryf oneryl uryc ng guvf cbvag naq gurer ner purncre jnlf gb yriry hc naljnl. Fhzzbavat Ahefrf sbe uc vf terng gub.

      Yesterday i ascended a Ranger with 709 max hp by using a combination of that strat and alchemy, that was pretty great.

      I stopped playing Nethack years ago but i got the bug reading Chet blog and now i got an streak of four wins in a row going, tomorrow hopefully five.

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    3. Nice! Good luck with #5. And yeah, regarding the rot13 bit, I agree. There's going to be a enough real soon anyway.

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    4. " Don’t go above +5 as it will destroy the item." And as a corollary, apparently, "Don't assume the scroll will automatically apply to a different item if you're already wearing a +5 item."

      I might do the nurse trick because I've already slain a few liches and I didn't find them so bad.

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    5. Also the max safe enchant for armor is +3. +4 armor can and probably will explode if enchanted.

      A blessed scroll can jump the enchant from +3 to +5, but if it leaves it at +4 you can't enchant it anymore.

      (Unless you do some rather involved things to disenchant it, which isn't really worthwhile).

      Weapons max at +6 or +7. If you have spare scrolls and want to disenchant a +6 weapon, that's however rather easy - you can just engrave one (1) letter with the weapon and that will reduce enchantment to +5, then you can try to get it to +7.

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    6. " Don’t go above +5 as it will destroy the item." And as a corollary, apparently, "Don't assume the scroll will automatically apply to a different item if you're already wearing a +5 item."

      oof. That hurts. If it's any consolation, we've all been there.

      Delete
  10. Back in the mid 90s I worked at an office where we played competitive Nethack, vying for the best ranking on the high score list. But what we discovered was that the war stories that we shared were even better than the competition. “I was doing so well, and X happened, so I did Y, but it just led to Z!” “Oh man, did you try A/B/C?” doh! *slaps forehead*

    It soon morphed into a running joke about the “Nethack Hotline”, basically Car Talk for Nethack (again this was the 90s). Then we started trying to outdo each other by acting out hypothetical bits for Nethack Hotline calls. Like:

    Host 1: “Nethack Hotline! What’s eating ya?”

    Caller: “Hey guys! This is Bill from Santa Clara. Long time / First Time. Well, things were going great till Gnometown. I was perusing some merchandise at Asidonhopo’s when, wouldn’t ya know it, the Teleportitis kicked in, and I got zapped over to the other side of town. Now the place is swarming with Kops, pies and rubber hoses are flying everywhere. It’s not good! How do I make this go away? How do I fix this guys!? You gotta help me!”

    Host 2: “Aw, Bill! You gotta lay off the leprechaun steaks, man!”

    Caller: "Don't I know it!"

    Host 1: “First off, Bill, do you have a towel?”

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  11. Nobody has mentioned that the Amulet of Magical Breathing is a nice item. It prevents you from drowning to water creatures. It allows you to create many potions of water and scrolls of blank paper from the useless potions and scrolls without risk. (True, the ring of levitation does that too when you're over a water square.) And it's particularly useful in one area in the endgame. Amulet of Life Saving is mostly better but once you wish for the Blessed Greased Bag of Holding you can store it for later.

    Definitely wish for the Blessed Bag of Holding and 2-3 blessed scrolls of charging with your two wand wishes. Then charge the wand and see what else you need. Amulet of Life Saving is good if you are playing honestly. And I'd save a wish and go back to Mines' End for the guaranteed luckstone, but I realize it's tedious.

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    1. > (True, the ring of levitation does that too when you're over a water square.)

      Nah you can't reach the floor while levitating, so you can't dip on the water.

      To dip on a moat you need either Water Walking boots or Flying. (Which is a superior form of levitation that no item gives - you can only Fly if polymorphed in a flying creature, or if you are riding one).

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    2. Magic breathing also has another, much less obvious use:

      Vg ceriragf qrngu sebz pubpxvat, fb vs lbh, fnl, jnag gb rng 4 tvnagf va n ebj sbe gung qryvpvbhf rkgen fgeratug lbh pna qb vg fnsryl.

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    3. You can dip things in water if you're levitating over it in this version of the game. That's how I've been operating exclusively since I got the ring.

      You can really eat indefinitely? I figured the game would have your stomach explode at some point.

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    4. If you keep eating with magical breathing, you eventually "vomit voluminously" and lose a lot of nutrition.

      But you keep any intrisics and whatnot you may have gained from wharever you ate, so still a net win if you like, want to eat two dragons in a row for resistances.

      Delete
  12. I used to play "Moria" an awful lot of years ago, and was most likely pretty lousy at it, but these posts about NetHack has revived my interest in killing ASCII-monsters and pressing the wrong key at the wrong time in the narrowest of hallways.

    My current character is an lvl 3 Archeologist that mostly runs around eating things constantly.

    (For anyone starting out playing NetHack, even though the built-in help is really good, I found that having this keyboard command cheatsheet open in a tab is really handy: https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/images/a/ac/Nethack_Keyboard_Commands.pdf)

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    1. Much easier to read then the one I learned off of!

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    2. Cheers!

      (And now my Archeologist died in the gnomish mines on level 5, killed by a shuriken. RIP BUBBE.)

      Delete
  13. Was it coincidence that on the level where a large lake of water blocks progress (a "lock", if you will), there was an Amulet of Magical Breathing right in the first room? (A "key" for that lock, so to speak.)

    Here's the description for that special level:
    https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Medusa's_Island#Second_version

    And here's the code for its generation in the current version of Nethack, quite readable:
    https://github.com/NetHack/NetHack/blob/NetHack-3.7/dat/medusa-2.lua

    I don't see a reference to the amulet in the code (though this doesn't exclude the possibility that there could have been one in the older version).

    But as I understand, Nethack in general does not generate levels in a way to ensure that there is always a "key" to be found before every "lock"; rather, the game makes it possible to acquire basically any item, including any necessary "key", through several more or less time-consuming or luck-based methods.

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  14. I have to say, these nethack posts are a riveting read. I don't think I'd have much patience to play the game, but I can read these entries happily for a long time!

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  15. Elvenkings are just a strong monster, you will encounter them later, too.
    The swamp is not the dangerous part, but the eels can drown you instantly.
    Your helm is fine; there are marginally better ones, and special ones you don't need.
    --joes

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  16. "I begin in the southwest corner of Level 21. [...] I head for the wraith first. I ate one fairly recently, while returning from the Gnomish Mines, and it brought me to Level 15."

    This difference between "level" and "level" is reminding me of this classic Order of the Stick comic: https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0012.html

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    1. That's pretty funny. I try to differentiate them with "dungeon level" and "character level" when it's ambiguous, but I do forget sometimes.

      Delete

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