Sunday, October 9, 2022

Dungeon Master II: One Floor Up, Two Floors Down

I don't know what this guy's problem was, but he took forever to kill.
        
When I wrapped up last time, I had just opened the door to Skullkeep. I had remarked last time that Dungeon Master's famous puzzles had been largely lacking from this sequel, so I was happy to see a pressure plate at the end of the first hallway. On the wall behind it was some kind of eye. I stepped on the plate to inspect the eye and, while I was inspecting it, a fireball roared down the hallway from my left and killed the entire party.
       
Well, we know why they call it Skullkeep.
      
I reloaded, tried again, and this time stepped backwards quickly after stepping on the plate. The fireball shot harmlessly by. I stepped on the plate again, and this time it didn't trigger a fireball. I guess that was a one-time thing. The eye also remained closed.
   
In an alcove to the right were three buttons. To my left were a series of three portcullises. Each button opened one of the portcullises after a short delay, but stepping on the pressure plate in front of the eye (or maybe stepping off the pressure plate in front of the buttons; I was never sure which) caused the portcullises to close again. I spent a lot of time trying to weigh the plates down before I realized that the puzzle had a simpler solution: just run quickly through the gates as they opened.
   
On the other side, I found stairs up, a "Minion Map," and the key necessary to open the main entrance of Skullkeep (so I can return to town). There was also a small room nearly surrounded by pits, with a sword called Tempest in the center square. I found that picking up the sword caused a pit to open next to the only entrance, thus blocking the way out of the room. A ladder led to the cave beneath the pits, but there was nothing there except some poisonous worms. Tempest casts some kind of lightning bolt spell, but it ran out after two charges.
         
These guys don't hit hard, but they poison.
       
Still, I wanted to keep the sword. Some experimentation showed me that the pit closed the moment I dropped the sword anywhere in the room. I found that if I threw it at the square with the pit, it closed while the sword was in the air, thus providing a safe place for the sword to land. I could then walk across the square and pick up the sword from the other side.
  
I took the stairs to the next level. A bell on a rope summoned a little Jawa-like creature to open the gate to his room by pushing a button on his side of the gate. The room had three or four Jawas plus some uber-Jawa holding a magical staff. They didn't attack until I picked up any of the items in the room. A quick scan showed no way out except a closed door, suggesting I would need those items to progress. I was thus forced to fight.
        
The first level (at least the part I mapped) wasn't huge, but they fit a lot into it.
      
The regular Jawas weren't too hard, but the SuperJawa took me forever. His staff was capable of a terrifying "Fireball" spell that could kill the party outright, so I had to avoid him. There are protection spells to help mitigate the damage, but not so much that I could stand still and swing away. I tried swinging and dodging, offensive spells, and even summoned allies, but I couldn't seem to defeat him. He kept running over to a huge cauldron in the center of the room, waving his arms, and getting zapped, and it soon became clear that the cauldron was somehow healing him. The only way I could defeat him was to load every character's hands with FUL bombs and unleash them in quick succession, overriding his health before he could restore it. That finally worked.
      
The SuperJawa kills me with fireballs.
     
The staff the Jawa leader was carrying was called a Numenstaff. It casts a couple of spells, including what turns out to be a quick succession of three "Fireballs." The alcoves around the room had what seemed like ingredients: a spirit cap mushroom, a mana blossom, a plain staff, a sword made of "meteor metal," a gold coin, and a red gem. A scroll gave the "recipe" for a Snake Staff: one mana blossom and one staff. I put both these items in the cauldron and indeed got a staff capable of a few spells. I discovered that items put in the cauldron can be retrieved if they don't do anything, so I just tossed stuff in there until some combination of the meteor metal sword, the gold coin, the red gem, and the spirit cap created a sword called "Blue Steel." 
     
This was a pretty cool sword.
    
At this point, I had more weapons than I needed, so I took a more careful look at them. In attack power, they seem to go in order from weakest to strongest: Tempest, Vorpal Blade, Excsymyr, Fury, and Blue Steel. Tempest has that lightning attack, but that only helps if I can find a way to recharge it. The Vorpal Blade is worth keeping regardless of its raw power for the ability to hit ethereal foes.
   
Something I did opened the door to the further reaches of the level. I came to a long corridor where fireballs kept roasting the party. They seemed to have something to do with a bunch of mechanical eyes lining the corridors and perhaps reporting on my progress. I thought "Invisibility" might get me past them, but that didn't work. During my experiments with the SuperJawa, I found that ZO BRO ROS created some kind of shimmering mist that repels spells. It doesn't follow the party but remains in the square where it was cast. I used it to deflect the fireballs and make it to the end of the corridor, although I had to reload a few times.
      
My spell protects me from the fireballs.
     
A later section of the dungeon reminded me that there are still illusory walls that you have to walk into. I reloaded an earlier save to check for such illusory walls in the earlier part of the level, and I found several within the fireball corridor, each bringing me around to a square behind one with a mechanical eye. In these squares, I was able to open a panel and remove the eye from the wall socket, thus causing the fireballs not to launch in the first place--in most places, anyway. I couldn't find a way behind the final eye, so the "spell shield" was necessary for that one even if I could have avoided the others. 
       
Disabling a mechanical eye.
     
In the chambers beyond the fireball corridor, I started finding cogs and gear contraptions that needed cogs to open doors. More important, I found one of those teleporters to take me back to town.

I spent a while doing the rounds of the shops, taking a closer look at the inventories, and spending some of the riches I'd amassed on armor. I also bought two cogs and the vacuum fuse in that little village to the east, figuring I'd soon need them. 
          
Buying a piece of armor. My funds are starting to run out.
      
Back in the level, there was a long corridor in which multiple cogs had to be fitted into gears to open doors. If I moved too slow, pits opened and dumped the party into the basement, where we had to fight ghosts. 
     
The area beyond the gear doors gave me a headache. There are so many things crammed in one room. There is a ladder going down to some caves that I needed to hit a switch to lower. There's a boiler with a sign next to it telling me to "turn on water valves two levels up" before using it. There are a couple of weird machines that look almost like computers, with a sign reading, "Furnace on level below must be stoked and burning." There are two portal-looking things, but I can't seem to go through them. Nor can I throw things through them.
     
I don't know what these are all about.
    
There were a couple of probes to fight in this area. One of them blasted me pretty hard, but he wouldn't leave his square, so it was easy to pop over, attack, and dodge away. Probes keep popping up to attack me wherever I go these days, even in towns--sometimes even in shops.
      
The only door out of this area wouldn't open. Nearby, I found a square YA key, and in an alcove, I found a square receptacle that took it. The door opened, but only to a short corridor where another door required the same key. I returned to grab it, but a pit was now blocking my access to it. There was a button on an adjacent wall, and I figured it would close the pit, but instead it caused the YA key to pop out of its receptacle and fall into the pit.
       
I guess I'd better go after it.
      
I took the ladder down to the caverns below, which were swarming with constantly-respawning bats. They do a trivial amount of damage, so I mostly ignored them. There were rocks called "pyros" all over the floor. They were heavy, so I annotated them but left them where they were. There were also a bunch of large boulders and holes to stuff them in, which I did, but I'm not sure it served any purpose.
      
Large boulders and small bats marked this section of the game.
       
I was surprised to find an exit from this area that led me back outside, at a location where there hadn't been an opening before. I was further surprised to find that the map I'd made of the caverns was completely backwards. Some stairway must have spun me around at some point. The game usually maintains consistency in facing direction when you move up and down.
      
The caverns link up with the "outside" part of the ground level.
     
A one-way ladder and pit led down to the underground beneath the main level, where it wasn't long before I met some kind of giant cave man. He was capable of casting a "poison field" spell and he liked to shove my party back a square whenever he was adjacent to us. It took me about 20 minutes of running around casting spells and shooting arrows at him--also dealing with the probes that kept popping up in the meantime--before I was able to kill him and loot a key from his body.
   
The key led to a small area in which these stone cyclops kept spawning. Once they got out of the room, they ran picking up all the pyros. The room had a button that activated a teleporter back to the previous (main) level. I still have more to explore on the sub-level though, and although I haven't yet found any ladders, a plethora of pits attests to yet another level below this.
   
Maybe I should have picked up those pyros myself.
     
I've continued shifting people around and swapping weapons in and out to keep leveling relatively even. Everyone is mostly Level 8 ("Expert") in everything, but a couple have crept to Level 9 ("Master") in the two magic classes. I've finally mastered movement, which will undoubtedly screw me up in the next game, but I have the hardest time remembering the runes for the spells that I cast most often. Having to constantly refer to my notes is a pain. 
   
Overall, it was a good session. I liked the return of puzzles, and the game has done a better job making them somewhat thematic rather than just purely mechanical. I look forward to what awaits me as I continue to search for that square key.
        
Time so far: 22 hours
 
  

51 comments:

  1. I believe the “intended” way to recover the Tempest sword is with the Minion Map you find close to that area, congrats on finding an alternate way.

    IIRC there is a way to disable each eye, but the path to the last one is quite covoluted.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm not sure how I'd use a map to recover a sword--which is a sign that perhaps I need to spend more time with that map.

      Delete
    2. About the minion map functions (ROT13): Gurer fubhyq or n shapgvba va gur zvavba znc jurer lbh pna zbir gur phefbe gb n fcrpvsvp gvyr naq fcnja n zvavba (cebor) gung jvyy oevat onpx gb lbh na vgrz ylvat ba gung gvyr.

      Lbh pna nyfb unir gur zvavba qebc na vgrz ba n gvyr.

      Delete
    3. The "intended" way is a good optional puzzle where the player needs to find out how to use the recently found magic map. Solving it is nicely rewarding precisely because there is no handholding.

      I was very surprised at Chet's alternate solution! Like Wayne Holder said about DM 1 in that interview that was linked in the comment section of the first post: "I've managed to play through parts of the game again and still find alternate solutions to puzzles. If you can come up with something where you can go back to it and find a new way to play, that's great."

      Delete
  2. I think that th German prefix "uber" corresponds to the Latin "super" and the Greek "hyper".

    I checked and found out they can all be translated as "over" in English.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It is just a bit of useless trivia :)

      Delete
    2. Correctly spelled it would be über because we use umlauts :p

      Delete
  3. Also, it is interesting to see how you are less familiar with religion than with Star Wars (no criticism: I state it as a fact). What you called "Jawa" in more than one video game, I would call it "monk" or "friar". I think it would be more fantasy-ish and medieval-ish.

    It is nice to see different perceptions.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's because they're short. They also had Jawa-like creatures in Dungeon Master and these are likely a throwback. They were never named in the game but evidently they're called Vexirks.

      Delete
    2. I suppose I can't dispute the premise that I probably know more about Star Wars than most religions, but it's not like I'm not familiar with the concept of "monks." I just don't think that the creature in proportion or size looks human.

      Delete
    3. And one thing that I continually HATE about this series that you have to go to external tools to learn the names of the things you're fighting.

      Delete
    4. In any case, that Chet uses the word and that probably most readers immediately know what he is talking abiut says something about the cultural impact of 'Star Wars'. I could even see it as conceivable in a not too distant future that many younger people are more familiar with Jawas than with monks... .

      Jawa is also a Czech producer of motorcycles and formerly cars, as I just discovered.

      Delete
    5. "The Name of the Rose" (starring Sean Connery) deserves more audience, but a single movie cannot compete with the "Star Wars" franchise :D

      Delete
    6. Those Jawas immediately reminded me of the wizards from Heretic. Even the pitchfork symbol looks similar.

      Delete
    7. Eh, pitchfork = trident. Looked those wizards upx the color palette is nearly identical. https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Disciple_of_D%27Sparil

      Delete
    8. They look to me like Dark Creepers and Dark Stalkers from D&D.

      Delete
    9. Abacos, a well-regarded game inspired by The Name of the Rose came out that you might enjoy, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Abad%C3%ADa_del_Crimen

      Delete
    10. 'La Abadía del Crimen" (original version) was covered earlier this year on 'The Adventurers Guild'. I think the introductory post up to 'On to the game' should not contain any spoilers: https://advgamer.blogspot.com/2022/04/missed-classic-108-la-abadia-del-crimen.html.

      Delete
  4. I like that the enemies DO things other than wander around and attack you. I think that's a rarity among RPGs.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I forgot to mention that enemies in this game will push the buttons on doors to close YOU in the doors, just like the player did to enemies in DM1

      Delete
    2. Wow, didn't encounter that yet.

      Also, I noticed that the enemy probes/minions will come towards the player through the holes in the ceiling (where a pit is in the level above).

      It's understandable that lots of players dislike the constant ambushes and respawning -- but you've got to admit that Skullkeep is alive! Not like most games where enemies will wait politely for the player.

      Delete
  5. If you like thematic puzzles, you are in for a treat. Just as yet another reminder, this isn't DM and has slightly different rules. One in hindsight simple puzzle blocked me from completing.

    About your idea to replay DM 1: there is Stonekeep ahead and that is basically the last DM-style game. Lands of Lore 2 already has free movement. So you can basically frame all step-based dungeon crawlers with DM.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Not quite. Stonekeep is from the 1995, as is Anvil of Dawn. But there is also Revolt of Don's Knights from 1996. And the re-emergence of the DM-like games after Legend of Grimrock.

      Delete
    2. Stonekeep basically ends the first era, because it's the last dungeon crawler of any significance - which is good enough for a frame around. Waiting for Grimrock will take too long and I don't think you can include everything. Okay, include Anvil of Dawn (in my head that was before Stonekeep).

      Delete
    3. But is it really much of an "era" considering this subgenre is mostly limited to the Dungeon Master and Eye of the Beholder series, plus Lands of Lore?

      Delete
    4. @Anonymous, those series are the most well known, but Chet has played for the blog games like Captive (and sequel), Knightmare , Abandoned Places (and sequel), Black Crypt, just on top of my mind, all games clearly inspired to the original DM, and all came out in the early 90s. It’s a very distinctive subgenre in CRPG history, IMHO, and one that is very tied to this specific years (before the modern revival with Grimrock and co.).

      Delete
    5. Crystal Dragon on the Amiga was 1994 according to Google links. From my recollection it was the last one of that genre I played, after DM2. Seems to have been Amiga only. I honestly didn't get too far in it before moving on to something else, but it seems to have a good reputation.

      Delete
    6. There is another one but Amiga only and not officially released. But is playable and good. Evil’s Doom https://dungeoncrawlers.org/game/evils-doom/

      Delete
    7. There are quite a few more, though I can't quite speak for their quality. The Black Dawn series, though a bit weird, is mostly comprised of these, and then we have a few isolated releases as the '90s drag on, as in the indie sphere it was generally more reasonable to do step-based.

      Delete
    8. Ishar, Dungeon Hack...

      Dungeon Master also had some influence on contemporary games even if they didn't quite follow its mold. Xenomorph, which Chet found lacked significant RPG elements, still has a similar interface and combat. Might and Magic III was JVC taking a half-step from Wizardry toward DM, even though he didn't go so far as to become realtime (yet).

      Delete
  6. In RPG's there's a certain frisson to a door closing behind you, challenging the player to make it through a portion of the dungeon/castle without the town's resources; I think it's a bit of a missed opportunity that they gave you a way back so quickly...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I feel like this was definitely the vibe with Curse of the Azure Bonds, and I appreciated it a lot, at least in retrospect. Combined with the stateful reduction in random encounters, it really added stakes to each area, but with a path to continue if you got yourself wedged in.

      Delete
    2. Could a Dungeon Master game with an alternative structure, for example like Wizardry, work well? It seems that almost all games in the DM genre use classic save games. (The upcoming roguelike DM clone Dungeon Hack also offers the option of permadeath.)

      In Wizardry, save games are allowed to interrupt playing sessions, but character deaths get written to the save game file immediately. Reviving characters can fail (they can turn to ashes, meaning permadeath). In case of a full party death, a "rescue expedition" with new characters is necessary to retrieve the bodies for revival.

      However, in the case of DM2, a rescue expedition would be pretty easy and short, because the levels are very compact and interconnected. And if a character revival fails and a new character needs to be brought up, the lack of different character specializations (or rather, the fact that all-rounders are better in this game) might make training the new character boring. Also, there would have to be more randomization in the levels and encounters, otherwise it'd be just retreading known ground.

      Delete
  7. If I recall correctly, you can trap the giant cave man in a some sort of spike/boulder trap.

    For Superjawa, the fight becomes easier if you block him in a corner and move in parallel with him so that he can never go back to the cauldron. Once the Numenstaff is drained of power, he's a sitting duck.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yeah, I found that spike trap in a corridor after I killed him. Next time I meet a really tough enemy, I guess I should explore around before settling in to regular combat.

      Delete
    2. That behaviour of the Superjawa / Vexirk King is pretty cool, isn't it? Requires the player to think and adapt.

      Aw, it doesn't sound as if you enjoyed the boss battle with the cave creature much. That creature is called "Dru Tan". Strange that it took so long, it usually takes less time. He has very high armour strength, though (according to a fan site that extracted the data).

      What I love about this boss battle is the synergy between the enemy's abilities, behaviour and level design. The arena is dotted with pits -- and Dru Tan can shove the party backwards right into them. The player needs to be careful not to run into the pits -- but the poison cloud spells force the player to dodge quickly, and while inside a poison cloud, you can't see clearly anymore, so sooner or later you'll probably run right into a pit all by yourself. For me this chaotic combat is a highlight.

      Alternatively, you can trap Dru Tan in the corridor and kill him with the moving spike wall. But he can also trap YOU in the corridor and kill you that way! When I played this section a couple of days ago, he ran away from the battle after a while, I followed him into the corridor, and at the end he turned around, attacked, and I got trapped between him and the spike wall from behind. Total party kill. It seemed so on purpose that I was floored -- I've never seen any intelligent behaviour like that in games of that time.

      However, when I reloaded a save game and analysed the behaviour today, I found I was probably mistaken. It doesn't seem to me that this monster was specifically programmed to lure the player into the corridor, or at least, there's an easier explanation. It's probably just a consequence of the 'fleeing' behaviour. Once he has low health, he will run away from the player. The level designers placed the corridor such that this is one of the possible paths. If he runs into the corridor and the player follows, then the party and Dru Tan are both trapped. And since he blocks the last square of the corridor (where there is a secret switch in the wall that opens the exit door), the player can't get out and will die between the spike wall and Dru Tan. Pretty impressive anyway!

      Here's a 30 second video of this situation. No item or spell is visible that Chet hasn't yet encountered, so it doesn't contain spoilers for future events.

      https://imgur.com/a/bMAh8gt

      Delete
  8. Do they have the Magic Footprints spell in this one? Might help with unexpected spinners or teleporters.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No! I remember being quite annoyed by that because although I never used it much, it was a cool spell.

      Delete
  9. "I found that ZO BRO ROS created some kind of shimmering mist that repels spells."

    Have you figured out what OH IR ROS does yet? There are quite a few places where it's helpful to have it active (you've already been through some of them), and it's actually quite easy to notice the effect if you pay attention.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There should be a spell called SOM BRE ROS...

      Delete
    2. Of course, Summon Mariachi Band. The most useful spell for any adventurer, a staple.

      Delete
  10. The fireball corridor: Is there anyone who found the intended solution in the first playthrough? Me, and independently also one Czech reviewer at the time, had gotten through by summoning high power minions ("probes") in front of the party to stop the fireballs.

    The portals (iirc): Gurl fcnja gur rarzl zvavbaf, urapr gur pbafgnag bafynhtug bs gurz. Cebonoyl gurer vf n jnl gb pybfr gurz. Znlor n MB fcryy be fbzr vgrz?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sure. It's easy if (ROT13) lbh hfr gur srngher bs gur zntvp zncf gb uvtuyvtug vyyhfbel jnyyf.

      Delete
    2. Bayl sbe bar bs gur rlrf gurer'f (vvep, ntnva) nyfb n frperg ohggba gb or cerffrq naq vg vf cynprq ba gur fnzr fdhner nf na vyyhfvbanel jnyy. Be fbzrguvat yvxr gung. Gbb gevpxl sbe zr ng gur gvzr. Ohg V qvq svaq gur rneyl zbeavat fgne!

      Delete
    3. The portals just seem to open again a couple minutes after casting the spell. I suppose it helps reduce the quantity a little, though.

      Delete
  11. Blue Steel eh? Makes me think of Skullkeep as more of a "Chester Bolingbroke Center for Adventurers Who Can’t Fight Good and Wanna Learn to Do Other Stuff Good Too." That is, if they built it big enough to fit the adventurers inside! I wonder if you can also make the weapons Ferrari and Le Tigra, but they're actually exactly the same as Blue Steel.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Blue steel should be a devastating gaze attack.

      Delete
  12. I'm not fond of 20-minute combats; that gets annoying. In fact, I played Dungeon Master II for an hour or two, got frustrated, and never came back to it. But I'm surprised you didn't find early puzzles; my memory is that the initial area of DM II was full of traps and puzzles.
    Random thought on "Pyros" - Maybe you will use them later to stoke the furnace.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Maybe you have it mixed up with Chaos Strikes Back? There are not really many puzzles at the start of DM 2 that I can think of.

      Delete
    2. I agree. There's not much at the beginning of DM2.

      You are indeed correct about the furnace, although it turns out that I'm not the one that uses them.

      Delete
  13. Dungeon Master II is a bit like a meal where first you eat *all* the potatoes (the combat-heavy outside areas), and then you eat *all* of the meat (the puzzle-heavy keep), instead of alternating things.

    Also, the keep levels can be incredibly dense (lots of encounters and puzzles in compact areas, lots of open threads to keep track of). That's pretty cool in some way, but sometimes I feel like they're *too* dense.

    I like DM2 a lot, but the first game had a better pace, I think. And it's definitely the case that where DM1 was perfect both for beginners and experienced players, DM2 kind of gives beginners a hard time.

    ReplyDelete

I welcome all comments about the material in this blog, and I generally do not censor them. However, please follow these rules:

1. Do not link to any commercial entities, including Kickstarter campaigns, unless they're directly relevant to the material in the associated blog posting. (For instance, that GOG is selling the particular game I'm playing is relevant; that Steam is having a sale this week on other games is not.) This also includes user names that link to advertising.

2. Please avoid profanity and vulgar language. I don't want my blog flagged by too many filters. I will delete comments containing profanity on a case-by-case basis.

3. NO ANONYMOUS COMMENTS. It makes it impossible to tell who's who in a thread. If you don't want to log in to Google to comment, either a) choose the "Name/URL" option, pick a name for yourself, and just leave the URL blank, or b) sign your anonymous comment with a preferred user name in the text of the comment itself.

4. I appreciate if you use ROT13 for explicit spoilers for the current game and upcoming games. Please at least mention "ROT13" in the comment so we don't get a lot of replies saying "what is that gibberish?"

5. Comments on my blog are not a place for slurs against any race, sex, sexual orientation, nationality, religion, or mental or physical disability. I will delete these on a case-by-case basis depending on my interpretation of what constitutes a "slur."

Blogger has a way of "eating" comments, so I highly recommend that you copy your words to the clipboard before submitting, just in case.

I read all comments, no matter how old the entry. So do many of my subscribers. Reader comments on "old" games continue to supplement our understanding of them. As such, all comment threads on this blog are live and active unless I specifically turn them off. There is no such thing as "necro-posting" on this blog, and thus no need to use that term.

I will delete any comments that simply point out typos. If you want to use the commenting system to alert me to them, great, I appreciate it, but there's no reason to leave such comments preserved for posterity.

I'm sorry for any difficulty commenting. I turn moderation on and off and "word verification" on and off frequently depending on the volume of spam I'm receiving. I only use either when spam gets out of control, so I appreciate your patience with both moderation tools.