 |
| "We would be honored if you would join us." |
Chasing a burglar who stole a holy symbol, Somers the Paladin (who I've been calling "Summer" this entire time; I forgot what I named her) and Quill the Ranger have been transported to a strange alternate dimension, full of gloom and fog, ruled by a shadowy figure named Strahd. They have explored a dangerous forest and a desolate town, picking up fighter and fighter/mage/thief companions along the way. They have solved one quest but have not made much progress learning where they are or why they're here. A Vistani gypsy has offered to sell a potion that will let them pass back through the fog, but he wants 15 gold pieces for it, and currency doesn't seem to be a thing in this game.
We begin this session by returning to the Old Svalich Road South. We abandoned exploration last time. I turn on "step movement" for a while, which has the party move in discrete tiles and turn at 90-degree angles, just like the original Dungeon Master or Eye of the Beholder. I don't care for it here. Enemies dance all around the party and seem to be able to hide in the diagonals. Also, the numberpad is extremely sensitive and often ends up registering multiple moves when I only intend one. I could maybe deal with that by lowering the cycles, but that causes other issues. I return to continuous movement.
It turns out that we almost explored the entire map last time, so the only thing we discover in this new excursion is a couple of bandits and a massive, locked gate at the southern end of the road.
 |
| I appreciate the elucidation, but this is an RPG. We're all expecting locked doors with no explanation. |
Soon, we're back in Barovia, which I mistakenly thought we had finished exploring last time. I soon find a few new encounters:
- In addition to the exit to the Cemetery, there's a second northern exit to the Old Svalich Road North.
- In Barovia's northwest corner is a large circle of stones. I don't know what it's for.
- A northwestern exit leads to the aptly-named Wooded Area West of Barovia.
But the main thing I didn't do last time was visit the Burgomaster, who lives in a huge, richly-furnished manor surrounded by walls in the northwest quarter of the city. Somers expresses disgust as we enter. "What gives such a man the right to flaunt finery in a poor town?" Quill later disagrees: "When I am ready to change careers, 'tis a burgomaster I shall become."
 |
| My question is: where did he even get the finery? I didn't meet a single tailor, artist, architect, or furniture maker. |
It's hard to remember any first-person game with more graphic detail than this one. There was some discussion in a previous thread about the graphical quality of Ravenloft in comparison to Eye of the Beholder and other first-person games. To me, it's no contest. Ravenloft might look worse on a pixel basis, but it manages to achieve a much deeper sense of immersion. Its environments are hand-crafted, not just textures. The manor is furnished with tables, wall hangings, lamps, vases, bookshelves, pedestals, candelabras, decorative suits of armor, and other features that create a much deeper sense of immersion than we've seen before. They help to bring life to the sorts of rooms you would expect a manor to have: entry hall, dining room, pantry, study, bedroom.
 |
| An obvious dining room. |
The unfortunate thing is that none of its features are interactive. They can't even hold objects; anything that the party can pick up is strewn across the floor. Thus, something like Ultima Underworld still wins the immersion award. It had less stuff, but what it had felt more real. Still, I appreciate that we're almost there. A few improvements to graphics and sound are all we need to feel like we're really inhabiting the world. It's exciting.
 |
| A study. There's a scroll on the floor. |
Though well-detailed, the manor is mostly empty of anything interesting. We find a couple of scrolls and potions. In a library, we find a writ ordering death for anyone who claims that Lord Strahd von Zarovich is involved in necromancy, that he killed his brother, and that a woman named Tatyana once plunged to her death trying to escape him.
 |
| These things seem awfully specific. |
The Burgomaster is in a den with a roaring fire and a few comfortable chairs. One of them is occupied by a lounging woman, to whom we speak first. She's an attractive elf mage, consulting a book and sipping a drink called tuika. She says she's grown bored of the Burgomaster's attention and offers to join the party. We accept, though over the Burgomaster's protestations ("there are other books, magical volumes I haven't yet displayed before you!"). We say goodbye to "Jill of all trades" Velika.
Our new companion is Glorianna of Sithicus, a neutral good Level 5 mage. She inherits all of Velika's carried stuff, but since she has a quarterstaff (which allows attacking from the rear rank), I decide that I'm done with retrieving missile items. Her starting spell selection isn't great: no "Improved Identify," no "Fireball" (despite two Level 3 slots). Still, I'm sure we'll get there.
 |
| Just what the party was lacking: a 1980s aerobics instructor. |
On to the Burgomaster. He welcomes us in the name of Lord Strahd, his master. When we ask about Strahd, he says, "Your interest in the great one is matched by his interest in you." He hands us an invitation and refuses to answer any more questions, saying only (ominously): "If I cannot persuade you, he will compel you to go."
 |
| I'm curious if Strahd ever really "compels" the party to go. |
I figure we're going to have to walk there along the Old Svalich Road North, but he says that a carriage is waiting to take us to Castle Ravenloft. We demur long enough to rest and memorize spells, then accept the invitation.
A cut scene tells us how a horse-drawn carriage conveys us through the night to the castle. A cinematic shows us crossing a drawbridge.
 |
| I wonder who does the carriage manufacturing around here. |
"Everything will be fine; we're guests, after all," Somers says as we arrive. "Yet there is in this air something which brings sweat to the palms." I'd love to believe this is her "Detect Evil" ability activating, but I suspect every party gets this dialogue. We find ourselves in the castle's entry hall, full of armor, tapestries, paintings, and a (probably) red carpet.
No sooner than we have opened a door than another cut scene takes over. Lord Strahd von Zarovich (which turns out to have the accent on the second syllable, not the first) greets us in front of a dining room table. He presents himself as an articulate and debonair lord, with no signs that he's a chaotic evil vampire. I suppose it's not possible to go into this game ignorant of his true nature, but it would have been more fun if he hadn't been shown on the game box in vampiric form.
 |
| He looks like George Hamilton crossed with Laurence Olivier. |
Strahd's speech is long, adequately but not brilliantly voice-acted. "No road leads out of this mist-bound universe," he warns. "The land entraps many; its ruler is no exception." He claims to have therefore devoted his life to the entrapped people. His latest pursuit involves the study of dimensional gateways (I thought there was no way out?). He says there is a portal in the caverns west of Barovia, near the Ivlis River, and he'd like us to investigate. The party dines with him and takes his carriage back to Barovia. I was rather hoping that we'd get to explore more of the castle.
I assume the way to the caverns is through the western exit, so naturally I take the northern one. It is indeed the same road that we took by carriage, and it takes us back to Strahd's castle, although its gates are shut and locked. Other than a bunch of worgs and the experience points they convey, we don't find anything in this area.
 |
| One does not simply walk into Ravenloft. |
Back in Barovia, I'm just about to head to the Wooded Area when I remember that the Vistani offered to lead us to his camp if we were willing to be blindfolded. We talk to him again and agree. He warns us it will take a day or so to reach the location. Blindfolded, I think it would take a day or so to even get out of the city.
 |
| An inviting scene. |
He leads us to a circle of wagons surrounding a fire. "Madam Eva awaits," the game tells us, as if we've heard of her before. A cut scene draws us into her wagon. All we learn, however, is that her tarroka deck is short one card, stolen by another gypsy, perhaps at Strahd's behest. A few seconds later, we're back at the tavern in Barovia.
 |
| What's he going to do with one card? |
The Wooded Area West of Barovia is the last place left to us, so that's where we go. Well, first I go back to the Old Svalich Road South, as I have come to regret expelling Velika instead of Fhalken. Unfortunately, I can't find Velika where I originally picked her up. Thus, west it is.
The Wooded Area is full of skeletal bats and werewolves, neither of which is terribly difficult. I feel like combats in this game have been relatively easy in general, facilitated by the relative ease of finding a place to rest and fully heal. I'm not even sure why this works given that my paladin cannot cast cleric spells yet. I thought D&D rules were that absent spellcasting, characters could only heal one hit point per 24-hour period. Nevertheless, about nine hours seems to be enough to get everyone back to full health.
 |
| Spooky, scary. |
We find the entrance to the caves on the far western wall. The masked woman from the tavern, Irmgarde, waits next to it. She mentioned that she was trying to find a way out of here, and apparently she's heard of the dimensional portal within. We suggest once again that she join us, and this time she accepts. We send Fhalken back home. I guess it's a good thing we didn't waste time having Velika rejoin us.
 |
| I'm not sure what she means by her first line. |
Irmgarde is a Level 6 neutral good half-elf cleric. With her and Glorianna, I feel like I have a complete party. Thus, when I discover a chaotic neutral human mage named Ryszard brewing potions in a nearby building, I decline to let him join us even though he's one level higher than Glorianna.
 |
| I'm not sure I want a party member who's mad with anything. |
We enter the caverns. There's a spinning portal-looking thing right in the main entrance, and at first I think that's the portal we've been sent to find. It turns out it's just a barrier that we have to dissolve by pressing the Seal of Entrance that Strahd gave us to a plaque on the wall.
 |
| This seemed too easy at first. |
On the other side, blocking the corridor, we meet a fighter named Vladislav who says he "shares our goals" and offers to join the party. "You will come to know me as a man of constant resolution." He elaborates that he is also seeking a portal to "a kingdom known as Elturel," which the Burgomaster worries thieves might try to use. That's where we're from! I don't like his attitude, and I like my current party composition, but the bastard is literally blocking the way forward and won't budge. As I soon discover, I can't take him, then drop him, because he returns to the place I found him. I thus reluctantly have to get rid of Glorianna temporarily. She says she'll go to the tavern.
 |
| He looks a bit like Strahd. Is it Strahd? Did everyone know that except me? |
Vladislav is a Level 7 chaotic neutral half-elf male fighter. He comes with platemail, which I give to Quill. I have to arm him with a quarterstaff so that he'll be able to do some good from the rear rank. I soon find a halberd to replace it with.
It takes me about three hours to get through the caves. I have a block shortly after I start exploring because in order to make progress, I have to open some barriers by pulling ropes on the walls. The problem is—and here my colorblindness might be screwing me again—I can't really see the ropes against the backgrounds. I only find the first one because, having hit nothing but dead ends, I end up both clicking and trying to walk through every wall.
 |
| Does that look like a pull rope to you? |
There are ultimately four keys scattered about, all needed to open a series of those spinning barriers. There are also teleporters, illusory walls, and spinners aplenty, plus a couple of corridors where lightning bolts and fireballs come shooting at the party. One of them kills Irmgarde at one point, and Quill remarks that without her, we have no hope of entering the portal in the caverns. I didn't realize she was that key.
 |
| A lightning bolt is about to kill us. One of those barriers spins to our left. |
The floors are so scattered with scrolls, potions, wands, and weapons that my inventory is soon bursting. I start using things just to clear some space.
 |
| An Oil of Fiery Burning damages a bone golem. |
The level is swarming with skeletons, punctuated by the occasional bone golem. The skeletons are trivial; the bone golems are deadly. I keep dying at their hands, reloading, and then killing them at a distance with Oils of Fiery Burning. "Turn Undead" turns out to be a single-enemy spell, though it refreshes quickly. It completely kills the enemy when it works. All the characters hit Level 7 in the caverns.
 |
| Somers takes a mace to the face. |
We find a mage's scroll at one point. It's written from the perspective of someone trying to escape from Ravenloft, convinced that there are portals that can be opened with various rituals (including killing a wereraven beneath a full moon). It ends by wondering: "Lifting the cures of Alabain, acquiring Trimia's Catalogue of Outer Plane Artifacts, finding the date of the Great Alignment of Southern Stars, which of these holds the most promise?"
 |
| There was this weird pile of clerics' gear in one cavern. None of it was magical. |
We find the portal in the southwestern part of the level, behind a couple of secret doors. We walk into it. I don't understand what happens, but we find ourselves back in the Wooded Area with Irmgarde and Vladislav both gone, their stuff piled on the ground in front of us. Neither are back at the entrance. Did they jack our portal? If not, why did we not all appear in the same place?
 |
| Confronting the portal. |
In any event, I'm glad to be out of the caverns. I have not enjoyed this game's approach to dungeons nearly as much as its approach to other areas. The dungeons have been too cramped and confusing. I did forget until the end of this session that the player can write annotations on the automap, though, which might have made the place easier to navigate.
 |
| This was a big map. |
We head back to town and go to the Burgomaster's to enlist Glorianna again. He tells us that she's gone to the tavern, where we find her and convince her to re-join us. With no more cleric, at least for now, we go to the house of Tatian the fighter and ask her to join. She's only Level 4, so I hope not to have to keep her for long. We then return to the forest to pick up the various items. I just realized typing this that we could have enlisted Ryszard instead. Maybe I'll do that when the next session begins.
 |
| Is she any relation to the Tatyana who plunged to her death? |
While in the Wooded Area, I happen to notice a cave I missed during my initial explorations. So I may pop in there next before . . . I don't know . . . returning to Strahd? Oh! I forgot to tell you that I found a Church Vestibule Key in the caverns, so that's a potential path forward. What do you think: Should I spend some time in the next entry comparing what this game has shown us to the original model, or should I save that for the end?
Time so far: 11 hours
****
10/14/2026
It should have be Țuicǎ. That final ǎ is pronounced like a French “eu”, not like a a.
ReplyDeletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C8%9Auic%C4%83
It is always bland. The good alcoholic brevage of Romania is the cherry-based Vişinatǎ
Else, nothing to say beyond “good article”.
*should have been.
DeleteWordpress does not support Romanian diacretics so the comment above looks weird.
Everytime you see ǎ, I meant â but with the accent in the other direction :).
The stress thing is funny: in Serbian/Croatian, the stress would fall on the first syllable. With a stress on the second syllable is how it would be pronounced in Russian. But: all Russian last names ending in -ovich (not to be confused with male patronymics that also often end in ovich) are Jewish. So Strahd's ethnic identity gets more and more complicated.
ReplyDeleteVK, "ovic"/"owitz"/"owicz" are standard Polish last name ending; "ovic" is present in Serbian and Croatian. Perhaps it is considered Jewish in russia because russia got pretty much all of its Jewish population during partitions of Poland (hence Pale of Settlement and the like), but there is absolutely nothing Jewish about this ending.
DeleteI think I switched to gridded movement for this game and never looked back. I think I found navigating the dungeons much easier that way.
ReplyDeleteMost NPCs, but not all, have a place to go. Either they had their own place in town or spot where you found them or in the tavern. Some will take residence somewhere in the city. Velika should still be around somewhere.
ReplyDeleteI believe Velika vf va obebivn vs lbh qba'g erpehvg ure jura lbh svefg zrrg; ohg fur qvfnccrnef vs lbh qb erpehvg ure naq yngre qvfzvff ure.
DeleteVelika has a home in Barovia either way; you can always get her back. Same applies to Fhalken.
DeleteI would save the module comparison until the end - spoiler alert, you’ll be headed back to the castle, which is the meat of the module anyway.
ReplyDeleteYour paladin’s lay on hands ability would speed up healing substantially, but it’s only twice their level every eight hours - way better than 1 hp/day but should still take more than 9 hours or so to get to full.
I think that you need to come from that Ultima background to actively appreciate the number of interactive, but otherwise completely useless, items. When you start at different games where most items that you can put into the inventory has some sort of use, it is too easy to either fill up on complete junk or miss some genuinely useful items among that junk, like I did with oil flasks in Ultima 8.
ReplyDeleteI do agree that sometimes it gets very illogical (particularly if you skip a quest or something like that) when you suddenly find a singular "fork" that can be picked up among seemingly thousands of forks you encountered before, but I think that from gameplay standpoint it is better than the alternative.
The Divinity: Original Sin games have an odd design around random items. almost every object can be picked up and moved around, and most are useless, but some are important and are usually a different color, or sparkly, or something. However, on higher difficulties, you really need money to buy better gear, and the easiest way to get it is by picking up and selling all the random junk that's light enough to carry. Forks (and knives) in particular are very valuable for their weight and they should all be picked up and sold. Picking up all those forks and plates gets pretty tiresome. You can do this in Baldur's Gate III also, but I usually found I had plenty of money in that game.
DeleteElder Scrolls games also have lots of junk you can pick up by my memory of those games is that almost everything is basically worthless.
15 gold is _ridiculously_ cheap for a potion that gets you out of Ravenloft, of all places; this suggests to me that the gypsy is selling snake oil.
ReplyDeleteLore-wise, that portal also shouldn't exist; but it makes sense for NPCs to hope for such a portal and want to investigate it. And as your entry shows, indeed the portal doesn't take you out of Ravenloft.
Naq lbh ner vaqrrq pbeerpg gung iynqvfyni vf fgenuq.
The potion doesn't take you out of Ravenloft. It allows you to enter the Mists without dying when Strahd has sealed his Domain.
DeleteNow exiting is almost impossible while it's sealed. With you returning to Barovia when you finally decide to leave the Mists. But at least they're no longer lethal.
Also, the Vistani MIGHT be able to leave Barovia with others. The Vistani are one of the few groups that Strahd does as little to mess with as possible, even as they often serve him.
Also, methods of leaving Ravenloft do exist. But they're extremely rare. And, as mentioned in that note, often difficult to open.
In (A)D&D Editions 1-3.5, the Vistani do indeed have a potion that protects people from the mists; it's part of their deal with Strahd, and they won't sell it to people on his no-fly list.
DeleteIn 5e, it's a placebo instead. Because nothing says improved cultural sensitivity like changing the "gypsies" from "somewhat creepy but offer legitimate magical services" to "they'll take your money and leave you to choke to death."
Somehow, I got it into my head that the mists were what separated Ravenloft from the "real world" and if we just walked through them, we'd be out. I think there's an extent to which the introductory cinematic supports this interpretation.
DeleteThe lack of currency in this game already made me think the potion was a red herring, though. It would be funny, though, if it were really the game's main quest to assemble 15 gold pieces, buy a potion, and walk away.
You do leave Ravenloft by going through the mist; but that doesn't mean that going through the mist makes you leave Ravenloft.
DeleteIt's Dreamforge/Event Horizon game: Coins do exist, they're just treated like quest/puzzle items. If you remember The Summoning, it was the same there - and will be the same for all Dreamforge games. In some of them, you can occasionally get some extra change to spend on consumables, but I've never played Ravenloft for very long, so I don't know if it applies here.
DeleteThere are two types of mists. There are the teleporting mists that brought you there. They're not under Strahd's control. If anyone who is not allowed to leave tries to walk through them, they come back out an inch from where they entered. That includes Strahd. What controls them? It's a mystery. The Vistani are able to travel through them somehow. How they do this is a mystery even to Strahd.
DeleteThere is the poisonous fog around the village of Barovia. This is under Strahd's control. When he wants to close the borders of his domain, he can will it to encircle the entire domain as well. Anyone who breathes it chokes, anyone who tries to pass through it will never live to reach the mists that Strahd doesn't control--unless they have a potion only Vistani know how to brew. The Vistani you spoke to is offering to sell you that potion, which will let you travel freely within Barovia, including to areas blocked by deadly fog. He is not offering you help actually leaving.
But Barovia isn't physically adjacent to the Prime Material Plane. If the power behind the mists decides to let you leave--and the mists can appear in front of you anywhere, not just at the border of Barovia--then they might take you back to Faerun, where your characters came from in this game, or they might kick you out in Athas (the Dark Sun setting) or Oerth (Greyhawk). Or they might go "psyche!" and drop you in front of Castle Ravenloft. Possibly even other darklord's domains, who knows?
"OK, we're on Athas. How do we leave Athas and return to Barovia? Anyone knows? ..... Please?"
Delete> Somehow, I got it into my head that the mists were what separated Ravenloft from the "real world" and if we just walked through them, we'd be out. I think there's an extent to which the introductory cinematic supports this interpretation.
DeleteThat's exactly what it is, except you can't "just" walk out. You'll get lost in the mists, or turned around and find yourself re-entering Barovia somewhere else, or choking on poison fog, or... They run on nightmare logic.
But the unspoken promise of Ravenloft is that IF you can do something truly heroic and earn your freedom, you'll be able to walk into the mista and actually come out the other side.
> There are two types of mists. There are the teleporting mists that brought you there...
I think that phrasing is too mechanical for Ravenloft's nightmare logic. Strahd is both the ruler of Barovia - in a spiritual sense, like the Fisher King - and trapped there by his own curse. So he can exert his will on the mists surrounding his domain, poisoning them to choke his enemies or filling the mists with ghostly wolves to hunt them. But the one thing he can't do is leave. So he can't lift the mists completely, and he can't provide anyone else a way through them. All, except the Vistani, are trapped.
I appreciate the clarifications! What is the canonical reason that Strahd doesn't just kidnap the Vistani and torture them one by one until one of them reveals how to get out?
DeleteI actually really like the story behind the Vistani in Curse of Strahd! (It's too bad their actual appearances in the adventure don't live up to it - after the intro, it uses an incredible number of really offensive Romani stereotypes.)
DeleteI don't know if this was in the original AD&D Ravenloft or added later. I get the impression it might have originally just been an unexplained mystery. I'll rot13 it for anyone that wants to leave it a secret:
Jura ur jnf n lbhat naq fgvyy aboyr cevapr, Fgenuq qrsraqrq Onebivn sebz na vainqvat nezl. Va bar onggyr ur jnf arneyl qrsrngrq - uvf sbeprf ebhgrq naq ur jnf teniryl vawherq. N onaq bs jnaqrevat Ivfgnav sbhaq uvz naq ahefrq uvz onpx gb urnygu. Gunaxf gb gurve nvq ur jnf noyr gb tngure uvf fpnggrerq gebbcf naq qevir onpx gur vainqref orsber gurl tnvarq n sbbgubyq.
Va tengvghqr, Fgenuq znqr n ibj bs sevraqfuvc gb gur Ivfgnav: xabjvat gung gurl jrer n jnaqrevat crbcyr jub inyhrq gurve abznqvp yvsrfgylyr ohg snprq ovtbgel va znal pbhagevrf, ur fjber n fbyrza bngu gung gur Ivfgnav jbhyq nyjnlf or jrypbzr va Onebivn, naq gung gurl jbhyq erznva serr gb pbzr naq tb sebz uvf qbznva nf gurl cyrnfrq.
Lrnef yngre, nsgre Fgenuq'f urneg jnf cbvfbarq ol wrnybhfl naq ur pbzzvggrq gur hasbetvirnoyr pevzr gung phefrq uvf qbznva, uvf bngu fgvyy ubyqf: va Onebivn gur Ivfgnav nybar ner serr.
The details about Ravenloft and the Vistani varied a lot between editions, but at least in the second edition version of Ravenloft, which was the one this game was based on (and was the best one anyway)...
DeleteStrahd isn't just trapped in Ravenloft the same way as other characters are. As the previous commenter said, Strahd is a domain lord; he's tied to his specific domain and can't leave it under any circumstances, even to go to another domain in Ravenloft. If Barovia's borders are open, most characters are able to walk out of Barovia, if only to enter an adjacent domain that's likely to be just as bad, but Strahd can't even do that; he's very much tied to his own domain. Even the Vistani likely wouldn't be able to help him get out.
(Well... technically saying he couldn't leave under any circumstances may be a bit of an overstatement; a small handful of adventures did involve domain lords getting out of their domains, and notably the first part of the climactic adventure that was meant to kind of close out second-edition D&D and transition to third edition did involve a domain lord escaping his domain (Vecna—yes, that Vecna; he was a Ravenloft domain lord for at least part of 2E); but certainly a domain lord escaping was an extremely unusual event that required convoluted special circumstances, and not something even the Vistani would be able to pull off routinely... and Strahd was knowledgeable enough to be aware of that.)
(Also worth noting, though, that even the Vistani couldn't necessarily just wander in and out of Ravenloft whenever they wanted. In second edition, the Vistani were left pretty mysterious, and while there were hints that they did know more about traversing the mists than others and some of them might even be able to leave Ravenloft altogether, how they did so wasn't really defined, and it didn't seem it was something they did often, so it's entirely likely that even a non-domain-lord who tried to torture a Vistani into telling them how to get out wouldn't have any luck, if it's just something a few Vistani could inherently do and not some simple trick they could pass on to outsiders.)
DeleteI guess that makes sense - I'm only really familiar with the original module and the 5e version, where Barovia was presented as a single isolated domain that was once a normal country in a normal world, but is now cut off by the mists. But in the 2e boxed campaign setting version, when there were a bunch of domains with their own flavour of horror, you want characters to be able to travel beween them to experience the whole setting. They just can't leave the whole collection of domains...
DeleteOh, even in second edition most of the domains—including Barovia—were once normal places in normal worlds before they were pulled into Ravenloft. But yeah, instead of remaining isolated from each other like in the 4E/5E version of the setting, some of the domains in Ravenloft were put into clusters and did share borders (though there were other domains that even in 2E were isolated and could only be reached through the mists), and there was a lot of trade and politics going on between domains.
DeleteRe: "Strahd doesn't just kidnap and torture the Vistani": in addition to what Joe wrote above, a strong reason is that Strahd is _Lawful_ Evil, not chaotic evil. He's not The Joker or some psychopath that does whatever he wants and throws murderous tantrums on a whim.
DeleteRather, he has his own code of honor and can be bargained with. To me, that makes him more interesting as a villain.
Strahd was a noble and a warlord. He fought in several wars and was getting worn down by them. Then he became the ruler of his land, and part of that was a ritual symbolically binding him to the land he ruled.
DeleteHis younger brother then came to live with him, with his fiancee. Strahd became jealous of his brother's youth, and fell into lust with the fiancee.
Sometime right before the wedding, and entity Strahd only called Death made a deal with him. Strahd would gain power, eternal life, and Tatyana, and all it would cost him was his brother.
Strahd killed his brother and drank his blood. Tatyana fled from him, and eventually threw herself off a cliff to her death to escape (though Strahd always tells this differently, the few times he talks about it). Strahd was then killed by his guards.
Due to this severe betrayal, his link to his land, and his pact, he rose back up and Barovia was swallowed by the Mists.
Barovia was the only Domain for a long time. The land was normal, except for the fog surrounding it at the border. Anyone that walked into it would wander around until they decided to leave the Mists, then quickly find themselves crossing the Barovian border somewhere.
Strahd couldn't cross said border. But he could seal it for a while by turning it deadly.
Eventually other Darklords got their own Domains. Usually by some particularly heinous crime (by their standards, usually some form of betrayal). Most, though not all, weren't in the demiplane when said crime happened. Some of those Domains were surrounded by the Mists, but some bordered other Domains. Said borders rarely changed. And eventually a large group, including Barovia, became the core of the demiplane.
There usually weren't Mist at the connected borders unless the Domain was sealed by it's Darklord. Though not all Darklords could seal their Domain, and most had a unique method of doing so. And the Mists could appear outside the Demiplane, capturing small groups or occasionally small villages. Larger areas were usually only claimed when the Mists also claimed a new Darklord.
the Darklords were given what they asked for, including their Domain, as a reward for their crimes. But they were also cursed to never leave their Domain, and to never get what they wanted. Tatyana is reborn in Barovia time after time, but Strahd NEVER gets her. Either she kills herself, or dies before Strahd can change her into a vampire (which takes three days).
One Darklord was a lich, an undead wizard devoted to learning all they could about magic. But could never learn anything new at all about magic as his curse. And the Vlad the Impaler expy wanted to be a respected warlord, who could no longer lead an army (trapped in his Domain) and was considered pathetic by his neighbors. And Vecna was a demigod trapped there, where the only Domain that bordered his was ruled by Kas the Bloody-Handed. Said vampire was his ex-lieutenant who cost him his eye and hand.
Vecna and Lord Soth were the only Darklords that managed to escape. Vecna because he was only barely contained and finally broke free and Lord Soth because he actually managed to grow beyond his punishment. Most Darklords being specifically unable to be redeemed.
Lord Soth escaped over a copyright dispute between the owners of D&D and the writers of Dragonlance. It's very meta.
DeleteVecna escaped to Planescape and used that setting to wreck the multiverse in an attempt to ascend to godhood. This is the in-universe reason why 3rd edition D&D works differently from 2nd edition; and Vecna is part of the Grayhawk Pantheon now.
Technically, there are at least one or two more darklords who managed to "escape" their domains, after a fashion.
DeleteThe vampire Duke Gundar was the darklord of the domain of Gundarak until he was staked and killed, his domain then being absorbed by the neighboring domains of Invidia and Barovia. Much later, though, he was revived when someone removed the stake from his body, and now he's around and active again, but no longer a darklord.
The werewolf Nathan Timothy was the darklord of Arkandale. But his son Alfred outdid him in evil, and the darklords ended up rescinding Nathan's darklordship and letting Arkandale be absorbed into Alfred's domain of Verbrek. (This one's a little iffy, though, because Nathan Timothy still seems to be bound to his boat, and you could make a case that his boat now counts as a sort of pocket domain with him as the darklord, though nothing in canon explicitly says that.)
Whether or not these count as "escaping" is I suppose debatable since they weren't due to the darklords' conscious efforts (though then again neither was Soth's), but they are other examples of former darklords losing their ties to their domains. (I think Vecna is the only example of a darklord intentionally escaping through their own successful plan, though Azalin, the lich darklord Drawde mentioned, came kind of close, and is still trying.)
They actually just retconned D&D. I remember discussions by the devs at the time stating this, though with more words. The Vecna adventures were just the climax to 2nd edition.
DeleteWhile they did this again in the change to 4th edition, they specifically ruined (as in it was in ruins, for characters to explore) Forgotten Realms to explain the setting-specific changes.
Then ignored most of the D&D lore with further changes. Focusing on FR so much that they changed the history of famous characters. Like merging two entirely different characters into one person so they could focus the Greyhawk character into FR.
I would appreciate a comparison with the module at this earlier stage. I feel like doing it now would allow you to get a little more granular and detailed with it, which I would like, but if you feel like that's too big of a distraction from playing the game I understand.
ReplyDeleteThis is the first time I've tried to play a game along with you and I must confess I'm struggling to get into this one. It's the combat; pseudo real time combat in a blobber has always confounded me. I feel like all I can figure out to do is to spam the mouse until something dies and I feel like I have no idea what I'm doing. If anyone wants to give me some tips on how to understand the combat in this game I would really appreciate it lol
Well, it's still D&D combat. Whenever you click one of the weapon buttons, the game internally rolls a die, adds your character's attack bonus, and compares it to the monster's armor class. This is why fighters (who have a higher attack bonus) are better frontliners than wizards.
DeleteThe enemies do the same to you, so it helps to boost your own armor class by putting on better armor and/or having a good dexterity score.
If you hit, the game rolls for damage (for which e.g. swords do more damage than daggers), adds the character's strength bonus, and subtracts it from the enemy's health points.
Does that help? You do in fact win combat by repeatedly clicking on the attack buttons, but it helps if you plan this by picking your weapons, and supporting yourself by spells (e.g. the Bless spell improves your chance to hit, whereas Protection from Evil improves your armor class).
The weapons have individual cooldowns. Dual wielding is also allowed but rangers get a bonus in light Armour. When they are ready you can strike at the enemy. You will need to use special abilities like turn undead or spells. Before combat you might need to cast buffing spells (e. g. bless, aid, prayer) or protection spells (e. g. Blur, stoneskin, negative plane protection). You might need to put a healing potion into a character's hand and use it. You might need to go to the inventory screen and switch positions of characters. Put the badly wounded in the back. This you do with the mouse hand while you may slowly move with the num block with the other hand.
DeleteSorry, Radiant, I should've been more specific. I know all of that--I'm an avid ttrpg player and have played plenty of D&D games. I know how the combat works on paper. What gets me is the "blobber" combat. At least when it's turn-based, I know which of my party members is attacking and I know what they're all doing. I can't wrap my head around who is attacking when in this game; the real-time blobber combat is just so weird. I don't know if when I click the enemy if all my party members are attacking, or if I have to first click on which party member I want to actually perform the attack every time, which feels incredibly cumbersome.
DeleteOh right. In that case: you never click on the monster at all. Rather, you right-click on the weapon, and then the party member holding that weapon will attack the nearest enemy. And the weapon will turn gray for a few seconds, indicating cooldown. Right-click on all weapons in sequenece, then repeat when they are no longer gray.
Delete(in some blobbers it's left-click instead of right-click, but the same general idea applies)
I also found the weapon buttons cumbersome, so I switched to only clicking on the monsters. This cycles through ready attacks in the party, left to right, with each click. In this way I could make up to six attacks within a second or two of engaging a monster, typically killing before it gets a second or even first attack. (6 attacks = 2 each from 2x dual wielding front line attackers + 1 each from back line attackers with range/reach weapons)
DeleteDepending on the strength or number of monsters, I would then either: back up and reengage when my party was ready to attack again, or simply stand there clicking monsters like crazy and absorbing their meager attacks, maneuvering slightly to keep monsters in front of the party.
In this way, combat became a click-fest and a bit boring. Almost like an action-rpg but not nearly as satisfying as Diablo, for example. Even Ultima Underworld’s awkward combat controls felt more immersive than combat in this Ravenloft game.
I think that you should at some point should compare how different fully 3D CRPG's (or games aspiring to be one) handled combat and exploration in this new dimension. So far we have:
ReplyDelete1. Ultima Underworlds, where I would call combat pretty lacking, but where exploration was at least somewhat fun
2. Betrayal at Krondor, which had great open world exploration (to the extent allowed by its engine), "meh" dungeons and turn-based combat
3. Shadow Caster, which tried to have real-time shooter mechanics to improve Ultima Underworld experience, but was tied to flat levels
4. Arena, which tried to do everything in 3D, including portions of exploration
5. Ravenloft, which I haven't played
6. Ultima VIII, which, although sprite-based, is a 3rd person 3D game for all practical purposes, even if the end product was limited by technology of its time. But, yes, I think it qualifies as a genuine attempt to answer a question of "How do we marry RPG's and 3D"?
For the purpose of the argument, I leave out blobbers and clearly inferior attempts, like Realms of Arcania II or Drakkhen.
If we go off 1994's list, there'll be Robinson's Requiem (even though it is not really an RPG) and Menzoberranzan; perhaps you could do a special posting about how different RPG's tried to handle 3D gameplay, and what worked and what didn't?
You appear to be conflating first-person perspective games and games with vertical movement. Both are technically "3D" in some sense but they're clearly not the same.
DeleteUU and Ultima 8 have vertical movement. In fact, so does Ultima 7; and this approach goes back to adventure/puzzle games from around 1987.
BOK, SC, Arena and Ravenloft have maps that are entirely flat, with no Z-axis. This goes back to blobbers like Dungeon Master, except their rotation is no longer limited to 90-degree turns. Most of them still have maps where everything is square.
All of these have "portions of exploration" in 3D; I don't know why you're singling out Arena for that. Thankfully, Chet is already comparing how these games handle combat and exploration, because that's all in the GIMLET.
If the criterion for "3D" is merely "non-gridded first-person exploration," then AmberMoon would also qualify.
DeleteI think RG is onto something here. As we get further into the 1990s, it's clear that innovations in graphic quality and engine technology allow for greater possibilities in first-person immersion. What did some developers choose to emphasize? What just doesn't work? Can we have truly immersive exploration if we yank the player out of the world and onto a separate screen for purposes of combat? We might quibble over some of the details, but I think RG's basic thesis--that a special topic entry is called for--makes sense. Maybe not just yet, but eventually.
DeleteI particularly liked your call out of earlier entries here. Whole I think EoB weird might have some superior individual assets, this game has better presentation overall.
DeleteAlso you mention immersive environments but there's clearly a split - immersive visuals and immersive interactions. Seeing nice rooms and furniture helps, but when clicking on everything does nothing, then it's hard to feel it's there
@Delfayne, I was thinking more about gameplay transitions.
DeleteAs I understand early D&D, it was fought on a grid in turn-based mode. As a result, as long as the game stayed on the grid in a turn-based mode, designers had a huge crutch, since you already know how to deal with the situation. What's more, as you rely on DM to narrate what you see, going from room of textual descriptions to room of textual descriptions that include any possible skill check is a logical proposition.
Now, all of a sudden, if you switch to the game engine where you see things rather than have things narrated to you, it works very differently. Even if you keep the turn-based third person combat convention (which is not what all games did), rather than have narrator say "You are ambushed by goblins in a dark room" you suddenly need to figure out how things would work: do you show goblins in first person, how any observation checks (if any) would work, can the party escape the encounter, and so on. And, most importantly, how this would play.
Things get even more complicated if instead you switch to full real time first person perspective, because you still need to figure out how the party would work, whether you want a party in the first place, how things would move - and do all that without having over a decade of prior RPG knowledge to help you, since you are explicitly breaking up with old conventions.
I would say that the person was long and painful. The transition clearly started in 1993; the transition was clearly complete by 2007, when Fallout 3 came out (I would say that it was definitely a first person RPG); depending on what you think, you may pick an arbitrary game in between to say "No, this is where things definitely started working out in 3D", from perhaps Daggerfall (which I haven't played) to System Shock (which I played only briefly and long ago) to VTM:B (which I played extensively, but which, I feel, could be played too much as a shooter).
A similar transition was going on with 3rd person 3D RPG's - but those would mostly be ahead, because the technology was not there. You may think of Ultima VIII as an early example, or disregard it completely - perhaps, it is too convoluted to add it to this argument.
A minor note: early D&D was commonly (but by no means universally) played in "theatre of the mind", so without battlemaps or miniatures. This style of play maps reasonably well to MUDs.
DeleteIn a way, it's surprising that there are still so many d&d games being made by 1994. Clearly crpgs of all different kinds are cross-pollinating and influencing each other so that they resemble each other more than they do any tabletop rpg. (I also am skeptical that the paradigmatic, romanticized, freeform, long term D&D campaign was really happening around the country in the 80s, beyond a few hundred outliers. Running a game of D&D requires so much time and commitment from so many people.)
DeleteThe extent to which this game is trying to capture the experience of playing the module, as opposed to its content is an interesting question. Who was the intended audience and how much experience were they thought to have? Did its creators think this game would be more d&d like in a meaningful way than, say, a gold box game?
Not technically the 80s, but I was running a freeform, long-term D&D campaign in the early 90s, although one with only two or three regular players. (Well, I think the campaign did begin in the 80s, but just barely.) Although I guess it's possible I was an outlier.
DeleteCollege students have a lot of free time and will run yearlong D&D campaigns, also back in the 90s.
DeleteKeep in mind there was a lot less competition for your time and attention back then. No streaming services. No online multiplayer video games. No web.
DeleteAdditional comment: D&D acquired a heavy grid focus in its rules at the turn of the millennium, around the same time WOTC got into the licensed pre painted miniatures business. This started as a top down push from WOTC but was ultimately successful in transforming the play culture.
DeleteDid you miss a cavern in the wooded area west of barovia? gurer'f n jrerjbys va gurer.
ReplyDeleteI have not enjoyed this game's approach to dungeons nearly as much as its approach to other areas.
ReplyDeleteGood news: there’s some better dungeons yet in the game, that don’t feel as cramped.
Bad news: there’s some cramped tedious dungeons yet in the game too.
The auto map is great, but I wonder if the devs recognized its utility and decided “hey this auto mapping means we oughta create some CRAZY dungeons.”
The title of this entry reminds me of Carman's 90's Christian... "music?" video "A Witch's Invitation." Ironically, some of the many evil things in the witch's house - among horoscopes and a black cat - are Dungeons & Dragons games.
ReplyDeleteVladislav...
ReplyDeleteOh, baby, don't hurt me
Don't hurt me, no more
visible smile was produced
DeleteNice one
DeleteIndeed!
DeleteSpiderweb games classically had junk such as forks, plates and spoons that you could pick up to your heart's content, but were useless and worth nothing. Occasionally a quest might require you to find eight picks.
ReplyDeleteThere's also at least one adventure game (Dreamweb) that lets you pick up basically all the cups and cutlery in the house even though there's no practical reason to. If done right (which in my opinion Ultima 6 and 7 do), this approach can really add to immersion.
DeleteDefinitely naming my next tabletop character Church Vestibule.
ReplyDeleteSome randoms comments:
ReplyDeleteIIRC, "Ravenloft" is both the name of the setting and Strahd's castle, but I think nobody uses that word to refer to the world in which they live, so I think all those references to "Ravenloft" in books and dialogue should be to "Barovia" (which it is both the name of a city and the domain which Strahd rules). So, the phrase "the following rumors are to be stamped from the minds of the burgomaesters, boyars and peasants of the villages of Ravenloft" should be "of the villages of Barovia".
Glorianna comes from the domain of Sithicus, and the Dark Lord of that domain is Lord Soth, a character from the "Dragonlance" setting. Although the majority of the Dark Lords come from unnamed domains, a few are from the Forgotten Realms setting (which could explain why you found a character talking about the god Helm, maybe he comes from a Forgotten Realms-based domain where some people still pray to it pantheon of gods), and I think there was one from Dark-Sun (Kalidnay).
I wonder if Glorianna's design it is partially inspired by that of Storm (in its original Dave Cokrum's design) from the X-Men. Also, looking at characters like Glorianna, Velika, Irmgarde and even Fhalken, it seens to me that there is greater NPC ethnic diversity in this game than in previous DnD games.
"Is she any relation to the Tatyana who plunged to her death?". I think it is supposed to be, but it has absolutely no relevance to the plot, and it is just an easter egg.
"I don't understand what happens, but we find ourselves back in the Wooded Area with Irmgarde and Vladislav both gone". This is a very confusing moment, and I wonder if there was originally supposed to be some cutscene here. When I played this part, after crossing the portal, one of my remaining character immediately said "He's gone! That rascal gained our confidence, then vanished without leaving so much of a footfall on this side of the portal", which seems to imply that Vladislav jumped through the portal before the rest of the party. My guess was that Vladislav was a disguised Strahd trying to find a way to escape Barovia, and he was allied with Irmgarde or, more probably, he caught Irmgarde and crossed the portal with her, and when he found that the portal was useless to him, he left the place before the rest of the party arrived.
"I think it is supposed to be, but it has absolutely no relevance to the plot, and it is just an easter egg."
DeleteNot just an easter egg. If you have Tatian in the party when you meet "Vladislav", he is distracted to the point of almost forgetting speaking with the PCs and starts behaving like he is smitten with her. I really wonder what happens if you have Tatian in the party at the end of the game.
Regarding the confusing portal: since the characters on the left of the GUI are the front rank, what makes the most sense (to me) is that PC 1 and 2 step thru the portal, and the other two don't follow.
DeleteAssuming Vladislav IS Strahd, he then cast Teleport to get back to his castle; the spell can bring Irngarde along even if she doesn't want to. That's the only way that they can make "not even a footfall".
Why there is a portal that just leads back outside the caves, I have no idea. Outside of Planescape, such arbitrary portals don't really fit D&D lore, nor is there a high enough level wizard in Barovia to make one (except Strahd himself).
> I really wonder what happens if you have Tatian in the party at the end of the game.
DeleteROT13: Abguvat unccraf; hasbeghangryl, gurer vf ab ernpgvba.
Nor does it make any sense why Strahd sent the party to the cave. Him sending them in first as guinea pigs would have made sense, but that’s not what happened.
DeleteIt simply is not explained in the game. I think that the confusing moment may have been by design, although being not that well executed does make it a bit frustrating. My speculation is that (rot13) Fgenuq, qvfthvfrq nf Iynqvfyni, gnxrf gur cnegl ba n qrgbhe ur xabjf yrnqf abjurer, naq frvmrf gur bccbeghavgl gb ryvzvangr Veztneqr gb cerirag ure sebz svaqvat n jnl bhg. Ohg gur cnegl nppvqragnyyl svaqf gur Puhepu Irfgvohyr Xrl ba gur jnl naq vf abarguryrff noyr gb haybpx shegure cebterff.
DeleteIt's also worth noting that additional things can happen at the portal depending on party configuration; as explained in my walkthrough, (rot13) Veztneqr znl or ergnvarq vs cnffvat qrnq guebhtu gur cbegny; naq Gngvna znl or creznaragyl ybfg (cerfhzrq gnxra ol Fgenuq) vs fur vf va gur cnegl ng gung cbvag.
Well, since the spoiler on Tatian is out of the bag, check [if you are not Chet, I guess] the art page 19-20 of the Ravenloft scenario book (there is also a copy in the Ravenloft universe source book iirc):
Deletehttps://archive.org/details/i-6-ravenloft/page/19/mode/2up
Re: "IIRC, 'Ravenloft' is both the name of the setting and Strahd's castle, but I think nobody uses that word to refer to the world in which they live"
DeleteTechnically, there are two instances in published second-edition Ravenloft RPG materials where NPCs refer in-character to the setting as a whole as "Ravenloft" (one in the adventure Ship of Horror and one in an adventure in the anthology Book of Crypts) ... but they're pretty early in the product line and I think can (and should) be dismissed as mistakes.
IIRC, the best-attested tearm for the setting-as-a-whole is "The Demiplane of Dread"
DeleteThe term "demiplane of dread" was only used in second edition. Even in third edition (which otherwise mostly followed up on the second edition setting) it was dropped. And in 4E and 5E, it was no longer a separate demiplane at all; it was just part of the Shadowfell.
Delete(The term's disuse in third edition was mostly due to licensing reasons. Most of the third-edition material (excluding the "Expedition to Castle Greyhawk" adventure near the end of the 3E line) was produced under license by a third-party company, and they weren't allowed to reference anything that wasn't specific to Ravenloft or referred to other D&D settings. That's why, for instance, although in second-edition the Forgotten Realms god Bane was widely worshipped in several major domains, in 3E the main god of those domains was simply called "The Lawgiver". (Soth and Vecna weren't mentioned by name in any 3E materials, either, for the same reason.) I think I remember reading once that near the end of the 3E line, one of the 3E Ravenloft developers realized that maybe there had been a misunderstanding and they would have been allowed to use the term "demiplane of dread" after all (Soth, Vecna, and Bane of course still being off-limits), but by then it was kind of too late.)
Even in 2E, though, I wouldn't call "the Demiplane of Dread" the best-attested term for the setting as a whole. The best-attested in-universe term, maybe; those few people of other planes who are aware of the place seemed to call it that. But certainly the inhabitants of the place didn't; very few of them would have any idea they were in a demiplane, and the natives didn't really seem to have a name for it; to them it was just, well, the world. Even in second-edition, "Ravenloft" was by far the most commonly used name for the setting, even if it was an out-of-universe name that wouldn't have been used by the people living there (the two aforementioned mistaken exceptions notwithstanding).
Just to note, Detect Evil (and good) does not work in this setting. Chaos and law are unaffected, but using magic to find evil is too "easy", and thus not allowed.
ReplyDelete"Unfortunately, I can't find Velika where I originally picked her up."
ReplyDeleteShe stays in one of the houses in Barovia, as is Fhalken, who also has a house.
As a side point, when I played the game, I liked to store excess items, primarily potions, at this NPCs houses. It made sense from both gaming and role-playing points of view.
When I used Turn Undead I was amused to see the developers took it literally: it made undead turn in place like a record.
ReplyDeleteThe carriage ride and dinner at an outwardly genial vampire's castle is of course straight from Dracula. Strahd's letter is a good pastiche of Stoker's. Capitalizing "Questions" really sells it.
I think that's what Turn Undead is supposed to do. It doesn't get rid of the undead unless you have at least 5(?) more hit dice than the monsters you're trying to turn.
Delete(N.B. I know a 6th-level priest in Pool of Radiance could get rid of 1st-level undead; I don't know how it works at higher levels since neither Curse nor Secret has undead. One of these days I've got to give Death Knights of Krynn a second chance...)
Turn Undead is supposed to make undead flee, not make them spin in place.
DeleteIndeed, it's "turn" as in "turn away" not "turn around".
DeleteTurn around, dark eyes...
DeleteMy experience with turning skeletons is that it either kills them outright or does nothing. If it turns them around and causes them to flee, that behavior is indistinguishable from all the running back-and-forth that enemies do anyway.
DeleteIn digital games it's usually annoying to actually chase monsters down when they run away. Especially if they run through other monsters in the process.
DeleteSo making them not actually flee, just not attack, is a QoL feature.
@Kish this made me laugh. And gave me an earworm...
DeleteYeah Turn Undead is supposed to make them turn around and flee
DeleteBut every now and then they fall apart
Is Strahd lawful or chaotic evil, some sources differs?
ReplyDeleteChaotic in the first-edition adventure, and lawful in the second-edition campaign setting and ever since.
Deletere: The write about the rumors, Strahd hasn't heard of the Streisand Effect. Admittedly it comes from an incident that happened years after the game was written, and also in an alternate universe from the game's setting, but he sure hasn't heard of it.
ReplyDeleteThe Strahdsand effect?
DeleteThis dungeon was quite exhausting and tricky. If all the dungeons in the game are like this, I might get burned out on the game.
ReplyDeleteI was surprised how much of the stuff in this game I recognized from Curse of Strahd, the recent mega-adventure that ranges all over the valley of Barovia. Stuff like finding a weird vine thing beneath a house, that I assumed would be new for that adventure and not an established bit of Ravenloft lore. But this portal quest is brand new to me.
ReplyDelete"Old Svalich Road"
ReplyDeleteI keep envisioning Lil Nas X intoning in Romani, maybe with a cimbalom accompaniment
I see you got a screenshot from the Bar Mitzvah.
ReplyDeleteBoys becoming Men
Men becoming Wolves
"I'm not sure what she means by her first line."
ReplyDeleteYou told her she should join you for safety, and she's replying that she finds the idea that she'll be any safer traveling with you laughable.