 |
| Probably not the best game of 1983, but likely the best manual cover of 1983. |
For the first time since January, it's time to discuss the next seven games on the "upcoming" list, plus a "secret eighth" that will be here sooner rather than later. When we last did this, I assumed that The Elder Scrolls: Arena would take a lot longer than it did, and also that I'd like it a lot more than I did. I correctly estimated that Realms of Arkania: Star Trail would tie me up for a while.
As a reminder, this discussion is to offer:
- Opinions about the game's RPG status. While applying your own definitions to such a discussion is fine, what really helps is if you apply mine. The FAQ (7th question) covers my definition.
- Tips for emulating the game
- Known bugs and pitfalls
- Tips for character creation
- Trivia
- Predictions for my reaction and/or the GIMLET score (without specifics that will spoil the game).
- Sources of information about the game from around the web, particularly obscure ones that I might otherwise miss during my pre-game research.
These are the next seven titles:
- Al-Qadim: The Genie's Curse (1994 | DOS | Cyberlore). My understanding is that this is a relatively simple action RPG, perhaps more notable for its D&D credentials than its RPG ones.
- The Odyssey (1993 | Macintosh | Independent): An iconographic shareware adventure for the Macintosh that uses classical themes. It looks competent enough.
- Escape from Ragor (1994 | DOS | Motelsoft): I've done poorly with Motelsoft's iconographic games, but better with its first-person games. This is a first-person game. It appears to me to be a single-character Dungeon Master clone.
- Dungeon Arcade (1987 | Atari 800 | Antic): Most of the games from the 1980s that are "unplayed" on my list are questionable as RPGs, but I watched some video of this one, and it seems solid enough. It's an iconographic game, but I can't tell from video whether its primary inspiration is roguelikes, early Ultima, or the Quest series.
- Pagan: Ultima VIII (1994 | DOS | Origin): This will be the first mainline Ultima game that I've never previously played, except for about five minutes. I'd say I was looking forward to it, but there must have been a reason that my previous attempt only lasted about five minutes. As for the famous jumping puzzles, I'm going to try to start with a pre-patch version
 |
| I don't care for the look of it. |
- Warriors and Warlocks: Scenario - Castle Myrhavell (1983 | TRS-80 | Random House): This one flew under the radar until Dungy discovered it and added it to MobyGames a couple of years ago. I gather it's a Wizardry clone, but it has some nice production values. It's iffy whether I'll be able to play it: I thought I had a working version when I added it to the list, but that turned out not to be the case. I'm looking for another one.
- Ravenloft: Strahd's Possession (1994 | DOS | DreamForge). Back when I used to read (but not play) Dungeons & Dragons modules, I thought that Ravenloft was the best I'd ever read. Years later, I found out that many people shared that opinion. I have no idea what to expect from the CRPG adaptation except a vague notion that if it were any good, it would be more famous. I know it uses the same engine as Menzoberranzan from later in the year. Video suggests that it blends elements of Eye of the Beholder and Ultima Underworld.
 |
| A shot from Ravenloft, I assume in camp. |
As I mentioned in the opening paragraph, in addition to these announced games, we're also going to have, in the near future, a guest series on The Search for Freedom (1994), written by our colleague, AlphabeticalAnonymous. Freedom is the second of two RPGs by Howard Feldman of the Museum of Computer Adventure Game History fame. I did not choose it for my primary pass through 1994. I will be away a bunch between 20 May and 7 June, so AA's series will help me keep on track during a period in which my own playing time will be limited.
I can't say that I'm really looking forward to any of these games, but neither am I dreading them. Hopefully, one or more will turn out to be unexpectedly fun.
****
Mark your calendars: 20 June 2026 is MUD Day!
On
Saturday, 20 June 2026 from 18:00-22:00 UTC (14:00-18:00 EDT in the
U.S.), maybe longer depending on how things go, I will be playing the
original Multi-User Dungeon (1978), as hosted on British Legends.
(I will subsequently post an entry about it.) You will find me in the
game as "Chester" or maybe some obvious variant. Please, no one be a
jackass and confuse things by creating similar names or pretending to be
me.
 |
| The modern iteration of a 50-year-old game. |
MUD was created by two students at the University of Essex on a DEC PDP-10, inspired by Zork (1977).
Starting in 1983, players from around the world could access the game
remotely. It was licensed by CompuServe in 1987 and renamed British Legends.
It lasted until 1999. In 2000, Viktor Toth registered the domain
british-legends.com and rewrote the game from its pre-CompuServe source
code.
While
MUD is not the first CRPG or even the first multiplayer CRPG, it is
notable for going a slightly different direction than the multiplayer
games that preceded it, predominantly the PLATO-based dungeon crawlers
like Moria (1975) and Oubliette (1978). It mixed
CRPG-style attributes and experience with the interface of a text
adventure and spawned a subgenre of games that players enjoy to this
day.
Here's all you have to do to join the game from a Windows 10/11 computer:
1. Go to the "Turn Windows Features On or Off" control panel.
2. Check the box next to "Telnet."
3. Type Windows-R, then "CMD," then ENTER.
(You can replace these steps with a dedicated terminal emulator like PTerm or PUTTY.)
4. At the prompt, type:
TELNET british-legends.com 27750
5. Enter a user name.
The
game will then ask you for an email address. Once you type it in, it
will send you a password. Then just repeat Steps 4-5, enter the
password, and Jack's a doughnut, you're in the game!
 |
| Logging in to MUD. |
Of course, you'll want to read some information about how to play the game first. The site has a "How to Play" page, a more elaborate "More Advice" page, and a "FAQ."
I've
been in touch with Viktor Toth, the owner of the site, and he doesn't
anticipate any problems. He warns that if there are more than 36
players, the server will create a second instance of the game, so you
may end up in a world in which I'm not participating.
 |
| A long and ultimately tragic battle with a zombie. |
Since MUD is a multiplayer game, let's make this a multi-author entry! Record
your notes and thoughts about your experience with the game, take
screenshots, and either send everything to me within 48 hours of our
playing session, or post your experiences to the comments after my entry
is published.
And let's try to recreate the original experience.
Take notes, make maps, avoid spoilers. Provide hints (but not outright
spoilers) to other players. Hang out in the tearoom in chat. Yell! And
of course kill each other (and me) to harvest our treasure and points.
Let me know if you have any questions; otherwise, I look forward to seeing you there!
Regarding Ravenloft
ReplyDeleteYour party can contain only 2 self-created characters and 2 hirelings.
If you want to export your characters from Strahd's Possession to Stone Prophet then it's very important to make at least one of your created characters a Mage as only Mages can cast the important "Improved Identify" spell which is the only way to identify equipment and there are no Mage hirelings in Stone Prophet.
Mages are useful for other reasons too even tough aiming spells in outdoor areas can be difficult.
The second half of Strahd's Possession has a very large amount of level draining monsters and there is no way to cure level drain. Using magic from distance seems to be the only reliable way to deal with them.
Indoors only your front row can attack with one-handed weapons while two-handed weapons can attack from both rows but many monsters can only be hit with weapons that have high enough enchantment bonuses and the selection of two-handed weapons is very limited.
Thieves however are practically useless. Every door that can be picked has a key nearby and there are no disarm trap or pickpocketing mechanics.
Trivia note: the Improved Identify spell comes from Eye of the Beholder 2. Tabletop D&D has the regular Identify spell, which takes eight hours to cast, and this improved version lacks that drawback.
DeleteIn my memory, Ravenloft is TSR's attempt to follow the 3D hype of the time. While it isn't actively bad at anything, I remember it being rather bland and not really doing the setting justice. On the Gimlet, I predict it gets threes across the board, with fives in encounters, combat, and equipment; for a total score around 36.
I haven't played Ravenloft, but I have played Menzoberranzan and two words of warning with the engine / design that probably apply:
Delete- Transition from free movement to 3D movement has issues and you can get stuck forever, so only do it in a clear space (not necessarily outside, just not while hugging a stalagmite),
- In any case, save often and KEEP your save. There were "walking dead" scenarios in Menzo if you used this or that item before you were supposed to .
All Ravenloft has walking dead scenarios :)
DeleteI haven't played this, but also love Ravenloft. For such a large and diverse world, it is always somewhat disappointing that the properties derived from this world always start with Strahd. There's more than this!
Deleteit exist spell ingame to avoid level drain
DeleteI love this game, atmosphere, ost, gameplay, level design, it's one of the best rpg for me with might&magic III, World of xeen, Stonekeep and Baldur's gate 1 and 2
DeleteWhile 2E D&D has no way to _cure_ level drain, the cleric spell Negative Plane Protection serves to _prevent_ level drain.
DeleteWell, Restoration did exist in AD&D 2e, but it was a 7th level priest spell, it only brought you up to the minimum XP needed for your restored level -- so if you were halfway to level 12, got drained, then restored, you'd lost all those XP and need to start the climb to level 12 all over again -- and there was a time limit past which the level loss couldn't be restored. Oh, and the caster and the target both age two years when it's cast. So better than nothing, certainly, but still not a panacea by any means.
DeleteSounds like having a cleric besides a mage might be a good idea and as if multiclassing is the way to go, with only two starting characters.
DeleteI went into some detail on character creation in an earlier comment.
DeleteIn short, cleric and mage is indeed the way to go if you want to carry your party from the first Ravenloft to the second, but since the first game has great recruitable mage NPCs you'd be making things harder on yourself for no real reason. You'll be glad to have created two clerics, a cleric and a paladin, or a cleric and a fighter/cleric. Negative Plane Protection gives you a buffer against level drain and you will DIE without Turn Undead. Straight up. You will DIE.
DeleteI plan to play this ahead/in parallel and started skimming the manual; interestingly there seem to be like 3 different ways to move around (including Chet's beloved GTFO cluster) + an optional 'step' mode a-la Star Trail. Clearly a good example of the "we really don't know what we are doing" early 3D era...
DeleteBut looking forward to it, really enjoy the setting.
Of all the legitimate criticisms one could make about Pagan, I'd think the 'look of it' would be the least among them. Enjoy the pre-patch platforming. It only gets more intensive as you go, so....
ReplyDeleteThe look is about the best part of the game, along with the magic systems (which many people disliked). The platforming is maddening and rage-inducing. Do not inflict that on yourself: patch early!
DeleteI'll add that Pagan has an evocative setting and well-written NPCs. It is also a technical marvel when it comes to programming.
DeleteI predict that aside from the inexcusable platforming, Chet's biggest issue will be that Pagan has little or nothing to do with the Ultima series.
I'd estimate a 7 on game world, NPCs, and magic; 5 on equipment, quests, and graphics; 3 on character creation, encounters, economy, and gameplay; and subtract five points for its godawful jump physics and for being not really an Ultima. For a total of 43.
I challenge the evocative setting and well written NPCs. I found the setting bland and the NPCs sometimes even contradicting themselves and the setting. There is so much that doesn't make any sense. But to each his own don't want to go on a debate about U8 anymore. Let's just say never again has a game incited such rage in me.
DeleteUltima VIII is an interesting failure. It's got a very cool atmosphere and a few things going for it in the setting.
DeleteI struggle to think of anything nice to say about Ultima IX...
Ultima 9 is definitely one of the games of our time. I mean, it has graphics and an interface, and it contains music! Reviewers have unanimously called it a game.
DeleteWhatever you decide regarding the Pagan patch, bear in mind that save games are not pre-patch / post-patch compatible. So if you patch later, you have to start over.
DeleteU8 I never liked, I have tried to play it a few times and always give up. That said, there is an Exult project for it (much like U6) which I will definitely try.
DeleteUltima IX is one of the first open world 3rd-person RPGs. It's lets you explore Britannia in 3D. The overall storyline makes a lot of sense. And it has an inventory that does not make you want to kill somebody.
Delete@Buck, Ultima 9 as a shitty Zelda clone is a thought that I never entertained.
DeleteI predict that Ultima VIII will end up with a GIMLET exactly at the recommended game threshold (40?) and then Chet subtracts at least a point for the jumping and controls.
DeleteChet won't get far enough to encounter it in the pre-patch version, but they had it where a quest giver sent you to find a location that flat out did not exist - the intent being just to send you off in the general direction of the next quest givers - despite all other previous Ultimas having reinforced the necessity of thoroughly investigating everything lead. Still a little bitter about that one.
DeleteI would also highly recommend just starting with the patch. I still remember having to start over (due to pre/post incompatibilities), and the start of the game is not sufficiently fun to make it worthwhile.
DeleteTo feel the angst of those who played this back in 1994, Chet should play it with Dosbox cranked down to the speed of a 386 or 486. I am confident that he will immediately play the patched version for sure or drop the gimlet down to low 30s.
DeleteYou just want to feed on the Addict's suffering. :P
DeleteUltima 8 absolutely requires the "jump patched" version. On the other hand, I would avoid the "speech pack": voice acting is awful. Actually, I think that voice acting makes ANY video game worse.
DeleteI agree with Shamhat, in fact I think that Ultima 8 has one of the best magic systems in the history of role-playing video games.
@B, @RandomGamer: in order to enjoy "Ultima 9", you need the following five things: (1) the last official patch (1999); (2) the semi-official patch (2000); (3) the most recent fan-made bug-fix patch (2012); (4) the fan-made Extended Setup Utility (2001); (5) the fan-made dialogue patch (2001).
DeleteThis way, you will get a "Super-Deluxe Legend of Zelda". Technically, Ultima 9 is not a role-playing game, but an action-adventure one.
I am one of those people who really loved Ultima VIII (after patch). I had only played Ultima VII so I wasn't shocked that it did not happen in another "world" and I really like the exploration, the atmosphere, the many opportunities to break in & enter (much better than in U7) and yes the incredible magic system (both lore & gameplay). I also liked that combats (except against zombies) were extremely dangerous. Even with the best stats at the end of the game, combat was incredibly deadly which felt "realistic" and a change compared to previous RPGs I had played where I never used magic because I could just slay the enemy the old way.
DeleteI was however frustrated by how small the world was (1 city + 2 villages) if memory serves and by the pretty long & dull last third of the game. Ah, and the many "you stepped on this tile and it collapsed and so you died". I also felt that some, er, "political events" in the game did not have enough impact.
Still, I wanted "more" of it (the first 2 third anyway).
@Narwhal: I am afraid your comment contains mild spoilers about Ultima 8 (details about combat, the amount of towns...). I might be too much prudent, though: down below, I even encoded half of my opinion about "The Genie's Curse" XD
Delete@Abacos I often play computer games with the sound off entirely, but I appear to have recently crossed the age threshold where significant amounts of in-game text risks not being physically able to read street signs the next day. I'm very bothered by the habit (it seems to be more common in games that were originally for consoles) of partial voice-acting, where SOME but not all the dialogue is voiced.
Delete@Abacos: It's not really the same, but somehow your recommendations for Ultima 9 remind me of the recipe for carp: "You nail the carp to a board and you lean the board up against a fire till it gets black halfway up one side. Then you turn it over and lean it up against the fire till it gets black halfway up the other side. Then you eat the board."
Delete[Inaccurately remembered from Calvin Trillin's piece about eating in Nebraska.]
Whoops that Anonymous was me
DeleteI think Chet should do at least a session with the game in pre-patch status. That's how most people experienced it in the day, I played it on release and did not know about the patch until many years later and, even if I did, it was released several months after I was done with the game.
DeleteIf he finds too annoying and frustrating, no shame in restarting with the patched version, it's a mechanic that really does not add anything aside from the aforementioned annoyance and frustration, but it was how the game was released and reviews of the time were calibrated on that.
The problems with VIII mostly stem from the rushed development. Too much got cut out, and even the completed expansion got shelved. Still a little surprised that’s never gotten any release in the modern day. If Pagan had been made by people that knew how to make an action-RPG with platformer elements e.g. Landstalker with an Ultima theming, it would make some of the other failings easier to stomach.
DeleteI have heard that people with no prior experience with Ultima do find IX more appealing. The sacrilege is not a small issue, but I sort of understand the need to do a quasi-reboot considering how long it’d been since VIII. It all got handled in the absolute wrong way, and the bugs making it nearly unplayable on release didn’t help either. I did have a sort of similar experience with King’s Quest: The Mask of Eternity. I wasn’t a huge of the series in general so the format switch to action-RPG didn’t irritate me.
From what I've heard the expansion is full on lost media, EA never archived it and there's no known copies that got out
DeleteI'll add my .02 cents having played (and been incredibly disappointed by it back in the day), play U8 with the patch.
DeleteBut what I'm most looking forward to Chet's journey through the game is his assessment of Scorpia's CGW review.
Given the amount of material on The Cutting Room Floor website (tcrf.net) I'm really surprised that U8's expansion isn't there. But yes, according to all sources I could find, it really doesn't exist any more. That's just... *highly* unusual.
DeleteEh, it's not that unusual. Origin shut down, EA presumably didn't bother to keep their archives, and so they got thrown in the trash. Or Origin didn't bother to keep archives and lost it themselves. Bad archival practices are depressingly common
DeleteI played Ultima IV before IX (and V shortly but I didn't like it), so the plot of visiting all the shrines felt familiar, and I wasn't bothered by any inconsistencies (from what I read in the blog posts here the series has a lot of them anyway).
DeleteNot saying IX is a good game. I'd call it below average in its patched state. It's still very buggy, some systems are broken, combat is awful. I'm just saying there are some positive things you can say about it.
As an Atari 800 kiddo and a player of Roguelikes, Ultima, and the Quest games, uhhh, wow. You got me as to what the influences are there.
ReplyDeleteI watched probably the same video you did and did laugh out loud at the first screen having "LAST SHOP!!!" and then upon leaving for the second screen there immediately being another shop.
Never would have guessed there was an Atari 8-bit RPG that reminded me as much of Jumpman and Lode Runner visually as it did other RPGs, though obviously if there were continuous movement that would be quite a different game. ... Is this the first Israeli RPG?
Oops, talking about Dungeon Arcade, mostly obviously.
DeleteBased on its description and the videos Dungeon Arcade does not seem to have any character development, only XP as score (with HP going down, but being able to be restored?).
DeleteThen again, it's just 40 rooms / four pages of listing, so should be quick. And since it indeed appears to be the earliest game from Israel so far to be on the Master Game List (unless an earlier game turns out to be written by an Israeli as well - currently said country doesn't show up on the list at all), that probably already makes it worth documenting.
I just tried it and its very basic, the mag mention a win condition by getting out alive but it is unclear how this is accomplished or even possible.
DeleteI don't know if you're still blogging the occasional console game, but if you are I strongly recommend the Sega Genesis version of Shadowrun (NOT the SNES version). It's a good CRPG in it's own right in addition to being fairly faithful to the tabletop version, and I think it would score well in the GIMLET.
ReplyDeleteWell, I played the SNES Shadowrun recently and liked it pretty much. I still have to play and am looking forward to the Genesis one though.
Delete[shrug]
DeleteTo each his own. I'll grant you that the SNES version arguably has the more memorable soundtrack, but otherwise I found the Genesis version to be vastly superior.
Another good reason fro playing both the Mega Drive and SNES Shadowruns is that eventually our Addict will hit the Shadowrun Returns trilogy and while the newer and older games are not directly linked, there are some callbacks. Besides, the comparison of old and new could be interesting.
Delete(Avoid the 2007 Shadowrun though, not least because it's not an rpg.)
If he wants to do both then I'm certainly not going to stand in his way, but I'm working under the assumption that it'll be hard enough talking him into blogging even one. In which case it should definitely be the Genesis version.
DeleteThe SNES Shadowrun is fun, but yeah, the Genesis edition is much, much better and an absolute classic that shouldn't be passed up.
DeleteConversations like these are how we end up with the Addict playing Deadly Towers, Bokosuka Wars, and Pinball Quest. You say Shadowrun and we'll get, I don't know, Sword of Vermilion or Hoshi wo Hiru Mito or Secret of the Stars. At best.
Delete(I'm kidding, mostly. Console games are a rare and randomized treat, or at least I think they still are. The results have as often as not been completely perverse, but that's kind of nice in its way. I still think it'd be amazing if World Court Tennis made a surreal appearance as a BRIEF, but only if the RNG picks it.)
Sword of Vermilion... now that is a terrible game.
DeleteShadowrun might actually be one of the few console games from that era that Chester would like: no "cute" graphics, a bit of character customization, and multiple ways to complete the game.
Also lots of lore, doled out in easily-digested chunks through the contact system.
DeleteSpeaking of which, do any other games use something similar to Shadowrun's contact system? I can't think of any off the top of my head, and it was good enough that I'd have expected it to be copied.
I have tried to play the SNES Shadowrun many times since emulation started to be popular, and I always found it extremely tedious to play.
DeleteThe Mega Drive one, though, that one is fun.
The SNES Shadowrun is better if you think of it as an adventure game with RPG elements. It's a followup to Nightshade which was an NES adventure game with brawler elements.
DeleteWell, I can think it as an adventure, rpg, or whatever. It is how it is played, controlled, etc, what I found tedious.
DeleteThe guest post note reminds me I was thinking of writing up the Angband lineage games for 1994 (Moria and ZAngband), but I got distracted by the spring interactive fiction festival and the new turn based mode in Pillars of Eternity - I should give those a go!
ReplyDeleteI’ll second the note above about ensuring you have a mage in your Ravenloft group - given how small the party size is, some multiclassing isn’t a bad idea. I have to say I enjoyed both games a lot when I played them a couple years ago; the joinable NPCs feel especially like harbingers of things to come. Oh, and while the games allow you to free-roam, I found them much easier to control when you turn on the tile-based movement option (albeit there were a couple places in Menzo where I had to swap back to maneuver through some stalagmites; can’t remember whether there’s anything similar in Ravenloft).
Al-Qadim is a fun Zelda-like that uses more of the AD&D rules than I’d expected, though they are very loosely interpreted. There’s an early line where you can tell your slightly overbearing mom to back off because “I’m a corsair now, wild and free!” And for some reason that dumb line of dialogue has stuck in my head for thirty years (as I recall the corsair is implemented more or less like a paladin, which struck me as odd but is I think in line with the PnP rules).
Al-Qadim: The Genie's Curse was good game. I have play it on old PC long time ago. If I remember correctly, you can choose difficulty settings + you can save game in every moment.
ReplyDeleteI think it was allright. But I just don't think Chet will like it it's too console-y.
DeleteOf the three games in this list that I've played (Al-Qadim, Ultima 8, Ravenloft), I find Al-Qadim definitely the most fun. It has good graphics, an evocative setting, and well enough writing and quests.
DeleteIt also only marginally meets your standards of being an RPG, so I expect you to like it less than I do.
My estimate gives it 7 on game world; 5 on NPCs, encounters, quests, interface, and gameplay; 3 on everything else; for a total of 44. But possibly subtracting 1-2 points for only marginally being an RPG.
I guess the story, encounters and setting will make up for it, though. It's quite intriguing.
DeleteIt's one of my favourite games and I will defend it's clunky, janky nature as if it was part of my bloodline. The music is incredible in General Midi.
DeleteI finished Al-Qadim and I can't recollect any feature that would put it in the RPG category. Isn't it an action game with inventory - like a Zelda or something?
DeleteYou actually have xp and level up, but without any control of anything.
DeleteAh see I didn't remember that. I guess that's how impressive the RPG side was :D
DeleteStop dissing on my child, Pedro, he may hear you
DeleteYay for guest posts and thanks to AlphabeticalAnonymous for delivering.
ReplyDeleteThe initial section of "Search for Freedom" is, well, free to download. Grab a copy and play along.
Delete"Escape from Ragor" shouldn't give you any troubles. I started early in case I got stuck and already finished it. It's much better documented than the earlier titles, there's even a walkthrough and a full playthrough on Youtube.
ReplyDeletePeople Against Goodness And Normalcy: Ultima VIII
ReplyDelete(That's from the 1987 Dragnet movie, but it sort of fits U8 as well.)
Having a vaguely-religous subtitle that doesn't really have anything to do with the game at hand... Pagan is similar to Exodus in that sense.
DeleteCongrats AlphabeticalAnonymous!
ReplyDeleteIs it going your first move from commenter to writer? :)
Yes, first time contributing to this site. It definitely gave me a deeper appreciation for what it takes to deliver this level of content - I wouldn't be able to maintain the pace of a blog like this one.
DeleteGreat that The Search for Freedom will now be documented here, too, and thanks @AA for doing the guest posts!
DeleteI agree on the superior cover art of 'Warriors and Warlocks'.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't expect anything too great from the TRS-80.
Delete"As for the famous jumping puzzles, I'm going to try to start with a pre-patch version"
ReplyDeleteWhy would you do that to yourself!!!
I'm really looking forwards to you playing this. My feelings are that it's actually not too bad a game with a couple of bad design decisions (the jumping puzzles are probably second in annoyance to trying to correctly place items on the exact pixels of pentagrams to create fire spells!) but feels way out of place being an Ultima game. If it had just been a brand new franchise history would have been kinder to it.
I'm also really looking forwards to your coverage of Ravenloft, I have really fond memories of it but have a feeling they are rose tinted and it won't hold up.
Having read a smidge about Ultima 8, my understanding is that the patched version absolutely makes the jumping puzzles easier. I was not a fan of it honestly, it has a feel of control that was just too clunky for my liking.
ReplyDeleteI am very curious as to Ravenloft, as I suspect that DreamForge's RPG's from the period might have suffered from the problem of Windows 95 upgrade: a lot of people held back their upgrades until after Win95 release, and, after they bought their shiny new PCs, they wanted to run Win95 software to showcase it. And, well, a lot of what was released in 94-95 were still DOS games.
ReplyDeleteIn my little bubble, these games were known and played, but I never played them myself. To me, this is perhaps the most interesting set of games from this year, in large part - because I never got into blobbers and I am a bit reluctant to play them myself.
I feel like it's too early for Ultima 8 — Serpent Isle was just yesterday! :)
ReplyDeleteThe last time I played it, a few years ago, I found the game quite enjoyable. But I played it as a deliberately clunky retro-gaming experience.
I also plan to try out Al-Qadim and Ravenloft. I tried playing Ravenloft a few years ago, but then just forgot about it.
John from Pittsburgh -
ReplyDeleteI played Menzoberranzan and Ravenloft as a kid when they first came out and loved them, but oh god is that engine clunky in a replay.
Al-Qadim had a bug at one point where a bridge would not appear if you had the "turbo" switch on. Not sure if this is relevant to emulation.
ReplyDeleteThe speed related issues were fixed in the gog release (I replayed it)
DeleteI can't be the only one who keeps seeing the NES Wizards & Warriors title lettering while looking at the Warriors and Warlocks manual cover, can I?
ReplyDeletehttps://www.mobygames.com/game/16073/wizards-warriors/cover/group-55290/cover-146921/
Is there a working copy out there?
DeleteHmm, maybe that's why we're now getting a coverage of The Search for Freedom, too, through a (series of) guest post(s) - to please Howard Feldman, so he provides a working copy of Warriors and Warlocks (which the MoCAGH has in its collection)... ;-P.
DeleteRegarding The Odyssey, the Macintosh Repository has versions 1.3 and 1.4 for download. The latter was released (earliest) in June 1994 based on its info screen visible at the start of this video.
ReplyDeleteBased on contemporary Usenet posts, the author (David Larkin) put version 1.2 up on info.mac in early/mid-March 1994, version 1.3 was apparently downloadable latest by early/mid-May
I'm not sure if earlier versions are still available and when they were published (did not see any source for an initial 1993 release yet), but the aforementioned ones could effectively be seen as 1994 game(s).
Pagan will arguably struggle to meet your definition of "RPGness", although I imagine even if it failed that test you would feel the need to finish the mainline Ultima series anyway.
ReplyDeletePlease do not play a pre-patch version. No one should do that to themselves ever. I'm skeptical you could even get your hands on one these days without buying physical media off ebay or something.
It appears there is a bug in the CD version of Ravenloft: Strahd's Possession - the version sold by Steam and GOG, I understand (1.2a) - due to which arrows cause 0 damage. It's reported in several places, including this forum post where it is explained and a solution offered (small hex edit).
ReplyDeleteAccording to another entry, many enchanted weapons do not get any damage bonus, also due to settings in the Objects.dat file. The corresponding bug fix is included in a more general 'cheat' file, though, so to address this separately someone might have to check it out further.
Based on relatively recent reports, there might be further bugs (or at least one major one) in the Steam version, but not 100% clear if that's still true.
Also, in the CD version, to kill the Living Wall (somewhat bugged) in the added quest, see here.
DeleteJust so it doesn't sound like the CD version being more buggy overall: I'm not sure the floppy disk version was (officially) patched beyond v1.1(a?) - others might know - and I understand it had other bugs.
The CD-ROM version was released in parallel or at least in the same year and differs from the floppy version in several aspects. There is full digitized speech throughout, additional NPCs, monsters and cinematics, plus atmospheric background people and animals, and more detailed renditions of monsters and dropped objects to differentiate them. There is also an additional quest in the game as mentioned above.
Regarding Ultima VIII: the patch transforms it from a terrible platforming game to a flawed but competent action/RPG. Unless you like dying repeatedly because you held the button a smidge too long or didn't move the mouse just right, I'd recommend documenting the original controls briefly, then switching to the patched version for actual playthrough.
ReplyDeleteI think this is right. However, you might have to play for a while to truly grasp how bad the problems were pre-patch, or why the game would be so forcefully rejected as "Super Avatar Brothers." So it might be a drag to go that deep and then have to start completely over.
DeleteImportantly, the patch not only gave you direct control over jump destinations, but also eliminated moving platforms - they're all frozen in place for easy navigation. It's a pretty huge transformation of the game design, removing a whole of what was, presumably, supposed to be the challenge (and fun?). You could compare it to a patch that removed riddles or pressure-plate puzzles from a game that had previously baked those in. So I could understand it if you didn't feel you could fairly assess the game as-designed while playing the patched version. But truly, the game as-designed hadn't worked.
The patch also fixes one plot/puzzle point, where the in-game text does not give you enough information to understand what specific place you need to go to advance the quest. You can still find what you need to find through brute-force searching around, so it's not game-breaking at the level of, say, the QFGIV plot flags that failed to trip. But it baffled so many players that, IIRC, it rose out of Pagan-specific walkthroughs to end up in general FAQs for the series. That being said, if you were committed to playing the original version, commenters here would happily let you know when this particular problem was approaching.
About Al Quadim, I enjoyed it a lot but I never though on it as an RPG. Let's see what you think about it.
ReplyDeleteThe start of Ultima 8 was hard and dissapointing, with the jumping and no group, and it looked uglier than Ultima 7. But I insisted and its really is a game I enjoyed a lot.
And last, Ravenloft is more Eye of the Beholder than Ultima Underworld. I liked it more than EotB, not sure why, maybe it's easier. I hope you enjoy it.
Odyssey is actually quite good. I think that one might be surprisingly fun - but rotate your saves frequently. The game designers do something dickish here and there (with a kind of eyebrow wagging humor, at least) and you might want to reload sometimes to see the different ways your decisions can go. Looking forward to that one!
ReplyDeleteI've heard several people compliment this game over the years, and I'm really looking forward to Chet's playthrough. Of course, being Mac only, they may have just been delusional.
DeleteAre you both talking about the 1993 or 1994 Macintosh game "The Odyssey" by David Larkin (see my comment above with a link to a gameplay video), which I understand is the upcoming one, or the 1996 Macintosh game "Odyssey - The Legend of Nemesis" for which you can find a page here?
DeleteIt seems to me they're not the same, they have separate entries on the Macintosh Repository as well.
"Al-Qadim: the Genie's Curse" is the Arabian Legend of Zelda. D&D attributes appear in the menu, but they are fixed and purely cosmetic.
ReplyDeleteMechanics identical to the Legend of Zelda (rot13 ? No, today I am going for Arabic) :
1) إنشاء الشخصية يقتصر على الاسم فقط (ما هو الاسم العربي لـ "لينك"؟)؛
2) تطوير الشخصية يقتصر على نقاط الصحة (قارن بقلوب زيلدا)؛
3) السلاح الوحيد هو سيف البداية، ويمكن ترقيته مرتين إذا توفرت لديك نقاط صحة كافية؛
4) لا توجد دروع، فقط خواتم الحماية؛
5) جميع الشخصيات تنتهي بنفس المهارات والقدرات التي يمتلكها أي لاعب آخر.
1994 is an interesting year as to me THE RPG of the year was a shareware title, Aethra Chronicles.
ReplyDeleteDarksun 2 is a good contender as well, but let's just say it is to Darksun 1 the same that Ultima 7 pt 2 is to Ultima 7
This is interesting with the new game plan, how is the game of the year coronated, was this discussed in some other post?
DeleteRavenloft, despite being one of my favorites, is an odd game. It's hard to design/ implement the game world according to the novels and the campaign settings. The developers put a lot of effort into the inventory screen and the 'paper dolls'.
ReplyDeleteIn the end it's more of a dungeon crawler in a limited world. The encounters are rare but memorable. It feels lonely and empty. But that's the result ifp you want to show a world of xenophobic and superstitious inhabitants.
There are a few side quests and Easter eggs. If you know the back story of Strahd you will know it when you meet that NPC.
There is one NPC encounter that might screw your play through if it happens too early in the game. Be careful when exploring Barovia. Not every house has welcoming inhabitants. Some might attack you and one will do something worse. Some areas are closed early on until you get a key.
It is what it is. It's not perfect. Menzoberranzand and Stone prophet use the same engine and improve it a little. The NPC encounters save the engine a bit.
I love how this blog makes me want to play everything. In fact, I'm considering taking on the task of playing all the games from Chet's 'Must Play' list that I'd previously ignored. As a teenager, I used to think those early RPGs from the 70s and 80s were too visually primitive; only those from the 90s attracted me. Now, I think this blog has changed my mind—or at least made me want to try them at least once. Anyway, speaking of my own preferences, this year has already started strong with Star Trail. However, right now, Aethra Chronicles: Volume One - Celystra's Bane is one I'm definitely looking forward to (I remember playing a demo and loving it many moons ago). I've also played Ravenloft several times (though I've never won); it's a game I would return to just for the atmosphere and eerie music. I'm seriously considering playing along with many of these games (if I find the time!). Last year, I only completed three RPGs (Blade of Destiny, Dark Sun 2, and Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition). Replaying Baldur's Gate actually took me from September to March, so I don't expect to finish many this year. P.S. I don't expect high GIMLETs for any of these, but the experience is worth it—at least for Ravenloft
ReplyDeleteI am playing BG2 at the moment and I cannot find the joy I found a couple of years ago with the first Baldur's Gate, which to me still is the best D&D game out there.
DeleteTo insist: I played it for the first time recently and it became my favourite crpg, just like that.
DeleteI don't care about graphics at all, but it's really hard for me to play games with outdated interfaces, especially if I've never played them before. I bounced off might and magic vi for this reason.
DeleteI'm curious what you find so outdated about MM6? It looks like a fairly straightforward point-n-click GUI to me.
DeleteUltima 8, Ravenloft and Al-Qadim at least deserve a look. Not sure about the others as I have not played them.
ReplyDeleteJust decide to go on with them depending on your fun with them. I can take you not liking Al-Qadim, I already have cried a lot during my lifetime.
I'm looking forward to “The Odyssey”! Greco-Roman mythology could make for wonderful fantasy worlds, it’s a shame that it’s so underappreciated as game setting. I hope your playthrough will be more pleasant than your 2022 attempt to get through “Die Odysee”.
ReplyDeleteI have a silly hypothesis about Ultimas 8&9. Ultima 7-9 were supposed to be the third trilogy. I like to think of Black Gate, Underworld II, and Serpent Isle as the third trilogy, with Underworld I and the Worlds of Ultima games being a semi-official spinoff series (also a sort of trilogy). The third in the Guardian saga, Serpent Isle, as you know ends with Guardian plucking the Avatar from outer space and dropping him into the waters of Pagan. According to my idea, the Avatar is immediately eaten by the Lurker, and the Avatar you play in the game is an imposter who wears his clothes after the Lurker pukes up everything but the cape. All of this to explain why va gur arkg tnzr gur Ningne nfxf Ybeq Oevgvfu jung n cnynqva vf. The only problem with this is that now the last two games are a duology. Then again, a fan patch could easily set the end of Ascension in Mt. Drash! Now you've got five trilogies!
ReplyDelete/please don't take any of this seriously
I seriously doubt that either 4/5/6 or 7/8/9 were originally planned and conceived as trilogies. Sure, 4/5/6 ends up working pretty well narratively, but planned? Nah.
DeleteBut the main character from 8/9 being somebody else? Sure, I'll buy that. This is exactly what happens at the end of Nakar's famous let's play of Serpent Isle, too (his Avatar is female, and after SI decides to abandon her quest and have a generic white guy take up U8).
Garriott has said that VII to IX were deliberately intended as a trilogy. Granted, I don't think he ever mentioned this until IX was in development, but there still is a general arc even if whatever was originally planned went out the window.
DeleteRavenloft games has a vastly imbalanced selection of joinable NPCs. In the Strahd's Possession there is a good selection of mages, but only one permanent cleric you can recruit only in the second half of the game, and you'll lose him forever if you remove him from the party after that. There is a another cleric, but she joins only before the specific dungeon and is lost forever after that.
ReplyDeleteIn the Stone Prophet there is no joinable mages at all and cleric is also cannot be recruited early in the game.
That really forces you to create a very specific duo of PCs if you plan to have a balanced party across both games. Fighter\Cleric or Ranger\Cleric + Mage or Fighter\Mage is the most sensible choice. Fighter\Mage + Cleric\Mage is also fine, especially for the Stone Prophet.
I just want to echo what many other commenters have said about Ultima VIII: You absolutely need to play the patched version. And to this I would add that the patch shouldn't be seen as making the game less authentic; it is an official work of Origin, issued only a few months of the game's release in response to early customer feedback, and blessed by Lord British himself in an accompanying letter to fans. It also bears mentioning that the patch isn't just a thinly veiled cheat mode that makes jumping easier; it also fixes about 100 bugs, annoyances, and other issues related to the plot, maps, game logic, and user interface. (The most significant of these are summarized in a text file distributed with the patch.)
ReplyDeleteThe game is in principle winnable without the patch, though you will find the experience extremely frustrating—plan on lots of tedious save-scumming during action sequences, and be prepared to reload from much earlier saves when you discover that some action you took hours ago put the game in an unwinnable state.
I always thought there Ravenloft modules, with the exception of the original, read better than they played. 2E D&D wasn't, in my opinion, an optimal system for atmospheric horror. Vampire: The Dark Ages scratched a similar itch and was less rules-intensive.
ReplyDeleteThat's my experience as well. The few sessions I've played of tabletop Ravenloft ended up being "kick the monster's ass with fireballs and big swords!"
DeleteAnd there's nothing wrong with that, BUT it also isn't atmospheric horror. Or indeed any kind of horror. I'd say Call of Chthulhu does a much better job at horror.
Regarding CRPGs, I suppose you need pretty good graphics (or going text-only) to make a game seriously feel creepy.