Wednesday, September 17, 2025

Ishar 2: Messengers of Doom: Won! (with Summary and Rating)

Dr. Doom cameos to set up the next game.
         
Ishar 2: Messengers of Doom
France
Silmarils (developer and publisher)
Released 1993 for DOS, Amiga, and Atari ST; 1994 for Macintosh 
Date Started: 28 July 2025  
Date Ended: 4 September 2025
Total Hours: 20
Difficulty: Easy-Moderate (2.5/5)
Final Rating: (to come later)
Ranking at time of posting: (to come later)
      
Here I go for the second time in a row, trying to reconstruct what happened in a game I played weeks ago. My first screenshot shows the party in a richly-decorated room, taking something off a table. The best I can figure, this is the commander-in-chief's office, which we opened with the key that we got from Zeldy's neck. I believe the item that we're taking is an air amulet stolen from the temple on Zach's Island. No . . . wait. I guess we're taking an idol stolen from the temple, which we then returned to the temple, for which we were rewarded with the air amulet. Forgive me if I have something messed up there.
         
I never got to kill the guard captain. We saved the world but didn't solve the corruption of Zach's Island.
        
My next note is: "Tossed $40,000 worth of evening clothes in the trash." This seems to be about the Blue Velvet club. The first time we visited, we were arrested and tossed in prison, an event that simply repeated when we visited again. There's a hint somewhere in one of the taverns that the club expects you to show up dressed to the nines and wearing pendants, which was supposed to be a clue to spend $8,000 each on five sets of evening wear from one of the shops in town. I don't think I figured this out for myself. I wrote down that there were two places in which I used a walkthrough, and I'm pretty sure this is one of them.
         
Zuburan dons some fancy clothes.
     
Our attire let us join the party, which apparently led us to a sad old man named Olbar who gave us the map to the final island—his island, as he was one of the original companions in Crystals of Arborea. Only he didn't "give" us the map; he put it on the table for us to take. This is different from all of the other maps in the game, which led us to leave the bar thinking we'd received the map, throw away $40,000 worth of clothing, realize later that we didn't have the map, and have to re-buy the clothing and re-visit the club.
        
Look at that goblin gettin' all funky.
      
Before visiting the new island, we returned to Akeer's Island, as I felt that the amulet was the key to getting past the invulnerable air spirit. It was; the creature simply wasn't there. We fought our way through skeletons and mummies and some kind of lion-headed beast ("Paralyze" worked very well on him) and ultimately made our way to a series of prison cells.
        
Nice skirt, Simba.
     
A girl named Grimzel was in one of them. "Take me back to my father," she ordered. To get her into the party, I had to dump Yornh, the priest, which fortunately everyone else was cool with. Grimzel had pretty miserable statistics, but her spells at least replicated what I lost in Yornh (which didn't make sense to me, as she was a scholar, not a priest, but even as she leveled, she never gained the other spells that my scholar gained). She couldn't wear or wield anything useful, and I didn't really bother to equip her. For the rest of the game, I kept her in the back and just had her heal other characters.
        
I just now noticed that she's blind.
       
It took me forever to find a secret door that had to be opened with a button—a mechanic the game does not introduce until this point. A puzzle involved using the skulls we'd been finding to weigh down platters suspended from the ceiling by chains. We had to fight a guard dressed in blue (again, "Paralyze" was a god-send). I believe he was guarding a room with the last glass-encased bone belonging to Grimzel's father.
     
Bluer than velvet were his eyes . . .
      
We returned to Jon's Island, moving fast and frequently healing to avoid having to buy furs again. Yes, I had also thrown away those clothes, even though I should have realized I'd have to return. We put the bones on the five pillars, and with a resounding "Dwilgelindildong!," the druid Grimz was standing before us.
     
I hope the order doesn't matter.
      
I now had to make another space in my party. I tried expelling Grimzel, but Grimz wouldn't join without her. (And to make a full confession, none of my party members would countenance her expulsion, so I had to murder her just to see if Grimz would join without her.) Thus, with reluctance I gave up Karorn, my only good warrior after Zubaran. There was no way I was giving up Eliandr or Khalin's spells. I was way over-relying on "Change of Timescale" by this point. 
   
Grimz was about as useless as his daughter. He also promptly went into the back rank. He couldn't equip or carry anything, and he only came with four spells. Fortunately, one of them was "Fireproofing," which turned out to be vital for the endgame. I believe Grimz is the only druid character, and thus the only character with this spell. Otherwise, the player could skip a decent part of the game.
         
Grimz is smart but nothing else.
       
After we revisited the Blue Velvet club and properly got the map, we set sail for Olbar's Island. The only landing point immediately took us into the final dungeon, where the first foe was some kind of fire elemental, capable of blasting most of us to smithereens without "Fireproofing" refreshed every minute or so. Even with the spell active, he took a long time to kill. Only Zubaran and his Living Sword +20 were capable of doing any serious damage.
     
I haven't figured out the spell yet.
        
Not long after the fire elemental, we had to repeat the process with a dragon. I couldn't get the timing right on how often I needed to cast "Fireproofing," so I just ducked out of combat and saved every so often, reloading if anyone died. I should mention that Zubaran didn't need "Fireproofing," as he had the shield that Griml had enchanted. I started to wonder if a single character with that shield could just solo the game and skip a ton of content that involved finding the various pieces of Grimz. The problem is that unless you were prepared to return to Zach's Island a lot to rest and heal, you'd need a magician to cast "Change of Timescale" or at least someone to cast "Heal." Maybe the knight could do it. I don't think the magician, who can wield a shield, could do it on her own, as she can't wield a weapon powerful enough to do any damage to the late-game enemies in melee combat. It's possible I'm missing something, though. Could that "Invulnerability" potion substitute for "Fireproofing?" I never tried it and have no idea how long it lasts.
          
This dragon looks very uncomfortable.
       
We fought through skeletons, mummies, liches, some kind of crone with horse legs, and more lion-ogres, picking up piles of cash that we wouldn't spend. We had to find a few more secret doors and trigger several pressure plates to open the way forward. Finally, we made it to the door outside Shandar's chambers. Here, again, I needed a walkthrough. To open the door, I had to click on it with the parrot, which we had purchased ages ago. I think the rationale is that we had previously come upon an unnamed sorcerer practicing some kind of password, and the idea was that the parrot repeated the password. Why one of us couldn't have repeated the password, I don't have any idea, particularly since it's the same mysterious goofy word that I've been making fun of for half the game.
         
Is it possible that this word doesn't sound as idiotic in French?
             
With the baboon, mouse, and man-eating plant still unused in our packs (do any of them do anything?), we entered the final chambers. Shandar was a bit of a pushover, although I did have to keep "Global Psychic Protection" and "Fireproofing" going constantly. I nailed him with a bunch of offensive spells, moved in, and just had Zubaran hammer him until he died. He was capable of casting "Inversion," so I had to be careful that Zubaran wasn't hitting other party members instead of Shandar. I think this is how I lost Grimz at some point, but I didn't really care, since the final cut scene took over as soon as Shandar lost his last hit point.
     
Shandar hits us with a spell.
     
The unsatisfying endgame showed the fortress of Ishar from the outside as day transitioned to night. There was an absolutely pathetic volley of like three fireworks, barely visible. As the words "The End" appeared, an ominous cloaked figure wandered into the frame, his gaze fixed on the fortress. Or maybe he was just watching the fireworks.
 
This is the extent of the "fireworks."
       
The GIMLET is not going to be great for this one. I really didn't like anything about it except the graphics. I found the difficulty extremely unbalanced (admittedly, I contributed to that by over-grinding at one point) and the puzzles a bit too obscure.
       
The text and dialogue were either unnecessarily obtuse or poorly translated. For instance, if you try to enter the club before 20:00 or any of the shops after the same hour, a message comes up that says, "Shut up over there!!! Haven't you seen the time!?" I don't know what it says in the original French, but why couldn't it just say, "We're closed!"? "I think this place is bewitched" isn't really the clue that you need to cast "Exorcism." (Oh, yeah, we had to do that once in Shandar's place.) Did the translators not know the word "cursed," or were they trying to make it harder for the player? I have the same question about the "Ent Alarm" potion. There are countless such examples.
     
We were supposed to get from this that he was practicing a password.
      
Let's give it a go:
     
  • 3 points for the game world. There's a bit of lore, but most of it is derivative of Tolkien or unnecessarily vague. Early in the game, I didn't really understand what the story was about. By the end, I did, but I still found it incompetently told, mostly through sparse, poorly-translated text.
  • 3 points for character creation and development. I rather like the idea of selecting party members from NPCs, but the game ruins its own ideas here by failing to fully develop them. The "voting" system is just silly, and I didn't find any consequences whatsoever from the party affinity score. There's no point in having good and evil characters when there are no role-playing choices in the game. Character development is mostly important for the acquisition of spells.
  • 3 points for NPC interaction. Most of the NPCs in the game offer a couple of lines of hints. The ones occupying the streets of the cities have no purpose whatsoever, and I later learned that they can simply be slaughtered with no consequences. I liked that you could have NPCs join the party.
  • 4 points for encounters and foes. I never like games that don't name their enemies. The foes that the game offers have a decent number of strengths and weaknesses that require mostly spell solutions. I give a couple of points for the puzzles. I found a couple of them too obtuse, but a few were well-clued by NPC dialogue if I paid attention, and I always like when Dungeon Master descendants go beyond purely mechanical puzzles like levers and pressure plates.
     
The "skull puzzle" on Akeer's Island.
         
  • 3 points for magic and combat. The game messes up its Dungeon Master roots by making the "cool down" period so short that you really just need one character to repeatedly attack. That leaves all tactics associated with spells, and I admit that the game offers a decent variety of these, requiring the player to carefully experiment to find the right tactics. The grid for assigning positions is unnecessarily complicated (or, to look at it another way, doesn't use its full potential). It really only matters whether the character is in the front rank or not.
        
Some of the enemies in Shandar's place. Note that I have all the spell panels open.
          
  • 4 points for equipment. The system is all right. You have a satisfying number of slots among five characters, and it's pretty easy to tell what's best via cost and the name of the item. The reagent and potion system could have been better developed, for instance by allowing the player to mix potions before he needs them.
  • 4 points for the economy. I can't complain that it runs out of utility. You need money for equipment, food, lodging, and even certain plot points. I ended the game well before equipping my party with all of the best stuff. But it's somewhat absurd that the only respawning enemies who drop gold are found on Zach's Island in just a couple locations, and it's ridiculous that you cannot sell items.
       
I could have spent a lot more time in here.
       
  • 2 points for a main quest. I don't really see any side quests. There are a couple of ways to solve some of the puzzles, and I give credit for that in "Encounters and Foes," but there are no real role-playing choices to make in the quest.
  • 5 points for graphics, sound, and interface. It gets most of that for the graphics, which offer more detail and artistic quality than 90% of the games in its era. However, looking over my entries for the first Ishar, I almost prefer its graphics for monsters. They were far more straightforward and less stylized. As for sound effects, it has a few, mostly in combat, nothing worth getting excited about. I do, however, give it some extra credit for its use of ambient sound, which we still aren't seeing in the average game. I was not a fan of the mouse-driven interface (it has some keyboard backups, but not many).
        
I love that Shandar took the time to decorate his dungeon with stained-glass windows of himself.
        
  • 5 points for gameplay. I give it some credit for some nonlinearity, a small amount of replayability (trying different party members), a modest difficulty, and a short playing time.
   
That gives us a final score of 36. In years past, I would have said that it was on the cusp of what I call "Recommended," but as we get deeper into the 1990s, I think that the "Recommended" threshold has to be raised. I can't find the entry where I offered a more complicated formula, but it was something like the game year minus 1952, which would put the "Recommended" threshold at about 35 for 1987, but more like 41 for 1993.
     
I ranked the original Ishar at 38, which goes with my memory that I liked it a bit better, although the differences in specific GIMLET categories are slight enough that I may have just been in a better mood on that day in 2020.
    
I still don't know how we were "messengers of doom."
      
If MobyGames and Wikipedia are to be believed, Ishar 2 never had a North American release, which explains why Computer Gaming World never got to it. The magazine did offer a preview, in a larger article about European games, in the January 1994 issue. Calling the two previous titles "pretty grim" and "very continental in approach," it didn't predict good things from Messengers of Doom. MobyGames's round-up of reviews shows a lot of them, ranging from 54% in the German Power Play to 93% in the English CU Amiga. The average is about 80%, but wow is there a bifurcation, with almost all the German reviews below that mean and almost all of the English ones above it. The English reviews, particularly the Amiga ones, are predictably in love with the graphics ("among the most breathtaking seen on the Amiga" says CU Amiga), which I've already agreed with, but they're not, you know, everything, particularly when it comes to RPGs. The German ones are more in line with my own feelings, still praising the graphics but noting weaknesses in the gameplay and story. The one French review on the site, from the December 1993 Tilt, weighs in at exactly 80%, which I find refreshingly non-jingoistic. 
    
A modest review in the July 1993 The One (86%) has an important insight: "It's still very easy to lose the thread of the plot and end up wandering around without a clue as to what you're meant to be doing." This is exactly what I mean by the relative incompetence of the storytelling and game world.  
    
I put Ishar 3 on the 1994 game list, I guess mostly because it seemed silly to play two games in a trilogy and not the third, but I can't say I'm looking forward to more warm tears and ding-dong-dings. YouTube videos suggest that it has the same engine as Ishar 2. It appears to let you both import and create party members. The graphics seem mostly as nice as ever, but reviews appear to be even worse than for Ishar 2.
     
It's nice to have won a game. It's been a couple of months. I'm going to need you to be patient for just a bit longer, though. One calamity after another has rolled right into the busy opening month of the fall semester, and as you can see from the dates on this entry, I've been having trouble finding time to write about game sessions that have already taken place, let alone playing new games. Things always improve by Columbus Day. 

80 comments:

  1. I looked back through your old entries and it seems like someone told you that Grimz's daughter had been blinded by Shandar. But I didn't find what I was looking for, which is why you are killing Shandar at all. Other than that he seems like a jackass who does mean things. But is there a particular problem that you are solving by killing him? I guess this is what you were saying about the story.

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  2. Congratulations on finishing this one up! Or should I say... Dwingelingildidong?

    I note that Olbar greets the party with "Bitter tear" -- is that a counterpoint of some sort to "Warm tear" ?

    Finally, you really had me worried with Grimzel. A young sorceress joins the party near the end of the game... I suddenly had a vivid flashback to the endgame of Fate: Gates of Dawn. I'm glad things didn't go down that (rat-)rabbit hole.

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    1. A vivid flashback to a vivid (but apparently for some deadly) "flash"(ing) and not just of the "back"(side)... luckily, we were spared that weirdness here.

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    2. Isn't a bitter tear just another name for some schnapps, or am I missing some context?

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    3. Wait... is Warm Tear a nice hello because of tears of joy to see someone, while Bitter Tear is more tears of sadness?

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    4. That's what I was wondering, @Zack. But at this point, the world may never know.

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  3. Forgive me for raising the specter of politics, but you may want to change that second caption, lest some piece of software takes it out of context and puts you on the naughty list. Feel free to delete this comment, too.

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  4. A fair assessment overall, I remember that it was one of the first games where I realised that graphics are nice and all but they don't make a game.

    My memory is hazy, but I think you can use the monkey to help find secret doors? No idea what the plant and mouse are for.

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    1. I think Silmarils has quite the reputation for games that look amazing but the gameplay isn't quite on the level.

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    2. The frustrating thing is that it seems it wouldn't have taken too much effort to improve it - just add a few more lines of dialog explaining the plot and cluing the puzzles better and have more enemies drop gold.

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    3. It's a pity because some new things these games introduced - the recruiting / dismissing / party 'spirit' mechanics or now having trained animals for certain tasks - seem like they could be interesting. However, in practice the attractivity of their gameplay effects suffers from a lack of transparency. For the former, it's not really clear which factors play a role and how and the puzzle uses for the latter are not sufficiently hinted at.

      As for the monkey, apparently, after freeing Grimzel, there is a secret passage behind an invisible wall with a lever you can't reach because it's behind a closed grate/grille door, but the monkey can (slip through the bars and operate it, I assume).

      I think the day/night cycle was new in this one compared to the first. Nicely done - at least graphically, again.

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  5. Look up the comments to one of your earlier Ishar 2 entries - I remember some commenter there attempted to do the final dungeon without Grimz and succeeded.

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    1. Come to think of this, reviving the first druid and getting the shield also seems quite optional.

      --- RandomGamer

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  6. Congrats on a win, though this one seemed a bit tiresome.
    Funny how the other current lower-key games have a bit more interest than this AA style title huh

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  7. Congratulations on 'another one down'.

    Regarding the "recommended" threshold, were you maybe referring to this comment you made in early 2021?

    "I do agree that the "recommended" threshold probably has to adjust. Starting with a base of around 30 in 1980 would do it, incrementing one point per year. By 1995, if a game isn't hitting 45, there's something fundamentally wrong."

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  8. At a point, as a young uni student who would get his hands on just about any RPG he could, I remember dubbing Ishar 2 the worst RPG I ever played.

    Should the Gimlet reflect (by lowering the score) the fact there's at least a walking dead scenario in this game? It's one of the reasons I don't rate EOB2 (and in that case it has the excuse of being reasonably immediate)

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    1. Turns out there's rather a lot of RPGs that have a walking dead scenario; see https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnintentionallyUnwinnable (scroll down for RPGs or check the subpage for e.g. the Ultima series in particular).

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    2. That list is interesting. I think Quest for Glory 1 is inaccurate because if you know where to go, you can run in, get the mandrake, and run out, avoiding the spirits. I think - I could be misremembering...

      Also King's Quest 5 had "royal moments". Mouse cursor would change and you had to do something royal/regal/honorable that very moment, otherwise you'd go into a walking dead scenario (like saving a rat from a cat, iirc).

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    3. I question having an Infocom page at all. Infocom adventures were filled with 100% intentional unwinnable scenarios.

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    4. Well, TVtropes IS a wiki that you can add information to :)

      That said, I have played KQ5 in the past and do not recall anything about "royal moments" or having heard about a changing mouse cursor. Maybe that's only the case for a specific port of the game?

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    5. I always did find it funny how much those EoB2 scenarios irked you, Pedro. While the impact of them is low (reload the previous room), the egregious part is they are -intentionally- coded as walking dead. It doesn't bother me (just reload), but you can get the loot in both cases.

      I'd only consider as seriously bad those scenarios where you don't know you're walking dead until hours down the road.

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    6. There's a few timed puzzles in KQ5, I've never heard them as "royal moments" though. I think when the game pauses for a cutscene or an animation the cursor changes to a crown? The worst part of those puzzles is that you can solve them in the wrong way, and cause yourself a problem later (using the wrong item in one puzzle, because it's supposed to be used in a different puzzle).

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    7. Also, whacking a cat with an old boot (or eating meat instead of pie) is not exactly "regal" or "honorable" :P

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    8. hehe Delfayne, you are right, it probably annoys me more than it should :) I think it might be because it's in a game that receives more praise than it's worth imo

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  9. I'm not a Dragonlance expert but that blue guard isn't a complete replica of Lord Verminaard?

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    1. Yeah, I suspect that when I first played and saw him, it might be part traced - http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/tracing/tracing.htm this used to happen a lot back there, I am not seeing it is the case...

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  10. > Is it possible that this word doesn't sound as idiotic in French?
    nope :D

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    1. This word alone firmly triggered my goofiness limit haha

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  11. 5 points for graphics, sound and interface, lol. Even if this would not have any sound, graphics in Ishars is the best in DOS cRPG, piece of art. I stopped reading this blog after the Betrayal at Krondor, guess that I would take another break.

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    1. LOL. Chet has only explained and discussed like, what?, 50 times or so how the GIMLET and specifically the GSI category works for him after people complained or at least questioned it similarly.

      Of course, if you don't read the blog for long stretches, you'll miss out on most of those. Always a good idea to just pop in somewhere and criticize things without knowing and understanding the context.

      Oh, wait, do I now count as 'flaming lackey'? Then just forget my comment and let's go back to just ignoring this.

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    2. Would you by chance have been an English Amiga reviewer?

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    3. No, an Amiga fan would have said that as much as there are more colours on the DOS version and it moves better, the sound in Amiga and the looks are the proper and original ones for the game and hence the ones that make the game a masterpiece.

      Snarky Risingson out

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    4. The interface was the single biggest thing hindering my enjoyment of Ishar 1. Exactly what Chet said about re cooldowns. And spells are too cumbersome to click through in combat. A few tweaks here alone would have made combat more competent

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    5. Imagine being as insecure as this Danny fellow. Can he even put on pants in the morning?

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    6. It amuses me that before the end of the 1990s, we'll have the opposite problem. I'll be rating almost everything 9 or 10, and people will be shouting at me that the game can't possibly rate that high because it "doesn't have enough sprites" or something.

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    7. @CRPG Addict, you won't be marking everything "9 to 10" by the end of the 90es.

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    8. ...especially because the late 90s are THE era of mouse-only interfaces.

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    9. Maybe not 9-to-10, but 8-to-9, sure. Fits the logic so far. We're going to get to the point where virtually every professional effort can hit a 'perfectly fine' on 2 of the 3 parts of that smooshed category, 'ok' on interface despite being mouse-only, and some of them might get an extra point for immersive-ness.

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    10. I, for one, disagree. I don’t like these Ishar graphics at all they are crowded, busy, over saturated and confusing, with weird perspectives/compositions/colors. Lands of Lore was the best looking game of the year.

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    11. For all my respect for the original Fallouts, their UI was such a chore that it would warrant subtracting points for.

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    12. I recently tried replaying the old Fallouts and indeed, I couldn't believe how poor the interface(s) were. We really weren't too picky in 1997!

      Fortunately Baldur's Gate had a great interface

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    13. @VK, in terms of graphics, I mostly thought of a trend of switching everything to half-baked 3D. Think Wizards and Warriors.

      I replayed both Fallouts this year, and the interface to me was pretty OK. If anything, in my mind both Fallouts and BG were obvious candidates for 9-10 in that category. Fallouts, however, had a pretty uneven combat system, and BG was not much in terms of quests. Yes, it was above average, but not great.

      -- RandomGamer

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  12. I was going to make fun of the name "Grimz" by comparing to the current gamer guy Grimmz. Except it turns out that the guy I was thinking of is Grummz. And there's a different streamer named Grimmmz. So now I'm going to make fun of "Grimz" for almost being two different goofy names that gamer guys use.

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    1. But do either of them have a daughter named Grummzel/Grimmmzel?

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    2. And do they spout nonsense about twinkly dildongs?

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    3. Let's just say that "smart, but nothing else" doesn't describe Grummz well, and it's not because he's something else.

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  13. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  14. Congratulations!

    I find myself agreeing with your score, since I too enjoyed Ishar I more that the Ishar II, still the sequel had ideas and ambition, but does stumble in some stuff, such as having this more "complex" history and questline (for the time) that however often is easy to get lost (or even softlock) with a poor translation and documentation that does not help.

    The visuals which I enjoyed is often more the way which the world is represented, I still find very cleaver the trick they pull to give illusion that you are climbing a mountain.

    Will some scene were quite good, as some character portraits, the enemies were not so much impressive and the usage of either digital photos, traced or some really impressive pixel art in some scenes (such as the one with Zeldy) look good but out of place with the rest of the art.

    Since you might play Ishar III, I apologize for posting the link to my own blog post, but I will leave it here, since there I comment on the different versions of the game and the technical issues I had (that game can crash a lot) plus the really weird previews - https://www.giantbomb.com/profile/valorianendymion/blog/ishar-iii-the-seven-gates-of-infinity/276307/

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  15. I definitely enjoyed this game more than you did, even though I totally understand most of your criticisms about it. I doubt I'd have much patience with it today, but back in the 90s, playing it during winter recess, it really captured my imagination, for whatever reason. I didn't like Ishar 3 quite as much, but I suspect I still enjoyed it more than you will.

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  16. "very continental in approach,"

    That's some choice of words from the CGW, take notice ;)

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  17. I hear you about Ishar 2, but here's the competition from 1993 (meaning blobber RPG's in general):

    Ambermoon - 53
    Dungeon Hack - 33
    EoB 3 - 29
    Lands of Lore - 39
    M&M: Dark Side of Xeen - 42
    Dungeon Master II - 37

    Ishar II's score is not too bad for 1993, and there clearly was a group of players that preferred its strengths to the alternatives. As far as Ambermoon goes, I feel that it is just too long.

    Raising the recommended threshold to 41 may have unintended consequences. I think this blog got stuck on 1993 for a bit too long; time to move forward.

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    1. Agreed, a threshold that excludes Lands of Lore feels too low. The game has issues, but it's undoubtedly a quality game that was worth playing in the DOS VGA era.

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    2. Yeah, you said it. Was worth playing in the DOS Vga era, when even at the peak of rampant piracy we had a very limited selection of games and way less context than we have now.

      And I would say that even in the DOS vga era it was an acquired taste. Fans of the game are very much fans of it, but you can say the same thing about any jrpg in existence for example.

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    3. To each his own, but I'm not sure it's worth arguing much about a couple points in each direction. I'm not going to repeat everything that Chet himself and others have said in numerous discussions, just brief points as a reminder:

      - The GIMLET represents what -he- values how in a game, so if you have different views e.g. on the importance of the/an in-game economy, the details of graphics or about music as a factor, you'd have to adjust individually. Or directly focus more on the content of the analysis than on the numerical values.

      - It's impossible to be totally consistent over time and a few points up or down might just depend on a momentaneous mood (as he says here himself). So it shouldn't be more than a rough orientation.

      - The "recommended" threshold is not cast in stone. A game might have a lower score than it, but still be recommendable to those who value certain aspects because it focuses on these elements and is strong in them (e.g. roguelikes). And vice versa can a game be less than the sum of its parts.

      - The GIMLET is intended to reflect our host's enjoyment of a game from a current perspective, not if a game was worth playing when it came out 30+ years ago or its historical importance or the like.

      Delete
    4. Sure, RG makes okay arguments. I clearly haven't thought a LOT about raising the "recommended" threshold, which itself was always an informaility anyway. Did I really rate LoR that low? Wow.

      Delete
    5. I get the score as a score of how CRPG addict enjoyed the game, and how those elements were adding to the enjoyment. I really love Lands of Lore, but I think his reasoning for the score of it were perfectly understandable - some elements are irritating, were irritating then, but as it happens with many canonical things (I am thinking that the sci fi literature canon is a perfect example) we tend to forget the weak or arguable stuff and only remember the good stuff.

      And we tend also to align our opinions with the canon.

      Delete
    6. AlphabeticalAnonymousSeptember 21, 2025 at 1:06 PM

      Until someone embarks on a similarly comprehensive project, my default is to take these CRPGAddict scores as the canon.

      Delete
    7. Lands of Role?

      Delete
    8. the writeup is so good so the numbers are mostly just an afterthought, amusing but not total relevant... it is chets at the time impression of the game... text is more relevant and important.

      Delete
    9. this is only me and my opinion I like the blog but am in no way associated with chet .I am sorry if someone think anything else.

      Delete
    10. Oh, come on, a simple typo gets you going? It's obvious that "LoR" stands for "Low Rating" ;-).

      For ease of reference, here is a quote from the final rating entry:

      "That gives us a final score of 39. That's where I thought it would fall. I put the Beholder games at 41 and 40. While Lore clearly improves on them in some ways, it doesn't give enough attention to its RPG roots to exceed those previous efforts."

      And here is a thread in the comments to that entry where he and others discuss the rating for Lands of Lore (mainly compared to Dungeon Master) and in this context the GIMLET more generally. Seems to me most of the arguments are probably still the same these couple years later, but you can judge for yourself.

      Delete
    11. @RisingtonCarlos, living through the peak of "rampant piracy" of the 90es, I'm not sure if it helped or hurt more. I've never heard of half of the big RPG's of 1993 prior to this blog, since everyone was playing the pirated "greatest hits", so stuff like Bloodstone: An Epic Dwarven Tale (I'm certain I've made a bunch of mistakes in the title, but I'm too lazy to check) went completely unnoticed.

      Delete
  18. CRPG moments: pay $40.000 for fancy dresses to gain entry to a party, only to see a Goblin with a plain orange t-shirt.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The goblin is clearly the headliner of the night.

      Delete
  19. I laughed out loud when I read about the three tiny single fireworks you got after fighting all your way through several islands. I imagined the party then sitting in the castle with a glass of cheap wine, two pieces of bread and a tough piece of meat.

    I also want to mention that there is no summary yet for this final entry of the game.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Is there any column on the master list to filter those 25 chosen for 1994?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. https://crpgaddict.blogspot.com/2025/08/moving-forward-1994-game-list.html

      Delete
    2. I mean a column on the master list spreadsheet at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0Ar06A8hYXxv3dEFVbWJzb1J5S3BqWjRDRng2TUxkUVE&usp=sharing

      Delete
  21. "With the baboon, mouse, and man-eating plant still unused in our packs (...), we entered the final chambers."

    I think this is the single most amazing/horrible sentence in CRPG review history. In my mind, it automatically got added to the last entry of each of your previous reviews, completely destroying the epic tension of all those games. Thanks :)

    ReplyDelete
  22. In Ishar II, attacks are done by F1-F5 cluster, and movements are on keyboard as well. Spells are, as far as I understand, not.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. F1-F5 do not execute attacks. I wish they did. They instead activate the "action" button, from which you can dismiss, recruit, or kill party members. You use those options a lot less than combat.

      Delete
    2. F6-F10 "emulate the fight icons" according to the manual. I remember Ishar I used the F2-F10 (even keys) but since in 2 the attack icons are clustered in a more sane way and I had 2 people in the front line most of the time I always used the mouse.

      Delete
  23. > Things always improve by Columbus Day.

    I've not read that, but the title sounds pretty inspirational at least!

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  24. The baboon is needed to open a grate somewhere on Akeer's Island. Likely, you used a spell to open it, as you did earlier with the cell door in the prison. The mouse and the plant are either red herrings or a parts of some puzzles what were never implemented.

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  25. Um oh hey! I found this site while looking for a game some friends have been looking for, and maybe the community here might help? There's no pressure and please ignore this if it's too bothersome, though! Also apologies for hijacking the post.

    According to them it's a 'mega drive/snes-era game in which you worked in a modern city. The NPCs were anthropomorphic animals, like people with animal heads. The game gave an animal crossing, "cozy" vibe to them. The POV seems to be isometric... or maybe platform. You could work on a cafe or restaurant, make deliveries, or eventually even work on a ship or something like that.

    I showed them Earthbound and they said the graphics were somewhat similar.

    It's so specific, yet I can't find anything quite like it. Does it ring a bell to anyone?

    It sounds like a modern retro game but they're saying it's actually an old game.

    Thank you very much for your time.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Also: Although they mentioned mega drive/snes, maybe it was a crpg. Once again, apologies if the question is too out of the scope or random, please feel free to delete or edit as needed.

      (also using this reply to activate the notification setting lol)

      Tyvm!

      Delete
  26. Perhaps a stupid question, but why do you keep invoking "Dungeon Master" so much in the review? This game is clearly not a DM-descendant; it has a real-time combat system that does not go well with real-time maneuvering, minimal amount of navigational/environmental puzzles, and the solutions to the main quest that have a completely different lineage.

    DM wasn't the first blobber, and I don't think it was the first blobber with real-time-with-cooldown combat. Why compare the incomparable? In a lot of the past reviews of similar games (Antares, Fate, etc.) you invoked Bard's Tale; perhaps it's a more fair comparison here?

    Not that it changes much; but, perhaps, it explains the itch this game was trying to scratch a bit better.

    -- RandomGamer

    ReplyDelete

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