Tuesday, August 8, 2023

Serpent Isle: What Ought to Be the Last Battle

Dupre urges me to quit this game.
      
As this session begins, Gwenno is resurrected and healed, but the Banes of Chaos are still inhabiting Iolo, Dupre, and Shamino--who are apparently holed up at the Castle of the White Dragon. Gwenno has suggested that I ask around Moonshade to see about caging the banes again.
   
I take the serpent gate system to Moonshade and begin a circuit. Fedabiblio has nothing new to say, though he seems to have taken over Gustacio's old house. Ducio is still working in his shop. 
     
I find Torrissio wandering around the magelord's palace again. With him, I have a new dialogue option of "soul trapping." "So thou dost seek to learn the ancient art of imprisoning souls within gems," he says. Well, no, not until now. He mentions that he gave the same information to Batlin, along with a warning that gems are not generally strong enough to keep souls of great power trapped. In exchange, he wants the Philanderer's Friend, which I have to go back and retrieve from the hub.
        
Uh . . . yeah. That's totally what I seek.
     
He says that souls can be imprisoned in Worm Gems with a special spell, which he gives me: "Create Soul Prism." I immediately transcribe it, and it fills in the final Level 4 slot. He says Ducio the Artisan can make those gems. 

Ducio, for his part, says that he'll need three worm hearts--and that Batlin also asked him for the gems. I tossed my reagent bag ages ago, I think back in the Silver Seed. I warp back there to grab the bag, and fortunately the game doesn't make me wait a week before returning--I guess that only applied when the quest was unfinished.
     
A brief return to the Silver Seed.
      
Ducio takes the hearts and makes me four worm gems--I figure best to have an extra. I cast "Create Soul Prism" on each of them, which for some reason turns them from spheres to cubes.
   
Back on Monk Isle, Gwenno tells me that to contain the Banes, I'll have to "take the soul cages and bathe them in the water of the temple that is connected to that Bane." No problem. Thanks to my last expedition, I've got the Waters of Emotion, Enthusiasm, and . . . bollocks. The Temple of Tolerance is the one I couldn't figure out. I head back there and mess around a while and still can't figure it out. There's  no fountain like the other temples, and dipping a bucket in the water surrounding the little island does nothing.
        
Keep talking, moron.
     
Scouting around, I return to the basement and speak to Sethys, Agent of Chaos, again (his presence here is still entirely unexplained). He continues to think I'm a servant of Order. Among other things, he gives me the hint that it turns out I need: "Even now, thou dost lust to topple the altar of this temple. But I shall not tell thee where it lies! I shall not aid thee in stopping the glorious waters which flow from it, nor shall I aid thee in placing the sacred containers upon it." That suggests that the Waters of Tolerance are collected by placing a bucket on the altar, not by dipping it into the existing waters. The problem is, I can't find an altar.
    
I'm sorry to say that I have to look up a hint for this one. In my defense, this game is so damned long that it's hard to remember things that happened 40 hours ago. The key is remembering that Mortegro, who I later found in this temple, standing where the altar should be, had been snatched from his own basement--and replaced with the altar from the temple. If I had re-read my own entry, I would have figured it out. I have to go back to Mortegro's basement, killing a random naga on the way, and place a bucket on the altar there. It fills automatically.
          
I should have gotten this one first.
       
With the three chaos waters now in my possession, I treat each of the soul prisms with one of them. This changes their colors and re-names them to Prism of Enthusiasm, Prism of Emotion, and Prism of Tolerance.
      
The three assembled prisms.
      
Nothing left to do but confront my former friends. I take the serpent gate to the north forest and walk to the castle. As I approach, packs of homicidal jesters keep teleporting near me and attacking. This gives me a chance to try out some of the Level 6 and 7 spells (see below). 
   
A scroll is at the foot of the drawbridge to the castle: "Come on in and join the party." A specter stands in the entry hall, shouting, "I am the King of the White Dragon!" He offers to "protect me" by taking me to the realm of death, then either turns into a blue dragon or summons a blue dragon. Either way, it's an easy battle and the King of the White Dragon is never seen again.
           
Good for you.
           
The Castle of the White Dragon has a main floor, an upper floor, and a basement. Each floor has numerous rooms with locked doors. The path through them is relatively linear and repetitive. As I enter each room, one of my possessed companions appears and delivers a gibe, joke, or threat, then leaves me to deal with some easy summoned creature. For instance, the first room I enter is full of mirrors. Iolo appears to say: "Come and see the freak show, Avatar!" The mirrors turn into duplicates of me--if I had a glass jaw. As they die, they turn into (I think) wildmen.
         
You should have gone with, "Time to sing your swan song, Avatar."
     
"Come and relax, Avatar," Shamino says as I enter a den. A nightmare is there to attack me. He runs off after one blow of my axe. "Come and dance a jig with these fine fellows, Avatar," Dupre mocks before leaving me to deal with half a dozen headless in a ballroom.
    
One of the rooms is a library. "I have some hot new titles for thee," Shamino puns as I enter. Three or four of the books are titled Great Practical Jokes, with Chapter One titled, "Exploding Books." As I close them, they all explode into fireballs--at the locations of the books. Fortunately, I'm reading them from half a screen away and don't take any damage. 
          
It's nice that the game lets you read books without actually taking them off the shelf.
       
A Journal of the King of the White Dragon fleshes out the story of the island, and Shamino's role in it, a bit more. It's written from the perspective of the King of the White Dragon as he rapidly descends into madness. The king claims that he used to rule the land alone, but he decided to share power with Shamino and even built Shamino his castle. Shamino then asked for the king's daughter, Beatrix, in marriage. The king happily sent his daughter to Shamino's castle. But around this time, Shamino became obsessed with Mondain, went to seek advice from Lord British, and never returned. Beatrix died of a broken heart. As for the King of the White Dragon, it sounds from his journal like he invited all his subjects to a blow-out Solstice Festival and then poisoned them. That would explain the corpses all over the place.
   
As usual, Origin manages to create all kinds of problems with the existing lore. Shamino is in his castle during the events of Ultima, so clearly he didn't wander off to help Lord British defeat Mondain. It would have made more sense if he'd gone to help defeat Minax, perhaps doing something useful in Sosaria while the player character was foiling her plans on Earth. I suppose that doesn't fit the story of how Serpent Isle spun off from Sosaria when Mondain's gem was destroyed, but they could have made that the result of something that Minax did, or even Exodus. And the backstory for the king's madness is pretty lame. He went homicidally insane because Shamino abandoned his daughter? No one with such poor coping skills ought to be king in the first place.
      
I thought this ballroom was pretty neat.
      
There's another book called A Treatise on Torture, written by the King of the White Dragon's servant, Evad, and wow, is it gruesome. It describes how the king tortured one of his guests by tying tourniquets on all four of his limbs and causing necrosis. He apparently killed his own wife by sewing her into a bull's carcass and letting her get pecked to death by "vultures and other carrion beasts."
         
I got this message a lot in the castle.
        
I don't find keys to all of the doors in the castle, but I do find my way to the throne room, where fountains spew blood, statues shoot fireballs, fire belches from the floor, and the three Banes sit in thrones at the far end. Iolo speaks for the three of them: "I had almost tired of waiting for thee, Avatar. Thou'rt some hero . . . it took thee long enough."
    
Expecting a modestly-hard battle, I am unprepared for what happens, which is that I die in about two seconds. On a reload, I try various spells, but either they don't work ("Time Stop") or it appears that the Banes are immune to them. I try summoning creatures to occupy them, but they have eyes only for me and charge right through my cyclopes and skeletons. I try buffing with "Might" and "Protection," but it just wastes spell points. I reject an obvious solution--going back to the serpent gate hub and returning with a party of automatons--just because I don't feel like making the walk through the swamp again.
         
I don't know what I'm casting here, but it doesn't work.
       
After a while, I manage to flee out of the chamber, trap Dupre and Iolo on the other side of a wall, and fight Shamino one-on-one. I prepare to heal every time my health gets low. But he manages to kill me, at full health, in a single blow.
   
I  finally consult a spoiler site in desperation. It turns out that the Banes will only die if attacked with the Black Sword. Apparently, you need to trap them in the Black Sword's gem. If this was explained anywhere by any NPC, I forgot about it or didn't record it in the first place. It doesn't really make sense to me. Clearly, Batlin managed to trap them (if only briefly) in prisms, and he didn't have the Black Sword. Why couldn't I just duct-tape the prisms to my axe and kill them with that weapon? Why do I even need the prisms if the Black Sword will contain them? 
        
I and my army of summoned skeletons march to our doom.
         
Not being able to kill them doesn't explain why they're able to kill me so easily. I think the game decides to just kill you if you're using the wrong weapon rather than give you the false hope that would come from a longer combat.
    
Even with the Black Sword, the combat isn't easy. For some reason, I find it easier to kill them if I lead them outside the throne room. I have to cast "Great Heal" several times during the battle. But one by one, they go down. "I shall not forget that thou hast beaten me, vile human!" Shamino screams. "Vanquished by a mere mortal!" Dupre howls. As for Iolo:
          
You got that from Shamino, two minutes ago, right? Yeah, I heard him, too. You gonna plagiarize the whole thing? Do you have any thoughts of your own on this matter?
       
(In later experimentation, conducted after I have this entire entry drafted, I discover that they're not actually immune to magic, nor to non-Black Sword weapon damage. They just won't take any damage from anything unless you're holding the Black Sword. "Death Vortex" and other instant-death spells actually work quite well as long as the Avatar is holding the Black Sword when he casts them. Presumably, they can also be killed by other companions, if you have any, as long as the Avatar is wielding the Black Sword.)
     
When all three are dead before me, the Banes presumably in the gem of the Black Sword, I double-click the hourglass and summon Thoxa to resurrect them. She returns them all to life, but just as with Gwenno and Cantra, they're all insane. No problem. I just need to heal them with the Waters of Logic, Ethicality and . . . oh, #$%*. I used the Water of Discipline on Gwenno. And that was the one where I had to walk through acid. Leaving the three of them standing in the castle halls, I walk all the way back to the serpent gate in the North Forest, return to the hub, return to the Temple of Discipline, walk through the acid (stopping to heal myself every few steps), get the water, and reverse the whole process. That takes like 20% of this game session.
       
Let's not be hasty.
       
Back in the castle, I definitely take the time to review the companions' previous statements carefully to determine which of them needs which bucket of water. I don't just save and do it through trial and error, no sir. That would be lame.
   
With all three of them restored, I double-click on them to talk to them, and guess what they have to say about the last 20 hours of the game? Nothing. Not one word. They have no reaction to being possessed by Banes, no reaction to having slaughtered most of the game world. The only dialogue options are "Join" and "Bye." Only Iolo has any new dialogue, expressing happiness that Gwenno is alive--something I must have told him off-screen. 
       
You clueless idiot.
      
I get ready to walk back to a serpent gate and then go to the serpent gate hub to re-equip my companions, but suddenly Karnax's face is on the screen: "The bells are signaling the return of Xenka! Thou art the Hero from Another World. It is for thee that she doth return. We must hurry!" We're suddenly teleported to the chapel on Monk Isle, where an undulating star ("the energies from beyond the Void," according to Karnax) eventually turns into Xenka herself.
       
Make up your minds.
       
Xenka immediately starts berating the monks for not recording her prophecies accurately. "I knew that if I did not promise to return that these laggard monks would drift away from the task I set them," she grouses. "As it is, they have nearly brought disaster upon us all."
   
In subsequent conversation, she doesn't really explain what she means. She does fill in a bit of her backstory: she was a commoner, a wife, and a mother when she was suddenly seized by prophecy. Her husband took her to the mages of Moonshade, but they dismissed her, saying she was crazy. She has a particular scorn for those mages, interpreting their schism with Lord British not as a quest for freedom but as a way to avoid being tied to the virtue of honesty (as Moonglow subsequently was). 
       
Why did you have to leave in the first place?
       
Xenka says she'll help me if I don't know what to do next. She gives me the final Serpent's Tooth and says, "Thou must seek the Dead on the Isle of Crypts." I'm frankly not sure why I need to do anything at all. Batlin is dead, Gwenno is alive, Balance is restored. Why can't I get on a ship and go home? In fact, let's just say I did that. Game over.
    
No? I suppose not. Very well. I spend half an hour finding the tooth in my pack, then add it to the jawbone. While I'm on the subject, I didn't discover until this entry that "J" calls up the jawbone automatically and "B" calls up the spellbook. This whole time, I had been opening my pack, clearing items out of the way, and double-clicking on them. I should have figured it out; I already knew that "K" activates the key ring and "M" opens the map (among others). I'm sure it was in the manual that I read six months ago.
    
It takes me another half hour to re-equip everyone back at the serpent gate hub, mostly because when the automatons dropped their items, all the stuff came out of their packs. I have to shift a mountain of gems, coins, gold bars, and potions to get at the weapons and armor underneath. When I'm done, all of the companions have melee weapons--the magic axes that I know I had are nowhere to be found. 
         
Trying to find my party's equipment amidst a bunch of treasure I can't spend.
         
Xenka's Serpent Tooth activates the last serpent gate, which dumps us on the Isle of Crypts, far to the northwest. On arrival, the party immediately starts complaining about the cold. They can go screw themselves. My days of micromanaging a separate inventory of warm gear are long gone. Anyway, it's not long before we find a cave entrance. "PEACE TO THOSE WHO FOLLOW THE PATH OF THE SERPENT," a plaque announces as we enter. We start exploring and, bloody hell, this is going to be another Whole Thing. I'll have to do it later.
      
Time so far: 99 hours
       
Comments on Level 6/7 Spells

Level 6
 
Betray. Works like "Charm" in most games, causing an enemy to turn on his companions. It would be more useful in a more tactical, less chaotic game. (That line applies to just about every spell in the game.) Would have been great in the Banes battle if they weren't immune. In this game, I can't think of any battle with multiple high-level foes where it would make a difference. Most likely, I'd fail to remember which enemy was charmed and just attack him.
    
Dispel Illusion. "Destroys the knots of force that create an illusion, affecting structures and creatures alike." I've probably been under-utilizing this one. I verified during this session that it identifies (and opens) secret doors. I don't really know what else it does. Are there any places in the game with illusory creatures? 
     
The spell opens a secret door in the wall that I could normally just walk through.
     
Cause Fear. Sends all enemies fleeing in panic. Not bad, but for 3 more spell points, you can kill them all and get the experience; for 1 less, you can put them all to sleep and kill them without having to hunt them down.  Not a good choice for battles where you absolutely need to kill someone because now you have to find him.
    
"Cause Fear" sends multiple enemy jesters fleeing into the swamp.
         
Fire Field. Creates a single-square burning field of fire on the ground, which I guess you hope enemies walk through. If they do, it damages them a couple of hit points. Also damages you if you walk through it, so best not to cast it in a corridor you're going to have to traverse again. Unless I'm missing something, not worth the spell points. Also, the fire appears to be blue, and the syllables are IN FRIO GRAV, so despite the spell's name, I think you're really creating a cold field.
 
Fire Ring. Creates a bunch of fire fields in a circle. They last a fraction of the time as "Fire Field" and there's nothing about a circle that particularly makes sense for this spell. A wall would be better. Similar to "Fire Field," the spell's syllables suggest that the "fire" field is actually cold.
         
I cast "Fire Ring" on some alligators. It seems cruel.
      
Cold Strike. Man, this level really goes with a theme. This one causes cold flames to erupt at the feet of every non-party member on-screen, so you don't want to cast it with NPCs or penguins around. I rather like it. Because it targets enemies wherever they are, there's no need to get them in a cluster, and there are no issues with timing. Rarely kills, though.
 
Create Ammo. Creates arrows or bolts, "depending on which weapon the caster's party has more of." If you like magic bows, it's a great spell when coupled with the third-level "Enchant Missiles."
 
Create Automaton. A great spell for creating companions for yourself if you don't like the original party or if they've gone and gotten themselves possessed. You have to have a dead automaton to cast it on, so it's really more of a "Revive Automaton" spell. I used it to pack a bunch of gear out of the City of Order, but I wasn't interested in having automaton companions permanently.
 
Level 7
 
Energy Field.  Basically creates a magic wall. I guess you could use it to stop an enemy from chasing you, but it's not hard to get away from them as it is. In a more tactical game, it could be used to shape the combat terrain more favorably. The fields don't last very long, though.
     
Trapping Isstanar in his room.
      
Energy Mist. Creates less of a "mist" and more of a wad of sparkles  that do damage to anyone they pass through.
 
Mass Awaken. Wakes up everyone in the party who's asleep. I'm not sure I've ever been in a position in which multiple party members were asleep.
 
Mass Might. Raises everyone's attributes about a dozen points each. The effects in combat are less obvious than they should be; random numbers govern more than attributes. As with "Mass Protection," when I experiment on polar bears, I don't notice a major difference in the amount of time it takes me to kill them. Still, it wouldn't hurt to have it going more often than I do.
     
Over-buffing before a battle with a spider.
     
Poison Mist. Creates a column of noxious vapor that poisons everyone who walks through it. This causes them to take a point of damage every couple of seconds until it wears off after about a minute. Absolutely useless unless you had some reason to kill someone without attacking him directly, and even then a poison potion would target them directly and be less likely to affect your own characters.
 
Restoration. Heals everyone of all wounds and poisons. I haven't been casting it because I haven't had a party, but I suspect it will be my default healing spell for the rest of the game.
 
Vibrate. Weird spell. The book says that it causes targets to shake. "The effect not only damages the subject but also loosens any hold on possessions." In fact, it doesn't seem to damage them at all--nor even make them hostile--and it causes them to drop all their stuff on the ground. This creates some weird situations. For instance, when I try it randomly on Fedabilbo in Moonshade, it causes him to drop two potions, a lightning bolt which I can't move or pick up ("too heavy!") and a backpack with several reagents but also some kind of pulsating wand that the game won't even acknowledge when I click on it. If this game weren't so long, I'd be tempted to go around and cast it on everyone. I wonder if you can use this to get quest items without doing the quests. Next time someone gives me something, I'm going to reload and try it.
      
Fedabilbo spills all his loot.
             
Lightning. Blasts a single target with lightning. Cool, but for a couple more points, I can just kill them outright.
 

104 comments:

  1. After you have talked with the two... let's call them ancient dudes, ping us in the comments.

    There might be a few issues ahead that some of us SI veterans can help you with.

    Gur vffhr vf n cbffvoyr cybgfgbccvat oht gung vaibyirf Kraxn, xrljbeq "fnpevsvpr" naq Frecrag Fgnss. Vg'f nyy fbyinoyr, ohg vaibyirf n srj furanavtnaf.

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  2. I don't recall exactly in game where it is, but someone advises you to hang on to "the shade blade" by which they mean the Black Sword. Why they are calling is something completely different I can't say.

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    1. And ho boy do I expect the GIMLET on this one to take a hit based on how frustrated you sound!

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    2. Should we point out that at least some of the frustration is of his own making? Chet can only blame himself for not using "J" and "B" shortcut keys for the past 100 hours.

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    3. The lesson here is that Chet should complain immediately about everything that even slightly annoys him so that commenters can point out any solutions he may have overlooked.

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    4. "The Shade Blade" is one of the ways Arcadion introduces himself when first bound to the sword in Forge of Virtue. If that name is ever used in SI I'm not seeing it in the script. Thoxa tells you right at the start of the game that you need the black sword to finish your quest.

      Gustacio's corpse has a letter from Melino that tells you 1) the black sword could contain another spirit and 2) you need to fix it with the Flux Analyzer to do that. Torrissio also goes out of his way to say that the gem on the sword looks like a soul prism if you ask him about them.

      But yeah, the game never explicitly tells you "you need to fix the black sword and kill the Banes with it".

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    5. I'm sure the clues were there, and I guess I should have just adopted a better note-taking system. I don't think I expected the game to last so long that I'd actively forget half of it while still playing.

      When the King of the White Dragon's journal talked about the castle being besieged by goblins, my first thought was, "Goblins?! There are no goblins in the Ultima universe, at least not since the first trilogy." I think I was actually in the process of writing that in this entry when I realized that the entire first act of the game consisted of defeating goblins.

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    6. As for "B" and "J," you don't get the jawbone and the spellbook until fairly deep into the game, at which point I was largely done investigating the keyboard controls.

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    7. "you don't get the jawbone and the spellbook until fairly deep into the game"

      Unless you do Moonshade first. :)

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  3. Vibrate is an absolutely broken spell, the "possessions" being every item, weapon and spell/ability a target has on them. Not entirely sure why it's in the game, but certainly an interesting one.

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    1. It's a typical sandbox spell, similar to Pickpocket back in U6 (which, among others, lets you steal meat from *inside a sheep*).

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    2. I know one of my theology classes revealed that some of the church fathers interpreted the lack of death in the world before the fall to mean not that Adam and Eve were vegetarians, but that prelapsarian animals could "shed" meat without harm to themselves.

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    3. Which is basically the same as the never-ending pig in nordic mythology.

      Cut off a nice slab o'meat and watch it grow right back....

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    4. You've reminded me of the great `How come that pig has a wooden leg?' joke.

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    5. Ah, thanks, Andy It's the spell effects that I'm seeing in the dump pile but can't actually touch.

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  4. We learn now that Torrissio outright told Batlin that his plan wouldn't work. Looks like Batlin was blinded by his own arrogance, again!

    I find the bit with the Black Sword fairly clever, because the Black Sword was forged specifically to contain the soul of Arcadion (but I can't blame you for not remembering after such a long game). Presumably Batlin instead used some trick he leard in Skara Brae (which he is known to have visited, and where the local quest involves soul-capturing Horance). And, well, Batlin DID fail and had the banes escape from him.

    And I love the ridiculous picture for the King of the Dragon.

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    1. Another thing that's fairly clever is that the game has quietly set you up with a personal item from each companion (Dupre's shield, Shamino's poetry book, Iolo's lute) and the Hound of Doskar.

      But I could have done without the whole prophecy deus-ex-machina.

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  5. As I understand it, that "lightning bolt" that Fedabilbo dropped is how they programmed the game to have him cast the spell it represents, without worrying about reagents or spell points. Other NPCs do similar with the spells they cast.

    Yes, Vibrate is seriously broken. Both in terms of "it gets you stuff you shouldn't have" and "it's bugged because it does more than it should", since they didn't fix the spell to only drop held equipment.

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    1. In Ultima 6, when you cast "Vanish" on a chest, sometimes amongst the items there's a string of letters forming EFF, but you can't interact with it. I assume it's a similar thing. That EFF is a trap spell code, that now just has to be there, without a chest, on the dungeon floor, unactivated... forever.

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    2. Vibrate is a verry handy (and broken) spell for combats with liches, especially Aram-Dol from Silver Seed. The game treats enemy spells like inventory items, which means he 'drops' them all on a successful cast of the spell. Having said this, the spell isn't follproof, I remember having to reload 3 times before he 'dropped' his spells, but certainly turned the tide of the battle when it did work.

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    3. Heh, EFF looks wildly hexadecimal!

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  6. "There's another book called A Treatise on Torture written by the King of the White Dragon's servant, Evad".

    I can see three Davids/Daves in the mobygames credits for the game. Since one is a beta tester and another Dave Watson (music, inspiration/model for Iolo), my bet would be on David/Dave Beyer who is among those persons credited with "Level / Scenario Design" (also for the Silver Seed expansion). Which, based on Chet's experience with the game up to this point and especially the latter parts, would make sense regarding the title of the in-game book... .

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  7. Having never played, nor had the desire to play, any of the Ultimas other than the Underworlds, I am glad I have had your blog to participate in this series. I will be even more glad though when this game is in the rearview, seems like a perfect example of overstating it's welcome and not knowing when to quit

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    1. I don't know if a typo, autocorrect, troll for the pedantic, or a malapropism, but I really can't help but mention that it's "overstaying its welcome."

      Overstating one's welcome would be like yelling, "I'M EXTREMELY GRATIFIED TO HAVE YOU IN MY PRESENCE!"

      Sorry to be that guy, you got me.

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    2. I think this blanket statement about Germans' linguistic behaviour is nonsense. But at least it's not melodramatic ;-). Just don't complain if anyone makes fun of stereotypes of 'Americans' / US citizens then in turn ;-P.

      Having said that, I've witnessed a real-life situation where two people were speaking about some mundane subject in German an a Spaniard asked why they were fighting ;-).

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    3. I've witnessed the same with different nationalities: two people were speaking about some mundane subject in Italian and an Irishman asked why they were fighting :D

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    4. Took me a minute to place the Germans Who Say Nice Things reference. Audible laughter was produced.

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  8. I always had minor (gamer) guilt for using walkthroughs (and likely cheats) to beat the second half of the game when it first came out. I loved Black Gate, so why wouldn't I love this? I always assumed it was my youth / inexperience but these entries have definitely shown that I was likely not the problem...

    I also tried a couple times to replay it (to check out Silver Seed) but never really got past the first three towns before giving up... Again, blaming lack of time / patience in my adulthood... And again, this blog has shown me that it's more likely the game's fault.

    Thanks for curing decades of (super minor, but still existing) guilt :-)

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    1. If you still want to check out Silver Seed, I think you can pretty much from the start.

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    2. He's already done the Silver Seed.

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    3. Sorry, Anonymous was me, and I see you were responding to Hadean, not Chet. :D

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  9. Nobody told me there'd be jesters...

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    1. Chuckles knew there'd be payback!

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  10. Your midadventures with the banes takes me back 25 years ago, when I too, had absolutely no idea that the black sword was necessary in this combat. I remember coming up with elaborate ways of trying to get through this hellish encounter. This included using the bloodleeting device you can get from Mortegro's house, with the backpack open, which pauses the game, which you can use repeatedly on an enemy to cause damage while they're effectively frozen. I recall this strategy got me through my first battle with Aram-Dol. But not here! So I'm weirdly glad to read that someone else had this exact same problem. Of all the lore and info that this game overstuffs itself with, I agree, there is nothing which explicitly states the need for the black sword in this battle. Indeed, up to this point the game seems to brush off the weapon, so it takes some extrapolation on the part of the player to figure this out.

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  11. I loved this game as a 12 -year-old, but wow... It's a lot more broken than I remember. I knew the GIMLET wouldn't approach U7: part 1, but I was hoping it would beat U6. I'd say that's a long shot at this point.

    Quick note on vibrate. If you cast it on a mage who has a spell unequipped, it will drop in their backpack/bag. You can then pick it up and equip it yourself. One NPC has a death bolt. Another has sword strike. Sword Strike is a lot of fun.

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    1. Ultima 6 is the second game in the “highest GIMLET score” list, while U7P1 does not even make the cut (although it does appear in the “must play” list).

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    2. I love the first Ultima 7 more than is reasonable but I’ll be the first to admit it’s a poor RPG.

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    3. Clearly, I haven't been paying attention. I just like 7.1 better than 6.

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    4. I would argue that Ultima 6 has most of the same flaws that Ultima 7 has.

      Even if you follow the intended plot sequence, after Hythloth Ultima 6 also turns into an extended adventure game. After meeting the gargoyles, you have no reason to build your characters for combat, because you already know that the final solution is just using the right items in the right place. You're done with obligatory fights and are you really motivated to go dungeon trekking now?

      Somewhat similar to what is happening with Serpent Isle in the latter half. Ultima 6 and 7 are both clearly done with a very similar vision in mind. What Origin did with Worlds of Ultima games supports my thesis. They were really into this concept of designing RPG's through an adventure game mindset.

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    5. By comparison, Ultima 6 does have a better combat system, more sensible economy, way more sandboxy object interactions, and a karma meter.

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    6. True about combat and economy, but way more sandboxy object interactions? In what way? I really can't see it.

      You can stack boxes on top of each other and build stairs in U7... that's how I entered the Fellowship Meditation Retreat, without joining the Fellowship.

      There's way more random stuff you can use in U7. What about the diapers? You can change baby diapers and then keep them as weapons. U6 doesn't have this much interaction.

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    7. How about blocking LB's throne with chests to shoot him with a cannon, then clone him, and charm the clone into fighting him?

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    8. To be honest, I've never even thought of trying something like that.

      But there's a clone spell in Ultima 7 also, so I guess, you should be able to clone Lord British in U7 too.

      And then you can throw dirty diapers at his face!

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    9. I think it's relatively pointless to debate whether U6 or U7 has the more impressive sandbox credentials. They were both so far ahead of anything else in their era that I'm happy to consider it a tie. That said, I'm not sure I would consider every enemy, beast or main, running screaming from dirty diapers the pinnacle of sandbox role-playing. But I agree with Joshua in the under-emphasis of classic role-playing mechanics in all the Ultima games after V, one of the reasons that U5 still remains the highest game on my list.

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    10. U5 is pretty unique amongst all RPG's with it's Robin Hood angle and should for that reason alone be experienced by all players of the genre. It deserves to be the top rated Ultima.

      It also evokes strong Arthurian themes (you have to bring the rightful king back from the Underworld, to restore the land), whereas in Ultima 6 Ren Faire LARP club of Richard Garriott vibe already takes over and the world becomes less mythical.

      And Ultima 5 is the most well-balanced between bottlenecking and player freedom. The ultimate bottleneck is getting to the Dungeon Doom, everything else is just means to get there. You can't really screw up the sequence.

      In Ultima 6 some of the bottlenecking is really silly: what is the point of Mariah's silver tablet quest, if it just points you to talk with Sin'Vraal... who lives just south of the Shrine of Sacrifice... especially if you've played Ultima 5, you would go see him ASAP and talk to him about the gargoyles and prophecies.

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    11. I think U5 is a great game because it manages to combine the distinctiveness of the Ultima series with pretty solid mechanics. Ultima always tried to be something more interesting than "grab all the loot and beat the big bad", and U4 obviously was a major step forward in that regard. But once you've experienced it the first time, U4 is just a series of repetitive fetch quests in a world populated by characters who do nothing but repeat fun facts about virtue. U5 turns Britannia into an actual world, with characters who have some semblance of personalities, where an actual plot happens. Also the combat is better.

      I'm very fond of U6, but it starts off the unfortunate tradition of Ultima games where the plotline only works because you're arbitrarily prevented from telling Lord British anything you find out. There's absolutely no reason you shouldn't be able to go straight to him after talking to Lord Draxinusom and arrange a ceasefire. (See also: "hey, LB, the Fellowship is doing all of these murders and is a plot by an extradimensional tyrant to conquer Britannia", "hey, literally a mile down the road from here people are starving to death", "hey, the mines over in Vesper are full of drugged-up gargoyle slaves, maybe you could take a break from sharing your royal scepter with the help and eating pies and take care of it", ...)

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    12. U5 is my favorite Ultima for all the reasons described, but it is completely possible to screw up the ending. I made it all the way to British's little room at the bottom of the dungeon and couldn't figure out what to do next. Over a decade later, after I no longer had the disks...

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    13. I would count it as the bad ending (when you don't take the Sandalwood box with you, which has Lord British' personal moonstone). It's like if Frodo was at Mount Doom and Sam is yelling "throw it into the fire!" and Frodo is frantically going through his pocket and then says, "dammit, I think I left the ring back at the Shire."

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    14. I was just stupid. I had the box via the harpsichord for ages, retrieved the three thingies, killed the Shadowlords (epic)... but I couldn't figure out how to interact with the mirror, or that I had to. Everything up to that moment was fantastic... and then it ended in a creepy empty bedroom.

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    15. So.. the only thing you needed to do was to walk through the mirror? That and giving LB the sandalwood box is the only thing you do before the ending cutscene.

      I don't think you can say in this case that it's possible to screw up the ending, if you don't actually trigger the ending cutscene. :D

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    16. Yep. I remember my 14 or 15 yr-old self thinking maybe it was because I'd run from so many fights (I was deep into the game before I realized there were some temp consequences) and I'd been found unworthy. No endgame for you!

      I have no explanation for why I couldn't manage it. The guides I've read suggest you can enter the mirror without the box, so it wasn't that I lost it somewhere on the way.

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    17. I just started U5 after finishing U4 but I have a hard time getting into it. Can't quite put my finger on it why. Maybe missing some direction, in U4 you went to the castle but in U5 that seems like a bad idea. The mechanics alone aren't interesting enough to keep me playing.

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    18. So you are not getting into the "you are a fugitive, an outlaw, wanted by the oppressive regime" vibe of the game? Did you read the introduction screens? They had some guidance... if I remember correctly, the player is nudged towards Yew at the beginning.

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    19. "We're two fugitives"
      "Lets summon the Avatar to help us!"
      "Now we're three fugitives"

      No, not yet, but I just visited Paws and Trinsic and didn't find them too different, except trying not to move adjacent to guards. I did not enjoy having to run after NPCs (something apparently called "daily schedules"). Maybe I just need a longer break. I did enjoy U4 for the most part, and U9 for about one dungeon.

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    20. Well for starters, there's this big sign at the entrance of Trinsic stating "If thou dost lose thine own honor, thou shalt take thine own life"... that was enough to make me go "Wait, what?!"

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    21. Ultima 5 has a glaring flaw of repetitive combat screens. Nothing worse than wandering around with your lvl 8 party and having to face multiple random encounters of rats and snakes and spiders and the like.

      Add to that a vast, empty, repetitive underworld area and I really don't see how it doesn't become a more frustrating exercise than Serpent Isle

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    22. When you word it that way, U5 ought to have bothered me. But it didn't. So there must be some other aspect that the analysis is missing.

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    23. Ah yes for sure, I'm not trying to take away from the great things U5 has, more on the "balance" between good and bad - in a way I feel it has some similarities to U7p2.

      I compare U5 and U6 the same way I compare U7p1 and U7p2. One is more bland but does everything right, while the other is more exciting but has a few headaches.

      Hope that makes sense.

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  12. Shades of LOTR. You've thrown the ring into the volcano, and defeated Saruman. Now you've got to say goodbye to everybody.

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    1. Actually the correct analogy would be: Chet has not yet actually thrown the ring into the fire. He's only acquired the ring.

      Purg guvaxf ur unf svavfurq gur znva zbgvingvba sbe gur Ningne: xvyyrq Ongyva naq erfgberq gur Onynapr. Rkprcg ur unfa'g npghnyyl erfgberq gur Onynapr. Punbf Frecrag vf fgvyy qrnq! Vg'f gur rffrapr bs Punbf Frecrag juvpu gur Punbf Onarf ner znqr bs. Bayl abj unf Purg npdhverq gurve fbhyf. Nyfb gur Terng Rnegu Frecrag vf fgvyy zvffvat (gung'f gur Frecrag gung vf gnyxvat jvgu gur cynlre guebhtubhg gur tnzr) naq gur cynlre arrqf gb erivir obgu Punbf Frecrag naq uryc gur Terng Rnegu Frecrag onpx gb uvf bevtvany cbfvgvba. Jura Rkbqhf fgbyr gur Terng Rnegu Frecrag, Beqre Frecrag xvyyrq gur Punbf Frecrag. Gung'f gur jubyr ernfba sbe gur raq bs Bcuvqvna pvivyvmngvba. Gur pbybavfgf neevirq ba na nyernql qlvat jbeyq, vg whfg gbbx praghevrf sbe gur Vzonynapr gb svanyyl ghea qrfgehpgvir.

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    2. (Sorry for the anon mistake).
      At the beginning of the game, the Avatar was sent to SI to thwart the Guardian's plans, stop Batlin and find Gwenno.
      All of this is accomplished, and SI is mostly a graveyard now so who cares about the imbalance there. (It's a bit of a stretch that the part of it that affects Britain cannot be dealt with in Britain).

      I think Xenka's talk about the Monks' obscufating her prophecies applies a lot to the storytelling and pacing of this game.

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    3. Serpent Isle has an answer to the "why not leave?" question in Zhulkas' Test of Purity. You're the Avatar, you don't just leave people to their fate to save your own skin. In any case, why would it be any easier to stop the Imbalance in Britannia than in Serpent Isle, where it started?

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    4. What was all the frigging planting of the Silver Seed about if I wasn't restoring Balance?

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    5. We don't follow the Avatar through their entire life. We just get these windows into some of the more significant parts. So, while the Avatar might not leave until every last citizen of the Isle is fully self-actualized, we don't have to stay with them the whole time...

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    6. From Ultima Codex: "Some might wonder what purpose the planting of the Seed serves for the story since nothing happens in future afterwards. Most do the planting well before the Banes are released, since sooner the powerful items of past have been acquired, game becomes easier afterwards. But if the Seed is planted after the Banes have been released, Karnax mentions that the Tree of Balance will bring all the people killed by the Banes back to life again after Balance is restored. This solution provides a nice restoration for the cut/alteration made to the original plot of the Serpent Isle."

      The main story of SI is still about helping the Great Earth Serpent back home.

      "Go home ES, go home!"

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    7. So Karnax is basically saying that yes, the deus-ex-machina monks can just resurrect the whole island whenever they feel like it, they just won't do it until *after* the player has completed the game. Ng juvpu cbvag gur ningne vf sbepvoyl rwrpgrq sebz frecrag vfyr, gbb.

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    8. Yeah, well it's basically an artificially integrated DLC made by a different team (at least that's what Bill Armintrout said in his interview).

      But besides that, Silver Seed is superfun, it's one last hurrah to the U7 engine and delivers some of the best dungeon content of the Ultima 7's.

      Though I wonder if it would have been possible to patch the main game via Silver Seed and fix some plot flag trigger issues (at least fix Cantra bug, I think the companions were also supposed to also reference their possession... AFAIK the dialogue actually exists in the usecode).

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    9. Yes, a fanmade patch exists: https://wiki.ultimacodex.com/wiki/Serpent_Isle_Fixes

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    10. I've actually mentioned this patch in the previous (or the one before that) entry, when I warned Chet that Cantra wont react to healing.

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    11. If you do Silver Seed before the Wall of Lights, Karnax instead says "[w]ith the Tree of Balance firmly rooted in this hallowed glade, thy task of restoring Balance to the world will be much easier" and doesn't mention anything about restoring the dead. There is a very specific reason the Imbalance happened and the Avatar has to fix it before things can get better.

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  13. >>Dupre urges me to quit this game.

    That's a nice one.
    V'z fher ur'f tbvat gb erterg vg vs lbh qba'g. (Cerggl fher Purg qvq vg ba checbfr fvapr V guvax abbar pna sbetrg uvf sngr; rira nsgre 30 lrnef)

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  14. The screenshots continue to amaze, excellent art direction all around.

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    1. Huh. I was just thinking how unrelentingly ugly all the screen shots are.

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    2. Expressing support for BESTIunlmt's opinion. The screenshot with the three prisms has a very fascinating vibe.

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  15. "On arrival, the party immediately starts complaining about the cold. They can go screw themselves. My days of micromanaging a separate inventory of warm gear are long gone."

    Between this and the constant "I'm hungry!", the game is kind of a parenting simulator.

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  16. "Turns out, they don't take damage unless I'm holding the Black Sword."

    AVATAR: Death Vortex!

    IOLO, THE BANE OF INSANITY: Avatar, thou fool! Knowest that the Banes of Chaos shalt only be harmed if thou wieldest the Black Sword in thy hands!

    AVATAR: ....Right. Let's try that again. (sheathes steel sword, draws Black Sword) Death Vortex!

    IOLO, THE BANE OF INSANITY: (high-pitched shriek of terror) (head melts just like at the end of "Raiders of the Lost Ark," complete with choking gurgling sounds)

    AVATAR: Okay, Shamino! Dupre! Bane of Anarchy, or Wantonness, or whatever the hell you're calling yourselves today, who's next?

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  17. It's pretty entertaining see how over this game Chet is, haha.

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    Replies
    1. Yup! It's a lot of fun spectating on this. I'm certainly no longer following what the hell is happening in the actual game any longer :-)

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  18. Chester, do you know the book series of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever by Stephen R. Donaldson?
    In the book series, the hero also comes from our world to another land, and his friends become possessed by "Banes" and commit atrocities. A world serpent also appears in the book.

    I see some similarities. It's quite possible that inspiration was drawn from this.

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    1. That's interesting. I know OF the series, and I started to read the first book but didn't like it. I didn't realize there were so many similarities. It certainly does seem like there might be some thematic borrowing.

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    2. Wasn’t there at least one game covered by the blog (loosely?) based on that series?

      The first book I read as a teen and it might be the only fantasy work that I genuinely disliked, not just in a “meh, boring” way, but more like “this is really unpleasant to read”.

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    3. The Land, a roguelike that got covered a lot time ago. Seemed like a pretty good game from what I remember.

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    4. I couldn't get into it either. It's not just that the story wasn't that interesting to me, but Thomas was truly a horrible character.

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    5. My God. The Land. You'd think it was the first thing that would have come to mind:

      https://crpgaddict.blogspot.com/2013/06/game-101-land-1985-2009.html

      I can't even remember stuff that I've already written about.

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    6. Likewise, in the time where I basically read any book that had a "fantasy" label and WAY before I consciously started paying attention to their qualities, I also stopped reading Thomas Covenant early on because I found him such a stand-out repulsive character.

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    8. I love fantasy - I reread most of Eddings and Tolkien about once year. Had a couple of friends who tried to talk me into reading this series for years. I tried to read the first one - until we got to that pivotal scene early on - and closed the book and never looked back. This conversation made me wonder maybe I should give it a try. Went to Wikipedia to read the synopsis of ALL of them (laugh). Nah! It makes me think of Katherine Kurtz's Deryni series (which I did enjoy) but all the gloom, doom, and unrelenting plot moving. (Can we at least resolve something occasionally and make it stick?) I may be missing out on a literature masterpiece, but I find I can be at peace with that. Do think he's got some of the best titles ever given to a book though!

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  19. I recommend the unbeliever books. They were for me also genuinely hard to read because the main character is terrible person, but the real gist is that such persons do exist. However, there is a kind of perseverance in the books and the characters that redeem them. Also, not many books can depict desperation the way these books do.

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    1. I think most readers totally miss the point, and can't see past the "terrible person". He was a leper, with nothing to live for, and having to be mindful every moment not to hurt himself. Then he's having what he thinks is a very vivid lucid dream, in a fantasy land where his body (all parts of it) is fully functional. It's just a dream, so he can do any thing he bloody well pleases. After all, it's just a dream, isn't it? It's not anyone gets hurt for real.
      Well, for the rest of the books he will have to live with the consequences. A far more interesting protagonist than your average generic good-doer.

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    2. Strongly disagreeing with a point is not the same as missing the point. Even TVtropes points out that many readers abandon this book mid-way, and that many fans understand why they do so.

      See also, https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FreudianExcuseIsNoExcuse

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    3. Anonymous and Po have a point. However, who wants to spend serious quality time with a terrible person? Hey, I watched "Breaking Bad" and it was phenomenal. You kept hoping that there could be a change for a character (and there was for one, but not for both). Once we established that the character would flat out rape a woman who was trying to help him (no matter what his thinking that this was a 'dream' or not) - I just did not want to spend any more time with the guy. I get the whole recovery and change thing, but there are just some boundaries you don't cross, unless you really wanted to cross them all along but just had not had the opportunity.

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    4. Having not seen either thing, it strikes me as immensely hypocritical to praise Breaking Bad while criticizing Donaldson's work. Heisenberg or whatever his name is basically loses all sympathy early on since he basically becomes some evil drug dealing screw the system villain. And because it's a TV series, you basically already know he isn't ever going to turn himself around, because that would end the show. And you kept rooting for him, but a guy who raped a woman then realized he made a horrible mistake and consistently tried to atone for that is irredeemable?

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    5. Well, my wife talked me into watching the show. I'd have given it up after an episode or two, but she wanted to finish it. She has not talked me into retrying Donaldson's books. Glad he comes around and tries to atone. Not knocking it for those who love the series, just not into it myself.

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    6. @Morpheus: I'd say a key difference is that Walter is obviously a villain, whereas Thomas is purportedly the grand heroic savior. If a villain acts evil, that's expected; if a hero acts evil, that's disturbing.

      Aside from that, some people find a rapist to be substantially more evil than a "screw the system villain". TVtropes calls this distinction a "Moral Event Horizon".

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    7. Walter only _becomes_ a villain (but was he always a closet villain?), and Thomas never asked to be a hero.

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    8. It's not obvious for a lot of people, though. Discourse around the show I've seen and heard does not describe him as an obvious villain, mostly as an anti-hero. People are not very cognate of the consequences of their own actions let alone the consequences of a fictional character's actions. Something that has a very obvious and straightforward connection is much easier to understand. Hence why nobody really argues that Convent's early portrayal is that of someone who obviously isn't a grand heroic savior and only becomes so as the series goes on.
      Which, I should point out, it's that change that makes people like Convent, actually cleaning up his act and atoning for past mistakes. Rather than just wallowing in evil and people still root for him because maybe this time, he'll clean up his act.

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    9. I'll just say that none of this is why I didn't like the book. I just thought the writing was bad.

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    10. On the other hand, I didn't like Breaking Bad for the reasons that people are saying here, so perhaps I would have abandoned the TC books for the same reasons if I'd gotten that far.

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    11. I wasn’t very invested in Breaking Bad (largely due to Walter) and found the explosion scene in Ep 6 so silly that I tapped out.

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    12. Prodded on by this thread, I'm currently attempting the first book for I think the third or fourth time, and it was the writing for me too. I hadn't even gotten to the rape before this try - it was all the monologuing and infodumps. Do they ever stop? (Or at least become more relevant?)

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    13. From what I remember, the first book really isn't that well-written, but Donaldson got better at it later on. Parts 2 and 3 are pretty good in pretty much every way from what I remember, and the second trilogy (parts 4 to 6) doesn't suck either. However, there's absolutely no reason anyone should ever read the last four books; they are unbelieveably looooooong and boring and soured me on the entire series.

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