Monday, April 19, 2010

Ultima IV and Virtue


In his autobiography, Benjamin Franklin recalls that once he established himself as a successful printer in Philadelphia, he "conceiv'd the bold and arduous project of arriving at moral perfection." Through his readings, he had identified a list of 13 virtues that together would equal this perfection: temperance, silence, order, resolution, frugality, industry, sincerity, justice, moderation, cleanliness, tranquility, chastity, and humility. Realizing that trying to practice all 13 at once would be impossible, he set up a system by which he focused on one per day, carefully recording his progress in a ruled "score sheet" he set up in his notebook.

"I determined to give a week's strict attention to each of the virtues successively. Thus, in the first week, my great guard was to avoid every the least offence against Temperance, leaving the other virtues to their ordinary chance, only marking every evening the faults of the day."


When I was 13 or 14, I did the same thing Franklin did, only not having been exposed to his autobiography at that point, my list of virtues was different: honesty, compassion, valor, justice, honor, sacrifice, spirituality, and humility. I wrote each with its definition on an index card and every morning I shuffled the cards and chose one at random. That one, I did my best to practice for the day. If honesty came up, I was careful to tell no lies throughout the day. If it was sacrifice, I looked for ways to do something charitable. Valor was always a tough one. I scoured Bartlett's Familiar Quotations in the school library and made little signs to hang around my room. I still remember some of them:

  • "Honor and shame from no condition rise; act well your part, there all the honor lies." -- Alexander Pope
  • "God hath sworn to lift on high he who sinks himself by true humility." -- John Keble
 
Not many, I suspect, would admit to deriving what amounts to their religion from a computer game. But I had rejected conventional religion even as a pre-teen. I balked at Judeo-Christian doctrines that seemed both haphazard and arbitrary: meticulous rules about food and dress, but none about the need to actively seek out and destroy evil (my interpretation of "valor"); commandments against adultery and sabbath-breaking, but none against assault and slavery. Ultima IV, on the other hand, offered a comprehensive and completely nondenominational--secular, even--system of virtue. It fit me like a glove. Perhaps if I had read philosophy, the history of the samurai, or Ayn Rand, I would have encountered an equally suitable virtue system that would be more "respectable" as a source. But I didn't. Instead, I played Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar.

Ultima IV's system seems to owe something to Hindu mythology, particularly in the concept of the "Avatar," which I think has been misunderstood by Ultima players and critics alike. In Hindu belief, an avatar is an earthy manifestation of a god--a form the god takes to walk on the mortal plane. In the Ultima series, however, your character is repeatedly described as the "Avatar of Virtue." "Avatar" in this sense is not being misused as a synonym for "exemplar" or "missionary"; rather, the game is suggesting that virtue itself is made manifest in your character; that abstract concepts like honor and valor can, in fact, be given physical form. By using the term, the creator is equating virtue with godhood, suggesting that our gods can be--perhaps should be--principles as well as beings. Why, indeed, should we worship a god who personifies truth, love, and courage when we can instead worship truth, love, and courage themselves?

At the same time, the use of "avatar" has a subtle second meaning. The character that moves around the screen is literally your, the player's, avatar in the game world. From the opening cut scenes of several of the Ultima games, showing you sitting at your computer, a soda can at its side, the games invite you to engage in a sort-of metacognition about the CRPG dynamic in which your fictional alter-ego acts in a way that is more virtuous, more courageous, more adventurous than in the real world.

In most games, this process is one-way--usually, at least, and thankfully so. Gamers who spend hours killing fictional enemies and then go out and kill real enemies are justly labeled as murderers, with negative consequences for their victims, themselves, and the gaming community. In less dramatic examples, no one learns how to sword fight from Oblivion or cast real magical spells from Wizardry. But here, in Ultima IV, we have a game that invites us to apply its lessons to the real world--to improve ourselves in the same way that we improve our in-game character. And if we decline to do this--decline to take this system of virtues seriously--just because its source is a "video game"...well, what better example do we have of a failure to live up to the most difficult-to-master of the eight virtues: humility.

Creating your Ultima IV character.

There has never been, and I suspect never will be again, a CRPG--or, indeed, any game--like Ultima IV. Today's gamers wouldn't have the patience for it. I'm surprised they ever did. Perhaps it was only because CRPGs were so young, computers less ubiquitous, and computer gamers more cerebral (in the 1980s, mostly nerds had computers), that Ultima IV ever found an audience in the first place. Imagine, today, a game without a "big boss," but rather a more complicated quest to become a moral exemplar; a game in which progress is made less through combat than through meditating at shrines; a game whose character creation process invites you to explore your own morality; a game in which, to win, you must give gold to the poor, sacrifice hit points at a blood bank, always tell the truth, and let fleeing monsters escape; a game in which NPC dialog occurs not by choosing among options but by actually typing the words you want to speak.

If you came here for gameplay details, I apologize for the long and abstract polemic. I'll actually start playing (re-playing, in this case, for the first time in 10 years) in the next posting. But this discussion explains, I think, what ultimately led me to create this blog. Ultima IV wasn't my first CRPG, but it was among the first few, and for years it has stood in my mind as the foremost example of what a CRPG can achieve. If this intrigues you at all, ignore that it's old, ignore that it has lousy graphics and sound, ignore everything but the plot, and just play the game.

109 comments:

  1. I've been waiting for this one since Rogue. Please give us many, many postings! Someday I'm going to play this one again, and this time I'll finish it.

    Inspired by your blog, I've taken up Might and Magic 4 and 5 (World of Xeen). Back in the day I finished Clouds but never the Darkside; I hope to complete the whole thing for good this time.

    The story is thin of course, but the game is a lot of fun. Remembering back, I think it was the most advanced inventory system in any RPG. Good stuff!

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    1. Did you complete it?
      I had an amazing experience when I finally decided to finish the world of xeen (I scanned every scenario, got all djinns and I even was able to slay the mega dragon)

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  2. Excellent post! I loved all the games in the Ultima series, but IV was definitely special and unique.

    Last year I read the book "Dungeons & Dreamers" which is about the history of role playing computer games, and focuses especially on Richard Garriott and the Ultima series. Anyway, it talks about how he received a lot of complaining letters from parents after Ultima III and decided to make IV more of a moral quest. It is probably a book that you would really enjoy. You can read the first chapter on the book's website.

    Thanks for your very cool blog!

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  3. Couldn't agree more. The first Ultima I got into was 2 (well, 1, really, but I was having more fun pressing ^C and typing LIST to read the source than actually playing it). Both 2 and 3 absolutely rocked my world, but I was simply not prepared for what "Quest of the Avatar" had to offer.

    Looking forward to your reviews.

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  4. Andrew, I think you'll like Might & Magic IV/V a lot. It's one of the last games that feature movement by discrete squares instead of continuous movement (don't know if there's a term for this). I'll get to it in...oh...about three years.

    cbeust, if I had been playing the Ultima games when they were first released, I probably would have quit after Ultima II and assumed the series had no more to offer. I'm glad I got into Ultima IV first.

    Rusty, THANK YOU for that book recommendation. I can't believe I've never heard of this. I have just ordered it, and I expect it will help fill out a lot of my postings. I also found another one, while I was searching, called "Dungeons & Desktops," so I ordered that, too.

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    1. Seven years later and you're almost ready to play 3. This project certainly took on a life of its own.

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    2. It's now been a little over 10 years we're just about to see the end of M&M V.

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  5. Ultima IV was the very first CRPG I ever played and still possibly my favorite. I was probably about 11. I remember that even at the time I wasn't impressed with the graphics but I soon got sucked into the gameplay as I started to learn about the virtues and different elements such as the Dungeon quests. I'm currently replaying it as I've never actually completed it.

    My children tease me about Ultima as it's hard for them to understand how I can enjoy playing a game with such simple graphics compared to the XBox and PC titles they've grown up with.

    It's interesting what you said about Ultima IV, its virtue system and application in the real world. I've thought similar things over the years where I find myself considering real world issues from an Ultima perspective!

    Regarding books I've been thinking about ordering "Dungeons & Desktops" myself. Matt Barton who is the author has an excellent weekly review series of classic games on YouTube. He's covered many CRPGS (including Wizardry and Ultima 7) and often has some interesting interviews. Just search for "Matt Chat".

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  6. First Ultima game (first computer game) I ever played was Ultima V. I only tried out Ultima IV after it was released as freeware. Since I had already played through Ultimas V-Pagan, as well as Martian Dreams, Savage Empire, and the Underworld series, I found that I couldn't appreciate the simple graphics of U IV. I'll be interested to see it played from your perspective.

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  7. I know that this is an older post, but after reading it, I wanted to highly recommend "The Complete Book Of Ultima" by Shay Addams... The first half-plus is focused on the background of various elements of the Ultima games and Richard Garriott's experiences writing them. A quote of his describing his intent with Ultima IV resonates well with your post, I think:
    "The idea I'm trying to put forth is more philosophical than religious -- that in a society where people have to interact with each other, there are certain kinds of rules whose rationale you should be able to understand. It's the difference between morals and ethics: ethics exist for logical reasons, while morals exist because somebody says so."

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  8. Thanks, xyzzy! I hadn't heard of the Addams book before. I'll try to read it before I play "Ultima V."

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  9. there are two editions of shay's book, you want the second edition over the first! Its a very good book, also prima's ultima collection is very good and I have Master Ultima which has some good background info in it. these three books are more than just walkthroughs, they have loots of good info in them from design to technical.

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  10. Indeed, Truth, Love, and Courage are better principles than Faith, Hope, and Charity. Glenn Beck will never be an Avatar.

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  11. What's the difference between the first and second editions of the Addams book? I think I've got the first, and I'm curious.

    On the virtue front, I think I played Ultima IV in 1986 and I had a lot of trouble with the virtue of Sacrifice. I spent almost the entirety of the game as a "self-serving slug" and only managed to work my way up by systematically donating blood. A year later I did read Ayn Rand, who is well-known for her criticisms of self-sacrifice, and liked her a lot. The game accurately modeled a significant element of my own moral character based on my choices during play! That's got to be a unique form of role-playing.

    One other fond memory of Ultima IV -- I remember going to an Ultima panel at a science fiction convention. I literally finished Ultima IV the day before. When the panel started, the main speaker started out by noting that he hadn't yet completed Ultima IV and asked if anyone else in the room had. I was the only one. Go me!

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  12. Out of a roomful of people at an Ultima panel, you were the only one to have completed the most famous Ultima game? Man, that's pretty lame. Please tell me there weren't a lot of people there.

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  13. @Kyle, they added walkthroughs for Savage Empire, Martian Dreams, Stygian Abyss, Black Gate, and several Nintendo Ultimas. Also added around 60+ pages.

    http://www.notableultima.com/collectibles/Books_OBOU.html

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  14. My first Ultima game was Ultima III, which I mainly bought because I thought the box art was totally badass. I was amused to learn just a couple of years ago that parental complaints against the "demonic" art, along with some immoral behavior possible in the game, were a big motivator behind IV's emphasis on virtue.

    Currently playing Ultima IV and I think I'm making good progress toward finishing it for the first time...

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  15. Good luck! Write again if you win.

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  16. Have often thought about why games are abandoning any kind of complexity that would produce such enjoyment with a little persistance and investment by the player. Never considered the point that, as you say, geeks got hold of computers first. Now every mental sloth is online, and the smarts market is a small and obviously unprofitable one. Still doesn't fit with marketing though... the pie has gotten bigger. Targeting the dork market should still be achievable, but I guess not with advertising costs, the latest game engine and expensive graphic designers.

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  17. Baron: Ultima IV was a risk when it came out too. A game based on ethics, philosophy, and personal behavior seems counter-intuitive to a genre traditionally defined by leveling up, amassing gold, and killing bosses. But Ultima IV was willing to take that risk and it came out on top as a result.

    The reason we don't see those games today isn't because they won't succeed, it's because gaming companies today are loathe to take any kind of risks at all. Ultima IV's game engine was programmed chiefly by Richard Garriott himself, with the support of a small team of creative geniuses. A modern CRPG is made by a massive multi-department development team that could rival the crew size of a Hollywood blockbuster. There are literally millions of dollars and executives' jobs on the line with each and every release.

    That's the cost of a modern, awesome-looking, effects-filled game: they're just not going to take many risks.

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    1. Obviously everyone reading this, you potentially included, may know that 2012 was the year when the smaller teams of creative geniuses rose again via Kickstarter, but it is certainly worth pointing out that in the next year or so we are going to have at least a half-dozen oldschool-styled CRPGs coming out that have a decent chance of rekindling the kind of magic they once had.

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    2. Another two years have passed. We have seen new old style games like "Beyond Divinity" and "Pillars of Eternity"....and there is nothing fresh or revolutionary about those games. Basically it´s 90´s stuff with improved graphics and user interface. Unfortunately, there will be no second Richard Garriott. Even Indies tend to play it safe nowadays.

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    3. Have you actually played Original Sin?

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  18. Too bad those millions of dollare are wasted on reinventing yet another graphics engine, cut scenes and voice acting...

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  19. You can still find some good, risky games within the indie scene, due to the lower development costs. Part of the problem could also be creative inbreeding. Back when CRPGs first appeared and you wanted to make a game you wanted it to be like D&D or a book. Now it is just (or more) likely that you want it to be like FFVII or Dragon Age or Ultima VI. Therefore the same ideas get propagated along, the same plotlines go from archetypes to cliches and the same game mechanics stay around.

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  20. I remember hearing about this game through "Applesoft", a sort of shareware diskette one could buy at the store. I was so jealous, since it apparently wasn't available for the Apple IIc. The preview had some screenshots, along with an interview with Richard Garriott, describing some of his ideas on the game's development.

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  21. I recently discovered this site and stumbling across posts like this just solidify it as the greatest blog ever.

    I played a lot of these games, but you've inspired me to go back and play some of the ones I missed (like Might & Magic).

    To quote from Lionel Hutz:
    "I don't use the world 'hero' very often, but *you* are the greatest hero in American history."

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  22. That's quite a superlative, Chris. I'm glad you like it!

    Thanks for mentioning me on your blog, too. Actually, I followed one of your commenter's links tot he Ultima Forever site and was shocked to see Bioware's logo at the bottom. What involvement do they have with Ultima?

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  23. Origin was purchased by EA way back when. Bioware was purchased by EA much more recently.

    With the launch of that website, I have to imagine they're cooking up something interesting.

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  24. I was taught that Ben Franklin invented "electricity" only to find out recently that he only invented a lightening rod and that electrical experiments had been going on for several centuries prior.

    Can you go to "hell" in this one (like Diablo) if you choose wrong?

    "I am Pardue, and I am a holy man." -- Robbie Wheeling

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  25. Well, clearly he didn't invent electricity more than anyone "invented" water. But I think he was the first to determine that lightning IS electricity, and he did a lot more to develop theories of electricity.

    Yes, you can go to hell (of a sort) in Ultima IV. You have to, in fact.

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  26. I was originally interested in Ultima 4 because I am a Catholic, and it seemed fascinating to me to find a game that seriously discusses virtue; not just as a side plot, but the whole point of the adventure.I'm just starting- it's fun but very deep, kind of intimidating.
    Also, you may be interested to know that the Church does not consider God to personify the Virtues- rather, they exist as part of His being as a neccisity.
    Theological lesson over.

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  27. I'll own up. Nearly the whole of my system of spirituality is based on the Eight Virtues of the Ultima games. I've spent the last fifteen years of my life working out the details. Someday maybe I'll write a blog about that. I found your blog while searching for someone - anyone - who might understand how lonely that is. Even my husband thinks it's kind of weird. Anyway, I just wanted to thank you for writing that. You made someone feel a tiny bit less lonely.

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  28. I'll own up. Nearly the whole of my system of spirituality is based on the Eight Virtues of the Ultima games. I've spent the last fifteen years of my life working out the details. Someday maybe I'll write a blog about that. I found your blog while searching for someone - anyone - who might understand how lonely that is. Even my husband thinks it's kind of weird. Anyway, I just wanted to thank you for writing that. You made someone feel a tiny bit less lonely.

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  29. I'll own up. Nearly the whole of my system of spirituality is based on the Eight Virtues of the Ultima games. I've spent the last fifteen years of my life working out the details. Someday maybe I'll write a blog about that. I found your blog while searching for someone - anyone - who might understand how lonely that is. Even my husband thinks it's kind of weird. Anyway, I just wanted to thank you for writing that. You made someone feel a tiny bit less lonely.

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  30. Canageek, you are SO on the money.

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  31. Nice to hear it Niceman! I thought of it after reading a similar idea when Bioshock first came out.

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  32. U4 is what revolutionized the CRPG scene back then. Less killing and more talking. Also, I remember that, to have some decent stats, you should never... ever... choose Humility.

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    1. Not just for the stats, either! Not only was Shepherd (the Humility class) the shittiest class, but the town that exemplifies Humility (i.e. the Shepherd's starting point) is the ruins of Magincia, which was destroyed by the gods for being too proud. So (a) it's mostly inhabited by hostile undead which you are utterly unequipped to deal with as a level 1 Shepherd, and (2) it's on an island in the middle of the fucking ocean, so your only other option is to wait out the moon phases for the Humility moon gate to appear and take you ANYWHERE ELSE I DON'T EVEN CARE.

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    2. I still maintain that there's an advantage to choosing the shepherd. You have to get all 8 party members eventually, and if you start somewhere else, you're likely to get Katrina last or close to last. At that point, she's never going to be anything but a burden on the party. She can't use any magic items or ranged items (or can she use a sling? I forget). By making the Avatar the shepherd, you start building levels from the beginning. Later, when you're exploring dungeons, including the Abyss, the shepherd will be at the front of the party, waving a mystic sword, while the rest of the party shoots magic missile weapons from behind.

      But yeah, it would make a jarring opening for a first time player.

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  33. Ultima IV was a profound, life-changing experience. Never before or since has any book, movie, or game as much challenged me, personally, to become a better person. It wasn't merely a revolution in game-play: it took an ignored, maligned, and ultimately pretty silly new medium and used its one new feature -- interactivity -- to force a person to sit and ponder its meaning. You could not progress in the game without coming to terms with its virtues. I know because tried. I didn't even know what some of the terms meant when I started the game, but boy did I learn.

    I never really finished the game way back when, though. The quest, for me, was to become the Avatar. Finishing the final dungeon was... anticlimactic. I got bogged down in the slog and then never got back to it. Afterward, I was worried that the game wouldn't stand up to my memories of it. I finally played again 5 years ago and was gratified to discover that while the concepts cannot, of course, still be new to me, they remained true to my recollection, and I found the game to be an intriguing romp through my own past thought processes. I did complete the final dungeon this most recent time, and, indeed, found the ending anticlimactic.

    My brothers and I still speak of morality in terms of the Principles and Virtues. I will say, however, that the game may have ruined me for modern games. I cannot for the life of me play through Grand Theft Auto, KotOR as a Dark Jedi, or any other game requiring an evil path. I just don't enjoy them.

    Thanks much for the very interesting article. I just found your blog today and have been reading around. Much fun and nostalgia, but this article was the best so far.

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    1. I'm glad you're enjoying it, and that you have the same memories that I do about the game.

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    2. If you are truly elite at Ultima IV, you must finish it as a Sheppard. You must choose humility.

      Ultima IV is one of the best CRPGs ever. Now that the consoles abound they will not make a free and open game like it. The keywords will be locked as controller selections. I loved typing in a word to someone random, and getting a response I didn't know I was going to get. Or talking to the criminals, the demon, or the horse. Staring at my tv to see the small dot in the wall for the secret door. Read the book of History. No, REALLY, READ THE BOOK OF HISTORY. The map reminded me of Time Bandits.

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    3. Ug. I am so sick of hearing how consoles are the death of everything. Of course on a console you'd never get a creative game that blends stealth and RPG (Deus Ex: Human Revolution), turns a point and click on its head to tell a story (Walking Dead), reverse standard genre conventions to examine a moral issue (Spec Ops: The Line) or something strange no one has thought of before (Flower, Journey, Portal)

      What kills creativity is high budgets and bad studios/publishers. There is no reason a console can't be as creative as a computer game. Code is code. Controlers have some upsides and some downsides (Aiming sucks, but movement is more fluid then WASD) In the house right now, and in use as gaming machines are 2 PCs, 2 xboxs (Normally 1, but brother brought his home for the holidays), a PS3, and a Wii. Also a gamecube, N64, SNES and a bunch of C64s. All of them have upsides and downsides (Well, the modern ones anyway). PS3 has better exclusives, but the controller sucks balls compared to the xbox one. I can play games on the xbox and PS3 in the family room and be with the family, but then I can't mod them and they talk during cutscenes.

      And stop talking about games needing less attention today. Rubbing every item against every other item doesn't take much brain power. Grinding for 16 hours doesn't make it a better game. Also; The WORST games I'm playing now have a better story then ANYTHING on EITHER Trickster or Chet's blogs. Yes, INfamous (or InFamous or inFamous) has a horrible story, inconstant characterization and it feels like the writers didn't talk to eachother. And you know what? It has a more complex and nuanced story then ANYTHING on either blog so far, and I'm sick of people telling me how short the attention span of my generation is, and how stupid I am for not liking brutally hard games with a zillion hours of grinding. I beat Dragon Quest I (Ok, the Game Boy version, but still). I worked on II and III. You know what? Golden Sun was a better CRPG in every freaking way.

      ...sorry, its been a long week.

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    4. This is one of those 'many variables contributing, but can't single out one factor' issues. If I may ramble for a bit...

      It's not the bedroom coders losing out to the big software houses, or the extra hoops programmers and designers have to jump through to publish on the consoles, or the money-driven market, or the barriers to entry, or the broader audience, it's all of these and none of these.

      I venture that you (pardon the generalisation - I'm using the collective "you") were young adults, teenagers or younger when you first experienced them. They became a part of your identity, became your standard measure for "RPG".

      When someone rubbishes an old game for being old or clunky, it's like they're dismissing you, mocking your fond memories of the hardship you went through to wrest the fun from said game or one like it.

      Rather, when you ask yourself, "Why don't the games I play now seem as good as I remember the ones I played being when I was younger?" and "What happened to story?", ask "What are current games doing better than the old games?". It does you good to argue for the opposite party.

      There is stagnation and hand-holding in current CRPGs, but what percentage of this is due to the lack of 'market' and focus testing and what percentage is due to the main features already having being invented and becoming convention? (Seriously, I don't know. Can we find out?) If you'd had, say, Fallout 3's plot (sometimes considered the weakest) and setting with era-appropriate graphics, the same open world converted to 2D, and about a third of the things you were able to make and do available to you in 198x, your mind would have been thoroughly blown. F3, as with others, built on what came before.

      If you doubt the lack of roleplaying potential or richness of current games, well... I post on reddit's Fallout subreddit and people will occasionally come up with entire stories for their characters as they play them. The Elder Strolls is the chronicle of someone who set out to have the most unexciting life he could manage.

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    5. I'm very glad to hear I'm not the only one who writes additional dialog in my head about games like Skyrim and Fallout 3. (Including details of why I can loot the store right in front of them without them considering it stealing)

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  34. Canageek- You keep hearing it because its true, and everybody realizes it. You will not get a variety of innovation that you get in the good CRPGs. The Ultima story is awesome, and better than 99% of the RPG line for Xbox, PS1/2/3, and camecube & Wii combined, except where ported from a computer game. Clearly, you are not playing some BAD worst games. Go watch AVGN.

    ...apology accepted

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    1. Apology retracted. Now you are just parroting idiotic ideas that a zillion other idiots have posted. Have you actually PLAYED a console game recently? You'll find a void of good story telling, they only have games like Bioshock, Mass Effect 1-3, Deus Ex: Human Revolution, Dishonoured, The Walking Dead, Heavy Rain.

      Personally my favourite CRPG is available on console (though a much worse version): Fallout 3.
      Baldur's gate isn't on console, but it is on fucking iPad, which is an anemic, input poor piece of crap that is closer to something a caveman could use then a real gaming device (Og poke shiny screen with finger!)

      Get your head out of your ass and think before saying things. All console does is change the controller. Hell, the PS3 can even take mouse and keyboard input, so you can port *any* RPG to it given the budget.

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    2. Lets name of some other good CRPGs, just to show what an idiot you are:

      Baten Katos: Pure RPG, based on deck building and poker hands plus an elemental base. Great story, I really didn't expect at least one of the plot twists. I need to finish it. Gamecube. Had a sequel, haven't played that.

      Skies of Arcadia: Note GREAT, but solid JRPG with flying ships and light, fun dialog. Base building and writing give you a sense of effecting the world. Gamecube & Dreamcast.

      Golden Sun and Golden Sun 2: Solid party paged RPGs for Gameboy Advanced. Interesting Dijinn trade-off mechanics (Can use them to summon big attacks, but that weakens your character). Better story then Ultima, if not by much. It actually has this thing known as a 'plot twist' which is something only Gold Box RPGs seem to have discovered by this point in Chet's explorations.

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    3. Oh and lets not overlook fucking MASS EFFECT, the single longest story told in an electronic game so far, with some of the most interesting characters and world, and the only game to ever make me have a hard time with a decision I was making. Oh, and I am just making that on ME1, which was the most CRPG of the three; the 2nd was supposed to be the strongest of the series.

      Lets see, you MIGHT have heard of Skyrim, one of the most satisfying games to come out lately, that I've put 160 hours or so into, as has Chet and a number of the other members of our community. Because that doesn't have customizable characters at ALL, no of course not, it is on fucking consoles, which are for idiots. Right. Bite me.

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    4. Oh, lets see, Ogre Battle 64, a combination RTS-CRPG for N64. Oh, it only had this tiny little advancement called, what was it, oh yeah, multiple freaking endings. You know, based on how good/evil you were on your playthrough. Not just two of them either, like Fable or some garbage. Not, it apparently had a bunch of them based on both how you play the game and your dialog choices.

      Lets see, what console HAVEN'T I found a good RPG for yet? Oh yeah, how about the Wii exclusive, The Last Story? Very JRPG, not much freedom, bland battle mechanics, but interesting universe and very, very engaging characters. I don't like numbers enough to get into the whole upgrade system and tweaking my battle performance, but hey, console exclusive CRPG.

      So lets see, I've listed what would be known as a 'metric ton' of good through excellent RPGs for consoles, all off the top of my fucking head. At least 3 of them are exclusive to consoles (Skies of Arcadia, Golden Sun, The Last Story). So yeah, waiting to hear about the magical property that causes consoles to be unable to run RPGs.

      Hell, porting Ultima to console could be done by a braindead monkey as it is all menus or text entry. Sure, it would be a bit painful with an on screen keyboard, but not hard. And you could add it a list of recently typed things, to save you time when typing spells in or asking everyone in town about the same thing.

      So yeah, come back when you actually learn to, you know, think, instead of parroting shit you read other places on the internet.

      Join me next time when I show how everyone who claims that triple A development kills genre blending games and risky games is an idiot by pointing out that my brother and I's game collection is more then half genre-mixing games, such as that tiny, low budget FPS with RPG elements by the name of Far Cry 3 (Inventory, Levels, abilities, economy.... Chet might have to play it!)

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    5. There are good ideas being debated here and good points on both sides, but I think you're both getting a little hot under the collar.

      I generally agree with BelriX that controls have been dumbed down in recent games. The late 1980s and early 1990s mark the end of the era for flexible dialogue, text-based controls, and even games that used the full keyboard layout for in-game commands. I disagree, however, that this is necessarily because of the growth of consoles. We saw this happening even when PCs were absolutely dominant in the CRPG market; witness, for instance, the transition from typed keywords to selectable keywoards between Hero's Quest and the VGA remake (Quest for Glory). Granted, the need to port games to the console is probably one factor in keeping the controls a bit simpler, but I don't think it was the cause of it.

      Beyond that, though, BelriX, I don't see why modern games--even console games--can't be as immersive and interesting as games of the 1980s. The equivalent of staring at the screen looking for that dot in the wall shows up all the time. My wife and I are playing Fable II right now, and I'm constantly having to study the screen for cracks in the wall or other tell-tale signs of secret areas and treasures. The map for Skyrim is easily equal to the map for Ultima IV, just screen-based rather than on paper. And there's now way that you're going to convince me that the history of Britannia is the end-all, be-all when it comes to world building and lore. Plenty of modern games feature worlds and stories that are equally complex and fascinating. I don't agree with Canageek that the worst games of the current era have better stories than the best games of the 1980s, but in general, I don't see a correlation either way between the quality of the story and the era in which the game was made.

      Finally, BelriX, I utterly don't get your opening sentence, that "if you are truly elite at Ultima IV, you must finish as a shepherd." The whole point of the character-creation exercise is to test YOUR association with virtue, not to engineer it to make an easier or more difficult game. I think starting as a shepherd might actually make an easier game; since shepherds are the hardest to level and they can't use any ranged magic items, it would be best for the party to have the shepherd as one of the earliest characters and right up in front in battle.

      Canageek, you make some good points, and generallly I agree with you--but you have to cool off, man. Try not to resort to name-calling and profanity even when someone makes a point you think is jaw-droppingly ignorant. This isn't RPGCodex.

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    6. Sorry about that, I was way out of line. Feel free to edit the profanity out if you'd like.

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  35. Canageek: none of those are proper RPGs. They're JRPGs, with the exception of Mass Effect, which is a third person shooter combined with dating simulator.

    The only proper RPGs ever released on a console are direct ports of PC games.

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    1. We can argue all day about what makes a "proper RPG," but in my view:

      1) JRPGs are CRPGs. I may not like them as much as western RPGs, but I can't deny what they are.

      2) Almost any absolute statement is going to turn out not to be true, and your closing sentence is a perfect example. There are plenty of valid RPGs released only for consoles or released first for consoles, and if you refuse to consider them "proper RPGs," you're going right to the "no true Scotsman" fallacy without even trying.

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    2. Sorry, what is the "No True Scotsman" fallacy?

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    3. I believe it is basically that you argue "no True Scotsman would do [x]" despite the fact that the concept of a "True Scotsman" itself is not actually defined. Ergo, "those are not real RPGs" is easy to argue when the very concept of an RPG can never be definitively decided upon anyway.

      There is something to be said about the fundamental difference between CRPGs and JRPGs, but honestly JRPGs (speaking generically) in some ways play more like these 1980s CRPGs than modern CRPGs do. Grind for its own sake, one path through the game to victory ... though obviously they have come a long way in graphic fidelity and scripting, haha.

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    4. It should also be pointed out that the two styles have been cross pollinating as of late. I think some of the Final Fantasy games are more WRPG open world style, while games like Mass Effect have picked up the detailed storytelling of the JRPG.

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    5. Personally I consider JRPGs (Japanese Role-Playing Games)to be a subset of CRPGs (Computer Role-Playing Games). My reasoning goes as follows.

      a) JRPGs have been mostly released on video game consoles. I don't think there's anyone that can argue that a console is not a computer, namely a computer specifically designed for entertainment and gaming purposes. Thus any RPG released on a console will technically be a Computer Role-Playing Game.

      b) Even if we discount consoles as "true computers", there are JRPGs that have been released on Japanese personal computers like the MSX family, the NEC PC-88/98, or the Sharp X68000. Thus (at least some) JRPGs would technically be Computer Role-Playing Games.

      c) Even if we discount Japanese personal computers as "true computers", there is still the case of JRPGs that were in fact released on "Western" PCs, including the IBM PC compatible that has dominated the PC market in at least the last two decades. Thus a JRPG (like Final Fantasy VII) would still be a Computer Role-Playing Game.

      Now if anyone is going to make a distinction, it should perhaps be between Western RPGs and JRPGs, regardless of the platform they were released on.. but to be honest I rarely bother make that distinction. There are plenty of examples that blur the line between what a WRPG should be and what a JRPG should be. Hell, there are even games like Septerra Core that were made by Western studios, thus technically making them Western RPGs, yet feel and play much like Japanese RPGs.

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    6. Also, I think you are wrong on that most of them are for consoles. I think most of the one that have been translated are for consoles, but there are a CRAZY number of obscure JRPGs churned out on PC that never make it to the west outside of fan patches. (Doom DOOM Chet, DOOOOOOOOOM)

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    7. Perhaps you're right, perhaps you're not. I honestly have never seen a statistical breakdown of Japanese RPGs by platform release. Besides, whether there have been more of them on Japanese personal computers or on Japanese consoles is irrelevant to what I wanted to say.

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  36. I hope you're proven wrong in your second to last paragraph. There are a few examples to nearly all those points, but no one game I can think that offers them all.

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    1. I still haven't found another one with a main quest quite as original, but overall I agree I was a little carefree with the language there.

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    2. I definitely haven't played as many CRPGs as you have, and all the ones I know of basically follow the same "stop the big bad man."

      From your own list, there was Drakkhen, which was "find all the gems and bring peace." There were mandatory battles, but it wasn't the main quest.

      Upcoming, Fallout has a main quest that doesn't involve fighting a specific bad guy, but allows the option to resolve the conflict through dialog options. You're just going out to get some water originally. The sequel may be similar.

      I don't have any examples where the ending isn't violent though. I'm sure they're out there, but I can't recall any at the moment.

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  37. This post sparked some curiosity about Benjamin Franklin's ethical system. I went on a search for more information, finding some other discussions and even a web site that used his 13 virtues as a sort of challenge for members. Then on a whim I picked up a biography of Franklin, where I also learned that after inventing this system *he only stuck with it for a few weeks*. Yes, after defining thirteen different virtues, he didn't actually make it through one week of focus for each of the virtues. In part when he quit his program he rationalized that while it might be making him a better person, it was at the detriment of his relationships, because it was also apparently making him unbearable to others.

    I found that pretty funny, and also odd that most of the other references to Franklin's system don't realize or acknowledge it was so short-lived and never completed.

    Another note: in his initial plan Franklin thought he could master the whole thing in just 13 weeks, with one week being enough focus to have him set for life. Further in he realized it was a bigger challenge than that (surprise!) and came up with the idea of rotating, so that in 52 weeks of a year he'd spend 4 weeks on each virtue.

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    1. I had forgotten about that. In his autobiography, Franklin discusses the whole thing in a tone that suggests he's making fun of his own youthful naivete, so I didn't imagine that he ever did achieve moral perfection, particularly given some of the things he admits to later.

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    2. *Ben Franklin takes a drink*
      Ankh: "Thou hast lost a Thirteenth!"
      Ben: "#%&#! It was just a sip, you fu-"
      Ankh: "Thou hast lost another Thirteenth!"

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    3. You could pluck Ben Franklin out of his own time, put him in modern America with some modern clothes and I don't think he'd miss a beat. IMO he'd fit in just fine. The average person would probably like hanging out with him - not because he's on the $100 bill but because comes off as a chill kind of guy.

      Offhand, he's the only pre-1950 historical figure who I can say that stuff about. Though Teddy Roosevelt comes off as a character, too.

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  38. After reading that I am ashamed that back in the 80's, I preferred The Bard's Tale and Phantasie to this game although I did play Ultima IV a fair amount.

    I wasn't a very enlightened teenager. I'll have to dig up a copy of this again, and view it through the failing eyes of a 43 year old.

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  39. I was an Avatar of Ultima IV as well as the author, and have incorporated the virtues into my life. They are the bedrock of who I am as a person, for better or worse. I think the hardest aspect of it is the sense that one is always crusading against and within a larger world which seems ambivalent to any virtuous effort to re-mediate cultural or social problems and ignorant of any coherent, logical basis for morality.

    I no longer play video games as an adult. I have become the Avatar and this world is the game system. I don't think I'll be able to "complete" this game, however. Humility is surrendering to the reality that there is no exit. There is no magic axe.

    In some ways I think Ultima was prophetic. The world is threatened with destruction. The world's people follow false ideologies. Demagogues rule the world espousing false virtues.

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    1. Well, you've...taken things a bit further than I did. But it's always nice to hear from a fellow U4 devotee, and I'm glad the consideration of the virtues has improved your life. You make a good point here: I feel that too many people believe religion = morality and don't feel that they need to create their own personal codes if they follow a religious doctrine.

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    2. Uhh... I was hoping to see a link at the end of this comment here that brings me to a site selling black-market Viagra, penis enlargement apparatus or some such.

      So... uh... yeah. Spooky.

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  40. Regarding your second to last paragraph: you may want to try Undertale, a recent indie semi-RPG. I don't want to spoil it too much, but depending on how much violence and meta-gaming you choose to employ, the game's story and tone can change radically.

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    1. Although now that I think about it, one warning: much of the gameplay in Undertale requires you to quickly distinguish between blue and orange. Does your colorblindness affect that pairing?

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    2. If you show me blue and orange independently and ask me what colors they are, I might not get it right (e.g., I might say purple or red, respectively). But if you show me two colors and I have to figure out which is blue and which is orange, I'm sure I can do that correctly.

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    3. You'll often see only one at a time, but in scenarios where blue and orange are the only possibilities; as long as their potential misidentifications don't overlap, you should be fine.

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  41. I don't understand the part where you say today's gamers wouldn't have the patience for this game. I'm a today's gamer, including modern games, but I played through and enjoyed Ultima I through VII

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    1. I was speaking in generalities rather than trying to encompass literally 100% of today's gamers. Do you think the average gamer of the 2010s would be willing to take detailed notes about NPC conversations and locations? To have to write or remember keywords instead of being fed dialogue options?

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    2. How has Wasteland II been doing? It has both prebuilt dialog options and the ability to type in keywords if you notice something that isn't marked.

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    3. I don't know what its sales figures are, but given the places that it's been reviewed and praised, it strikes me that it has a niche audience consisting primarily of older players who are used to that style of gameplay. If that's the case, it proves my point. If not, it refutes it--at least partly. Having to remember a handful of keywords isn't quite the same thing has having to write down nearly every conversation, after all.

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  42. Actually, Ultima 4 is one of the reasons that prompted me to check the Bible by myself, starting around 2010.

    I initially refrained from posting this, then I saw that people were insulting each other about video games on this page. If I am to receive angry replies, this is the right place!

    You wrote:

    >>> no rules about the need to actively seek out and destroy evil (my interpretation of "valor");

    Yes there are, especially in the New Testament! "Lack of knowledge" is a form of evil; you fight it by teaching ("valor" then is the courage to support your knowledge, while HUMILITY COMMANDS ME TO ADMIT WHEN I AM WRONG). "Violence" is another form of evil; you are not supposed to fight it with more violence (crusades, inquisition, terrorism, pre-emptive strikes), but with its opposites: love, persuasion, and being a good example. The "active fighters against evil" are the "Good-aligned" missionaries. This is why I am writing this.

    >>> meticulous rules about food and dress,

    I discovered that 90% of the Bible rules about food (they are all about meat and alcohol) match the suggestions by today dietologists and nutritionists. On the other hand, I never read anything about dress rules in the Bible, except for a very vague "dress code" when you want to "talk to God" (prayer) on Sabbath or Sunday.

    >>> commandments against adultery and sabbath-breaking,

    I think forbidding adultery was the only way to prevent sexual transmissible infections back then. Respect of Sabbath granted rest to servants and animals, too, lest a demanding lord overloaded them with work and fatigue.

    >>> but none against assault and slavery.

    Yes there are! But twisted theologists during the middle ages made up a quibble, pretending that such rules applied to Christian Europeans only, thus allowing to assault and enslave Muslims, Africans, Native Americans, etcetera.

    But I HUMBLY and HONESTLY admit (Ultima 4 rules!) that there might be real weak points in Judeo-Christian doctrines.

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  43. I'm a huge fan of your blog. So much so that I've decided to read every one of your posts in chronological order. Perhaps I can create a blog about reading your blog...

    The scope of this project is amazing. On behalf of gamers everywhere: Thank you.

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    1. I'm glad you enjoy it. What I'd honestly do, instead of going in chronological order of the postings, is use my "Index of Games Played by Year" to go in chronological order of the games themselves. Less whiplash that way.

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    2. From a reader's perspective: I agree, it gives you a better sense of what was happening during that time period.

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  44. Well, I think that, out of all games so far, Undertale is the most similar (as in "vaguely reminiscent of") to the kind of experience you describe in the last paragraph. It might not score high on the Gimlet (the part I played felt more like an adventure with RPG elements, combat requires player skill, large parts of it is parody, graphics are so-so, *no character customization besides name*... I'm not sure it would even qualify as an RPG under your rules!). But killing is not free of consequence (IIRC this is actually the core idea behind the story) and finding a way to negotiate around conflict is a more interesting challenge than winning by dealing enough damage.
    (I shall also note that due to the premise this game has a somewhat cringeworthy fanbase but the music is excellent)

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  45. I never knew there were more people like me... like us, I guess... people who took this stuff SERIOUSLY.

    Some unseen kinda "Order of the Avatar" =).

    People who met this game and for whom this game made a real DIFFERENCE, made them see sense in a world where there seems to be none.

    It is symbolical in some way.
    How this game shines on the background of innate senselessness of many CRPGs (by the words of "Moraff's" games: journey deeper, slay more powerful monsters) - it parallels how life with a sense and a purpose shines on the background of lives led just for... for no thing in particular.

    Speaking about Avatar and Virtues, though, I heard that Hindu religion was not the only inspiration: there was some influx from "Land of Oz" (Truth, Love and Courage - now, weren't there three heroes who sought to improve in those three virtues?).
    Mind you, "The Land of Oz" is, by itself, written by a person versed in esoterical lore, and this book is, by rumors, a metaphor of Soul's Journey (Dorothy = Dorothea, "Given by God", i.e. Soul).

    Still, this is this and that is that: reading or watching Land of Oz does not stand near -being- there in the world of Britannia, seeking mystical enlightment and talking to the likes of Buddha, Shakespeare and Rabindranath Tagore. =) And the last part of the game, where "You have returned but your quest is not over", makes this connection between game-world virtue and real-world seekings even more prominent; it all looks, feels, breathes like it was a deliberate attempts to make kids and teens care, to give a meaning.

    I am glad to know there are more people out there who got affected by this game in such a big way, although, in a hindsight, this must have been self-evident =)

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    1. It's great to hear from a fellow believer! It would be interesting to see a modern game, which could provide so many more options to demonstrate or pervert the virtues, to adopt this approach.

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  46. I'm reading through your blog from the beginning and am very much enjoying it. I started playing Ultima Online a couple months ago after trying U3 and getting frustrated! Here's to spending a few weeks catching up!

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    1. I was just doing some quick math and figuring that my blog must be over 2 million words by now, not even including comments, so it probably takes a long time to read through from the beginning. I should develop some kind of rating system so people know which ones to skip.

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    2. See what we need is a blog that reads through each blog post on YOUR blog, posts a summary and rates it on a multipoint rating system....

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  47. Just want to say that I found this blog yesterday. I find it really interesting, because I have fond memories of a lot of these old games, going back to Wizardry 1, and I like to see someone else's take on it all. Also, RPG's are my favorite genre, and I am willing to try out some games I missed the first time around if they look good enough.

    I played Ultima 4 on the NES, but I've only played it on the computer for a few minutes. (I prefer the NES controls.) Several posts ago you talked about at what point RPGs started feeling like a modern game. About Ultima 4, I'll say that I personally don't feel like Ultima 4 feels like a modern game at all. Modern games are not this good. The closest 21st century game I've played that is like Ultima 4 is Octopath Traveler and even that feels like a watered down version of Ultima 4. This game is a masterpiece and it's a damn shame that most younger RPG fans will never give it a try.

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    1. I mean, I think there's a distinction to be made between story and mechanics. U4 is hardly the pinnacle of combat, character development, inventory, and graphics. I would much rather seen U4's plot with U5's interface. But sure, for the backstory, lore, and quest, it's hard to think of a modern game that tops its originality.

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  48. You might mention this later in your blog, but Morrowind had a similar character creation system (optional, but still) that tasked you with scenarios navigate, i.e. take fallen money or return it. This only determines the character class, but whenever I played through it I was reminded of Ultima's questions at the start of the game.

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    1. I don't think it's come up. I'm not sure I'll ever reach Morrowind organically. But I do remember that option in character creation, and I'm sure they were paying deliberate homage to U4.

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    2. I noticed you referring directly to Morrowind in a post or so from this one, so I jumped the gun a bit. And, yeah, I agree that it must be homage.

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    3. Arena had this already (1995 is not that far away), and so did Daggerfall. Arena might have been inspired by Ultima in that regard - it's a slightly different system, scoring points for each class selection instead of head-to-head, but it's close.

      I think Oblivion dropped this, making a class suggestion based on your behaviour in the staring dungeon instead.

      I know playing a Daggerfall demo was the first time I ever saw such a system, and I thought it was pretty cool.

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  49. As I recall, there is a MMORPG that has no combat, and requires characters to develop in particular disciplines like architecture, harmony, and leadership. If you imagine, today, a game with a complicated quest to become an exemplar (instead of a big boss), well this is an example.

    It's called A Tale In The Desert, it's been running since 2003, and U4 fans may want to read up on it.

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  50. Just found your blog. This is great! It has convinced me to play U4 next. I got my start in 1977 playing dnd then Oubliette at UIUC on PLATO. Some of the other commentary is incomplete and inaccurate (for example, there was an objective to Oubliette, which was only accomplished by one team AFAIK). Anyways, on to U4.

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  51. Ugh, I cannot post as my Google account.

    I am guessing that Ultima IV was your first Ultima game. I have noticed that people tend to go with primacy over recency. Whatever their first Ultima game was is the one that will forever blow their minds. Perhaps this is only if the game was first played when it first came out and was, thus, cutting edge design and theme. I know that was the case for me with Ultima ][. When I played it, I was floored by what I was learning was possible. A character in a story that I could inhabit.

    If you ever go to Nerverwinter Nights (the early 2000’s one) take a break from the official campaigns and try the fan mods. You will find several that should resonate with the idea of no ultimate big boss evil but incredible world and themes. I recommend the Prophet trilogy by Baldecaran, in particular, (or anything by Baldecaran) or the two Tortured Hearts by Zoltan Gonda.

    Someday, you are also going to play “Planescape: Torment” which should also meet your taste buds nicely.

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    1. U4 was my first Ultima game, and while I agree with you that there's a certain nostalgia factor for that reason, I don't think it is overwhelming objective judgement in this case. U4 did so many innovative things and so clearly improved upon the mechanics, dialogue, and worldbuilding of the first trilogy, that it's hard to imagine anyone not thinking it's the best of the first four.

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    2. I emphatically second the suggestion of the Prophet module series. It's up there with the very best in terms of ludonarrative consonance. Like UIV (progression by kills) or Ps:T (death=reload), it takes a gameplay necessity (the limitation of choice, in this case) and both turns it into an element of the plot as well as deconstructs it. The writing is stellar as well. The author went on to be a successful neuroscientist, and in truth the whole subject matter of the series is a fantasy metaphor for the problem of determinism in modern neuroscience.

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  52. Your experience of this game is awesome and is very relatable! U4 definitely helped evolve my viewpoint beyond an immature style of “everything, and everyone, in the game world is there for you to exploit for personal gain.” Suddenly, thug tactics of killing peasants, stealing from merchants, etc. actually inhibited progress in the game rather than advancing it. It actually took me awhile to get used to this when I first entered the U4 world.

    I, too, found “evil path” games more distasteful after this. I can see where some people would enjoy exploring what it is like to play as an evil character/party. I’ve even heard a “catharsis theory,” basically “I get this (violence, rape, pillage, etc.) out of my system in game worlds so that I don’t do things like that in real life.” That doesn’t ring true for me, though. If it worked that way, the people who play such games day in and day out should be the kindest, gentlest souls imaginable because they have so thoroughly “gotten it out of their system.”

    You could tell that U4 was going to be different from the moment you rolled up a character and, instead of the usual “Roll the dice ad nauseam until you finally get an 18 constitution,” you were presented with a series of questions about morally ambiguous situations. I remember thinking “What the…?” in 1986 but I have nothing but respect for this daring breach of standard RPG protocol now.

    I find it interesting that Garriott chose to do away with divine magic (i.e. cleric spells) in U4, though they were present in U3. Clerics could have easily fit into the U4 virtue system, taking the place of bards and having compassion as their “power virtue.” This would fit their protective/healing spells like a glove. Druids would have had medium skill in both mage and cleric spells, and rangers would have had elementary skill in both, making them basically fighter/druids, which would have fit just fine in most people’s conception of what a ranger is in an RPG at the time. It would have been so natural… how could a game about virtue not have clerics?!

    But now it makes perfect sense to me. Divine magic implies a deity or god, from which such magic derives its power. Once god enters the discussion, questions of virtue and morality often come down to what pleases or displeases this (often fickle and arbitrary) deity. Now you’re having a discussion about dogma and theology instead of virtue itself. If someone is bringing beauty or kindness into the world, I would want to think of it arising from intrinsic sources rather than being because they were promised 40 virgins and all-you-can-eat shrimp in the afterlife.

    I’m curious if many players who went on to Ultima V managed to do a true lawful good run of it and not follow the side path of betraying the password of the resistance to Blackthorn. I’m sad to say that, the first time I played U5, I couldn’t resist. I thought there would be something critical to completing the game down this path of using covert tactics to infiltrate the Oppression. Plus, I wanted to explore every centimeter of Blackthorn’s castle (IMO one of the coolest locales in the game) and it’s far easier to do so when you aren’t being harassed by the guards at every turn. I didn’t think about how giving up the password could, in the game world, result in the imprisonment and/or execution of countless innocents. Nowadays, of course, I also think: “They chose a one-syllable, common noun, nonrotating password… IDIOTS! Does this ragtag bumpkin Resistance WANT to get hacked?” But perhaps it would have broken the immersive spell of the game if they said “The password of the Resistance is T^53g$(2ds!gP… would you like to enable two-factor authentication?”

    I digress… anyway, great post on U4. This game is definitely not just a “win it and forget it” one. It stays with you.

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    1. I'll never tire of comments about U4. You make some excellent points about the difficulty of working clerics into the new universe, though I agree that the bard is a weird choice to embody the virtue of compassion. Perhaps just "healer" would have worked better, particularly since the bard doesn't really do anything bard-ish in the game.

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    2. I would follow any god who promised me an afterlife of all-you-can-eat shrimp.

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    3. I am an apostate of the mysterious Church of the Red Lobster, whose acolytes believed that an endless bounty of shrimp could be enjoyed by the faithful not just in the afterlife but here in the prime material plane as well. At its peak, this church constructed temples in nearly every American suburb. Unfortunately, as happens with many organized religions, corruption, grift, sex scandals, and poor accounting (specifically a failure to grasp just how much shrimp a typical American could consume in one sitting) took their toll. Nowadays, the church is only spoken of in hushed whispers. Speak not ill of the Great Crimson Crustacean, lest you incur His wrath! When the doors were barred at my local temple and a "closed" sign went up, I could be found in the parking lot crying out to the Red Lobster sign: "My God, my God, why hath thou forsaken me?" Thus ended my attempt to find enlightenment through organized religion. Back to the eight virtues of the avatar for this humble shepherd.

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    4. AlphabeticalAnonymousNovember 21, 2024 at 8:52 PM

      As of this writing, the "Data-Driven Gamer" blog is also working its way through U4. It offers an intriguingly different take than was given on these pages almost a decade and a half ago. I doubt I'll ever play the game, but it's certainly an interesting one to have learned a lot more about.

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    5. Although my own ethical teaching was accomplished by both this and ALSO Quest for Glory (I could seriously recommend the Paladin path of QfG as a no-less virtue-teaching edutaiment, perish the word, as U4), I personally can definitely share the sentiments you proclaim: all the more funny that, in QfG, there were NO gods, NO morality stemming from the "divine" - only from the pureness of heart itself, from compassion itself, from honor itself. So, there were Paladins but no Clerics and no Temples (almost like John Lennon sang once... "Imagine there's no religion...."). And when the religion was introduced, in Part 4, it was Cthulhu cult in a sort of Poe/Lawcraft crossover. But yet, there was compassion, there was sacrifice to save others from greater pain (not for the sake of itself), there was honor in keeping promises, and so on... (also, there were Genies, once imprisoned by Suleiman ben Daud, and something akin to either Star of David, or Anahata symbol - which, incindentally, U4 also contains). What you mentioned about virtue existing "to appease big heavenly brother" is very important, and is delightfully eloquently formulated by alternateWorld!Dupre in UUW2:"When a Virtue becomes mandatory, it has died as a Virtue - it is now simply Obedience! The fact that Obedience is one of Guardian's Virtues already nonwithsdanting, of course...". Yet - well - not all gods are like that (yeah, yeah, I know...) - I like how, in some Tolkien-ish rogue-like there were some Tolkein-ish "gods" (Vala) you could worship - or Eru Iluvatar godself. If you worshipped Eru, you gained piety in time, simply for being there, for being alive - Eru loves everyone so much, that just being there is enough to make him glad; of course, you could still incur his disfavor by doing bad things, but this, too, kinda fits: by killing, stealing, raping, cheating - you DO significantly lessen the chances of OTHER ppl "simply being there alive" - which, again, gladdens Eru - so hurting them saddens Eru, too. It's not like any religion here on earth, not evel like... ahem... well, let's be cautious here, shall we. But there is hardly any religion that does not ask for anything more than "live and let live" which is, well, the basis of virtue itself. So, a cleric of such a god - or of "abstract good" (some DnD editions allowed THAT, too) - could be possible; but it would ALSO break the aesthetics, too! Because U4 is all about meditations, mantras, and so on - it's much closer to "atheistic" religions like Buddhism or Shintoism. You do not go to the temple, you go to the shrine, you do not pray, you meditate. Still, having no explicit cleric solves the problem of absurdity of two magic systems nicely - in real world, everything called "magic" (shamanism, esoterics, Golden Dawn, Wicca - you name it)is at least half-religious by its roots if not nature.

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    6. By "absurdity" I mean the elephant-in-the-room of there not being healing arcane magic and the dilemma it represents - no natural explanation can be offered for why magic can do this and that and this other thing too but NOT heal; yet a perfect game-ey explanation of balance exists ("Just so that party NEEDS some divine castors and cannot do on arcane magic alone"). Still, the systems where it all is simply "magic" seem much, much more elegant and logical, at least IMO.

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    7. The biggest elephant in the room for many fantasy RPGs are the resurrection spells and the narrative's utter refusal to acknowledge their existence. The only RPG to my knowledge to work them into the main plot - and masterfully so - was Solasta: Crown of the Magister.

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