"Explore" mode makes me a lot bolder as to what I eat. |
Since my "explore" hiatus, I've played two regular characters. One, a priest named Joktan, died at the jaws of a soldier ant on Level 5. The second, a cave-man named Almodad, is on Level 9 and presently still alive. I wasn't going to tell you this, because every time I tell you one of my characters is doing well, he dies soon after. Then I remembered that, to date, 100% of my NetHack characters have died, so it's not like I can correlate it to my blog postings specifically.
Through my research and analysis, I've compiled the following list of major "dos" and "dont's" in the game. I make it a point to review these before each session to keep them fresh in my mind. I welcome any comments, corrections, or alternate viewpoints on any of them.
DO
- Drop all unidentified stuff on altars to at least see if its cursed. This is especially useful for armor, because you can tell by the AC whether it's better than what you already have, even if you don't identify it. You can also often figure out what rings and amulets do by putting them on. As long as you know these items aren't cursed, they're at least safe to experiment with.
This means the scroll was cursed. I had a cursed scroll of "remove curse." Does that mean they just cancel each other out? (Yes, I did get a lot of mileage out of this dungeon level.) |
- Use holy water for blessing things. Blessings augment whatever the item already does. I particularly like blessed scrolls of identify, which will identify multiple unknown items instead of just one. I'm curious to see how a blessed scroll of genocide acts, but scrolls of genocide are rare and I haven't found one in forever.
- Try to engage as many foes as possible in ranged combat, keeping daggers, bows, arrows, lances, spears, rocks, and other throwing items for this purpose. Too many enemies have attacks that really suck at close range, including blue jellies (cold!), gelatinous cubes (freeze), floating eyes (freeze), leprechauns (steal gold), nymphs (steal other items), acid blobs (corrode weapons and armor), were-creatures (inflict lycanthropy), and innumerable enemies that poison you. Many of these foes either don't move at all or don't necessarily make a beeline for you, so you have a decent chance of destroying them at range if you can avoid blundering upon them.
This character's inventory includes plenty of stuff to throw. |
- Carry a junk weapon to use against things like rust monsters and acid blobs, so you don't ruin your good weapon.
- Use the diagonal key to cut corners. Every step you save in corridors is a step that monsters don't get closer to you.
- Eat whenever there's fresh food available unless already satiated. You never know when you'll get another chance, and I haven't found any good reasons to ration.
- Test scrolls and potions in controlled environments. I find shops are good places after I've picked up an item or two, since the shopkeeper blocks the door. No enemies can suddenly appear while I'm temporarily blinded or stunned.
- Use the buying and selling price of items in shops to help figure out what they are. I think this varies based on charisma, so I haven't been able to map prices to items perfectly yet, but I keep meaning to analyze the effects of charisma and come up with a solid table.
- Use the "repeat" option instead of holding down the SPACE bar (to wait) or the S key (to search). "Repeat" interrupts you when something happens. I'm embarrassed how long it took me to master this.
- Go downstairs the moment you find stairs. Pop right back up again if you want to, but since the creatures encountered on each level are at a level equal to the average of your level and the dungeon level, and since they generate when you first appear, you'll get easier monsters if you go down right away. Combined with the following, I think it maximizes your chances.
- Try to reach a level equal to the next dungeon level before heading down permanently. At least, this seems to work best for me early-game and mid-game (or am I naive for even thinking I've reached "mid-game" yet?).
- Wait for hit points to recharge unless you desperately need to move forward (e.g., to find food).
DON'T
- Hold onto items in shops if inflicted with teleportitis. If you suddenly teleport out of the shop with unpaid merchandise, it counts as thefts, and a battalion of police officers swarms you.
- Eat anything that confers teleportitis unless you have a way to control it.
- Eat things that sound like they would be trouble, like dead spiders or acid blobs.
- Go charging down hallways. Pause between each step. Monsters come out of nowhere.
- Let yourself get impatient and frustrated until after you die. If you have to save and take a break, do it.
- Drink from fountains. Hardly anything good happens.
- Wear armor or weapons that you want to keep while reading unknown scrolls. They can diminish or destroy anything you have on. (On the other hand, if it's a scroll of enhance weapon or armor, you'll lose the benefit if you don't have anything on.)
- Eat when already satiated. You can choke and die.
- Waste potions of Extra Healing on hit point regeneration if you have any other options. They also cure sickness, poison, and blindness, and you're more likely to need them for those conditions.
- Ditch your dog or cat. They help, even if they make navigation annoying.
- Waste time and energy (read: hunger) searching for secret doors unless you really need what's on the other side (i.e., the stairs).
- Trust anything while under the effects of hallucination.
This is embarrassing. It looked like a yeti while it was killing me. |
- Feel like you have to engage every enemy. If they're not bothering you, you may want to leave them alone.
- Throw harmful potions at creatures right next to you. You get splash-back.
- Try to wander around when confused, stunned, or blind. You step into traps, rouse monsters, and accidentally kill your allies.
- Forget about "ELBERETH!" It can buy you a couple of moves when you need them most.
It was probably still too early in my NetHack career to narrate a video of the game, but I did the one below (also here) a couple of days ago. I thought it might be an epic adventure, but I ended up dying after about 20 minutes. In the post-game analysis, I realized several things I could have done to save myself, including escaping sooner and a more intelligent use of ELBERETH. I'm curious what other gameplay mistakes that you find, but watching the video is probably going to be more useful to those who haven't played NetHack than to those who have.
There are a few things I'm confused about for which I wouldn't mind some hints if you have them:
1. I'll just be sitting around, minding my own business, and suddenly I'm "blinded by a blast of light!" What the hell is that? How can I get it to stop?
What yellow light?! |
2. I don't really understand the different colors the corridors turn as I play. I can't really tell color anyway, but as I explore, the corridor seems to turn white, but then it degrades to gray later on. Then, suddenly, individual squares will turn to brown (or red) or yellow (or orange) somewhat randomly. Is there something I can do with this information?
3. Every few characters, when I start the game, it tells me that there's a "new moon tonight" or a "full moon tonight." Does this actually mean anything when it comes to gameplay?
How should I be careful? |
Someone's been mining Genesis 10 for the Nethack character names...
ReplyDeleteNot just there. I started with "Adam." Hopefully, I'll finish before "Apollyon," which I think is the last person's name to appear for the first time.
Delete+1 I'm a fan.
DeleteA few things:
ReplyDelete1) "Test scrolls and potions in [...] shops." Be very careful with this, there are some bad ones to test in these conditions.
2) "Go charging down hallways. Pause between each step. Monsters come out of nowhere." - You can use Shift to run down a hallway, and it'll stop automatically when you get to a monster, corner, room or other interesting feature. Very handy.
3) "I'll just be sitting around, minding my own business, and suddenly I'm "blinded by a blast of light!" What the hell is that? How can I get it to stop?" - Yellow lights. It's a monster that rolls up to you and explodes, blinding you. There are a couple of items that can be used to protect yourselves.
4) "I don't really understand the different colors the corridors turn as I play." - white and gray usually indicate if squares are lit or not, but I'm not entirely certain what the other effects you're describing are.
4) "Does this actually mean anything when it comes to gameplay?" Yes it does, and it's pretty darn subtle, the sort of effect that is going to be very tough to figure out without someone telling you about a subsystem of the game. I'm happy to add more if you want, but you might be able to figure it out based on your death screens.
Thanks for clearing up the light thing. For some reason, it never occurred to me that it's a creature.
DeleteI don't find corridors to be long enough to automate the traveling of them. The issue was more that I was just hitting keys too rapidly.
I'll try to take a screenshot of the corridor colors and repost if no one knows what I'm referring to.
It's been a little while since I've played Nethack, but I've ascended every character class (man of them more than once), so I still remember most of this stuff and am happy to help out, as obliquely or clearly as you'd like.
DeleteYou've already met lycanthropes...and you are asking if the moon effects anything. It also effects you luck I think.
ReplyDeleteAlso note; scroll names are randomized each game, to prevent you from memorizing them.
Yes, I know about the scrolls. I didn't say it very clearly. What I was associating wasn't the names but the cryptic text you get as to the effects (e.g., "You feel like someone is helping you" = Remove Curse).
DeleteSo does that mean the moon phase determines how often you change? It would be nice if "new moon" meant you didn't change at all.
The moon phase doesn't change how often you transform if you have lycanthropy, no. That's a timed effect, although the time you are playing does have an effect on how often the timer goes off.
DeleteThe full moon gives you bonus luck to start the game. Luck is pervasive in the game, and gives a bonus/penalty to many of the things you'll try to do. Certainly, most of the things you attempt in the game that have a range of things that can happen are modified by your luck.
A new moon doesn't actually change your luck, but Friday the 13th does. The changes in starting luck aren't really that significant, it's just a piece of flavor.
Spoilers, but it's for a very subtle thing that's hard to figure out for yourself:
DeleteYhpx vf na vaivfvoyr fgngvfgvp genpxrq ol gur tnzr gung nssrpgf znal guvatf, zbfg abgnoyl gb-uvg naq npgvbaf gung unir enaqbz erfhygf yvxr qevaxvat sebz sbhagnvaf. Cenlre arire jbexf vs yhpx vf artngvir. Yhpx graqf gb abeznyvmr gb n onfr inyhr, hfhnyyl 0, ohg qhevat n shyy zbba gur onfr vf +1.
Yeah, I never would have gotten that on my own, so I'm glad I translated.
Deletejust wanted to say thanks for your great Blog. I started reading your archive after your standard.at-interview and now i am up to date :)
ReplyDeleteThanks for joining us, cs. I'm glad you like it.
DeleteSome scrolls would probably be iffy to use in shops, can't think offhand of any potions that would be really bad. Starting messages (like full moon tonight) can affect luck. Other things can affect luck during the game so it can go back and forth during a game, it should show on your intrinsics list if has been adjusted and it also shows you after you die (not as useful).
ReplyDeleteThe one potion I was thinking of is a corner case, and probably not really worth worrying about most of the time.
DeleteHmmm, from memory.... Cursed potion of gain level?
DeleteThat's the one.
DeleteNothing to do with luck ever shows up for me as an intrinsic. Are you sure that wasn't implemented later?
DeleteWhat would be so bad about drinking a cursed potion of gain level in a shop? At worst, you'd levitate up the previous level, right?
Well, if you are holding stuff from the shopkeeper...
DeleteIt is actually not a bad way of stealing stuff, but you have to be prepared to deal with the fallout when you go back.
As for luck, you are getting the moon messages, so its there in your version. I could tell you some good ways to test it, if you want. The thing about luck is that it times out toward zero (usually), so you might not notice it. Next time you have a full moon, just suicide and check.
If nothing about luck shows up when you look at your intrinsics in wizard mode then it was not yet implemented in that version.
DeleteI just checked the wiki for 3.0 stuff, and there is a luck related item that first made an appearance there, so I'm pretty sure that this version does have luck. It might not show up yet in the intrinsics list, though.
Deletethanks for the posts. good blog.
ReplyDeleteChatting can be useful to get a rough idea of the status of your pet. Chatting to priests will result in them asking for a donation, which can have various effects depending on how much you donate and whether the priest is co-aligned.
ReplyDeleteAny easy way to tell if the priest is co-aligned? I just wasted $1,000 on nothing.
DeleteEasy way is to look at the altar.
DeleteDuh. That bloody "look" command; why do I always forget it?
DeleteThere is a very specific amount (which is a multiple of your character level) that will generate a beneficial effect for your character. I could tell you the specific amount but that seems unnecessarily spoilerish.
DeleteWhile standing on an item, chat and the shopkeeper will tell you how much it costs. (I think, maybe not in 3.0)
DeleteSome of the monsters have amusing chat replies, as you found with the hobbit. There's one monster that shouts insults at you, and if you chat with him, he'll insult you some more.
DeleteIn the video at 15:40, badly hurt Joktan retreats from the door in the east wall, after killing a gnome lord and a soldier ant. He first goes straight west, till he hits the wall. I think if he went diagonally north-west, towards the north-wall door, he'd have a better tactical situation later, when more ants came into the room.
ReplyDeleteGood point. I wasn't in "retreat" mode yet, though I should have been. I was trying to maintain a line-of-sight on the door so I could throw things. (I know you can throw diagonally, but I always have trouble lining it up.)
DeleteThis ties in with one of my previous comments: Recognizing which monsters should put you in retreat mode (or "bring out the nukes" mode) as soon as you glimpse them is a learned (and essential) judgement skill. Wands are very effective nukes in the mid-game. Two types of wands are also very effective escape tools.
DeleteSoldier ants are possibly the most dangerous game in Nethack on a monster-level basis. They move fast and are poisonous and can appear in packs. Using charges on a wand in order to kill one is a worthy investment.
This brings to mind nethack.alt.org, which is the most popular online hub for nethack. They don't run a 3.0.x version so you can't play your games online currently, but you could check out a couple games in 3.4.3. You could even tell us your Player name if you chose, so we could observe your progress (or lack thereof). ;-)
Nethack.alt.org has all sorts of interesting data that will probably keep you fascinated for a while.
Don't miss the table of "Top Deaths", where your friend the soldier ant reigns supreme.
http://alt.org/nethack/topdeaths.html
Beware the many, many spoilers that are linked from this site. Spoil at your own risk.
Spoilers relating to ants and poison:
DeleteNyy nagf ner qnatrebhf gb ybj-yriry punenpgref, ohg fbyqvre nagf ner cnegvphyneyl qnatrebhf. Va nqqvgvba gb fjnezvat, uvtu fcrrq naq tbbq qnzntr, gung cbvfba nggnpx unf n fznyy punapr rnpu uvg bs vafgnagyl xvyyvat n aba-cbvfba-erfvfgnag punenpgre. Oneonevnaf ner cbvfba erfvfgnag sebz gur bhgfrg, juvpu vf bar bs gur ernfbaf gurl'er gur zbfg fheivinoyr pynff va gur rneyl tnzr.
Tnvavat cbvfba erfvfgnapr vf na vzcbegnag rneyl tnzr tbny. Gur ceboyrz vf, zbfg bs gur guvatf gung lbh pna rng gb tnva vg ner gurzfryirf cbvfbabhf. Lbh arire qvr sebz pbecfr cbvfba (abgr: qvssrerag sebz pbecfrf gung fvpxra), ohg vg pna qenva Fgeratgu, juvpu znxrf vg uneq gb pneel guvatf. Haphefrq/oyrffrq havpbea ubeaf pna svk gung jvgu ercrngrq nccyvpngvbaf gubhtu.
I do tend to do well with barbarians. Does something make them a bad choice in the later game?
DeleteNot really, no. In the long ago past, I actually wrote up a guide to character selection, with strengths and weaknesses, and the barbarian is what I recommended for folks looking for their first win.
DeleteReally? My best luck was with Valks. Yummy super low AC. Will have to try a barbarian next.
DeleteMy recommendation for barbarians had to do with their prowess in combat combined with a certain intrinsic that was enormous helpful for new players. Valkyries, from memory, were my next recommendation. I had them grouped into three tiers of difficulty - I should see if I can dig that article out.
DeleteHi Joshua John Buergel! I have a (very old) version saved on my computer if you need. It still has Elves as a class though, so I'm not sure that is the latest version.
DeleteHey, that's me! Yeah, it kicked around in assorted spoilers docs for a while, and was written right around the transition to 3.1. I think there are probably a few different conclusions I'd draw these days, and it's out of date, but the top line is still probably true: barbarians, valkyries, samurai and elves (all subject to availability) are the easiest classes to start out with.
DeleteHere you go: Dangerously outdated now (Knights and Tourists both have loads of Intristics at high levels as I recall) http://pastebin.com/87Ekdent
DeleteRemoved your email to prevent spam, and as it is probably outdated.
Also; really helped me out when I was getting started, thanks.
DeleteIt's a little strange so see something you wrote close to 20 years ago for a Usenet group resurface, but I guess this blog is all about re-surfacing things from the past. But I'm glad to have helped out, so it's my pleasure.
DeleteAll this is making me want to start up a new game of Nethack and see how it's evolved in recent versions, a time sink I absolutely do not need.
If it helps, I downloaded it in 2006 or so, so it would have only been 15 years then.
Delete...I'm not sure that helps, no. Actually, that is really cool, and it's quite a testament to the game that it has remained a viable and fun game for that long.
DeleteHave you tried reading scrolls when drunk or confused? I'd remember that causing interesting results.
ReplyDeleteThere are some really crucial things in that vein, not to mention some hazards.
DeleteUgh. In addition to what happens when a scroll is "cursed" or "blessed," I probably have to start researching an entirely new column now (I'm not sure drunkenness is possible in this version, but confusion definitely is). Actually, I'm guessing a confused reading of a blessed scroll probably has different effects than a confused reading of a cursed scroll. Christ, I have to create a RELATIONAL database now?
Delete"Drunk" is the same as "confused", so it's not quite that bad. But yes, the blessed/cursedness still plays a role.
DeleteMost of the changes for confused usage mirror the changes in blessed/cursed usage, which helps.
DeleteAnd some scrolls have different effects if cursed/blessed if you're confused!
DeleteSome of the confused effects, however, are important. The only thing to really have to be absolutely careful never to do is reading a scroll of genocide while confused. Not if you care about your character. Even an amulet of life saving won't protect you in that event!
Oh, and be careful with hallucination and scrolls as well.
DeleteSo you have
Deletescroll|cursed|blessed|normal|confused|sober|affect
ouch, that appears to be quite interesting!
Does hallucination have different effects or just change the name on the scrolls?
DeleteI had a memory of hallucination having different effects in 3.0, but i read some more this morning, and i think that might have been a faulty memory.
DeleteSome direct responses to your Do and Don't lists:
ReplyDelete- Based on your reference to using holy water, I'm guessing that you've figured out how to create regular potions of water and then make them into holy water. This is a core Nethack activity, because many scrolls and potions are WAY better when used in their blessed states. Blessed weapons and armor also benefit in ways that I won't spoil.
- Cutting corners while moving and understanding what square a monster will move to based on your movements is vital. Some monsters are slower than you; this can be exploited to give you "free hits", especially once you get intrinsic speed (or, even better, a certain mercurial footwear.)
- Buying and selling prices are indeed based on Charisma (and in some cases, on character class). A tool called Clippy was created back in the dark ages of the internet, which still exists online if you are at a place where you wish to be spoiled in that manner. I think of Clippy as a very minor spoiler because it's really just aggregating knowledge that I can gather on my own (but that is arguably true of all Nethack spoilers). Prices may have changed between 3.0.x and 3.4.x though!
- Reaching character level X before going to dungeon level X is a good EARLY game benchmark. Food constraints will probably cause you to abandon this in mid-game, which is intentional.
- Absolutely wait for hit points (and magic power) to recharge before exploring any unexplored territory, unless there is some dire reason not to do so.
- Teleportitis is to be avoided at all costs unless you already have the means to control it.
- Shift + direction key will cause you to run (and be interrupted by monster sightings) in SOME versions. I don't know if yours has that. Try turning Num Lock on and off, but it may not be in that version.
- Finally, and most importantly: Control the terms of engagment. Tactical retreat, either to a hallway or to another level, is a vital skill. Knowing when to bash in melee and when to reach into your inventory is the difference between a knowledgeable player and a player who can ascend regularly.
The complexity of Nethack (and Slash'EM) are what make them arguably the best turn-based CRPGs ever. So much fun to share the experience of re-learning the game! Thank you.
Thanks for the clarifications, Dave! On your first point: No, I haven't figured out how to turn regular water into holy water. I'm guessing it has to do with altars, but I haven't had a lot of potions of regular water to experiment with yet.
DeleteBut have you figured out how to create water yet?
DeleteNope. In the dark on that one, too.
DeleteWell, there's a certain dungeon feature that you've mentioned in your don'ts that plays a big role.
DeleteQvyhgvba.
DeleteOne other thing that is important and very difficult to figure out on your own is that wearing rings increases your food consumption (except slow digestion, obviously). That doesn't you mean you shouldn't wear rings. It's just a piece of information to factor into the decision.
ReplyDelete"2. Please avoid profanity and gross imagery. I don't want my blogged flagged by too many filters." I feel so flattered! Is the second half of this warning directly because of my... Gross Imagery... filled posting about the stinking abomination that is Bloodwych? This is the first time in all my days I have ever been the cause of a warning on any blog.
ReplyDeleteOnward. These Nethack posts are... nyah. To me, I hasten to add- I realize that while I think Nethack posts are a waste of valuable blog space and time since you'll be moving upward in version numbers soon and you could be playing and posting about good games... But it is your blog, I will actually grudgingly admit that.
So have a good day eh.
So, posting the site with nethack images of a rather explicit nature. Allowed or not allowed.
DeleteYes, it exists. No, I'm not joking.
You are truly a bizarre individual william.
DeleteNote -- you can buy items while you have teleportitis safely by chatting with the shopkeeper to find out the price of the item, dropping the correct amount on the floor, and then picking the item up.
ReplyDeleteAh, that's a good system. I figured if I just paid right away, there would be a low chance I'd teleport on the one move between picking the item up and paying for it. The one time I got in trouble, I was loaded with items and hadn't paid yet.
DeleteYou should have cast sleep over and over until all the soldier ants were asleep! You died with 27 spell power. Elbereth is pretty weak, if you write it with something metal then it will last longer.
ReplyDeleteAlso, when you're in a safe place, just read all your unidentified scrolls. There aren't enough identify scrolls to go around, save them for rings and amulets. Just figure the first scroll of each type you get is a waste anyway.
I don't use spells much and I'm a little confused by them. I thought the "(1)" after the sleep spell indicated I could only cast it once.
DeleteThat's either the spell level or the magic points needed, I forget. Possibly both. You can cast spells until you run out of power.
DeleteI feel like kind of an idiot now. I should have realized something was wrong with that assumption.
DeleteIn all fairness, the magic system is the ONE thing they didn't crib from D&D.
DeleteAs I remember it, spells in 3.0 were kind of dodgy. They changed them in 3.1 to make them more useful, but my memory of things is sufficiently fuzzy that I don't really remember exactly what changed. I want to say that they added the ability to refresh your memory from the same book in 3.1.
DeleteOh yeah, you need to check out the .nethackrc or "Nethack options" file. It's a configuration file somewhere in your nethack directory. It lets you specify things so that the game plays the way you like it. That's where you configure how many high scores to list on exit, and suchlike. You can also read LOGFILE and RECORD to see all your deaths and import them into Excel, so as to analyze what you keep dying from.
ReplyDeleteThanks! I thought the high scores listing was a bug.
DeleteI've been tracking my own character data in my online NetHack notes. Once I hit 100 characters, I plan do do a big analysis.
LOGFILE and RECORD are files in the main nethack directory, they contain the complete list of finished games and the high scores respectively. Remember nethack was typically installed on a multi-user UNIX system, so there would be a lot of people playing, so you could compete with all the other users on the system.
DeleteI believe the configuration file is called 'NETHACK.CNF' and lets you configure the game the way you like. OPTIONS=dogname:Fido to name your dog (you can name any monster, some like the shopkeepers and *CENSORED* are already named). There is a lot of cruft in the options file to allow people to set graphic characters correctly on their terminals and such. OPTIONS=norest_on_space is a good one, I used to die all the time from accidentally hitting the spacebar (use . instead to rest). There is also autopickup and pickup_types to let you auto-pickup scrolls, wands, and such while avoiding armor and rocks. You can also set fruit to whatever you like and the game will use that text instead of 'slime mold'. The scores list can be set to show you the top 10 and the 5 scores near yours every time you die, or something like that. An advantage to using the same character name every time is that you'll get a sense of your own high scores, the game will keep the top 3 barbarian scores, top 3 tourists, etc. All of this should be in the documentation.
You can also hit shift-O to adjust options in-game, although some of them can only be set from the configuration file.
The blue walls are graphic glitches, I believe. They have no meaning in any version of nethack I've ever played.
I've been posting about that since you started nethack 3! *grumble*
DeleteMine is called defaults.nh, but I understand it changes over time/OS.
I've got
OPTIONS=objects:])[="(%!?+/$*è0_.
Not sure what I changed though, I did it about 6 years ago (anyone?)
OPTIONS=dogname:Shrodinger,catname:Plank,fruit:Yarpick Nut,horsename:Turing
OPTIONS=msghistory:250
OPTIONS=scores:3 top/3 around/own
OPTIONS=time,showexp,number_pad:1,lit_corridor
Those are most of the ones I set; the rest relate to ASCII graphics of various sorts.
One more thing: there are poisonous corpses and rotten corpses. Poisonous deal poison damage, while rotten corpses have been lying around too long and will kill you with food poisoning. Eat fresh!
ReplyDeleteYeah, I learned that one early on. Eat right away or forget it.
Delete