Saturday, October 12, 2024

Game 530: Swords and Serpents (1990)

"Dear graphics department: Not that kind of serpent."
        
Swords and Serpents
United States
Interplay (developer); Acclaim (publisher)
Released 1990 for NES
Date Started: 8 October 2024
    
Commenters have been on me to try this one for years. It is a rare console game, and even rarer NES game, from a western developer. It clearly draws upon Interplay's experience with The Bard's Tale and other games of its ilk; indeed, its original lead designer, Paul O'Connor, also led the creation of Dragon Wars the same year. It benefited from slick marketing, which included cover art by Boris Vallejo and a rare (for the genre) television commercial. [Ed. To clarify, I didn't play it because comments have been on me for years. It was the product of a random roll.]
       
Given all of this, the game is surprisingly lame. I've taken plenty of shots at console games of the era, but I know that the platform was capable of better than this dumbed-down Bard's Tale in which every mechanic is more limited than any multi-character CRPG from five or six years earlier. I think I might have enjoyed the unrelated 1982 Intellivision game more. Nonetheless, I had a little fun with it, particularly when I started mapping. I'm never completely dissatisfied when I'm mapping. 
      
The party fights what I guess is a zombie.
      
The developers wasted no time on the story. Four adventurers have entered a dungeon on a quest to find and kill a serpent who has made "the crops go bad, the milk turn sour, and the earth heave with foul indignation." One wonders if the serpent isn't being scapegoated here, as I don't remember any setting that gives dragons the power to disease crops or sour milk. The default party--the one described in the manual--includes one warrior (Ajax), a thief (Mask), and two magicians (Iago and Erin). You can create your own, rolling for strength, intelligence, and agility on a scale of 2-14. I decided to go with a less magical party and played two warriors, a thief, and a magician. A few hours into it, and I think I'm going to regret not having two magicians.
    
An NPC--whose survival in this dungeon is unexplained--gives us the main quest.
     
I should mention that the game supports campaigns with two or four players--two with both game controllers and four with a four-player adapter. One player has to be designated the "lead"; he can move the entire party while the others can just control their character actions and inventories. This system strikes me as so pointless and annoying in a blobber that I can't imagine that anyone ever did it.
       
Rolling a new character.
     
The game begins in the top level of a dungeon of what I guess is 16 levels, since the blank maps provided in the manual go up to 16. Each level is 16 x 16 squares. In the tradition of other gridded blobbers, the dungeon is peppered with messages and encounters, including plenty of battles. The graphics offer only the most basic textures, and you don't see anything in the environment. The most banal, repetitive tune plays on an endless loop, and the game offers no ability to turn it off. I had to mute sound entirely.
    
Enemies respawn continually, with a chance of attack every time you move or turn. The game cycles through your characters in order of their appearance on the screen, and if you just mash the "A" button, you'll execute a default attack and get the battle over quickly. Health meters for the enemies monitor your progress. You theoretically can target the enemy's head or legs by holding the up or down directional buttons while hitting "A." Maybe this becomes important later, but I didn't notice any difference in the zombies, spiders, guards, and bats that I encountered on Level 1.
 
I imagine this is some kind of ogre.
     
Mages can naturally cast spells by hitting the "B" button during their turn. They start with only "Flash Fire" and "Heal," but I found "Sting" fairly early on Level 1. ("The ways of magic are scattered through the maze," a message offers.) The manual indicates that the game offers 16 possible spells, and that I'll eventually find mass-damage spells like "Phalanx" and "Thunder." For now, "Flash Fire" and "Sting" don't seem to do much more than physical attacks, so I've been saving my points for "Heal."
    
Late in the session, Kirk goes to cast a spell.
     
Despite the need to cast an occasional spell, I found combat exceedingly boring even holding down the TAB key in Nestopia to speed it up. If I weren't mapping at the same time, I'm not sure I'd put up with the relentless repetitiveness of this one.
    
Slain enemies reward the party with gold and experience and occasionally an item. The party gains experience and levels as a unit rather than as individual characters. Gold can be spent at an armory on Level 1. I assume that armories are found on other levels, but I'm not sure. I mostly used the armory to sell things, but it offers Swords +2 worth grinding for.
     
Leveling up.
       
Levels 1, 5, and 10 (according to a message) also offer temples, which heal you for free. These are the only places to raise dead characters. I imagine they're good places to grind, since you can just mash "A" with abandon and then turn around and get healed. I got the party up to Level 4 doing this, while earning enough money to buy one of those +2 swords.
        
My primary fighter's equipment late in this session.
       
On Level 1, I learned that to slay the dragon, I would need to collect seven "ruby treasures" which had belonged to a previous adventurer. One of them is apparently a ruby sword, which lies "at the point of the sword." An NPC in a 1 x 1 room asked for the "black crystal," but I never found it on the level, so I guess I'll be coming back here later.
     
Rude!
     
The levels all have names, which you can check by going to the party status option. Level 1 is called "Destiny Awaits." Level 2's name is "Who's Zoomin' Who?," which refers to the first appearance of "zoom tubes," or fast transports from one level to another. A couple of early messages explained how they work. Late in the level, you step into one (after a couple of messages of warning), which takes you back up to Level 1, in a spot near the store and healer. The tube is only two steps away from the stairs to Level 3 in terms of coordinates, but it's 60 steps given the wall patterns. I assume that later, when I'm trying to transition levels quickly, I'll be expected to use the mage's "Passwall" spell.
        
There was nothing wrong when they were just "teleporters."
      
The return trip to Level 1 was welcome, as I needed to heal, and I had a lot of items to sell. When I was done, I had enough money for a second +2 sword. I also found various armor upgrades during my explorations--helms, shields, scale mail, and such. Watching your armor class slowly increase is an experience that never really gets old in any game.
    
Nintendo was capable of the "+" symbol, correct?
    
The northwest section of Level 2 was taken up with a maze of 1 x 1 rooms. I wish developers wouldn't do this. They offer no navigational challenge, yet they're a pain in the neck to map. The only things to find in the maze were a +1 sword and the "Shield" spell, which increases armor class by 1. It can be cast out of combat, which is useful, but it doesn't last all that long.
     
An oddly prophetic name.
      
Level 2 had a 2 x 2 area that I couldn't enter plus a door in the southeast corner locked with a gold key. This meant, as with the black crystal (and a 1 x 1 area) on Level 1, I'd have to come back at some point. I'm glad I'm mapping.
      
My map of Level 2.
     
Level 2 had the same spiders, bats, guards, and zombies as Level 1, though they seemed harder. It also had some warty-faced thing that was probably meant to be an ogre. There were four of these guarding the way to Level 3 in a fixed encounter, and it took me a couple of tries to beat them. The party rose to character Level 5 before we took the stairs down.

Level 3 ("The Threshold") began with a tough combat against a new enemy--some kind of sorcerer, I guess--which put us at character Level 6. A corridor brought us to a central room with four doors, but only the southwest one was unlocked. Each door led to a different quadrant, and the shtick of the level was that we needed to trip a switch in each section to unlock the door to the next one. (If we couldn't figure it out, an NPC helpfully offered, "Locked doors have remote triggers.") The southwest quadrant had a tube back to Level 1 and a horseshoe.
       
My map of Level 3.
      
The northwest section had a little maze and the "Deadeye" spell, which improves accuracy for one character in one battle. It hardly seems worth it. The southeast quadrant offered the laziest of all gridded dungeon designs: a spiral. I suppose in this case it served a purpose, as it ended in a blank wall, where 99% of players were bound to test for secret doors. If you hadn't already figured out how secret doors work, this section would teach you. As if to drive it home, an NPC on the other side says, "Ah . . . that was a secret door."
       
That David played and it pleased the Lord?
       
The northeast quadrant was full of traps, but a message in the southwest had warned, "To avoid the traps to the northwest [sic], stay near the walls." In addition to the stairs leading down to Level 4, the quadrant also held a fountain where mages could restore spell points and (behind a secret door) a gold key. I used it back on Level 2 and found the Ruby Glasses. 
     
The game makes it sound like Chet is doing something wrong.
        
The only new enemy I noticed on the level was some kind of skeletal thing. It seems too early for liches, but I don't know what else is skeletal and floats. As with Level 2, the bats, spiders, guards, and zombies seemed to hit extra hard.
     
I asked ChatGPT, "What is a good punchline to the riddle, 'What is skeletal and floats?'" It came up with: "A buoy-t." I don't know what it means, but that's what I'm calling this enemy from now on.
     
Let's talk about saving. As I usually do, I've tried to adhere to the game's intended difficulty by walking all the way back to the temple when a character dies, and by not otherwise using save states to undo bad luck or bad choices. I am not, however, adhering to the game's intended process for loading and reloading when I suffer a full-party death or end a session. Despite appearing three years after Zelda had no trouble with saving, Swords requires you to write down a 10- or 12-character code for each character, plus another 14-character code for the game itself. Remember, you have to re-enter all these codes by arrowing around an on-screen keyboard with the directional pad. "Reloading" must have taken half an hour. Even then, the code doesn't save the experience points you've earned towards the next character level, nor the auto maps, nor the exact dungeon level the party was on. Instead, when you reload, you return to the closest temple. Screw that.
    
I'm curious how players who encountered this game on the NES felt about it. I'm conscious these days that I look for a different experience with console RPGs than computer RPGs, and I'm not sure that paper maps and external notes are part of that experience. And surely the music lovers turned the music off for this one, right?
   
Time so far: 5 hours

81 comments:

  1. Made by the same guy, this game seems to share some monster graphics with Dragon Wars.

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  2. And that's why we usually exclude console rpg's from this blog, thank god.

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    1. This better not be one of those situations where people tell me to play a game for six years and then they all disappear when I actually play it.

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    2. From what I remember, most of the people who were suggesting it did so primarily because it was so similar in structure to a regular wRPG while not being a direct port.

      I also suspect that most of the people suggesting it hadn't actually played it in many years.

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    3. A much stronger argument of this sort can be made for Shadowrun on Genesis, which is a better wRPG than most wRPGs of the era and the only faithful adaptation of that TT ruleset.

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    4. A console game is never going to beat a CRPG at its own genre. All of the good console/Japanese RPGs are a totally different style of game, and all of the ones like this that try to be Wizardry/Bard’s Tale style games are bad.

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  3. I played this as a kid and did not like it. I had already played Might and Magic and Pool of Radiance (for the NES -- this was before I had a computer capable of playing any real games) and this just seemed boring in comparison. I do remember Nintendo Power doing big coverage on this to highlight the Multitap (the four player adapter).

    Most of the blobber games published in this era were nowhere near as good as the computer game blobbers (although some of them were just ports). The only games I am aware of that would have given them any competition were the Megami Tensei games, which were never brought out in the US. Megami Tensei 1 is pretty impressive for 1987 despite its many flaws -- it's still mostly a game centered around mapping a mostly empty dungeon, but it shares this quality with the early Wizardry and Bard's Tale games so that's not a fatal flaw if you are into that sort of thing.

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  4. Wraiths are skeletal and float. Although I rather like the name buoy-t, too!

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  5. NES didn't natively support saving though; Zelda was developed by Nintento in-house and made use of special memory chips. Could be that the tech simply wasn't available to Interplay (or was too expensive).

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    1. Acclaim would have likely been the one to make that decision, and considering some of their other games from the era they were probably too cheap to get the good carts

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    2. Cost would absolutely have been the culprit, yes; battery-backed SRAM was one of the most costly cartridge additions and so it was very frequent for developers not to opt for it when they could get away with it.

      On top of that, an obscure fact is that in Japan, the NES (or Famicom as it was known there) had a floppy disk drive add-on (the disks were similar to 3.5" floppies but had a different form factor and thus were proprietary to the Famicom), and most of the early games that had save functionality in the United States were games that had originally, in Japan, been released in this floppy disk format; Zelda was one of those.

      Even Dragon Quest didn't support battery-backed saves until its third entry in Japan; the localized versions mercifully added that functionality instead of keeping their password systems.

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    3. The first Metroid was a first party Nintendo release that came out at the same time in NA as Zelda, and it has the clunky password system Chet has described simply because Nintendo didn't have enough RAM chips for the two games and thought Zelda would be more successful.

      Of course Nintendo kind of underestimated the combination of such an open password system and millions of kids with a lot of time on their hands:

      https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/22069/why-does-the-infamous-engageridleymotherfucker-metroid-password-break-nes-emul

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    4. Right, whoever wrote that Stackexchange post doesn't know what the word "bricked" means. He actually means that invalid password can *crash* the game.

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    5. the weird thing is, going over it in my head, I reckon there's less than 100 bits of state in a Zelda save. You could encode it with sixteen case-sensitive alphanumeric characters. It's not the most onerous thing in the world.

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  6. If you had a computer back then you would probably skip most of the subpar console RPG's (back then the JRPG and action RPG for consoles were where the good stuff was, along with the occasional port [Might and Magic, Wizardry, Bard's Tale, Pool of Radiance]). Most computers were shared by the family back then or dominated by the parents, so having access to RPG's, no matter how subpar, we took what we could get on consoles as kids. Swords and Serpents sucked, but my brother and I played multi-player, since it was a way for both of us to play without one or the other monopolizing our single crtv and nes

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  7. This feels like a poor attempt at making Baby's First RPG, where it's less an attempt at making a Bard's Tale style game for NES and more making it for children. The system was seen as a kid's toy, and it would not surprise me in the slightest if Interplay didn't know how to simplify things for children without just stripping it down to a relatively basic dungeon crawler. Although, considering Acclaim's involved it's possible this was contract work on too small a budget and too strict of deadlines for it to be anything other than a basic dungeon crawler

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    1. Also, on the "+" question, the NES had no default system font so that's entirely an Interplay decision

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    2. I think you may be correct here, because when I read this blog about some of the games I played as a kid, A LOT of things that are treated as obvious (most notably - finding hidden rooms through mapping) never crossed my mind, because this would break a lot of conventions in other genres; yet if you are constantly exposed to CRPG's (I wasn't at the time), this is almost mandatory. Given how the hidden door is spelled out, I think it was definitely aimed at new players.

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  8. You miss a lot of advantages of "code saves" for console games:

    1. Can share them at school
    2. Can come to friend's house and play there
    3. Your siblings can't overwrite your save

    In fact, the last one is worth it already

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    1. I never thought about it this way, and it had me chuckling for about a minute...

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    2. Also no limit on the number of save slots.

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    3. Just the other day, I was playing Mario RPG with my kids. They proceeded to delete my saved game right before the end for reasons that only made sense to an 8 year old.

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    4. Good points. I thought of another one as I was playing: It's a way to fast-travel to the temple, if you don't mind losing your accumulated experience. I still think the experience of copying down and re-entering 58 characters would have been a bit excruciating.

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    5. BTW, how does it work with characters? Can I, for the sake of an argument, enter the code for one of my characters only and import into, say, my friend's adventure when I come over? I.e. can four kids come together with one code each, enter it, and thus get "their own" heroes?

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    6. Yes, you can use the character passwords to bring a character from one game to another. Not surprising coming from Interplay.

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  9. Commenters have been on me to try this one for years.

    Jeez, who? I haven't even tried to crack this, and I've been chipping away at the NES library for ages. I'd far sooner see you tackle a Phantasy Star or even Fatal Labyrinth than one of these awkward stunted CRPG attempts on the NES. (No legitimate claim on your time is implied by the above, obviously.)

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    1. I'm familiar with this game but only because it was played at Big Bad Gameathon alongside other "classics" like The Demon Rush and Ancient Roman Power of Dark Side.

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    2. > Jeez, who?

      My guess: the same who enjoy rants -like the reviews of the AVGN e.g.

      Another theory would be... we had this game as kids. It was at the same time: 1) original 2) promising a lot (character construction! Multiplayer!)

      The fact that it obviously didn't deliver upon its promises didn't refrain us from scratching our heads a few weeks: it is really that bad? Or is it us, not getting it for some reason?
      Sometimes you just need a confirmation from a established authority ;-).

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    3. The funniest outcome will be when Chester goes back through the old comments and sees that the commenters were really on him to try an unrelated NES game called Tower of Doom.

      (Referring back to the post on the <a href="https://crpgaddict.blogspot.com/2021/07/brief-swords-serpents-1982.html'>Intellivision game</a> he links here. Which provides valuable context for "I think I might have enjoyed the unrelated 1982 Intellivision game more," since that post ends by telling the designer "you are a c#*@#(*(!, m@%!*&^, #%@# of @#&% who couldn't #@(@% his own #%&*! if he had a @#%@#*&.")

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    4. @matt w: Close, but not quite -- there's no NES game called Tower of Doom (though there is an arcade game that was ported to the Sega Saturn!). He took a Patreon request to cover the Intellivision game Tower of Doom, but initially misremembered and covered the Intellivision game Swords and Serpents instead.

      If this entry is the product of a double layer of misremembering -- or of the same false memory twice -- then all I can say is "Ever been stung by a dead bee?" (or if you prefer, "Was you ever bit by a dead bee?"). In that case I'd advise Chet to steer clear of oracles, fortunetellers, and magic 8-balls for a few weeks...

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    5. Playing this game was the product of a random selection, but matt's callback was pretty funny. I had forgotten about that.

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    6. Tower of Doom is no CRPG but it was an epically great arcade beat em up done by capcom I think

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    7. The arcade games Tower of Doom and its sequel, Shadows over Mystara are definitely RPG-adjacent. However, their character leveling is not dependent on how much XP you earn, but simply on which of the (linear) stages you're in. So I guess that doesn't count.
      They're still really worth a shot if you're into Dungeons&Dragons and action games.

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    8. I definitely playing Phantasy Star as a kid (high school) on my Sega Master System with graph paper and mapping out the dungeons, that game was not dumbed-down from the Apple //e blobbers I played at the same time.

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  10. We had this as a kid, and my brother and I played it together. Letting your dumb kid brother (me) hit a button was a good way to keep him from whining about sharing the Nintendo. Once we even played it with our cousins who had one of the 4-player dongles.

    It's not a good game, but the art isn't that much worse than Bard's Tale, really. (Also, the green guy looks like a goblin to me.)

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  11. I remember trying this when I was growing up, pretty sure the co-op play was what got my brother and I to give it a go. I was just a console player at the time so didn't have CRPGs to compare it to but still remember finding it kind of simplistic and boring and without the cool story that the JRPGs I liked at the time had.

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  12. In all the years I've been reading this blog, this is the first reference to Aretha Franklin that comes to mind.

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    1. I love Aretha Franklin, but I fear any reference was unintentional unless I've somehow already forgotten about it.

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    2. "Who's Zoomin' Who?" was a 1985 album and single by Aretha, so referred directly in the game.

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    3. Ah. I did not know that song or album. That's a bit of slang that didn't really last long.

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  13. People asking you to play this were probably basing it off of nostalgia.

    It's not a bad game, but not a great game either. It's either a game you remember having fun with as a kid, or remember as a game that you could beat, not being incredibly difficult.

    I don't remember much about it, only having played it at a friend's house, but I don't remember there being anything special or unique about it. It's fairly generic.

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  14. I owned and played this game on NES. I was maybe 11 years old and did enjoy playing it with friends - even though I found it mega hard as a child. I never did quite finish it, though I think made it to the final boss before being smashed by it.

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  15. Between "not that kind of serpent" and "who's zoomin' who?" we're full of innuendo today, aren't we?

    I'd call that skeletal thing a "ghoul" or "wraith", though it's totally possible that the game gets economical about it and makes it a lich on a lower floor.

    Finally, it's a crime that if the game can keep your 4 players, automap, and position in memory as you're playing, that it immediately deletes them on getting a game over and asks you to key in passwords instead of asking, you know, "resume this game at the last temple you visited?"

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  16. I loved this game back in the day, and I still enjoy playing it every once in a while today. Quality of life improvements like save states really help this game. My buddy and I growing up challenged each other to beat the game, and we also used the co-op feature for poops-and-giggles. While I had a PC with Cool Ice, Papers by ORC++ and hacked the crap out of games, this was the first that really introduced me to CRC checks. I think 21 was the highest I could give characters. Anyway, fun times.

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  17. I played this a few years ago on an emulator and really liked it. It's no crpg by any means, whatever the criterias of admissions are. But it felt like a guilty pleasure to uncover the map and mindlessly kill some ennemies.
    I know you give no s**t about console games but back then this kind of graphics was a rarity. Big animated sprites pushes the limited nes hardware to its knees. You can clearly see the limitations with the map not being saved past a certain point. Kudos for trying something different with combats, even if results are questionnable.
    Good old blobber enjoyable for what it is

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    1. "I know you give no s**t about console games." That really isn't true. I just had to establish boundaries for my blog. I play (modern) console games all the time, and when I've dipped into the occasional console game for this blog, I think I've given it a fair shake.

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  18. "I asked ChatGPT" -- be careful, you don't want to have to regularly update your AI disclaimer! The results are rarely worth it.

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    1. "I never use AI except to mock it."

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    2. And only on games with 'Serpent' in the title!

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    3. I'm guessing that "buoy-t" must have originally been some random punchline involving a lighthouse and Godzilla or something...

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    4. I think a boat floats (of course so does a body) and I would pronounce bouy like "BOO-ey", so like a BOO-eet for boat?

      Honestly "bouy" by itself would be better?

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    5. s/body/bouy

      but bodies also float, somewhat tangentially

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    6. There's a town near here named "Bowie", but it's pronounced "Buoy". You can tell whether local newscasters are actually from the area originally. (Though this gives non-locals less trouble than Worcester, the county where the state's biggest resort town is.)

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  19. Reminds me of Sweet Home, another NES RPG with well-made monster sprites that mostly stands out from the crowd not through good game design, but through a few oddities that make it stand out from the rest.

    As to maps on console games, I think most didn't, and if they needed it they probably just bought a guide or a magazine that had info on it. Phantasy Star II had some very confusing dungeons, but back when I was a lad it never occurred to me to map it out. (Mind you, it didn't period until a few years ago) Oddly, the only game I know of that people suggest mapping out is the original Metroid, because that game was crappy at making you travel across mazes. That one's annoying because you're playing an action game, which generally isn't a genre one associates with mapping out.

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    1. The Swords and Serpents manual tells you to draw maps, and it was definitely not uncommon even for other console RPGs. My brother drew maps in notebooks, and I knew other kids who did as well. (I was more likely to draw my own made-up Mario levels.) But yes, strategy guides (and Nintendo Power) were popular for this exact reason.

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    2. Phantasy Star II came with a guide that included maps of all the dungeons. So there was no reason to draw your own maps... unless you really liked drawing maps, or lost the guide somehow.

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    3. What's wrong with Sweet Home? Never played it myself, but was always curious, given that horror RPGs aren't exactly dime a dozen.

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    4. Sweet Home isn't bad, but the actual RPG elements are very limited, on the weaker end for a Famicom game. The RPG elements are really just the leverage to make the survival gameplay work.

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    5. I've never owned the game this entry is about and I just had the cartridge for Phantasy Star II, so I didn't know about that.

      Sweet Home felt like a game that didn't quite know what it wanted to do. It didn't really play like a survival horror game since most of the fights were typical JRPG overfield stuff, with not enough wandering enemies, and the rest feeling like a spooky sheen over a somewhat mundane game under. The RPG part, meanwhile, suffers because of the game's unique party control design, so you're constantly doing busywork, moving around multiple parties because of combat, an incredibly high monster spawn rate, and the limited item space felt less like a tense feature and more like busywork. (Not like Resident Evil where it works if you don't load yourself down with weapons) The permadeath bit also wasn't really that tricky since it's not that difficult to avoid damage. (Saying this as someone who doesn't play many JRPGs in general)

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    6. In a very Wizardry-like way, if you use external maps for Phantasy Star 2 you won't get the experience required to survive later. You need some grind in you.
      I do enjoy that game, but it's up there amongst harder games inho

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  20. I played this over the summer for my classic video reviews. I enjoyed it more than NES Wizardry, but I quit around dungeon level 8 because I felt I had seen all the game was going to offer me and didn't want to drop another 7+ hours on it. I mapped it, as well, and enjoyed doing that.

    I remembered liking the combat. It felt to me like attacking up reduced hit chance, but increased critical chance. I remember pressing up just about anytime my thief attacked because of his already increased critical chance.

    I went with two magicians and thought how much of a pain it would have been to only have one. I wish you greater luck than I had.

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    1. There is a tip that attacking Zombies in the head is more effective, so it could be a trial and error thing on finding out what works best on each enemy type.

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    2. Could you clarify "there is?" Some where in the game or materials, or on a spoiler site?

      I'll do my best, but the game doesn't give you a lot of feedback, just status bars that deplete fairly quickly, as far as I can tell, from all successful attacks. Maybe it will become important later with tougher enemies that last longer.

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    3. @CRPG Addict, from the game manual, page 22:

      " It is more difficult to hit a monster's head, but it will do more damage if successful. Some monsters have different vulnerabilities, so it may be easier to hit one area rather than another. Experiment!"

      https://www.gamesdatabase.org/media/system/nintendo_nes/manual/formated/swords_and_serpents_-_1990_-_acclaim_entertainment.pdf

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    4. Yes, I saw that, but that isn't about zombies specifically.

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    5. It's from some comments I read when I looked the game up after reading about it.
      Sorry but don't remember where or if it was an English source.

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    6. So it was a question from me, about if there where more info or just trial and error, to someone with actual experience of the game.

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  21. There are a lot of good console RPGs over the years but they don't tend to be of the time Chet likes. My favorite are all pretty much JRPGs which don't really deliver what he likes out of games. I honestly can't remember a good 'CRPG'like from those days, just some very dumbed down Ultima games or something.

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    1. Ultima III and IV for the NES weren't that badly dumbed down. A lot of the changes were lateral moves in terms of complexity. The NES port of Might & Magic was also pretty good, if I recall correctly. Some of the Wizardry games got good ports as well. In the next generation, Shining In The Darkness is a fairly credible dungeon crawler.

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    2. I believe the NES Wizardry port is an exact port of the computer game -- even down to the permanent party death. And since the NES game has no way to get around this (such as opening the drive door or making backup scenario disks) it's considerably harder than the PC version unless you are playing on an emulator where you can use save states.

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    3. Not to mention that the NES version of Wizardry had some weird bug where armor class basically didn't work. I've thought about revisiting the first Wizardry game with that version specifically, but it's that particular issue that keeps me from wanting to do so...

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    4. @Elkovski, there is a fan-made bug fix that addresses the armour problem:
      https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1677/
      Now you can enjoy Wizardry 1 on the NES ! :-)

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    5. Except they changed the dungeon layouts starting with level 3 or 4 for whatever reason's they had.

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    6. Yes, the NES version of Wizardry 1 has different floor layouts. The armour bug-fix did not change them (its size is less than 1 kB).

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  22. I'm guessing the floating skeleton is a banshee. It doesn't look much like a banshee from Ireland, but it's not untypical of one from early CRPGs, and it could be argued to have a slightly feminine look.

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  23. Just wanted to drop by to tell you that the Leonard Cohen reference made my day, thank you!

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  24. Perhaps a better (bad) joke question for the answer 'buoy-t' could be 'What does a ghost use to catch fish?'

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  25. It looks like some of the people involved with this game also have credits on a lot of crpg's, so it could be an explanation on why some commenters deemed it important

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  26. Mazes and Monsters … sorry, I mean, Swords and Serpents… is a HELL of a game.

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  27. This was a staple for preteen sleepovers, so I'm definitely bringing a bit of nostalgia with me but even at the time I don't remember enjoying it single player (or even as a duo). There was a social experience here that no computer game we'd played at the time had; computer games with four players were hotseat affairs with a lot of waiting you turn, and watching others play was usually cheating. Probably not the best analogy but playing Swords and Serpents single player is like playing Rock Band solo with the guitar, it's just going to feel like a retread of Guitar Hero with the option of playing bass pointless. The password system was almost genius, letting us swap our own characters in and out so you werent stuck playing a generic character or someone else's. We didn't care when this led to parties like three thieves and a mage.

    Plus, as others have mentioned, computers at this time were family machines in the living room/office, not in whatever basement or bedroom where a bunch of kids were locked away all night to be loud and annoying with popcorn and Dr. Pepper. *Everyone* had an NES and all you needed was one person in the group to have the game and another to have the multitap. Or, as mentioned above, you could play two player with siblings and share Nintendo time.

    In short: unfortunately you're not going to experience a core aspect of the meta-gameplay in this one, it understandably and expectedly suffers for it.

    I think most of the important stuff has already been covered, I definitely remember some strategy to using high/low attacks; this would be the kind of thing one friend would know and excitedly tell everyone else when to do, the kind of Nintendo knowledge shared at school.

    I don't remember mapping this one, despite having learned that skill on Bard's Tale years earlier. Usually one or two friends knew the dungeons by memory, or at least well enough, and they were the party lead.

    Many if not most of those playing this contemporaneously hadn't been exposed to the by then long history of this style of CRPG, so the dungeons falling back on simple tropes isn't only expected it's almost necessary. If this was the first time you saw these dungeon designs some would feel novel. I don't remember if the later levels get more interesting, we definitely never finished the game.

    Does ChatGPT think "buoy" is pronounced "boo-why"? So "buoy-t" sounds like "boo-whight", in which case might even have a second subtler joke? I hate to give it that much credit.

    It's interesting to see this one through your lens, Chet; I don't think anyone who looks back on this one with ruby-colored glasses can take umbrage if you rightfully don't find much to this one.

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