| The map of my winning game. Each time you play, the map is randomly configured. I like to think that "Sorbozon" is a prestigious French clown college. |
Sunday, March 6, 2022
Game 447: Forest of Long Shadows (1986)
37 comments:
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Well... hey, I mean, it got your win ratio up, at least?
ReplyDeleteWait until you see the next batch.
Delete"I like to think that "Sorbozon" is a prestigious French clown college." -> Hehe, nice one.
ReplyDeleteI'd expext "Kandos Castle" to be a formative place for burgeoning hackers. And based on the list of its (almost) namesakes recorded on Wikipedia, "Craigmoor Castle" would seem to be a Sports college: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Moore_(disambiguation).
A nice diversion, if nothing else...
ReplyDeleteThis is cute. I feel like I would have sunk a decent amount of time into this as a kid if I found it on one of those sketchy "300 Computer Games!!" CDs.
ReplyDeleteI can't help wondering how long it would take Twitch to win this game :D
ReplyDeleteRandom map, NPCs, monsters, equipment, stats, wasn't unwinnable, didn't crash, pretty good for three and a half pages of typed in BASIC code.
ReplyDeleteIf you're playing as a single character, it's hard to lose.
How does multiplayer work? I can't imagine everyone plays at the same time, ala M.U.L.E. Multiplayer solitaire, try for high score?
Sounds like everyone takes turns, like with a board game. As implied by the 'bad weather, you lose a turn' function.
DeleteIt just takes turns, and the first one to visit all four castles and return wins.
DeleteThat probably means that in multiplayer, you couldn't just spam "greet" since it'd take multiple turns?
DeleteI typed in many long BASIC program listings in my day, and none of them were half as good as this game appears to be.
DeleteI can't help but wonder if this game is a modified implementation of the board game Mystic Wood. It was released in the early 1980s, used a randomized tile map of roughly the same size, seems to have similar mechanics, and even referred to the encounters as "denizens" (a word I had to look up, reading the rules as a kid). The programmer here has clearly added his own elements, but there are enough similarities I feel compelled to comment for the first time hoping to add something useful to the discussion.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad you did! I looked over a description and screenshots of Mystic Wood, and I agree that there are a lot of similarities. In fact, the nature of the randomization of the map in Forest makes a lot more sense if you regard a board game like Wood as its source; otherwise, why would there be all these paths going to nowhere? Unfortunately, I didn't see any conclusive evidence, like the same proper names for the locations. It actually appears that the board game was more complex in its various encounters and quests, too.
DeleteThere also seems to be some similarities to the board game "Magic Realm" in terms of map randomization. If I remember (from almost 40 years ago), your objective in that one was to find several artifacts instead of locations.
DeleteOh boy Magic Realm! I never played this when I had the board game, but I got into a computer-playable version called RealmSpeak about fifteen years ago and it's amazing. Once you grok the rules it's very deep, and having the computer do the setup for you is very helpful.
DeleteAnyway the map randomization in that game consists of assembling a bunch of preset hex tiles so the paths can go together, which can make a big impact on the gameplay (sometimes you can explore widely, sometimes you wind up having to take narrow paths over tortuous terrain).
Characters can set their own victory conditions in the game, which can be some combination of artifacts, gold, spells learned, and points from defeating monsters. The original rules (probably what you're remembering after 40 years!) were structured in a series of "encounters" gradually introducing more rules; in the first "encounter" which didn't have monsters or combat, maybe the objectives were to find treasures or treasure locations? I might have the rules in my attic so I could go check.
(The encounter structure made the rules even more confusing than they needed to be, and the second edition rules dropped it completely.)
Magic Realm randomized the map by having you assemble it out of preset hexes so paths joined. The differences in the map could make a big difference in gameplay; you might be able to explore relatively freely or be stuck on a single path with treacherous terrain and secret passages.
DeleteIn the full game, you could set your own victory conditions, which could include finding special treasures, and also spells, gold, and points scored in combat. The first edition introduced the rules gradually in a series of "encounters"; in the first couple before combat and monsters were introduced, the goal was to visit locations. Introducing the rules this way proved to be even more confusing, and the second edition dropped the encounters.
(This comment was originally a lot more fanboyish but blogger/Google/Firefox/Safari ate it. Anyway there's a computer-playable version called RealmSpeak which automates the endless setup and is easy to play solitaire and allows for internet play too, I highly recommend it! Though I haven't played in a few years because I don't have Java installed on my computer.)
Magic Realm was king of the 70s boardgame RPGs. It's truly a masterpiece, a complete world in a box, that lives and breathes as you play it. It has monsters, NPCs factions, reactions that determine if the NPCs attack you, trade with you, or ally with you, weather, a ton of characters who play completely differently, equipment, treasures, a board built by the players out of a hex tileset 15 years before Settlers of Catan, and the kitchen sink.
DeleteIt also had the worst rulebook ever written, with legions of players banging their heads against it trying to understand how to play this baroque glockenspiel. Evidently the designer wrote it to himself as a kind of shorthand just to remember the rules. Decades later players made rewritten rulebooks and video tutorials that actually make the game playable.
I don't see much of Magic Realm here but the resemblance to Mystic Wood (sometimes called Magic Realm Lite) is clear, once it was pointed out. Here's a review with description and a shorter review with photos. Reviewer's conclusion: as basic as an adventure game can be. No wonder it could be implemented in three and a half pages of BASIC. How many KLOCs are we talking about here, anyway?
Sorry, Matt. Blogger didn't "eat" the comment; I had moderation turned on for all comments because I keep getting spam in Arabic. Sounds like Magic Realm could plausibly be a source, then.
DeleteSorry, Chet! There was some Blogger/browser weirdness; my initial browser glitched out on displaying something after I posted, so I didn't see what presumably was the message that told me I was in moderation. I hope you didn't have to nuke ten versions of my post! ("matt w" is also me of course.)
DeleteHarland, yes, there's a reason I never really played Magic Realm when I had it in the box, and then came back to it in the '00s with Realmspeak and the rewritten rules! It's just so good once you break through and understand the rules. I remember the thrill of figuring out what the Elusive Cloak was good for.
For what it's worth, Magic Realm also called its monsters and NPCs "denizens," but I agree with Harland that Forest of Long Shadows looks much more like Mystic Wood.
DeleteGoblin Mountain is currently on the master game list after Golvellius, so not in alphabetical order.
ReplyDeleteIf you are planning to include ZX Spectrum games you had to type in yourself, there are entire books with games that can be considered RPGs. I know because I owned several.
ReplyDeleteNot if I have to type them in.
DeleteI agree with this policy completely. Too much work typing and then finding the typos with too little payoff.
DeleteMaybe I missed it early, but what happened with your upcomming-list?
ReplyDeleteHe wrote that he's planning something new and mysterious. We're all holding our breath...!
DeleteIt's not anything exciting. I just don't know for sure about how I want to draw from the master list anymore. I'm weighing some possibilities. In the meantime, there will still be "upcoming" games; I just don't want to commit to a specific list.
DeleteAs long as you're rearranging the sidebar, please check the blogroll, a couple are dead.
DeleteI could be missing something (or the Addict may already have updated since your post) don't see any dead sites in the sidebar, just three links that need review. Kurisu's two sites have consolidated into one. I think RPG Consoler will come back someday, though it's been on hiatus for ages.
DeleteAh, I guess there's "CRPG Revisiting old classics" too, which hasn't been updated in close to two years. Sometimes those sites come back unexpectedly, and I hope Saintus does so.
DeleteI fixed Kurisu's link but beyond that...I haven't set a hard deadline, but I'm reluctant to remove a good blog just because it hasn't been updated for a while. The past articles are still relevant to my own blog.
DeleteI agree. Since as far as I remember all of these deal with reviews of "old" games and not current ones, even those (presently) not updated anymore can yield interesting reads for people searching for related subjects covered by them. After checking them all a couple of times, I now know in which ones to look for new posts.
DeleteFor what it's worth I appreciate having those inactive sites stay in the blogroll. If nothing else, every so often I'll say to myself "Where was it that I read...?", and you can imagine the rest.
DeleteI agree -- even if Zenic never updates again, there are still 60 or so reviews there of early console RPGs.
Delete(I've been thinking of making a chronogaming discord for anyone interested in the idea, or maybe people who want to do a project but not make a full blog/twitch, just discuss it with others.)
I wrote that game back in the day. Yes, the game was influenced by Magic Realm, Sorcerer's Cave and Mystic Wood. I'm about to release a follow-up called Return to Long Shadows. I think you'll like it. I'll probably put it on itch.io for a couple of quid.
DeleteThanks for stopping by, Martin! Feel free to let us know when the sequel is released.
DeleteMartin Page released Return to Long Shadows in 2023. Two versions are available here:
Deletehttps://martin-page.itch.io/