 |
| Clear "Game of the Year" for 1994. |
Ravenloft is in active rotation, so it's time for another look at what's coming up. My sense is that this list is going to be relatively quick, but I've been fooled before.
As a reminder, this discussion is to offer:
- Opinions about the game's RPG status. While applying your own definitions to such a discussion is fine, what really helps is if you apply mine. The FAQ (7th question) covers my definition.
- Tips for emulating the game
- Known bugs and pitfalls
- Tips for character creation
- Trivia
- Predictions for my reaction and/or the GIMLET score (without specifics that will spoil the game).
- Sources of information about the game from around the web, particularly obscure ones that I might otherwise miss during my pre-game research.
These are the next eight titles:
- Rogue II: Return to the Dungeon (1986 | Atari ST | Epyx). This game is alone a good argument for expanding my list of sources beyond Wikipedia and MobyGames. I only found it on AtariMania, and it's an official sequel to the Epyx release of Rogue! We should have learned about it years ago. It appears to be a roguelike with a graphical interface. I look forward to seeing what it keeps and ditches from its predecessor. LanHawk has already assisted me with getting a clean copy, sans the obnoxious "cracktro" nonsense. [Ed. I guess it's not a good argument for expanding my list. Rogue II appears to be a hack or mod of the original game and not a separate Epyx release.]
- Jiji and the Mysterious Forest, Chapter 1 (1994 | Windows | Independent). This game is technically a sequel to Jiji's Osakanakuzushi ("Jiji's Fish Crush"), but MobyGames classifies it as an action game. This is an independent children's game series from a Japanese developer, but in English, in which Jiji the cat romps around the Land of Fish. There was some discussion as to whether it's a real RPG in my "1993/1994" post. I don't expect it to be long or interesting, but you never know. If I really love it, Chapter 2 came out the same year.
- The Bard's Tale II: The Destiny Knight (1986 | Commodore 64 | Interplay): It's time I rectified a 16-year-old crime that I committed against this game. I decided to do it now because Michael Cranford has announced a new game (a sequel to Maze Master) and I wanted an excuse to talk about it.
- Aethra Chronicles: Volume One - Celystra's Bane (1994 | DOS | Independent). A shareware game, but it looks nice: detailed character creation, three characters, full inventories, tactical combat, NPC dialogue. Of all the games on this list, I think I'm looking forward to this one the most.
 |
| The Aethra chronicles looks like a well-designed shareware game. |
- Graal (1986 | Thomson | Free Game Blot): This is a French game about which I've done virtually no research. The Wargaming Scribe posted a comment suggesting that it's more of a puzzle game than an RPG.
- Hexx: Heresy of the Wizard (1994 | DOS | TAG). A Dungeon Master-inspired game with continuous movement set in the Trazere universe. I've seen it described as a remake of Bloodwych (1989), but I think it's better described as a game in a similar style. Of the titles on this list, this one has the potential to last the longest.
As always, your comments, assistance, and predictions are welcome.
08/30/2026
Aethra Chronicles can be hard to get to run. It won't work with vanilla DOSBox. You need to use a SVN build, and use opengl as Ouput. It's possible it works with DOSBox Staging, though (I haven't tried).
ReplyDeleteA Human Paladin is the best choice if you want to role-play. An Ashikari is probably best if power gaming. A Dwarf secondary will be useful.
Near the end you need two keys from an Earth Spirit and a Water Spirit. The game bugged out on me if I did Earth first, but reloading and doing Water first worked.
Can you elaborate on "won't work?" I got it loaded, watched the intro, and started a bit of the gameplay. Where does it fail?
DeleteChecking my notes more carefully, I see that it was only the scaling that was the problem.
DeleteJiji Osakanakuzushi is a Break-Out / Arkanoid style game.
ReplyDeleteThe three Jiji Mysterious Forest games do have RPG-styled combat but don't appear to have character development. But frankly it's such a silly-looking series that I'd love to read your BRIEF on it.
Also, here's a tool-assisted speedrun of Jiji that completes it in 30 seconds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPRrkPNie70
Was Jiji lifted from Kiki's Delivery Service, by any chance?
Delete@RG: That was/is my guess, too. I mean, how many somewhat similarly looking black cats called Jiji are there? Maybe the author was a fan of the Miyazaki anime, which came out a couple years earlier, or at least that figure.
DeleteI feel like this is where someone who actually knows Japanese will tell us that despite a superficial similarity in their romanized versions, "Jiji" and "Kiki" have nothing in common in their original language.
Delete@Addict, Jiji is Kiki's black cat.
DeleteAh, that changes things. I also missed Busca's response, which would have clarified it. Yes, then in that case, it seems almost impossible that there isn't a relation, unless "Jiji" is an ultra-common cat name in Japan.
DeleteI think the world of Kiki's Delivery Service would have made a great kid-friendly CRPG (though somehow from the cat's perspective?), so I'm a little disappointed that we won't be seeing it. Does make me want to re-watch the movie, so that's not a bad thing!
DeleteI cannot definitively answer with a sample size of one. But living in Japan with a Japanese partner, their former cat was named Jiji too after this anime.
DeleteOf these I only know Hexx, a frankly ugly game that is basically Bloodwych with 3D movement (it repeats riddles and so on). So at least it deserves a look, a quick entry, and your opinion of "ok I've played it, it sucks".
ReplyDeleteThe developers themselves call Hexx a "reimagining" of Bloodwych: https://pocketmags.com/pt/retro-gamer-magazine/issue-258/articles/the-making-of-alpha-storm
ReplyDeleteFrom what I gather, it's not a 1-to-1 copy, but a lot of mechanics (classes, attributes, spells) and even most maps are the same.
Jiji has no character development, no attributes, and barely any inventory. If you want to play something borderline, you'd be better off with Little Big Advenute, as Narwahl suggested, which is essentially a European response to Zelda.
Aethera Chronicles is one of shareware classics (alongside Yendorian Tales, Realmz and Exile), a very solid Goldbox-style RPG. Unfortunately, as far as I know, there was never a vol. 2.
Why do you imagine MobyGames saw Jiji as an RPG?
DeleteNever mind. I think Radiant answered it above.
DeleteIt does superficially look like one - relatively free top-down exploration, NPCs, quests, turn-based combat. Just check it online on archive.org, it won't take you more than 2 minutes to see that it's not and RPG.
DeleteIt's still surprising Jiji is listed under "RPG" genre. Mobygames' definition also sees character development as main element, even though, a difference to your current criteria, they include "collecting armament and/or utilities of gradually increasing power" as such.
DeleteThe mobygames description says "It features simple Dragon Quest-style combat", but even that is quite a stretch. As far as I can see, there are just two types of (physical) attack (besides eating something or trying to run away).
Prediction: Jiji will be the occasion for some homicidal comments about the music.
ReplyDeleteI would second that, but I'm pretty sure he'll turn it off ASAP (I did) - under 'system' you can have background music ('BGM') (un)checked separately from the sound ('WAV' files).
DeleteMal posso acreditar que finalmente Mordor: Depths of Dejenol está chegando (1995)! Saudações dos seus leitores do Brasil.
ReplyDeleteContenha sua equipe de cavalos, meu amigo brasileiro. Pode muito bem levar um ano até que eu chegue a um jogo de 1995. Mas obrigado por ler!
Delete"Contenha sua equipe de cavalos"
DeleteI will be tickled pink if this is a real idiom in Portuguese.
Não é uma expressão utilizada e não faz muito sentido, provavelmente uma tradução automática para "take it easy"? Aprecio, contudo, a iniciativa do Addict por falar em português! Nós te amamos, Addict!
DeleteHeresy! Cracktros are awesome.
ReplyDeleteI recognize that the teams sometimes did a significant service to later players in the "abandonware" era by cracking certain games. But for every one of those, there's someone who did nothing more than run Mirror Disk on the original copy and insert their own nonsense.
DeleteI was (jokingly) referring more to the artistic aspect than the historical preservation one. Cracktros were the birthplace of the Demoscene, which is very dear to my heart.
DeleteThis. I appreciate your opinions Addict, but cracktros are not "nonsense". They are beginning of an artform.
DeleteThere is a weird sort of art to them. They inspired a sub coding culture called the "demo scene" because the goal was to make these cool cracktros etc in the 16kb or smaller of available space, and how do you do that.
DeleteI don't like them in the games, but the art and competition to make crazy impressive stuff in tiny space survived the medium that created them.
Even to the extent that I could be persuaded, LL, I would say that cracktros ought to be limited to games that were actually "cracked"--i.e., there was some kind of copy protection or manual-based password or something. Simply copying a game is not "cracking" it and thus does not warrant a "cracktro" screen.
DeleteJust a thumb up for involving and caring for the community.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the heads-up about Shadow Snare (the new Michael Cranford game). The gameplay video on his website isn't a lot to go by, but I like the feel of it, and the narrative descriptions in combat are a nice touch (reminding me of the narrative notes I keep on my weekly group's Pathfinder campaigns), though I imagine they might make combat drag a bit in the long run.
ReplyDeleteI've just re-read the old entry, and it was crazy to see that the comments range from 2010 to 2025. I didn't realize how many newcomers discover the blog on a weekly (daily?) basis, but good for them.
ReplyDeleteI try to respond to encourage them, but sometimes several days go by where I can't really engage, and then I have hundreds of emails to catch up on. I really encourage my regular readers to watch the "Recent Comments" list and give some boosts to readers who comment on older entries.
DeleteI didn't even realize this existed... I guess I stop paying attention to the sidebar by the time I get this far into an article.
DeleteAnd people act like Deltarune invented episodic RPGs...
ReplyDeleteGraal (1986): As you mention, it is not an RPG; I would describe it as an educational game for high-schoolers or earlier made by a couple of teachers (iirc) who very obviously played Ultima IV. It is mostly a collection of mini-games (mostly puzzles) in a RPG trenchcoat.
ReplyDeleteWhile not a RPG, you may like it: first as an educator, but also of course because large chunks an Ultima IV pastiche in which you must increase chevalric virtues like Bonté and Courtoisie and finally because it is Graal-themed.
I think it would make a great BRIEF, but you probably don't have to deep-dive.
There is a video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJA8amWKgeo . It seems that the manual is MIA. I wrote on its publisher Free Game Blot here: https://zeitgame.net/archives/18842 [after the let's play of a horrible horrible game] and on the TO/MO computers in the article just before.
If you play it, I would love to know whether you pass the tainted glass puzzle without brute-forcing it.
According to contemporary reviews and the game's inlay text, at least the disc version of Graal came with extra material about the (historical and mythical) Middle Ages in the form of both a booklet and an audio cassette (which apparently helped with some questions/puzzles), but as Scribe mentions, those seem to not have been preserved online.
DeleteNevertheless, based on the video as well as the general description of the inlay and in-game, the language element rather than understanding gameplay mechanics might turn out to be the (relatively) more time-consuming element.
Is Rogue II really an official release? The Atarimania page lists it as a hack.
ReplyDeleteAh. Missed that. I guess we'll find out soon enough.
DeleteYeah, not an official release, thus not on Mobygames.
DeleteI've never seen it mentioned in any roguelike forum, so there's little chance of it being of much significance.
DeleteIf it's from 1986, then it's potentially one of the earliest examples of somebody hacking a game to add extra content to it. Nowadays romhacking is plentiful but it had to start somewhere.
DeleteIt's mostly found on compilations of Atari games. On The roguelike archive, it's listed under the variants/ports of the original (v1.xx) game, same as the official Atari port released by Epyx.
DeleteNot sure what they changed besides the title page (and whether it's worth diving deeper to establish that or the date), but indeed seems to be a hack of the Atari port.
@Radiant
DeleteThere are many earlier (starting in the late 70s) examples of arcade game bootlegs modding the original game. Galaxians Turbo or New Puck-X, for instance.
Sure, modding is older than that. However, many mods are just visual changes and/or adding inside jokes. Modding to add so many extra monsters, spells and/or items to call a game "Rogue 2"? I'm honestly not sure how much of a precedent that has before '86.
DeleteAlthough to be fair, I haven't played Rogue 2, so I call it only _potentially_ an example of that.
@Radiant: check out Madhouse on my blog sometime, a German took the base of Deathmaze and hacked it into a brand-new game
Deletethen there's of course a bunch of mods of Adventure including Crystal Cave which turns it into a brand new game, but that's straight from source code rather than hacking a published game in machine code
So Madhouse is from 1983, that's pretty cool. I also just learned that the first "construction kit" game is from 1982 (so says Wikipedia); and the first level editor appears to be the 1983 Dandy (an Atari game named after D&D).
DeleteAnd @Chet, since you have the Index By Lineage now, Dandy possibly belongs in one of those.
Wow, Bard's Tale II. I still haven't beaten it, so I only have two pieces of advice, both of which are about initial party creation:
ReplyDeleteBT1 reserved the "special" seventh slot for NPC monsters, either summoned or added to your party in a dungeon. BT2 allows you to fill that slot with a PC, but you shouldn't do it. In certain dungeons, you must add a specific NPC to your party in order to advance. That is a bit of a spoiler, but I started out with a party of seven and it took me a long time to figure out why I was stuck.
You also have the option to import characters from BT1, which (assuming you beat BT1 with that party) likely includes multiple casters that are immediately ready to switch to the new Archmage class. If your party is powerful enough to do this, I'm told the starter dungeon in the first city is completely redundant, so you can save some time by skipping it.
On the other hand, if you're starting with a fresh party, taking seven PCs at first will probably help you survive the brutal grind that is the first few levels. (Even then, that effect is somewhat less brutal in BT2 than it was in BT1.) Just make sure you drop one before you tackle the starter dungeon.
Using an imported party makes the combat far too easy combat wise. I had to restart the game with a fresh party to make it more of a challenge.
Delete> BT2 allows you to fill that slot with a PC, but you shouldn't do it.
DeleteHard disagree. Feel free to use seven PCs, or to create a seventh if you still have your BT1 chars to import. When you need an NPC to advance, it's easy to jaunt back to the Adventurer's Guild and have someone sit that part of the dungeon out.
Naq lbh'er tbvat gb unir qb gung naljnl ng bar cbvag, hayrff lbh'er qbvat n punyyratr eha jvgu sbhe punenpgref be yrff - bar bs gur Fanerf arrqf guerr fybgf bcra sbe acpf.
If the game designer allows you to import characters from a previous installment, then that's fair game for any reviewers. I can think of several other games on this blog where an imported party turned out making things too easy, but balancing a game for both new and imported characters is pretty rare in the 80s/90s.
DeleteI thought the starter dungeon was one of the better parts of the game, to be honest (and I'm pretty sure you're locked out if you're high-level)
DeleteSince I a) imported a party, and b) did not do the starter dungeon last time, I'm inclined to do this game with a new party and at least dip into the starter dungeon.
DeleteI can't remember whether it was BT2 or BT3, but the starter dungeon was enough to level new characters to archmage or equivalent.
DeleteSince this tripped me up for over a year when I first played BT2, leave an inventory slot open on EACH character.
DeleteThe manual suggests leaving slots open, but doesn't say that all your characters will need one.
As a side note, when I finally played BT3, unfortunately the incomplete Dos version, my characters were over level 100 when I transferred them.
Gerry, I'm pretty sure that describes both of them.
DeleteAnd thank you for the advice, Drawde!
DeleteI couldn't beat a couple Snares because of that. So I spent most of my time leveling up my characters and occasionally trying those Snares.
DeleteI beat the game quickly once I learned that trick. Due partially to my severely over-levelled characters. My biggest problem with the levelling was that the DOS version had no overflow protection on the experience. And multiple ways for the monsters to call more into the fight.
I don't know if there were any major problems with the DOS port of 2, but BT3 was playable but seriously incomplete. None of the traps worked, monsters used but had no actual special abilities (like dragon breath), and most items had their use abilities default to lighting a torch.
Alas, there's no AppleIIGS version for BT3, but fortunately there is an Unofficial Patch that fixes all the issues of the DOS version.
DeleteThe Amiga version had the same problem, and I remember being so disgusted by monster not having special attacks that I quit the game, and only returned to it when the UOP was released.
Oh boy, Bard's Tale 2. It's probably better than a lot of the games covered here, but among the RPGs I've played it's close to the bottom. The "monsters" were just random words slammed together. It seriously felt like they were generated by Chat-GPT. None of them were much of a threat for our 25th level party decked out in magic items. But the maze difficulty picked up where the first game left off. Once I reached gur qnex mbar jvgu fcvaaref va vg gung qvfnoyrf lbhe pbzcnff naq fcryyf rneyl va gur frpbaq qhatrba (abg vapyhqvat gur fgnegre qhatrba) I gave up. Vs gur tnzr unq orggre nhqvb/ivfhny srrqonpx guvf zvtug or anivtnoyr, ohg vg qvqa'g. V pbhyqa'g rira gryy juvpu bs zl vachgf jrer ertvfgrevat va gurer.
ReplyDeleteEven the Famicom Bard's Tale 2 (which I played with the help of DeepL Translator and ASchultz's walkthrough) was better than this!
Oh, and if you're thinking of using a freshly-made party:
Gur fgnegre qhatrba vf n tevaqsrfg. Bapr lbh ragre gur guveq yriry bs gur fgnegre qhatrba, lbh arrq n fvkgu-yriry fcryy gb trg bhg (vs lbh qba'g unir vg, gur bayl jnl bhg vf gb qvr). Gur ceboyrz vf, gurer ner ab tbbq tevaqvat bccbheghavgvrf guvf rneyl va gur tnzr, fb ernpuvat gur ryriragu yriry bs rkcrevrapr gnxrf ntrf.
The starter dungeon is a good combat challenge. But if you want a more linear difficulty progression, head for the "real" game once you have completed the first level of the starter dungeon.
DeleteBTW, you really need to like mapping challenges to enjoy BT2.
It's going to be tough to reconcile the varying opinions on this game.
DeleteI know nothing of the Bard's Tale series outside of your postings, but I have read since the beginning. While you had valid reason for bouncing from other RPGs, this one felt like it caught you at a bad spot.
DeleteNow, by all means bounce for a good reason! But I'm also keen to see you tackle a classic game of this ilk again
So you've decided to give Bard's Tale II another chance?
ReplyDeleteI hope your blog posts won't consist entirely of complaints and criticism. If that's the case, you might as well not play it at all.
Well, I’ll make a deal with you: my posts will consist solely of complaints and criticisms if it sucks, and they won’t if it doesn’t. Sound fair?
DeleteElmer Fudd: "That sounds gweat!"
Delete"Hey! Wait a minute, you twickster! You're not a doctor. You're that scwewy Addict!""
That screenshot got me to play through Jiji chapter one (in like 15 minutes) on archive.org and I was very endeared. I'm curious what other super-short rpg-shaped independent games were coming out in the 90s. Jiji feels like a predecessor to many modern freeware browser games, it's a form I have a lot of love for.
ReplyDeleteDefinitely looking forward to the "The Cat-RPG Addict" spinoff.
DeleteI've been waiting lo these many years for another look at The Bard's Tale series on this blog. TBH I had given up, and now my faith has been renewed! I recommend transferring your party from BT1 which seems to have been the intended path for players to take. As a kid I was obsessed with this series, but ended up feeling like I needed the clue book to finish this one. The timed puzzles were too much for me then.
ReplyDeleteMaybe I knew about Rogue II at some point given I was an Atari enthusiast as a kid but like ... yeah it seems like news to me that one of the most famous RPGs ever has a 40-year-old sequel that I have never heard anyone talk about (at least not since 1986???)
ReplyDeleteFrom the discussion above, your skepticism is justified.
DeleteNot looking forward to BT2 tbh. Cranford really rubs me the wrong way; I don't wanna start comment drama but I will say the way he's talked about Rebecca Heineman in the past really soured me on him (and I know you've covered some of the disagreements between them in the past). But even leaving that aside, the Bard's Tale series is by far the least interesting of the classic CRPGs to me. I hope you can get through it quickly.
ReplyDeleteMy revisit of BT1 made me like it more than I remembered. I generally agree with you on BT2 and BT3, but I feel like that opinion ought to be founded on a more solid foundation than I built in 2010.
DeleteUnfortunately, Rebecca Heineman passed away recently, so we can't hear more from her about her recollections. Nevertheless, it would be interesting to hear from Michael Cranford why he insisted - repeatedly - (in his Bard's Tale Post-Mortem at GDC 2018, starting here and until 32:40) that it's not true BT2 was originally going to be called The Archmage's[/Arch Mage's] Tale, as she had claimed.
DeleteThere are about a dozen contemporary reports / news items in magazines and newsletters which appear to indicate otherwise.
The Arch Mage's Tale is given as the tentative title of the BT sequel in the May 1986 Questbusters, the same name shows up in June's Computer Entertainer as well.
Several sources then report the game was announced under said name at the 1986 Summer CES, including Computer Gaming World, Compute & Compute!'s Gazette, Run magazine and again Questbusters.
That title also appeared in Info's August/September 1986 Product Roundup, made it into a German publication as "announced for early autumn" and even as far as Japan.
In its September 1986 issue Computer Entertainer then mentioned "Bard's Tale II: The Destiny Night [sic] (formerly The Arch-Mage's Tale)" and Questbusters' August issue reported "Electronic Arts says the name of the Bard's Tale sequel, formerly The ArchMage's Tale, has been changed to The Destiny Knight."
This former (sub-)title then still shows up as the only one as late as the October 1986 issues of Ahoy! and Compute! and even the December 1986 Compute!'s Gazette.
That's quite a few mentions in different places for a name which, according to Mr Cranford's 2018 GDC statements, was never intended or even discussed. Memory can be a tricky thing, but he was quite adamant about it. Or maybe he did not get the (corresponding initial marketing) memo?
Amazing research as always. This strikes me as pretty definitive. I'll maybe ask Cranford for his take on it eventually, but I owe him my playtester's notes on Shadow Snare before I ask him for anything else.
DeleteAethra Chronicles doesn't work on the DOSBox version with the savestates. At least the older one, DAUM. I haven't tested it on DOSBox-X. It works OK on vanilla DOSBox anyway.
ReplyDeleteOh, and the party size in that game is six. You create three characters and can recruit three more NPCs.
I don't have anything to add to the upcoming games (except for Jiji, which I finished in a few minutes - for an extra challenge, try to play the entire game with the music switched on). But I think by asking for tips for character creation you're opening yourself up for too many spoilers. I'd restrict that to extreme situations like characters which are basically unplayable.
ReplyDeleteI see what you mean, but it's like the seventh time we've done this, and I don't remember too many outright spoilers in the past. If it becomes a problem, I'll remove that bullet from future entries like this.
DeleteHas it been that many already? I thought the character tips were a more recent addition. I don't expect too much in the way of spoilers on this bunch of games, but I thought the discussion on Ravenloft was pretty borderline.
DeleteYes, "tips for character creation" has been in the list of discussion topics since my first "Upcoming Games" entry in March 2025:
Deletehttps://crpgaddict.blogspot.com/2025/03/upcoming-games-warriors-of-legend-1993.html
Character creation could in some older games make or break the game.... So help and don't spoil it.
DeleteI played a bunch of Aethra Chronicles back in the day, don't remember too much about it now though. Was one of those shareware games I kept wanting to find as a full game eventually but never did.
ReplyDeletewhat version of Bard's Tale II are you using? I can on;y seem to locate the GOG version with the updated graphics and the automap.
ReplyDeleteThe superior version is the Apple IIGS version, which can be played using eXoAppleIIGS. Unlike most or all other versions, it's bug free, and it has great audiovisuals.
DeleteI'm inclined to go with PO's suggestion. I had replayed the original game a number of years ago with the intent of continuing those characters, but the overwhelming advice seems to be that a new party makes for a more satisfying game.
DeleteI played through the modern Trilogy version in classic mode since I already played some versions back then as a kid. I think it's the preferrable version for anyone playing it today but probably too far removed from the original experience(s with many ports) for this blog's intent I guess (?). Otherwise what PO said is true, for some reason the Apple IIGS got the superior versions. Only up to part 2 though, the GS port of BT3 got canceled.
DeleteI played Aethra Chronicles during my teens and found it very engrossing, even though I was only allowed to play a shareware version, and it seemed quite difficult to me at the time. I'm looking forward to your thoughts on that game, which I hope I can play through if life doesn't get in the way—I wanted to do the same with Al-Qadim and Arena but just couldn't. Also, I can't wait for the brief on Jiji. It will be fun to read.
ReplyDeleteAs somebody who had a Jiji fan page up on GeoCities, I am very, very excited to see you play the Jiji the Cat series. I hope that you'll enjoy them for what they are, or at least find them to be memorable!
ReplyDelete"The Bard's Tale 2" on C64 can import characters from "Ultima 3".
ReplyDeleteOn the Apple 2, though, all three "Bard's Tale" games can import characters from Ultima 3 and from Wizardry 1/2/3.
Someone wrote a detailed guide on GameFAQs, under "Ultima 3"...
I'm actually surprised that the many D&D computer games don't allow character transferring to one another. Especially since so many were from SSI.
DeleteFor my part, I was surprised to see that Ultima 3 characters can be transferred (on APL2 and C64) to Bard's Tale 1-2-3, Deathlord, and Centauri Alliance, but NOT to another Ultima game.
DeleteBy the way, I forgot to include the link:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/atari8bit/931110-ultima-iii-exodus/faqs/82214
Importing characters into Bard's Tale 1-2-3 is only good for a speed run (overpowered), but importing "all-18's" characters to Deathlord is just fair counterbalance to that game unfair permadeath.
"I'm actually surprised that the many D&D computer games don't allow character transferring to one another. Especially since so many were from SSI."
DeleteMust be why so many had that handy feature of letting you enter in all your stats, so you could "recreate" the character from another game!
How many examples do we have of games not allowing this kind of transfer within the same campaign setting? You can't go from any of the Gold Box games to Eye of the Beholder and back, of course. That's really it, though, isn't it?
DeleteCan't transfer from Pool of Radiance to Pool of Radiance II SMDH.
DeleteYou can go from PoR to Hillsfar, which is a totally different kind of game, though, and then from Hillsfar back to Secret of the Silver Blades, IIRC. That's probably the most oddball example I can think of.
In modern games I feel like it's fallen out of favor -- Pillars of Eternity to Pillars of Eternity 2 feels like the only semi-recent example that pops into my head. Though usually it's because even direct sequels aren't meant to involve the same party in the same timeline (Original Sin 1 to 2, Fallout 3 to 4, etc.)
Good question; let me check that.
DeleteAl-Qadim is part of the Forgotten Realms, as is the 1994 Menzoberranzan; so those games should logically let you import from the Pool of Radiance and Savage Frontier series. Heroes of the Lance, Shadow Sorcerer, and War of the Lance are all set on Krynn, so they should connect to the Champions of Krynn series.
Both of those settings connect to Spelljammer, and you can travel from any of these to Ravenloft (but not back) and to Planescape (although that is not by SSI). So a lot of untapped potential there; it would be fitting in these three settings to start with a character stranded from another campaign world.
Hillsfar is also in the Forgotten Realms, and I just learned that it DOES allow importing from the Gold Box games. Bonus points for that.
Finally, SSI has a lot of games in a unique or unspecified world that is not any of the above, such as Deathkeep, Shard of Spring, and Wizard's Crown. Still, every D&D world canonically connects to Ravenloft; so Strahd's Possession should have allowed you to import from every earlier SSI game. Yeah :D
Note that it's entirely possible that the main character from Planescape: Torment is, in fact your favorite character imported from whichever D&D setting you care to name, including TRPGs. PS:T is awesome like that.
DeleteBeing able to import into Ravenloft from (almost) any of the other games would have been a fun feature!
DeleteYou didn’t mention Dark Sun, but it’s supposed to be cut off from both planar and spelljamming travel so it’s appropriately self-contained.
On the Dragonlance side, the gold box games are set well after the silver box ones (Heroes of the Lance, Dragons of Flame, and Shadow Sorcerer) and the latter don’t even let you create your own characters since you play the canonical heroes of the lance; some of them show up in the gold box games, actually. So that one is all good, too.
The Spelljammer game is actually set specifically in Realmspace, so in theory you should have been able to import a PoR or EoB character as captain!
Dark Sun is not immune to the Mist of Ravenloft. The Dark Sun lore book describes the ruins of Kalidnay, an ancient major cities whose inhabitants disappeared suddenly decades (or centuries?) ago.
DeleteWell, it turns out that it was captured by the Mist, and so Kalidnay is part of the Ravenloft universe:
https://archive.org/details/tsr02139mc15monstrouscompendiumravenloftii/page/n51/mode/2up
Well, I read more about Kalidnay and it does have a lot of meta-lore for a place that originally had 5 lines of lore, with a storyline that kept being changed due to changes on both the Dark Sun and Ravenloft "loreset", to licencing issues (White Wolf held the right of Ravenloft, but not Dark Sun), and possibly to writers of Dark Sun not familiar with the Ravenloft lore (or the opposite). Fun
Deletehttps://darksun.fandom.com/wiki/Kalidnay
You can't get to Dark Sun via Spelljammer because it effectively has an Ur-Quan Slave Shield.
DeleteYou _can_ get there via planar travel (available to 9th-level clerics) but it's particularly dangerous. And there are a few hard-to-reach portals into Dark Sun (e.g. Baba Yaga of all people has one). So traveling between Dark Sun and the Forgotten Realms is possible, just highly unlikely.
Planar travel between Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance is pretty straightforward, and certain wizards from both worlds canonically meet on a regular basis.
I have just recently played through BT1-BT3 again. I was very pleasantly surprised by BT2. The Snare Dungeons, in particular, breathe new life into the game.
ReplyDeleteRe: Bard's Tale 2
ReplyDeleteThe starter dungeon is designed for newly created parties. After completing it, you will be (roughly) on the same level than a imported BT1 party. (IIRC)
This means that the only battles that will be "too easy" for imported characters are those in the starter dungeon. After that less so.
I'd suggest playing the starter dungeon even with an imported party, simply because of the puzzles/riddles (and to familiarize yourself with the game mechanics) - despite the then easy battles.
As in all Bard's Tales I'd say the battles are the weakest part of the game. It's about mapping the dungeons and solving riddles (which are very good in BT2 IMO).
Not my experience. The bottom levels of the starter dungeon are considerably harder then the first regular dungeon levels.
DeleteBoth an imported party and one that has completed the starter dungeon will be overleveled for most of the game.
OTOH the starter dungeon is maybe the best designed one in the game.
But if you hate the combat and play it only for the mapping challenges and puzzles, using an imported party makes more sense.
"This means that the only battles that will be 'too easy' for imported characters are those in the starter dungeon." I seem to recall that the outdoor and city battles were all pretty pathetic, too.
DeleteI played through the remake of BT and and BT2 last year, after I discovered this blog. Started a new party for BT2 because I didn't find the "original difficulty" settings until then. By about 2/3 of the way through I was nearly completely untouchable in combat, and the main obstacle was the time it took to play through them all. I eventually realized the first few levels had trained me to run away as a desperation move if I thought a fight was going to wreck me (most of the time!) and to fight every combat that seemed winnable because I needed the XP and loot, and I kept that mindset way too long. Once XP becomes a linear progression, fighting every combat keeps you over-levelled. The secret, I think, is to always run from fights that are too easy as well as fights that are too hard. Mainly to save time, but also that way you stop gaining XP until the dungeons catch up to your level. Reverse grinding.l, sort of.
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