tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post8950808939791453871..comments2024-03-28T10:19:08.172-04:00Comments on The CRPG Addict: BRIEF: Golvellius (1987)CRPG Addicthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-63863162204514081722023-08-30T07:33:16.554-04:002023-08-30T07:33:16.554-04:00Oh Golvellius was good, even original, some intere...Oh Golvellius was good, even original, some interesting ideas--but it was difficult to conquer and later in game felt tedious.javnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-64832893798933948092023-08-29T20:05:31.193-04:002023-08-29T20:05:31.193-04:00Golvellius is one of the better games released for...Golvellius is one of the better games released for the Master System in America. I really enjoyed it when I got to it last year.Zack Macomberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18077050078436768492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-9892826830067508242022-03-16T19:53:12.559-04:002022-03-16T19:53:12.559-04:00CRPG = computer role playing game, and role playin...CRPG = computer role playing game, and role playing game refers to a genre of games inspired to at least some degree by D&D, where character creation and/or development plays a central role. If a game doesn't feature that, it's not an RPG. Simple as. JarlFrankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08139422412722665286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-85915436510237380962022-03-16T12:48:49.332-04:002022-03-16T12:48:49.332-04:00"Metroid, on the other hand, is a 2D platform..."Metroid, on the other hand, is a 2D platformer. It has no significant adventure elements, no puzzles, no non-combat means of interacting with the environment."<br /><br />I think this is selling Metroid a bit short. The High Jump Boots and Morph Ball are non-combat means of interacting with the environment, and it's creative with how the Ice Beam and Bombs can be used to find secret passages. And certainly the open exploration has to also be factored in?asimpkinsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-4699196725778830342022-03-16T10:38:02.945-04:002022-03-16T10:38:02.945-04:00Interestingly, Dungeon Master is an RPG that has a...Interestingly, Dungeon Master is an RPG that has action, but it is not an "action RPG", in the sense that it's clearly a different genre than these console games.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-16179188187067836092022-03-16T09:14:59.761-04:002022-03-16T09:14:59.761-04:00Those criteria were only meant to be applied to co...Those criteria were only meant to be applied to console games that seem like they might be action RPGs, they weren't intended to apply to a game like Dungeon Master.Kurisuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00132568197501054206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-11122769160576039912022-03-16T00:11:18.782-04:002022-03-16T00:11:18.782-04:00The 2nd criteria makes Dungeon Master a non-action...The 2nd criteria makes Dungeon Master a non-action RPG, unless you consider the 1st level a safe place (for me it's just an "environmental menu").<br /><br />O Andarilhohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07019567278394775271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-76858848510006597602022-03-15T17:54:09.158-04:002022-03-15T17:54:09.158-04:00@Ross: I really like this way of describing genre....@Ross: I really like this way of describing genre. It feels very right to me. Kudos!Mayhaymhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10379607747655676744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-16863968198463404932022-03-15T16:09:33.388-04:002022-03-15T16:09:33.388-04:00Since 1974, to be precise :PSince 1974, to be precise :PRadianthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03866535042372152723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-84186683883242639042022-03-15T15:16:13.195-04:002022-03-15T15:16:13.195-04:00Since when are American tabletop RPGs the only kin...Since when are American tabletop RPGs the only kind of RPGs? I always understood it that the author of this blog defined a cRPG game as "a game that I [Chet] say is a cRPG" (and that was fine most time, well, outside of a few funny oddities like calling QfG a RPG while classifying Veil of Darkness as an adventure game). But trying to rationalize this made-up definition ex post is no longer funny because it just shows that a) you have a very narrow view on the matter b) you don't know how classification systems works (in science etc.). I think rather than trying to reinvent a definition of RPGs one more time it is better to stick to what popular gaming sites say regarding specific games. While not perfect, at least this way is relatively foolproof and avoids unnecessary controversy.Readerhttp://google.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-56300219118758015322022-03-15T14:34:08.822-04:002022-03-15T14:34:08.822-04:00It may be helpful to think of a genre as being lik...It may be helpful to think of a genre as being like a region on a map, and genre tropes and markers like landmarks. There may be no one single genre element which is outright required, but the more of them you can see from where you're standing, the less ambiguous it is whether or not you are where you say you are.Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09703211229982182936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-87899934723443177972022-03-15T14:28:56.865-04:002022-03-15T14:28:56.865-04:00@Anonymous: My goal in the definition was to try t...@Anonymous: My goal in the definition was to try to find some kind of semi-objective criteria that would exclude games that don't really feel like RPGs to me. I do think there's a distinction between Action-RPGs and action games that have some RPG elements like levels or equipment. <br /><br />@NLeseul: This was specifically for consoles, so I didn't have to deal with NetHack...although I did exclude Torneko's Dungeon games as not being RPGs, so maybe that's a similar thing.Kurisuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00132568197501054206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-66872672455735922682022-03-15T14:18:45.760-04:002022-03-15T14:18:45.760-04:00Depends on the length of a module. There are short...Depends on the length of a module. There are shorter CRPGs that feel like a classic pen and paper module in length, and there are big modules that are almost like a CRPG in length.<br /><br />And then there's CRPGs that allow character importing.<br /><br />(the most recent one I know of that allows it is ATOM RPG: Trudograd which allows importing your original ATOM RPG character)JarlFrankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08139422412722665286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-22100045164294481112022-03-15T13:52:42.970-04:002022-03-15T13:52:42.970-04:00Not that it's my choice any more than it is yo...Not that it's my choice any more than it is yours, but as interesting as I find Zelda II, I'd prefer Chet's next console foray be an actual RPG proper than another action-RPG hybrid he's almost guaranteed to hate. After the likes of Simon's Quest and Deadly Towers, the guy deserves to play something that console RPG fanboys actually consider worth playing. It's no coincidence that the one console game Chet seemed to really enjoy was one people had been pestering him to play for years.Kearudanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-50075045738773916472022-03-15T13:37:23.744-04:002022-03-15T13:37:23.744-04:00I like this one... but arguably, a module in a TRP...I like this one... but arguably, a module in a TRPG is the equivalent of a dungeon in a CRPG; and where you can reuse your character for multiple modules (in the same campaign) in a TRPG, you can certainly use your character for multiple dungeons (in the same game) in a CRPG. So this definition still holds for most CRPGs.<br />I'd say the defining feature of TRPGs is that your character can affect the world with actions that aren't covered by the rules (as opposed to "normal" boardgames, where you can't). This is by definition never possible in computer games, although sandbox games like Ultima 6 come closest.Radianthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03866535042372152723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-66607162364657584482022-03-15T13:04:20.923-04:002022-03-15T13:04:20.923-04:00I do really like the "towns" criterion f...I do really like the "towns" criterion for RPGs in general. A big part of the tabletop experience was the fact that the characters exist outside the scope of any particular dungeon or adventure, and that they spend the time between adventures improving equipment, doing magical research, or gathering information about future plot hooks. Same holds for narratives like LotR that were the foundation of story in RPGs—they alternate between dangerous "travel" sequences and relatively safe "town" sequences. A game that's just a single big dungeon, without any towns in between, is kind of missing that aspect of the RPG experience.<br /><br />That said, there are games like NetHack that are plainly RPGs even without towns, so it's probably not an absolute requirement. NetHack and Ultima feel like such different games that there might still be a meaningful subcategorical distinction there, though.NLeseulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10470251242004226908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-65957774259982068912022-03-15T11:40:59.225-04:002022-03-15T11:40:59.225-04:00I would guess it's either:
1) the fact that t...I would guess it's either:<br /><br />1) the fact that the experience/level system feels vaguely perfunctory in some of those later Castlevania games (that is to say, sure it makes numbers go up, but your input dexterity matters way more than the numbers; contrast most Ys games where almost no amount of input dexterity will get you through the game significantly underleveled because you'll simply just be unable to deal damage)<br /><br />2) alternatively, Kurisu just doesn't like Castlevania games and wants an excuse not to play them for their blog, which is as valid as Chet not generally liking console RPGsReiskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09444824451578560746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-3760845648410093742022-03-15T11:23:25.841-04:002022-03-15T11:23:25.841-04:00"Evolution is more the truth" is bogus. ..."Evolution is more the truth" is bogus. There are commonly-accepted terms that aren't literal, and it aids discussion if you accept that these have commonly-accepted definitions. Otherwise you're making conversation difficult for no good reason.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-44517963634907322682022-03-15T11:19:16.575-04:002022-03-15T11:19:16.575-04:00There are lots of terms that sound like "A an...There are lots of terms that sound like "A and B" where it doesn't literally mean "everything that is both A and B". Not every way on which you drive is a driveway. Not every pig from Guinea is a guinea pig. And not every game in which you play a role is a roleplaying game. No need to be pedantic about it or to claim that nobody can prove you wrong.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-90747896243962885862022-03-15T11:13:29.338-04:002022-03-15T11:13:29.338-04:00I guess if I were trying to develop a definition o...I guess if I were trying to develop a definition of "RPG" from first principles deriving from the tabletop RPG model and ignoring the historical precident set by the games we actually identify as CRPGs, I think the thing I would have zeroed in on more than anything is that the characters are given primacy over the scenario - statistical growth being an example (though possibly NOT a required feature), but perhaps even more important: the characters continue to "exist" even after a "story" is completed, and the players continue to use the same characters in multiple stories with a persistent history. <br /><br />Using that definition, very few of the games we acknowledge as computer RPGs would actually qualify (and thus it's not very useful for the purposes of this blog), and the ones that do almost feel like an evolutionary offshoot that went largely fallow in the '90s (though MMORPGs could be seen as a reemergence of the line). It would be interesting to imagine an alternative history where "you carry over characters from previous games" was considered the defining characteristic of crpgs. Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09703211229982182936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-36891404520512120722022-03-15T11:12:34.990-04:002022-03-15T11:12:34.990-04:00I don't get the second point. Why would you cl...I don't get the second point. Why would you claim that metroidvanias (assuming they have stats) aren't action RPGs?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-4282536675278720682022-03-15T09:27:01.621-04:002022-03-15T09:27:01.621-04:00For my own blog I came up with these criteria to d...For my own blog I came up with these criteria to distinguish an "Action RPG" from an action-adventure game (or whatever you want to call it):<br /><br />1. It has to have stats beyond health and magic/power that you can develop<br /><br />2. It needs to have safe places like towns (this was mostly to exclude the later Metroid-like Castlevania games)<br /><br />3. There has to be some element of exploration rather than just a series of stages <br /><br />I've found this pretty reliable at excluding games that don't feel like RPGs to me, although it's not perfect.Kurisuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00132568197501054206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-467994321107088772022-03-15T09:24:02.314-04:002022-03-15T09:24:02.314-04:00I think that when you compare the original Zelda t...I think that when you compare the original Zelda to other games coming out in 1986-1988, it's harder to draw a clear distinction between "action RPGs" and Zelda. I think it's not until later that the differences crystallize more.Kurisuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00132568197501054206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-519954705780579542022-03-15T08:50:37.958-04:002022-03-15T08:50:37.958-04:00The term RPG as a genre category was coined by Dun...The term RPG as a genre category was coined by Dungeons and Dragons. This is the problem with taking genre names too literally: it's not a descriptive name, it's just the name Gary Gygax came up with when giving a name to D&D.<br /><br />D&D was originally derived from wargames (which are highly complex simulationist games focused on battlefield tactics - Call of Duty is not a wargame, despite being a game set in a war), but instead of controlling armies you controlled a single character or a small group of characters and fought against challenges set up by the Dungeon Master. Your characters would also earn experience and get better at doing stuff.<br /><br />That's the foundation of the genre: wargame-derived dice based combat with figurines on a tabletop board; going through a set of challenges designed by the DM (rather than PvP matches); you play a single character or small group of characters (in early D&D it wasn't unheard of to play two characters simultaneously) who gain experience and improve their abilities.<br /><br />The genre has developed into many different directions since then, but the core elements still remain. You control one character or a small group of characters, your character(s) gain experience and improve their abilities, and it's a PvE instead of a PvP game.<br /><br />Now where's the "role-playing" here? Easy: the role-playing in RPG refers to the character's functional role within the party. The fighter's role is to engage enemies in close combat. The thief's role is to deal with traps and locked doors. The cleric's role is to support and heal the party. The wizard's role is to use magic for crowd controlling the enemy hordes. Those are all "roles" that individual characters have within the adventuring party. It has nothing to do with playing a role in theater, or with make-believe cowboys and indians games played by kids. Just because those also involve some kind of playing a role doesn't mean they're RPGs.<br /><br />The term RPG refers to a genre of games that offer a certain ruleset which allows you to play certain types of characters in certain contexts. And then you can play your way through situations presented to you by the DM (or the computer, which takes the DM's place in a CRPG) and refer to the rules to resolve any potential challenges. Is my character able to do this thing? Refer to the rules, check your character sheet, roll the dice (or not, depending on the ruleset).<br /><br />The existence of a ruleset that determines the abilities of your character is the core element of every RPG, including action RPGs. In an action RPG like Gothic you also have stats and skills which improve your handling of weapons in the action combat system. The skills define what your character can or cannot do. That's what RPG means: a ruleset to define your character's abilities, so you can then role-play that character based on his character sheet's specifications. JarlFrankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08139422412722665286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-81760723482011178162022-03-15T06:57:39.332-04:002022-03-15T06:57:39.332-04:00Huzzah!!!
Which is why I think the last point on ...Huzzah!!!<br /><br />Which is why I think the last point on any attempt to quantify a CRPG is Chet's ability to decree it is one or not for his purposes. None of us owns his blog and writing!<br />arthurdawghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04269435724709435094noreply@blogger.com