tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post6926835704418995911..comments2024-03-29T02:34:55.592-04:00Comments on The CRPG Addict: Ring of Darkness: Won! (With Final Rating)CRPG Addicthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comBlogger60125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-22855053651953609982022-04-05T14:10:56.028-04:002022-04-05T14:10:56.028-04:00This is a good article and well written. I enjoyed...This is a good article and well written. I enjoyed playing Ring of Darkness back in the 80s, on a Dragon 32. Of all the games I tried on various home computers, this was probably the best. If Xroar worked properly I would play it now.<br /><br />There was something about the game play that was compelling. The multi-tape format and the ability to save games was a breakthrough at the time. And the dungeon graphics, although very simple, were strangely atmospheric.<br /><br />The idiosyncrasies detailed in the article brought back memories too, although the Dragon 32 version did feature a complete terrain map, so no need to get the pen and paper out. I was intrigued to learn that the dungeons were all based on the same layout.<br /><br />Never knew until now the game was based on Ultima, (which wasn't available for the Dragon in any case). <br /><br />Thanks again, Jim.PeskyPedanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15924154815262943694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-50627276937768067242021-07-25T16:22:02.937-04:002021-07-25T16:22:02.937-04:00I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this yet, but...I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this yet, but maybe the transportation shops being labeled Smith was a nod to Smith the Horse?Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09234000344155392850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-6788533321254964932018-12-05T10:17:15.702-05:002018-12-05T10:17:15.702-05:00Hi There,
I played Ring of Darkness, Return of the...Hi There,<br />I played Ring of Darkness, Return of the Ring and Juxtaposition on the Dragon 32 back in the 80s.<br />Memories - RoD was too hard for 10 y/o me to work out, beyond the first couple of quests. Going into one of the dungeons always seemed like a suicide mission due to falling down a pit. The general slowness also discouraged repeated attempts. I have vague memory that I accidentally overwrote some of the source code on the cassette because the copy protection tab hadn't been punched out. I met Wintersoft at the 6809 Show in London, explained the situation and they gave me a free replacement copy!!<br />RotR - this was another graphic/text adventure as far as I remember. I don't remember too much more about it other than not getting very far!!<br />Juxtaposition - this seemed to be AMAZING! Dragon User published a hand drawn map of the Ceti V planet that the game was set on, and in a subsequent issue the published a high level walkthrough. So, this was one of the few games I completed!! I don't recall any combat though.Alastairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13078107144060567744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-57605509304400766272017-05-12T18:11:59.508-04:002017-05-12T18:11:59.508-04:00Operation Gremlin sounds a lot like a video game i...Operation Gremlin sounds a lot like a video game implementation of <a href="https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/162/awful-green-things-outer-space" rel="nofollow">The Awful Green Things From Outer Space</a> (1979)Harlandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-10482054059118661912017-05-08T18:57:50.150-04:002017-05-08T18:57:50.150-04:00Thanks for stopping by and commenting, Eugene. I d...Thanks for stopping by and commenting, Eugene. I don't have many British readers with experience with these games during the era, so it's nice to hear from the few who have original recollections.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-57319899892277236782017-05-08T15:32:40.338-04:002017-05-08T15:32:40.338-04:00Hi! Just stumbled onto your blog recently and work...Hi! Just stumbled onto your blog recently and working my way through. Really enjoying it!<br /><br />Anyhow, I think i can shed some speculation on Ring of Darkness which I played on the Oric-1, which I think is the original version of Ring of Darkness. The "weird" QWOP movement keys will be completely familiar to an Oric-1 owner -- the keyboard has 4 cursor keys, 2 each on the left and right of the spacebar. The cursor keys (from left to right) is left down up down, which I guess is what the developers are trying to achieve by the QW ----- OP arrangement.<br /><br />Wintersoft was started off as a game developer for Oric-1 (but i think they move to other platforms when Oric-1 ran into financial difficulties and died in early 85).<br /><br />Operation Gremlin (for the Oric-1) is actually not a text adventure, but an interesting mix of action and CPRG. You control 8 characters, stuck in a space station overrun by gremlins, and must find a way to get to the escape pod. The characters are separated, and you can jump to any character at any time. The game is real time -- so the gremlins will move, lay eggs, and try to kill your characters. You can defend yourself by picking up items which can be used as weapons. Although it has some RPG elements (hit points, items, etc), it doesn't really qualify as one but it was one of my favorite games.<br /><br />Eugenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05388675235005762209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-86491027074221931362016-01-23T13:28:25.592-05:002016-01-23T13:28:25.592-05:00I already mentioned joy to key in the other blog b...I already mentioned joy to key in the other blog but its a good program to get to change keystrokes to gamepad.<br /><br />I did find a few sites that might help on those other games by this company:<br /><br />http://www.elisoftware.org/index.php?title=Return_Of_The_Ring_(Dragon_32,_Cassette)_Wintersoft_-_1984_UK_Release<br /><br />http://www.retrogamingtimes.com/magazine/?issue=109&page=303&theme=metal<br /><br />HOpe this helps out some.Keighnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05729875531199535433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-28650179310708292582015-06-20T07:26:55.834-04:002015-06-20T07:26:55.834-04:00Raifeld: Was it ported from C64? It was really lim...Raifeld: Was it ported from C64? It was really limited in the variables it could use, to one letter (or arrays). Canageekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03770924810559440307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-21686890173759112322015-06-20T07:23:07.774-04:002015-06-20T07:23:07.774-04:00Don't think you are right there Laurence. Ever...Don't think you are right there Laurence. Everything I've read about the BIOS is that its job is done once the OS loads and handles input/output itself. <br /><br />Also; none of these strike me as compatibility errors. These all strike me as math errors and other computer bugs. If they were compatibility errors they'd behave differently on various platforms and emulators, these all seem consistent. Canageekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03770924810559440307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-58417997469712140262015-06-19T05:00:20.572-04:002015-06-19T05:00:20.572-04:00Oh man, as soon as I read "It is an RPG made ...Oh man, as soon as I read "It is an RPG made by people who seem to have played only one other RPG, and didn't realize that its quirks were specific to that game, and not universal conventions of the genre." I knew what this is: You've discovered a CRPG Fantasy Heartbreaker. This term is used in the tabletop RPG community for a game produced by someone who appears to have only ever played D&D, and, convinced they can do it better, puts out a game without stopping to check if other RPGs exist. Often they will think of ways to fix D&D and implement something they think is groundbreaking (Hit locations, spell points) that they think will make people flock to the game, when in fact there have been stacks of games using the system they thought up since oh, the late 70s or early 80s. Canageekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03770924810559440307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-52236135115779080782014-08-05T19:10:47.459-04:002014-08-05T19:10:47.459-04:00One thing that caused problems for DOS games was t...One thing that caused problems for DOS games was that DOS relied heavily on BIOS code. (For the non-technical, that's code that's on a memory chip on the computer's main board and knows how to do things like beep the speaker, put letters on the screen, and read from the keyboard.)<br /><br />All of the computer systems had an equivalent to the BIOS, what made the PC different was the "clones". Basically, IBM built the PC from off-the-shelf parts and programmed their BIOS to make them work together.<br /><br />Enter the clone-makers. The off-the-shelf part combination used for a PC can be gleaned by reading the labels. So all they needed was the BIOS. Which was copyright IBM. So they wrote their own that did the same job.<br /><br />Which is where lots of programs (particularly games) fall down. Most clones were "IBM compatible". By that they meant that the officially-published parts of the BIOS could be counted on to do the same things as the IBM BIOS. But the precise way it went about doing those things might be different. <br /><br />Games (especially in that era) generally need to squeeze every last bit of power out of the computers on which they run. So the developers of games often did things for speed that made use of the precise behaviour of the IBM BIOS, ranging from relying on certain things being done in precisely the same order to finding unofficial, internal functions in the BIOS code that did what they wanted. The end result was that, if the game were played on a non-IBM machine, sometimes things didn't work quite as intended.<br /><br />If the developers of the game in question were poor and didn't use an IBM machine, it gets even worse, and you end up with a game that runs perfectly on a Compaq something-or-other, buggily on an IBM machine, and not at all on a different clone-maker's.<br /><br />And, when you load up your DOS emulator, you're not running IBM's BIOS. They still own the copyright on that. So you're essentially running yet another clone. It is, at this point, a really darn close clone, but it's still not exact. So some games (especially ones that pushed the computers of the era to their absolute limits) might have random oddities. And people who play it on actual hardware may well notice different bugs depending on what hardware they use.tlhonmeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03256644187305759072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-18818645688018811592014-07-30T12:16:59.616-04:002014-07-30T12:16:59.616-04:00I'm a little more lenient. I fail the student ...I'm a little more lenient. I fail the student on the assignment the first time, on the entire class the second time. <br /><br />I've had plenty of students do even worse, including copying directly from Wikipedia.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-40164965920115191672014-07-28T20:22:30.851-04:002014-07-28T20:22:30.851-04:00I blame Wiki. Then again, I myself scored pretty w...I blame Wiki. Then again, I myself scored pretty well BECAUSE of Wiki. Since it was still in a pretty infantile stage and my prof was really techno-phobic (kept prophesying that "The Internets" will kill the written word) to touch a computer to find a similar article online. =PKenny McCormickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01553499727945099493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-3415815347382975452014-07-28T20:17:22.019-04:002014-07-28T20:17:22.019-04:00Because it's not "influence" if you&...Because it's not "influence" if you're copying the entire shit wholesale, apparently. You wouldn't pass any undergrad who tried the same stunt with you, would you? XDKenny McCormickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01553499727945099493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-6160558730302911152014-07-28T20:12:12.511-04:002014-07-28T20:12:12.511-04:00Oh, and for Keys to Maramon, don't camp the mo...Oh, and for Keys to Maramon, don't camp the monsters at the tower door. It may be effective, but it's game breaking.Kenny McCormickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01553499727945099493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-2087430169725722072014-07-28T20:10:05.891-04:002014-07-28T20:10:05.891-04:00Yeah. During then, playing an action game on anyth...Yeah. During then, playing an action game on anything else other than a console is maddening.<br /><br />Which is why our fondest memories of any PC game in the 70s & 80s were all turned based games (strategy/RPG/adventure). I still remember my first flight sim game. Terrible piece of shit.<br /><br />And Bethesda's pre-Dagger Scrolls 1st-person RPG game: Terminator. http://media.pcgamer.com/files/2011/12/term_5.jpg<br /><br />Aaand... although it looks like crap with today's standard, The Terminator released in the same year for Nintendo looks a lot better. http://www.jamescamerononline.com/term%20nes1.jpgKenny McCormickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01553499727945099493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-12464304213129612172014-07-27T04:17:44.503-04:002014-07-27T04:17:44.503-04:00Clearly you need to start doing a 'retrospecti...Clearly you need to start doing a 'retrospectives' series, where you start reviewing games you've already reviewed ;)Tristan Gallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16769219573533545742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-5378382162946869522014-07-27T04:13:45.020-04:002014-07-27T04:13:45.020-04:00Well yeah, it's [in]famous for being one of th...Well yeah, it's [in]famous for being one of the worst fight scenes in television history. Now you'll understand the references to it that pop up now and then in geek culture.Tristan Gallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16769219573533545742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-46986066951737711192014-07-26T22:12:53.713-04:002014-07-26T22:12:53.713-04:00Atari ST version of Captive is basically identical...Atari ST version of Captive is basically identical to the Amiga version. Only thing missing is stereo sound - and if you run it on an STE, you get even that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-1411689947439759512014-07-26T19:44:58.217-04:002014-07-26T19:44:58.217-04:00I think DOS was just too complicated and fragmente...I think DOS was just too complicated and fragmented to port to properly. Atari and Amiga had basically one model each, the difference was mainly if the game used 512 kb or 1 mb of RAM. Also both machines were similar enough to get away with a half-assed port, using the worst of both worlds (Atari graphics and Amiga sound).<br /><br />PCs had lots of different sound- and graphiccards, so you had to add a lot of compatibility. I think the first proper gaming PC was a 386 with a VGA card, but it never had a market share large enough to specialize on. It took much longer until there was a quasi standard with 486s, SVGA cards and Soundblasters - that was the moment I ditched my Atari.<br /><br />But even as a simple user, I had a couple of boot disks with different setups, which was already kind of complicated (actually it was fun, but I'd hate it nowadays). Porting a game to such a complicated environment surely wasn't easier and half-assing wasn't enough.sucinumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-30986342341767114682014-07-26T19:41:41.168-04:002014-07-26T19:41:41.168-04:00"...I often catch my students plagiarizing fr..."...I often catch my students plagiarizing from their sources by copying text directly but using a thesaurus to change a few words here and there to avoid exact phrase-matching in Google or TurnItIn."<br /><br />When I went to college (20+ years ago), getting caught for plagiarism was an automatic F in the course, at minimum. It disturbs me that you say you OFTEN encounter such bad behavior. Kids, these days...<br /><br />That being said, I don't see anything tort-worthy in Ring of Darkness (speaking as a non-lawyer, of course).<br /><br />Sure, they lifted some basic RPG and plot concepts, but it doesn't seem like they copied code (the most incriminating form of computer plagiarism), or proprietary artwork, or used any Ultima characters, or copied any Ultima quest text.<br />Victarhttp://www.victarfanfics.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-11645493728051250802014-07-26T19:17:24.509-04:002014-07-26T19:17:24.509-04:00Thanks for digging that up. I try to do reasonably...Thanks for digging that up. I try to do reasonably comprehensive post-game searches about the developers and companies, and I don't know how I overlook so much stuff.<br /><br />Not a peep about the <i>Ultima</i> influence in the article, of course.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-59256247052828776882014-07-26T19:16:13.021-04:002014-07-26T19:16:13.021-04:00Indeed. I still see U2 as a major step backwards f...Indeed. I still see U2 as a major step backwards from U1. CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-12198475850609507532014-07-26T17:31:08.713-04:002014-07-26T17:31:08.713-04:00Well, I wasn't trying to say that monster-copy...Well, I wasn't trying to say that monster-copying is as cruddy as mechanics-copying. A lot of monsters are archetypal and/or nightmare fuel, and there are only so many good ones, and D&D filched every one that they could, leaving rather little left over; I'd find it hard to design a game with only strictly original monsters. Stealing mechanics, however, is less excusable.<br /><br />As for those, I can't really say how much of RoD is from Ultima, or how much of early Ultima is from D&D, without going code-diving. The surest way would be to find out how the games adjudicate to-hit rolls based on level and armor class. I know that a lot of early CRPGs use D&D mechanics without much alteration, so I wouldn't be surprised if early Ultima combat was based on similar or identical mechanics.<br /><br />As for the rest of early Ultima's originality, no comment. But I would say that very, very few games offer novel twists on the same old thing, and there's nothing truly new under the sun. Ultima IV, V, and VI are among the few, at least.<br /><br />I think you're right that Wintersoft got an Apple ][ somehow and played the hell out of Ultima 0/1/2, reverse-engineering them that way. And yes, their level of plagiarism greatly surpasses young Garriott's, unquestionably.Gaguumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-38015519971082947802014-07-26T16:02:26.139-04:002014-07-26T16:02:26.139-04:00If you're suggesting that copying the names of...If you're suggesting that copying the names of monsters from a list is the same as copying the entire structure and mechanic of a game, I simply can't agree. I don't think we're looking at anywhere near the same level of plagiarism. Also, I think it's disingenuous to suggest that Garriott had no original ideas just because some of his creatures (tanglers, vipers, mind wippers, zorns) were simply similar to those found in D&D. If we use that as a yardstick, hardly any game has anything original.<br /><br />Garriott's games, even if they did copy the basic RPG premise and MOST of the monsters from D&D, offered original plots, settings, and game mechanics. There's no evidence that he played a single CRPG prior to <i>Akalabeth</i>, and thus he had to figure out how to program all of this on his own. That he went to D&D for some of the monsters shouldn't detract from his highly-original achievements.<br /><br />I would bet $5000 that the developers of this game didn't simply play Ultima a single time on a visit to the U.S. If they did, they would have had to a) play all the way to the end; and b) take extremely detailed notes. I would bet that they somehow acquired an Apple II and the game and referenced it constantly as they designed Ring of Darkness. "So they hewed closely to the formula because they didn't understand how or why it worked, only that it did" aligns with what I think happened.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.com