tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post5891934790763345897..comments2024-03-19T06:03:57.317-04:00Comments on The CRPG Addict: Worlds of Ultima: The Savage Empire: Final RatingCRPG Addicthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-13736327444342212252023-03-31T16:59:22.520-04:002023-03-31T16:59:22.520-04:00this happens EVERY. TIME. lol.
origin seem so g...this happens EVERY. TIME. lol.<br /><br />origin seem so good at pulling ideas out of a hat and setting them up as game worlds and then SO BAD at the follow through.<br /><br />it makes me want to scream, sometimes.<br /><br />in your second posting on this game, i really thought, "actually, this seems so cool" [much in the way i thought the framing idea for space 1889 was a super neat idea] and then origin kind of come along and botch the execution by making the game so BORING.<br /><br />it also doesn't help, i guess, that this feels like a step back from actual ultima 6 while using the ultima 6 engine.<br /><br />it's really too bad.<br /><br />but i get the feeling - often - that richard garriott and co mainly used these games as little testing grounds for ideas.<br /><br />maybe the test here was: "can we port the avatar to other types of game world outside of the fantasy milieu and does that resonate with players? [and will they buy it.]<br /><br />the answer seems like a resounding no, sadly, because just as this sub-series seemed like it was getting interesting [martian dreams], they shelved other projects like it. :(lostwolfehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11697299839262994456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-79400819301716942072022-06-18T18:35:08.277-04:002022-06-18T18:35:08.277-04:00If we're defining "crafting" as maki...If we're defining "crafting" as making useful objects out of mundane objects in a realistic manner, I think some version of <i>NetHack</i> (maybe even the original <i>Hack</i>) probably has this beat. This might be the first real GRAPHICAL crafting system.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-24996585553426338072022-06-13T21:16:44.895-04:002022-06-13T21:16:44.895-04:00Is this the first CRPG with a real crafting system...Is this the first CRPG with a real crafting system? Ultima VII has gotten a lot of the attention for a system (baking bread and making bandages) that is both simpler and less useful.stepped pyramidsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-70262659500652803642022-06-10T18:12:30.594-04:002022-06-10T18:12:30.594-04:00Didn't see it mentioned here, so I wonder if t...Didn't see it mentioned here, so I wonder if the (apparently) first appearance of a quest log (Jimmy's notebook) was taken into account in the GIMLET? That seems to be an innovation which made it into many subsequent RPGs. <br />And might be worth adding if you ever feel like expanding your list of "firsts" in CRPGs (http://crpgaddict.blogspot.com/2012/10/first.html) - I could imagine the additional ten years since then have brought a few more interesting categories or even corrections given all your fascinating backtracking game archaeology and deeper analysis over time.<br /><br />So Rafkin was able to recount his adventures in the manual / adventure magazine alongside the others even though he chose to stay behind? Well, I guess maybe LB just opened another moongate to whisk him over for a little home(world) R&R and an article.Buscanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-44165326035814941392017-04-01T12:41:35.770-04:002017-04-01T12:41:35.770-04:00I recently played through this and think your revi...I recently played through this and think your review and rating is spot on. It's a rather nice short amusement in between two "real" entries to the ultima series. I also have to admit I like the pulp fantasy elements, although they really bring matters to a head here. Ja zey alsoh did inklood some cliché Germans, which always amuses me being German myself. Warren Spector however is not a German in reality as everyone probably knows. I wonder why they made him starring as a German professor in the game, perhaps no particular reason but who knows.<br /><br />The greatest beef I had with the game was the lost city of Kotl. Be glad you somehow stumbled into the control panel, bcause it took me hours. I didn't help that I have a compulsion to explore every dungeon in an rpg completely to grab all possible treasures on the way through. Especially the southern part of the city is somewhat confusing and hard to map. I think you said in some post that top down games are harder to map than dungeon crawlers, this is also proven here.fireballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01094871771537115267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-46853139151095449302015-09-06T12:23:00.740-04:002015-09-06T12:23:00.740-04:00No, there's only one color to the text. When I...No, there's only one color to the text. When I said it was "red, green, or brown," I meant that I didn't know what color it was. I can't see the variations in those colors. CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-18935870045331981522015-09-06T00:20:11.705-04:002015-09-06T00:20:11.705-04:00Right, but you said some where brown, some were re...Right, but you said some where brown, some were red, and some were green. What do the different colors mean?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-85998241424635975432015-09-05T22:25:26.203-04:002015-09-05T22:25:26.203-04:00They denote keywords that you can ask about in fur...They denote keywords that you can ask about in further dialogue.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-23805905719900723962015-09-05T21:53:10.309-04:002015-09-05T21:53:10.309-04:00What do the different colors in the dialogue denot...What do the different colors in the dialogue denote?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-70207958028560838262015-05-29T18:36:14.698-04:002015-05-29T18:36:14.698-04:00After reading all this, I can't wait to see ho...After reading all this, I can't wait to see how you rate Progress Quest... It will probably push the boundaries of a bunch of your categories. Pity I have to wait until you get to 2002.tlhonmeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03256644187305759072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-12814519010900064412015-05-24T22:26:01.136-04:002015-05-24T22:26:01.136-04:00Yeah, I agree Ultima 7 continues in the same vein ...Yeah, I agree Ultima 7 continues in the same vein of a "simulation adventure," but goes even further. Finally, the immersive bread-baking engine that I've always wanted! They really got a kick out of giving the world the mechanics to weave cloth and make items and whatnot... paving the way for more distilled Crafting in future games, I guess. <br /><br />I definitely agree the contemporary equivalent is the Elder Scrolls games. Though, I always feel like those games are so big and mechanical that it's too easy for me to get lost in them. I spend a few hours foraging for rare potion components when I sit up and wonder what the hell I'm doing with my time. That's less true for Skyrim, and definitely for Fallout 3.<br /><br />If someone started building compelling adventures in a sandbox RPG game engine, without the RPG components, I would play them. (In theory. My game playing time is considerably more limited these days, even though I keep funding Kickstarters that are seemingly designed to part me with my money.) It's a niche genre that hasn't really been adequately explored. Even with all the cool stuff that they did put into U7, I feel they could have done more adventury stuff into it.<br /><br />I wonder what the Minecraft adventure game from Telltale will be like. Certainly, it would be an opportunity for this kind of thing.Iffy Bonzooliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07519858732154180575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-6347914061497575982015-05-24T20:08:09.175-04:002015-05-24T20:08:09.175-04:00Well, Origin DID do the Worlds of Ultima games, an...Well, Origin DID do the Worlds of Ultima games, and that didn't save them, they still wound up gobbled up by Evil Arts... er Electronic Arts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-2822588543082991202015-05-24T17:10:34.796-04:002015-05-24T17:10:34.796-04:00I think that's kind of the point, though.I think that's kind of the point, though.BelatedGamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00897424082545246646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-4392879111155545512015-05-21T15:51:46.952-04:002015-05-21T15:51:46.952-04:00I mentioned Rance because it had very roughly the ...I mentioned <i>Rance</i> because it had very roughly the same final GIMLET as SMB (17 vs. 13), from which I (probably incorrectly) inferred that SMB would give only slightly less satisfying exploration, game world, etc, and though that your -5 bonus reflected how the offensiveness affected your actual enjoyment (in this case, it quite literally made your enjoyment negative. Especially since it would seem to follow that <i>Pool of Radiance</i>, if it had similar themes but was otherwise identical, would get a similar -5 bonus and maybe another -10 because of how it directly affected other categories, which would still leave it above 50.) Maybe- and I say this seriously- a -20 or -30 negative bonus would have been appropriate, since "bonus" is basically an "other" category- if something, anything seriously affects your enjoyment of a game, it should belong there, and a game that could be characterized as actively disgusting and offensive would surely deserve a negative score.EriChanTheRetroGamerNerdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10862547154849146963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-60753906118220832332015-05-21T12:53:58.131-04:002015-05-21T12:53:58.131-04:00Objectionable content muddies the waters a bit. A ...Objectionable content muddies the waters a bit. A game with <i>Rance's</i> mechanics but a less obnoxious plot would still be a mediocre RPG, but it would be better than a lot of others from the era. It would scratch my RPG itch in a way that <i>Super Mario Brothers</i> wouldn't, and I certainly wouldn't mind playing it again.<br /><br />To make a valid comparison, you have to pit <i>Rance</i> against a version of SMB in which you punch Jews instead of turtles or whatnot.<br /><br />There might not be a lot of subjectivity to how a game rates using my rubric, but of course there's a lot of subjectivity to the rubric itself. As you note, other people would drop or add categories to the scale or might weigh various elements more than I do. The GIMLET is my attempt to QUANTIFY my enjoyment of an RPG, but quantification does not mean objectivity.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-40178400657206350382015-05-21T12:43:18.993-04:002015-05-21T12:43:18.993-04:00"Instead of the rather artificial puzzles in ..."Instead of the rather artificial puzzles in classical adventure games, you can have puzzles that are simply natural consequences of the simulated game world." The last couple of <i>Elder Scrolls</i> games seem to ALMOST get there with some of the quests, but I agree it could be done much better, and in the context of a non-combat game. I don't think classic "adventure game" aficionados would like it as much, however. CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-32777894272210275892015-05-21T12:39:46.806-04:002015-05-21T12:39:46.806-04:00A pioont I was going to make in the next review is...A pioont I was going to make in the next review is that by only playing 30 minutes a day or so, I'm actually doing a better job mimicking the original experience than if I played all the way to the end.<br /><br />Don't apologize. I want my list to be as comprehensive as possible, and the game does have some interesting ideas.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-88364904638689245142015-05-21T11:37:19.631-04:002015-05-21T11:37:19.631-04:00Of course it should be evaluated for what it is (I...Of course it should be evaluated for what it is (I kind of like it, but it's not an RPG.) But the fact is that it essentially claims to be an AD&D RPG front and center, so it should also be evaluated as such, making the <i>claim</i> of an RPG a miserable failure, and my GIMLET <i>Super Mario Bros.</i> (which neither claims nor attempts to be an RPG) shows this. What the GIMLET does, it does very well, and removes a lot of subjectivity (I suspect that using Chet's rubric properly, scores should vary by at most 10 points or so, no matter who evaluates them.) I think the soundtracks to most <i>Final Fantasy</i> games add to the experience tremendously, but that's barely reflected in the GIMLET (and understandably so, because it's about Chet's preferences, not yours or mine.) If I were to build my own version, music would probably get its own category, and NPCs would be de-emphasized and folded into another category, for example.EriChanTheRetroGamerNerdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10862547154849146963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-28625226818804192212015-05-21T10:51:42.968-04:002015-05-21T10:51:42.968-04:00The Intellivision AD&D game was not developed ...The Intellivision AD&D game was not developed as Dungeons and Dragons. The game had been progressing well when the infamous suits that ran Mattel decided it needed a license. They talked to TSR and bought one of their products, which was red hot at the time. Apply it to the cartridge in development and boom, that's a good day's work for a suit. <br /><br />So evaluate the game for what it is, not what the label tells you to think. Harlandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-39302564955126015122015-05-21T10:06:13.198-04:002015-05-21T10:06:13.198-04:00For all games, there should be a moderate but not ...For all games, there should be a moderate but not absolute positive correlation between GIMLET score and overall game quality. <i>Rance</i> GIMLET'd at 17, SMB GIMLETs at 11-13, yet I'm sure Chet would rather play the latter, and consider it a better-made game. (For what SMB does, at the risk of comparing apples and oranges, I'd put it about on the level of <i>Ultima IV</i>, maybe a bit higher.) I don't think the "worst game ever" would necessarily be the "worst RPG ever."<br /><br />As for RPGs that are atrociously bad but would still score some points on the GIMLET... maybe <i>Mirai Shinwa Jarvas</i>? It's a Famicom game with a semi-detailed background story in the manual, money never really stops being useful, has some non-linearity and a variety of sub-objectives to actually complete the game, but the interface and action is so terrible that it ruins everything. My guess:<br /><br />GW- 3<br />CC/D- 4 (no creation, but can train in various classes and level your character)<br />NPC's- 2 (some have a few things to say)<br />E/F- 2 (There are monsters, arena duels, etc.0<br />M/C- 2 (Magic exists, combat exists.)<br />Equipment- 2 (Better weapons are nice, items are useful, but armor is completely useless due to a bug)<br />Econ- 4 (you need to keep coming up with money to beat the game)<br />Quests- 2 (Main quest with sub-objectives like increasing your fame and taking over continents)<br />G/S/I- 0 (Interface is actively hostile, music is annoying, people barely look like people)<br />Gameplay- 1 (A little freedom and nonlinearity, but the game system is so bad it's wasted)<br />Bonus: -3, because everything comes together so atrociously badly. Would be lower except for the creative premise of a space traveler returning to Earth.<br /><br />That's 19, which puts <i>Jarvas</i>, widely considered one of the worst games ever created by those who have played it, above <i>Akalabeth</i>, and tied with <i>Treasure of Tarmin</i>.EriChanTheRetroGamerNerdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10862547154849146963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-21215116797891850182015-05-21T05:51:40.083-04:002015-05-21T05:51:40.083-04:00About Ultima Underworld. I recommend considering u...About Ultima Underworld. I recommend considering use of the "Lights Patch" from the start. It's fan-made, but the game is just too damn dark. Without a torch, lamp or a light spell you can barely see walls without hugging them. And even with a source of light, it's like three to four meters (yards) worth of visibility.<br /><br />- VladimIr V YAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-41593429349850849482015-05-20T20:50:51.032-04:002015-05-20T20:50:51.032-04:00Surely it would have to be Big Rigs: Over the Road...Surely it would have to be Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing that gets a 0 or even a negative. It is notoriously considered the worst commercially released game of all time!Mikrakovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02359946565373258773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-49908546442167920542015-05-20T19:29:13.790-04:002015-05-20T19:29:13.790-04:00Desert Bus, perhaps? As a game, it barely functio...<i>Desert Bus</i>, perhaps? As a game, it barely functions, and quite literally seems to not want to be played (the bus veers slightly and this has to be corrected for, which is annoying but trivial if you're paying attention. This is to stop you from taping down the gas button.) As a work of art, though, it's brilliant.<br /><br />A video of one point in Desert Bus being scored, in real time:<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9c2oHbM-3A<br /><br />If not, maybe <i>Hong Kong 97</i> or <i>Crazy Bus</i>. HK97 might even get a negative bonus score for being racist (guessing from <i>Rance</i> that being actively offensive would be a -5) which should nullify any points it accidentally gets. I'd dig up videos of them, but Youtube isn't playing videos for me right now.<br /><br />I'm sure you can tell I've taken it as a challenge to find a game that's a straight zero. :PEriChanTheRetroGamerNerdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10862547154849146963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-77969687738827286022015-05-20T18:49:29.144-04:002015-05-20T18:49:29.144-04:00There are some genres, like racing games or some p...There are some genres, like racing games or some platformers, that have nothing that I'd consider "combat" or "encounters." The bigger difficulty would be to get a 0 in "gameplay." It would have to be completely linear, way too long, and way too easy or way too hard. Even then, it would be tough to find a game so bad that it got nothing in "graphics, sound, and interface."CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-51464227159006736742015-05-20T18:16:07.961-04:002015-05-20T18:16:07.961-04:00This kind of pure, scripted determinism is what al...This kind of pure, scripted determinism is what always bugged me about adventure games. From my memory of <i>Ultima 7</i>, though, what bugged me (and to a lesser extent in <i>Ultima 6</i>) is that it simplified and de-emphasized the RPG mechanics while still not quite feeling like a full-on adventure game (there weren't constant puzzles, it was possible to travel awhile and not have anything "adventurey" happen, etc.) <i>Ultima 5</i> struck this balance perfectly- there were puzzles to solve and items to find, yes- but it had perhaps the most interesting combat of the entire series, max HP was lowered 70% from U4 so you never really had enough HP to feel safe, etc.EriChanTheRetroGamerNerdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10862547154849146963noreply@blogger.com