tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post5791466627540913321..comments2024-03-28T20:51:01.807-04:00Comments on The CRPG Addict: Game 178: The Citadel of Chaos (1984)CRPG Addicthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-51266344039283476042018-02-13T06:47:48.920-05:002018-02-13T06:47:48.920-05:00Loved the gamebook, but I never played the compute...Loved the gamebook, but I never played the computer game. Shame, really!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-28145651786257357292017-11-10T13:27:08.160-05:002017-11-10T13:27:08.160-05:00Unfortunately, no. No one was able to find a copy....Unfortunately, no. No one was able to find a copy.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-52873775902020337822017-11-09T21:35:48.728-05:002017-11-09T21:35:48.728-05:00Have you been successful with Dungeons of Doom? I&...Have you been successful with Dungeons of Doom? I'm looking for this game for years.Alexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-9015242623502336282016-01-12T10:42:07.255-05:002016-01-12T10:42:07.255-05:00All this love for Gamebooks and no love for the Ca...All this love for Gamebooks and no love for the Car Wars books? Were they not very good or just not well known?Canageekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03770924810559440307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-41707851757911360582016-01-12T10:39:50.828-05:002016-01-12T10:39:50.828-05:00That makes sense then- those are all very RPG ways...That makes sense then- those are all very RPG ways to do things and ASJ was primarily an RPG writer at the time.Canageekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03770924810559440307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-62855180211961881982015-03-30T17:11:03.989-04:002015-03-30T17:11:03.989-04:00I tend to find that most of the old school gameboo...I tend to find that most of the old school gamebooks, because of how short they are, play more like nano-roguelikes than CRPGs/JRPGs. There's no grind so you end up playing it like one giant level where your job is to figure out the right combination of moves to unlock. Strangely enough, if anything they're mechanically like the one screen point and click puzzle (not adventure!) games where the goal is to combine ingredients/steps in a certain order. (Speaking of which, can anyone remember one of those games?)<br /><br />Since I've been working on building a gamebook recently, I spent some time rambling about <a href="http://destinyquestinfinite.com/2015/01/16/friday-night-rambling-gamebooks-fun/" rel="nofollow">how you might make gamebooks more fun</a>, from a design perspective. Still thinking about it though.<br /><br />Also Morton's fork is now permanently in my vocabulary now, next to Hobson's choice.Chrishttp://destinyquestinfinite.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-69751679962860510282015-03-14T16:27:03.556-04:002015-03-14T16:27:03.556-04:00Does anyone have a screenshot of it?Does anyone have a screenshot of it?HunterZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17049065099652976143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-88816521563081353382015-03-14T16:18:52.563-04:002015-03-14T16:18:52.563-04:00Yep, definitely missed opportunity (and clearly th...Yep, definitely missed opportunity (and clearly the path of least required effort)!Don Alsafihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02444013338961937244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-71905334619881450772015-03-14T13:43:43.470-04:002015-03-14T13:43:43.470-04:00"Citadel" is actually one of my favorite..."Citadel" is actually one of my favorite Fighting Fantasy books, largely because it does two things right:<br /><br />1) It allows you to solve the book with minimal starting skills - there are only three or so fights that cannot be circumvented and the monsters are all fairly weak.<br /><br />2) It offers numerous different paths through the book, each one leading you to different places, so you will be far from reading all identical stuff each time.<br /><br />This, in my opinion, should be sufficient to go with the "stick with your choices; win all reasonable combats automatically" playstyle. If only all FF books had allowed this - many of the later titles, especially those by Ian Livingstone, are extremely linear with only minor deviations, meaning you indeed have to read 90% of the same stuff each time to find the 1% with the crucial item you missed before. At which point, there's not much "choose" from "Choose your own adventure" left. Good thing that "Fighting Fantasy" put emphasis on the "fighting", because you'd certainly be doing that.<br /><br />If someone wrote an exploration-based FF-style book today, I might actually buy it, because, well, sometimes I just like a book instead of a screen. But alas, linearity seems to be the king of the day, apparently to allow for more consistent "story telling". In essence, this could be seen as the forebear of today's "sandbox vs. narrow story".The Architecthttp://ancient-architects.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-64767813420486779422015-03-14T09:55:31.616-04:002015-03-14T09:55:31.616-04:00The thing is, they COULD have been RPGs with a lit...The thing is, they COULD have been RPGs with a little more creativity and thought in the adaptation.<br /><br />Point taken on the three doors.<br /><br />As we're going to see, <i>The Forest of Doom</i> didn't adapt that "return to the beginning" option very well.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-31919068367640908502015-03-14T09:09:14.597-04:002015-03-14T09:09:14.597-04:00While it's always nice to hear from an RPGCode...While it's always nice to hear from an RPGCodex member, do try to be more specific next time.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-89272504350131044472015-03-13T19:34:12.105-04:002015-03-13T19:34:12.105-04:00The only Lone Wolf with a maddeningly specific rou...The only Lone Wolf with a maddeningly specific route you HAD to take, that I recall, was the second one. BelatedGamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00897424082545246646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-27695948466231168632015-03-13T19:31:35.168-04:002015-03-13T19:31:35.168-04:00I second An Assassin in Orlandes, all the collecti...I second An Assassin in Orlandes, all the collectibles make for tons of replayability, for a gamebook.BelatedGamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00897424082545246646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-67922579239175811552015-03-13T13:25:05.335-04:002015-03-13T13:25:05.335-04:00- Interesting to read that the computer version (t...- Interesting to read that the computer version (tried to) give you an in-game option to try again with different paths, there at the end. That's one of the things I think Forest of Doom did right; if you reach the end without finding both parts of the hammer, you're offered the option of circling the forest back to the beginning to try again (and keeping any items you found the first time). Of course, this approach does give rise to problems with realism, since - absent any of the innovative "room memory" functions of the later Scorpion Swamp - you will then almost certainly encounter foes you've already killed!<br /><br />- Finally, the only bit of your review I find *slightly* unfair is the screen shot showing the three doors from the leprechaun's room, and how they all lead to the same place. That's true - but only the FIRST time, and because (as it turns out) the leprechaun is pranking you with some nightmarish illusion. After you've met your (fake) demise and wake up in the leprechaun's room again, the three doors DO lead to different places.<br /><br />All that said, while I still have some nostalgic love for the series (and have been enjoying the heck out of the modern adaptations by Tin Man Games), I was shocked when I saw CoC in your "upcoming list". Because, inventory and hit points aside, they're really just CYOAs rather than RPGs.Don Alsafihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02444013338961937244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-33019800198558525282015-03-13T13:24:00.450-04:002015-03-13T13:24:00.450-04:00A couple of specific responses to several things m...A couple of specific responses to several things mentioned above:<br /><br />- As it happens, there ARE ways that gamebooks could offer later choices based on previous ones. You mention above that the player can't "actually go and find Kylltrog", but such a thing could of course have been implemented: Say one of the characters you meet in the courtyard tells you his name is Kyltrog. The gamebook could then ask if you've heard this name before (the Lone Wolf books did this a lot, as I recall), and if so, offer you the choice to offer him some food or medicine (since your prior conversation means you know he is sick, knowledge that another player wouldn't necessarily have). Of course, in a well-done computer adaptation, the "have you heard this name before?" check would be invisible.<br /><br />- Additionally, with regards to "He can't even turn around and go back to the gate and confront the guards again." - again, this is an innovation that a later installment, the aforementioned Scorpion Swamp, *would* allow. Scorpion Swamp was the eighth book, and was kind of shocking in how much it innovated. For instance, the swamp itself could be navigated both forward and back like any RPG encounter; you could go north from one area, then south again to go back to it. Each area would have an "initial" state, and then a "visited" state for you to turn to if you've been there before. Additionally, at the beginning you could choose to work for one of three wizards (good, neutral, evil), which affected the encounters you came upon in the swamp. Honestly, it was so innovative in its upending of the FF formula that it was doubly shocking to me (A) that, to my knowledge, it was never done again, and (B) it's never yet, to my knowledge, been selected for a computer adapation. Despite being the one perhaps most initially suited. (Unsurprisingly, this creative book was actually written by the American Steve Jackson, later of Steve Jackson Games, and not the one who helped found Fighting Fantasy and Games Worskhop.)Don Alsafihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02444013338961937244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-51086034445960921022015-03-13T13:22:26.652-04:002015-03-13T13:22:26.652-04:00Played these gamebooks as a kid, still have a nost...Played these gamebooks as a kid, still have a nostalgic love for them. But I definitely understand the frustrations, especially from a modern gaming perspective! In its defense, I'd offer that we didn't have nearly as many entertainment options back then, so the challenge of playing through again and again, trying to find the *one right path*, wasn't as onerous. With FFs, that process of discovery through trial and error to find the (usually) ONE correct route, really was part of the game. As opposed to the Lone Wolf books, which usually had several different ways you could complete the adventure.<br /><br />(Also, in the gamebook you can actually cheat in a way that you can't on computer: Keep a few fingers in the book at your last choices so you can easily "rewind" when killed off. And even back then, I think I only played through the combats on my first or second attempt. After that, I - and many others, I'd wager - would just skip past any combat sections, automatically "winning" them.)<br /><br />That said, when I discovered the existence of these computer adaptations a few years back, I was initially excited - until I booted one up and saw, as you did, that it was largely just a transposing of the text. I don't think I played it more than a few minutes after that.Don Alsafihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02444013338961937244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-18377615185106466912015-03-13T12:16:09.083-04:002015-03-13T12:16:09.083-04:00I only played one of the game books, and it has be...<br />I only played one of the game books, and it has been so very long that I have no recollection of which title it was. I liked D&D (I had not yet played very many CPRGs ), but I did not like the bok for whatever reason.<br /><br />I do have to commend Chester's presistence in finishing the game. I would have abandoned it in frustration after reaching the first "unwinnable" conclusion. Jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08526120228467162158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-28919900615526903412015-03-13T12:07:57.849-04:002015-03-13T12:07:57.849-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-68188316009640984802015-03-13T11:15:56.361-04:002015-03-13T11:15:56.361-04:00I'd say Island of the Lizard King is easier th...I'd say Island of the Lizard King is easier than Forest of Doom. FoD has many dead man walking situations from turning left instead of right, while Lizard King, other than a couple of tough combats, is a book you'll probably beat in your 2nd-3rd attempt (without cheating in any way).<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10155410179950267253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-91925627055850441132015-03-13T10:45:46.007-04:002015-03-13T10:45:46.007-04:00The first three FF aren't particularly strong ...The first three FF aren't particularly strong (CoC, Forest of Doom, and Warlock of firetop mountain) and are mostly revered because of nostalgia. I still think CoC is the best of these though.<br /><br /><br />The three that followed (City of Thieves, Starship Traveller and Deathtrap Dungeon) are a great.RuySanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05560670798869378094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-78645732729293955852015-03-13T08:54:16.025-04:002015-03-13T08:54:16.025-04:00Hardest might be crimson tide. Thanks partly to a ...Hardest might be crimson tide. Thanks partly to a typo, and partly because you need to do something different with the clues you receive. House of Hell seemed to be one of those books where death was totally random, which I don't care for much.Tristan Gallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16769219573533545742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-83778814445556751152015-03-13T06:23:09.832-04:002015-03-13T06:23:09.832-04:00I still have a huge collection of these books at m...I still have a huge collection of these books at my parents house. Steve Jackson books were always more inventive than Ian Livingstone's, but way harder (House of Hell might be the most difficult FF book).<br /><br />Nowadays i play the Android versions from Tin Man Games which are very good, except for the Starship Traveller which doesn't have the beautiful original artwork.<br /><br />Chet, Forest of Doom might well be the least good of the classic FF books, but it's also the easier.RuySanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05560670798869378094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-18622319421557631812015-03-13T05:44:56.295-04:002015-03-13T05:44:56.295-04:00I haven't played this one (the book, not the c...I haven't played this one (the book, not the computer adaptation) in decades, but I actually remember it as being one of the better ones, with great atmosphere (but lots of dead man walking situations, which was unfortunately common in these books -- House of Hell, another Steve Jackson one, was possibly even worse in that respect, but was also brilliantly atmospheric).<br /><br />Still, great review of the book (the game seems to be a straight adaptation, unfortunately missing the art because, well, 8-bit.<br /><br />In no way would I call them "RPGs", but a company called Tin Man Games has been adapting several gamebooks for iOS and Android (and Ian Livingstone's Forest of Doom is also available from them on Steam, for PC), with improved art, music, bookmarks and so on. The FF adaptations are very good, but I'd actually recommend their original gamebooks (starting with An Assassin in Orlandes) even more.Dehumanizerhttp://winterdrake.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-19086165059283299442015-03-13T02:55:16.572-04:002015-03-13T02:55:16.572-04:00Well I can't think of a better place to have h...Well I can't think of a better place to have heard this terrible news than here. RIP Terry.BelatedGamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00897424082545246646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-33984329958241757312015-03-13T02:51:01.877-04:002015-03-13T02:51:01.877-04:00The weird thing about Sonic is that it's prono...The weird thing about Sonic is that it's pronounced both ways, depending on which creature the game is referring to. It made for a lot of confusion back in the day.BelatedGamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00897424082545246646noreply@blogger.com