tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post5585009204036706413..comments2024-03-29T02:34:55.592-04:00Comments on The CRPG Addict: Legends of the Lost Realm: Out of BalanceCRPG Addicthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-39004608857777233682022-05-26T22:40:52.029-04:002022-05-26T22:40:52.029-04:00Skies of Arcadia was terrible for this: It punishe...Skies of Arcadia was terrible for this: It punished you by lowering a stat when you ran away from a fight, then had a *punishingly* high encounter rate. The gamecube port lowered it, but even the increased challenge mod I'm playing right now gives you one of a 'lower encounter rate' item you don't normally get until the endgame right at the start as it is so annoying flying around exploring without one. <br /><br />There are also mods to let you skip fights by holding a set button without being punished, as they just get SO ANNOYING. Doubly so when you are going back to explore earlier areas looking for hidden locations. Canageekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03770924810559440307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-71207543853655655192020-05-16T13:09:55.069-04:002020-05-16T13:09:55.069-04:00you get even more experience if you do the towers ...you get even more experience if you do the towers in the correct order of difficulty I think... you can tell by experience you get from killing guards. I really loved this game but i quit when i killed some friendly guy i encountered in the center tower because i wanted his powerful weapon but killing him closed off part of the tower which i didn't figure out until after i had saved and i wasn't about to start over so i quit... i even had the expansion pack Wilderlands2. I played for months and got all characters to L16 and max spells, but even then some rooms i couldn't get into and the expansion pack was ten times harder than the Legends episode!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13162320525358600169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-11741762930377161162018-12-19T12:56:36.960-05:002018-12-19T12:56:36.960-05:00Level caps are a form of static difficulty, at lea...Level caps are a form of static difficulty, at least for the end game.<br /><br />Still, there's a big difference between a system like this one where fights are unavoidable (although escaping may be an option), and something like Pillars where you can see the monsters and attempt to maneuver around them. Ultima Underworld (as another example) gave experience for exploration and quests, which made combat mostly unnecessary other than for quest items. Because you could run right past most of the monsters though, it wasn't that much of an issue with the design.Zenic Reveriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16441583549326102945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-88507237928801033582018-12-19T09:10:26.187-05:002018-12-19T09:10:26.187-05:00Pillars of Eternity had an open world with few sta...Pillars of Eternity had an open world with few static fixed points and lots of side quests. So you could choose your fights and skip a harder dungeon for later. Also character customization and party composition is a huge factor. <br />During the game, you could get more experience than required for the maximum level. This way, you don't feel railroaded or like having a static difficulty. I don't think endless grinding is required in a closed game world if it leaves enough choices. In a linear game that's different.sucinumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-2450104570564876732018-12-18T21:28:36.993-05:002018-12-18T21:28:36.993-05:00While you're not wrong, FF VIII is one of the ...While you're not wrong, FF VIII is one of the few jRPGs that are solidly on the list due to having a contemporary PC release. Best not to discuss it on the off chance that the Addict remembers this comment thread in BY1999.Gnomanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13920812227941556716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-76933509983808648582018-12-18T17:22:40.460-05:002018-12-18T17:22:40.460-05:00If done well, I can see the benefits of a quest ba...If done well, I can see the benefits of a quest based experience system, it eliminates the need for grinding. And it's definitely better than a game where most exp is gained by walking around somewhere until the roof falls on your head (yes, I'm looking at you, Ernyzf bs nepnavn oxnqr bs qrfgval).Didiernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-33745031326953869712018-12-18T10:01:24.318-05:002018-12-18T10:01:24.318-05:00Final Fantasy VIII had systems in place that disco...<i>Final Fantasy VIII</i> had systems in place that discouraged combat grinding, but that led to all sorts of other problems.thekelvingreenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01928260185408072124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-82731111389364028282018-12-17T16:08:03.420-05:002018-12-17T16:08:03.420-05:00The worst an NES RPG ever did was force you to res...The worst an NES RPG ever did was force you to rest between every battle. Now some of those Famicom RPGs are downright evil.Zenic Reveriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16441583549326102945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-27985676753746702462018-12-17T13:10:12.651-05:002018-12-17T13:10:12.651-05:00I think it worked in the Pillars games so well (th...I think it worked in the Pillars games so well (they are one my favourite RPGs) because the fighting and leveling system was well integrated into the story. I actually didn't focus very much on my character level.<br /><br />The fights were fun, but they were never there for themselves, only just for fighting. They were always part of the plot somehow. <br /><br />The Pillars games suffered from the dangerous unbalancedness you mentioned. The endboss of Pillars I was way to hard for my taste (and I did _every_ sidequest + the DLCs). The endboss of Pillars II was way to easy, finished it on the first try.<br /><br />On the other spectrum are JRPGS. There is not a single JRPG I have played were grinding was not necessary to make progress. I actually like the grinding part, if the fighting system is fun.<br /><br />Kind of totally different RPG styles. Ragnaroekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01661298801062120518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-70571617801434158262018-12-17T10:15:38.273-05:002018-12-17T10:15:38.273-05:00imo, the right approach to Temple of Elemental Evi...imo, the right approach to Temple of Elemental Evil was to start the game with 1 single character instead of the usual (5? 6?) party size. Every time you level (or every 2 levels, depending on your playstyle) add a new party member.<br /><br />This is basically saying that a party of 5 in which they were levels 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 was much more efficient than a party of 5 in which they were levels 3, 3, 3, 3, 3.<br />Pedro Q.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03572150497835442981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-38886565739344066192018-12-17T10:08:20.498-05:002018-12-17T10:08:20.498-05:00(Sorry, looks like the blog mangled the word "...(Sorry, looks like the blog mangled the word "need" that I tried to make with unicode italics.)viilanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-77159221745973356972018-12-17T10:06:43.209-05:002018-12-17T10:06:43.209-05:00Can you tell more why it worked in the game?
The ...Can you tell more why it worked in the game?<br /><br />The immediate result that I can see is that the game has a bounded and exact amount of experience in it that you can gain. (One of every monster + all the quests.) And the designer has full control of the XP curve, since they determine what monster types appear where. So if an area has no new monsters, it will grant no fight XP.<br /><br />So as far as I can tell it's basically equivalent to your XP being tied to your progress through the game. Just a little more granular and flexible where those points are.<br /><br />Benefits of tightly controlled XP curve are that the designer knows exactly how powerful the character(s) will be any given point in the game, so he can craft the difficulty to match.<br /><br />Downside is that the crafted difficulty is exactly what you get. Not all players will be equally skilled, or like equally great challenge. For some the level of difficulty may be too low, or others it may be too high.<br /><br />Benefit of optionally available XP is that players can grind to their preferred level of difficulty. They can blaze through the game, which is hard, or they can take it slow which makes it easier.<br /><br />Downside though is of course that grind needs to still be fun. Which can be hard, especially if player feels that they �������� to grind.<br /><br />Plus it means that the optimal strategy would be to grind the first enemy mobs until you reach the level cap. So there needs to be something to constrain the players' worst instincts. Many players are drawn to "optimal play" even at the expense of the experience.<br /><br />One of my favourites is to make it so repeat kills get you progressively less experience. You can control how much grinding players can do by making that dropoff curve steeper or shallower. (I guess in a way constant XP from kills and no XP at all from repeat kills are just the two extremes of this dropoff curve.)viilanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-75599769587008364212018-12-17T02:09:51.644-05:002018-12-17T02:09:51.644-05:00Pillars of Eternity has a nice system for EXP. For...Pillars of Eternity has a nice system for EXP. For fights you only get EXP for the first times you kill an enemy. Most EXP you get from quests. Normally I also like the fight => EXP more, because you can grind to overcome some difficult areas. <br />But in Pillars it was very well done.Ragnaroekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01661298801062120518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-55639795993735821732018-12-16T21:06:27.452-05:002018-12-16T21:06:27.452-05:00Oh yeah, it was clear. I was musing that, while a ...Oh yeah, it was clear. I was musing that, while a format like that is a smart and more pacifist-friendly concept in some RPGs, it doesn't really fit an 80s dungeon-crawler like Legends of the Lost Realm. The game doesn't appear to have the depth of role-playing alternatives to combat to make a system like that work, from what I can tell. If the bulk of the gameplay is combat, that's where the bulk of the XP should be also.Mentohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12666135395522594894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-51128967518427011452018-12-16T15:24:08.676-05:002018-12-16T15:24:08.676-05:00See, the 99 Berserkers isn't a good example to...See, the 99 Berserkers isn't a good example to me. Sure, it's an obvious "grind point," but you do WORK for those experience points, and the reward, while generous, isn't hugely out of proportion with the effort.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-30971163376818749322018-12-16T15:22:11.961-05:002018-12-16T15:22:11.961-05:00"I do have some admiration for games that hav..."I do have some admiration for games that have unconventional XP delivery systems." I think that's cool, too. As I hope was clear, it's the imbalance that I object to less than the fact I was awarded experience points at all. CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-84164416791455342472018-12-16T09:42:24.915-05:002018-12-16T09:42:24.915-05:00Koyaanisqatsi: the role-playing game.Koyaanisqatsi: the role-playing game.Harlandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-38489596600376202142018-12-16T06:39:26.755-05:002018-12-16T06:39:26.755-05:00Temple of Elemental Evil is a nice lesson on how n...Temple of Elemental Evil is a nice lesson on how not adapt a D&D module into a videogame and why modules need GMs to be played. While I can understand, and even agree with, the decisions the developers made the results are mostly just frustrating. It also shows what happens when there's no hand-holding at all. The first levels, fundamental, can be gained without a single fight doing mundane tasks in the starting city. There's no indication of that except that combat are all too difficult so maybe one should think of something else, like hiring that drunk guy you just met. On a table whit your friens on a game night that's fun, alone in front of a screen it's frustrating. Troika tried to avoid the trappings of the narrative of a Baldur's Gate and go straight for the barebone rpg experience. The point is that in the process the kinda forgot that the narration in a crpg does the job of the master at the table. The result is a frustrating game that required a different approach from any other crpg on the market and that many abandoned, not unfairly, before discovering all the fun that it could offer. Ronconautahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12644199312156727426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-50711874538901826892018-12-16T01:55:52.206-05:002018-12-16T01:55:52.206-05:00I really like getting exp for encounters, so I can...I really like getting exp for encounters, so I can choose to fight or haggle. I once played a pacifist run in Pillars of Eternity and barely killed anything at all, but talked and sneaked though the game - that was quite interesting. But hard to compare such an advanced engine with a game from '89.<br /><br />But I also liked the grind in Bard's Tale, I can spend an hour burning the same 69 wights over and over for whatever reason.<br /><br />Customization requires meaningful choices, so basically a well balanced skill tree. We didn't see that too often so far in this blog. But I agree, creating a character build is the best part. Can't count the hours I spent theorycrafting and writing guides for several games (like Diablo 2, which I discussed almost as long as I played it).<br /><br />Those old games lack a lot - but there are still classics which have only good parts in them, know their limits, and are quite enjoyable and others, like this one, which don't. That's why I love reading this blog :-)sucinumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14198771998880365061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-33226752124714679782018-12-15T19:58:12.779-05:002018-12-15T19:58:12.779-05:00I remember playing this when I was 14 or 15 on my ...I remember playing this when I was 14 or 15 on my dad´s computer. My understanding of english was already good enough to grasp the basics of the game and I already played some RPGs at that time like Rogue and Ultima as far as I remember. Together with a friend, as we mostly did, we also tried this one. It took a looooooooong time to get anywhere in this game! But at least it was the summer holidays and I recall it being a rather nice time, meeting every day to play and try to get further in this game. We loved the interface and the graphics of it! But still, I remember this game leaving a bad taste in my mouth for it being unsatisfying. Concerning the effort we set into it. I can´t really recall what exactly caused this but still feel there was something amiss. Sorry for not being precise, but this was really long ago. We didn´t beat it, but -as we thought at that time- we got quite far,but in the end it was not worth the work for it. It´s just a feeling from that time, I know, but maybe you can do it differently and to a more pleasing ending for you. At least I hope so! CarlKontermannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11997389997776963523noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-32661168988792383762018-12-15T17:56:00.657-05:002018-12-15T17:56:00.657-05:00With needing to equip weapons to identify them, I ...With needing to equip weapons to identify them, I really hope there's no cursed items in the gameTwibathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11872080022551062309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-21220586852269549872018-12-15T13:41:52.041-05:002018-12-15T13:41:52.041-05:00In principle, I actually prefer games that don'...In principle, I actually prefer games that don't give out any combat experience at all (unless it's a train-by-doing system). It just motivates you to look for non-combat solutions (provided the game has them, of course, which doesn't seem to be the case here) and ensured that non-combat builds don't end up vastly underlevelled compared to combat-focused ones. <br /><br />I also strongly disagree with this: "One could argue if it's even a CRPG at all, since there is no real character development, all level ups are predetermined". First, they are only predetermined if the game has no optional content. Second, if the game allows character customization on level-ups, there's still meaningful character development irrespective of whether it happens at fixed points or not.VKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-32075309664144809372018-12-15T12:46:24.111-05:002018-12-15T12:46:24.111-05:00Ah, so it was just a classic "level 1 party&q...Ah, so it was just a classic "level 1 party" hump that was the cause of the game's absurd difficulty? I remember that being a big issue with Troika's The Temple of Elemental Evil too. (Not to mention more NES RPGs than I could name.)<br /><br />I do have some admiration for games that have unconventional XP delivery systems, such as for quest completions or dialogue successes, because they usually put that system in place for players who prefer to find non-violent solutions to goals (like with Torment, for example). In a game like this where combat is both mandatory (as in, everything attacks on sight) and extremely common, it doesn't feel quite as welcome. I wonder how feasible it would be for anyone starting a new game to make a mad dash for that "you completed the tower" XP deluge square with a struggling level 1 party? Probably not very.Mentohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12666135395522594894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-32582606611726001382018-12-15T09:21:06.510-05:002018-12-15T09:21:06.510-05:00The infamous 99 Berserkers party x4 found in the B...The infamous 99 Berserkers party x4 found in the Bard's Tale?<br /><br />I think Gauntlets of Ogre strength come right out of First Edition AD&D.<br /><br />This one sounds more than a bit on the painful side. arthurdawgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-974364875621536132018-12-15T09:02:52.211-05:002018-12-15T09:02:52.211-05:00I mean, it would be about as enjoyable as any Wiza...I mean, it would be about as enjoyable as any <i>Wizardry</i>-style game without much plot. Especially given the paucity of RPGs for the Mac, I probably would have played it if I’d had a Mac in 1989.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.com