tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post2287433710011730387..comments2024-03-28T04:44:28.648-04:00Comments on The CRPG Addict: Game 130: The Caverns of Freitag (1982)CRPG Addicthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comBlogger88125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-45644803520997307322022-10-31T21:18:30.041-04:002022-10-31T21:18:30.041-04:00I wouldn't dream of calling it "objective...I wouldn't dream of calling it "objectively terrible" or even "terrible." It wasn't much of an RPG, but it was a fun action game. This was 1982, after all, and anything playable was amazing.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-42648299221673702122022-10-31T17:30:15.626-04:002022-10-31T17:30:15.626-04:00I am glad someone else remembers Erfworld. Though...I am glad someone else remembers Erfworld. Though I guess remembering it 8 years ago was a little less surprising.<br /><br />To be faiw, his name weawwy should have been Fweitag if he is a dwagon.Quarexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-49304950088213012552022-10-31T17:27:34.960-04:002022-10-31T17:27:34.960-04:00Ultima VI's character portraits were so good t...Ultima VI's character portraits were so good that they singlehandedly inspired my group of friends to start drawing copycat portraits and trying to make an RPG of our own, so it is amazing to hear someone say they were bad.<br /><br />(Yeah we got as far as me designing weapons and armor and making a font, though the guy who was going to program it IS a bigwig at Snapchat now!)Quarexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-4120795931129648322022-10-31T17:18:18.504-04:002022-10-31T17:18:18.504-04:00Here is the long-awaited random post from someone ...Here is the long-awaited random post from someone saying OMG I LOVED THIS OBJECTIVELY TERRIBLE GAME! But seriously, this game was almost certainly the first RPG I played (at the local library, years after it came out, no less), and I was absolutely transfixed by the very concept of character growth (his HITS are going up! What are HITS???) and of course the colorful and whimsical nature of the gameplay. Considering I was like 6 I unsurprisingly got destroyed even on the easiest level, but I was still sad when the library retired their Apple II a year or so later and I never really encountered the game again outside a few memories and a Wikipedia check until this posting.<br /><br />Granted, you did give it a very fair review, with the subtext being that even though it barely had anything to offer it was still a lot less frustrating to play than many other games you have covered here.Quarexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-46439758408013714422021-11-01T01:30:23.024-04:002021-11-01T01:30:23.024-04:00Hi, David. I don't know if you'll be back ...Hi, David. I don't know if you'll be back to see these comments, but thank you for offering some clarification on this old game of yours. I'd love to see what you think about my <i>Ultima VI</i> entries if you get a chance.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-83315854111105634402021-10-31T20:51:11.627-04:002021-10-31T20:51:11.627-04:00I don't think Zog can be a legitimate Doctor W...I don't think Zog can be a legitimate Doctor Who reference. Zog was a character from a 1989 stageplay which few enough people in the UK would have heard of by 1990, let alone anyone in the US. There's a more popular "Zog" reference related to Doctor Who, but it originates in 2005 (The producer made a references to "Zogs from Planet Zog" which became a bit of a fandom meme).Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09703211229982182936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-88110736415334272982021-10-31T18:24:34.616-04:002021-10-31T18:24:34.616-04:00I tried it just now, and was able to pause reliabl...I tried it just now, and was able to pause reliably by moving into a wall to generate an "OOF!" message, and immediately hitting Ctrl+C. I've added the tip to the disasm page.faddenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08329478717502116268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-16088311874161639732021-10-31T13:47:49.005-04:002021-10-31T13:47:49.005-04:00Zog in Ultima VI was named after King Zog of Alban...Zog in Ultima VI was named after King Zog of Albania. (Who had become an in-joke between my dad & me, there's a story behind that.) I didn't know there was a Zog character in Dr. Who as well, I guess I didn't see that particular season.<br /><br /> -- Dr. CatAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02520667592305511186noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-83005486141324109662021-10-31T13:39:28.885-04:002021-10-31T13:39:28.885-04:00I didn't actually have anything to do with tha...I didn't actually have anything to do with that. The introduction sequence to Ultima VI was made entirely by John Miles. When someone pointed out his Patrick Nagel art print was a copyright violation, it was switched to a Maxfield Parrish painting. Then someone discovered he hadn't been dead long enough for that to be public domain either. So Origin artist Keith Berdak offered the use of one of his art prints he used to sell at sci fi and fantasy conventions, and granted them permission to use his copyright. I was heading the writing team, I had no influence on the art. Except that Manda came into my office and looked at me right before drawing the Dr. Cat NPC portrait, so she could make it accurately resemble me, down to the leather cap I used to always wear in those days.<br /><br /> -- Dr. CatAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02520667592305511186noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-32692022664036612822021-10-31T13:35:34.503-04:002021-10-31T13:35:34.503-04:00Actually most people never figured this out... But...Actually most people never figured this out... But since I used the built-in basic Print command to put text on the screen, if you were quick it was possible to hit Control-S while the game was printing. That would effectively pause the game, using Apple's firmware pause feature. I didn't see that as a big enough problem to try to find a way to disable it.<br /><br /> -- Dr. CatAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02520667592305511186noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-88970372640117073442021-04-07T13:48:59.721-04:002021-04-07T13:48:59.721-04:00If they were VERY clever, instead of random moveme...If they were VERY clever, instead of random movement, they could have used a movement algorithm of some sort that *looks* random, but would always return them to the same position at the same time each day. That would save them the space of having both pathfinding and random movement code. <br /><br />A simple example: At the start of each hour move 1 N, then 2 S, then 1 E, then 2 W, then 1 E, then 1 N.<br /><br />Looks random, but you end up back where you started. But in a randomizer on which direction you start with, and which order the moves in, and start the move between locations after it ends, and you saved yourself the work of pathfinding. (and of course, there are many much more fancy algorithms that would do the same thing rather then hardcoding a series of steps.)Canageekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03770924810559440307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-73281069001745406142021-04-07T01:13:16.727-04:002021-04-07T01:13:16.727-04:00Incidentally, I meant to say 'wall-hugging'...Incidentally, I meant to say 'wall-hugging' above, not 'road-hugging.' Rough edges aside, it's quite fun to watch your NPCs tool off to their next destination when the right hour comes along.Gordon Cameronhttp://picturesup.typepad.com/star_comma_eightnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-30389540507613476002021-04-06T18:12:50.891-04:002021-04-06T18:12:50.891-04:00The environments in U5 are small enough that they ...The environments in U5 are small enough that they could possibly get away with using Dijkstra's algorithm, especially if your theory about pre-scripted paths is true.Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14025511634630902101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-26196451365416596222021-04-06T12:28:19.799-04:002021-04-06T12:28:19.799-04:00Yeah, pathfinding stuff is really interesting. I i...Yeah, pathfinding stuff is really interesting. I implemented a rudimentary A* algo to help with NPC schedules in a retro RPG I'm working on. (The unvarnished version has some problems, like there is a lot of road-hugging and road avoidance when NPCs pick the shortest possible path.)<br /><br />I still wonder exactly how the schedules in U5 were implemented. The paths from one location to another seem to be hard-scripted, but you also have to account for the fact that the NPC's starting square is not always going to be the same, because they are doing a random walk while they are in the same location. My best guess is that some kind of pathfinding gets them to a 'start' square and then they do a scripted path to the next location. Purely naive homing wouldn't be good enough even for that, because the NPC could get stuck on furniture.<br /><br />The pathfinding on world monsters in the Ultimas (at least through V) seems to have been pretty simple. I'm not sure any of them ever developed the capacity to walk around an obstruction to get to you. I think they were smarter in the combat mode screens, though. In fact, introducing all that terrain in combat mode in Ultima IV may have introduced some new pathfinding challenges.Gordon Cameronhttp://picturesup.typepad.com/star_comma_eightnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-29333254547902948452021-04-06T12:20:45.707-04:002021-04-06T12:20:45.707-04:00Not pointless at all. This is an area of programmi...Not pointless at all. This is an area of programming that really interests me. I was just playing <i>Assassin's Creed: Odyssey</i> trying to figure out any logic to the enemies' search patterns when you're in hiding.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-79173108419021670992021-04-03T06:55:05.068-04:002021-04-03T06:55:05.068-04:00Pointless trivia, but the algorithm most games use...Pointless trivia, but the algorithm most games use today (with varying amounts of bells and whistles tacked on) is called A* (pronounced "ay star") and it was first published in 1968. It's very versatile, but would have been quite memory-intensive in the 80s and even 90s, hence why most enemies seem a bit brain-dead in regards to obstacles.Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14025511634630902101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-17367185910150469672020-07-31T04:19:24.580-04:002020-07-31T04:19:24.580-04:00Just checking in to verify the link had been made,...Just checking in to verify the link had been made, in wake of the article, but I should never have underestimated the rigor of the Addict and his audience!Rowan Lipkovitshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08691096685515251681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-42466759914485309462020-07-29T22:00:56.391-04:002020-07-29T22:00:56.391-04:00Thanks for sharing that. I missed the opportunity ...Thanks for sharing that. I missed the opportunity to "scoop" this one because I played the two games far appart, and thus didn't have <i>Freitag</i> on my mind when playing <i>Dragon Slayer</i>. The fact that you become a "Dragon Slayer" in CoF should have been an obvious link.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-88470867744612835682020-07-29T17:47:01.576-04:002020-07-29T17:47:01.576-04:00I came here specifically to see whether anybody ha...I came here specifically to see whether anybody had made this connection after reading this article: https://medium.com/@obskyr/the-secret-origin-of-the-action-rpg-254a180079dd<br /><br />Seems like it was a direct influence. Romhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17424138564206888866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-8422804344919041022020-02-14T11:30:17.455-05:002020-02-14T11:30:17.455-05:00You can find a complete disassembly of the game he...You can find a complete disassembly of the game here: https://6502disassembly.com/a2-caverns-freitag/<br /><br />The commentary includes a full map, monster list, and explanations of various game mechanics. For example, skill level affects more than monsters: setting the level to 8 or 9 blocks a couple of passages near the Inn. You can also see the monster graphics that didn't make it into the game (see SKETCHZ).<br />faddenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08329478717502116268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-72822090695436614122018-08-20T13:56:53.029-04:002018-08-20T13:56:53.029-04:00You may already know this, but in case you didn...You may already know this, but in case you didn't, I stumbled across a review of Caverns of Freitag in the August 1983 issue of Electronic Games Magazine.<br /><br />Also, the U6 NPC portraits were great. Ahem.<br /><br />https://archive.org/stream/Electronic_Games_Volume_02_Number_06_1983-08_Reese_Communications_US#page/n77<br /><br />Arnie Katz writes: "Caverns of Freitag makes excellent use of elements from a variety of gaming genres, including the action adventure and maze-chase. It has a surprisingly decent excitement level while providing the player with a definite, singular goal to attain. So let's gather around the battered oaken table of the inn and raise a toast to David Shapiro, the designer who has brought one more mighty dragon to heel."Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06565883975144072328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-76768935143608327322016-11-09T08:44:02.346-05:002016-11-09T08:44:02.346-05:00This game does look a bit similar to Dragon Slayer...This game does look a bit similar to Dragon Slayer. They both share the concept of a little guy bumping into monsters, as well as the idea that establishing an inn in the middle of a dungeon is a lucrative business opportunity. I wonder if there's a connenction? Yoshio Kiya was familiar RPGs developed for the Apple II at the time, though he never mentioned having played this one. Riknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-35360357506410088862014-01-09T15:07:50.543-05:002014-01-09T15:07:50.543-05:00That scenario should find its way into one of the ...That scenario should find its way into one of the books in the next Elder Scrolls RPG!Gerry Quinnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04078394659680797175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-49055423063604000432014-01-09T11:21:16.895-05:002014-01-09T11:21:16.895-05:00Think about it from the shopkeeper's point of ...Think about it from the shopkeeper's point of view. The legendary Dragonborn comes into the shop wearing Daedric gauntlets, dragonscale armor, and the mask of one of the dragon priests. He puts a bucket on your head. Are you going to take it off?CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-46119135088787664952014-01-09T11:18:51.222-05:002014-01-09T11:18:51.222-05:00I was kidding. Talk all you want, but when my firs...I was kidding. Talk all you want, but when my first U6 posting repeats half the stuff in this thread, don't think I plagiarized it. I already have it half-written.<br /><br />Steve, I don't know. I've basically been plucking a random game when a slot comes up on the list. This process has had the effect of delaying games that I know I'll like, which is a good thing. It helps ensure that the end of the year isn't a bunch of wading through garbage.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.com