tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post1716855013586197346..comments2024-03-19T02:45:56.380-04:00Comments on The CRPG Addict: Game 104: Rance: The Quest for Hikari (1989)CRPG Addicthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comBlogger168125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-85360001167422950212024-02-15T11:57:36.244-05:002024-02-15T11:57:36.244-05:00Having a good Valentine's Day?Having a good Valentine's Day?Ancient Architecthttps://ancient-architects.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-63356780240911757952024-02-14T21:38:43.824-05:002024-02-14T21:38:43.824-05:00I would encourage Eyeball to read and attempt to d...I would encourage Eyeball to read and attempt to digest what Chet actually said in the review.Tristan Gallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16769219573533545742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-1427151972679371942024-02-14T11:55:37.361-05:002024-02-14T11:55:37.361-05:00I think you've found a Russian I think you've found a RussianRandomGamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14180997176123968298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-90496967098971936062024-02-14T10:46:00.720-05:002024-02-14T10:46:00.720-05:00Congratulations, I guess, for creating the exempla...Congratulations, I guess, for creating the exemplar of Poe's Law as applied to CRPG discussions.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-71851177640341630492024-02-14T10:18:26.520-05:002024-02-14T10:18:26.520-05:00As Eastern European, I would say we also good in a...As Eastern European, I would say we also good in adult games. Almost all 18+ games are made in Japan and Eastern Europe. Pick random non-japanese adult game on patreon/steam - at least 50% chance it's from Eastern Europe. Even if they don't disclose they're from Eastern Europe. Take Akabur for example - creator of the best adult games ever - like Witch Trainer (the game where you corrupt Hermione from Harry Potter - it's so fun, so good written, and art is amazing) - he's Russian, although makes games only in English. So yeah, we are not some Western boring prude moralistsEyeBall gameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05895352528368484539noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-75124524218084936032024-02-14T10:06:52.865-05:002024-02-14T10:06:52.865-05:00Disturbing storytelling in Hentai is extremely rar...Disturbing storytelling in Hentai is extremely rare. I mean actually disturbing, when things like raping are described in disturbing realistic way. Rance is clearly not one of those games. Rance games are loved by fans all around the world because the are FUN. How on Earth you can take rales in Rance seriously? I mean the plot of the most recent Rance game (Rance X, 180 hours of gameplay) - is that Rance became the ultimate king of human kind, with all leaders of all nations being his women - and he lead humanity to fight demons. If you really tell me it's "disturbing storytelling", I will just facepalm.<br />All these Western moralists should really learn the difference between reality and fantasy. Games are fantasy. EyeBall gameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05895352528368484539noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-70517052812307427032024-02-14T09:54:37.201-05:002024-02-14T09:54:37.201-05:00Nuh, you don't understand Rance. Rapes in Ranc...Nuh, you don't understand Rance. Rapes in Rance is a part of comedy, same as when Rance kicks a puppy to level up. Rance is not a "nice guy", but he's likable and charming. Americans in general are famous for being sexually boring prude moralists. You don't understand that hentai games are... well... Games! They are not real. So if you try to look beyond "oh no he rapes women", you will find how fun Rance games are.EyeBall gameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05895352528368484539noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-53909191070146282432023-08-01T16:49:33.165-04:002023-08-01T16:49:33.165-04:00It’s neat seeing someone who doesn’t like the game...It’s neat seeing someone who doesn’t like the game still take Rance critically, rather than going for the generic stuff that you explicitly mentioned you avoid. I also greatly respect that you acknowledged the whole murder that people revel in in games while condemning this specifically, given that the typical reaction is to get defensive. Gave me some things to think on. <br /><br />Rance, the series, gets far, far better as it goes on, and this one is widely considered terrible in terms of gameplay. Though Rance, the character, is still pretty horrible in the same sense he was here, so I wouldn’t tell you it’s worth it if you couldn’t put up with him. Just something amusing. Equally amusing is that these games are written by a woman. Not remotely what you’d expect for this. Hourainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-66766765845072288442021-04-30T06:16:04.832-04:002021-04-30T06:16:04.832-04:00That sounds so utterly unenjoyable... Kudos to you...That sounds so utterly unenjoyable... Kudos to you for toughing it out and not letting it break your winning streak!<br /><br />This is not intended as a slight against Japanese culture as a whole since I enjoy a lot of what they have to offer. Mainly old samurai movies by Kurosawa and Lone Wolf & Cub and such stuff as well as quite a bit of anime. But the amount of disturbing storytelling in Hentai is pretty noticeable, I'd say.Dragnipurakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17491314816320427932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-15103344413120848802021-01-17T08:25:36.103-05:002021-01-17T08:25:36.103-05:00I don't like Rance the character either, and I...I don't like Rance the character either, and I say this as someone who has looked at quite a few taboo and rape-y hentai. In my case it's the tonal dissonance; Rance is both presented as the sympathetic good guy and a rapist. When Rance rapes girls in the series it's comedy, when the villains rape girls in the series it's tragedy... In rape hentai the rapists are normally unambiguously scumbags or beasts, and I think this helps me feel emotionally removed from what's going on. It's sort of like they're dehumanized, they are zombies who instead of having an uncontrollable desire for flesh have an uncontrollable desire for sex. In that sense I am not looking at a human inflicting pain on another human, but a zombie devouring a victim carnally. In the case of beasts they are literally not humans but monsters and animals gone mad. Rance however is humanized... And personally when I see the humanity in someone acting inhumane my emotions flare up - anger, sadness, disappointment, frustration, conflicted feelings, etc. like finding out the parent you loved and trusted as a child did something horrible, breaking your childhood innocence or in this case the instinctual idealism that good people are good and bad people are bad and that's that. Of course as you would expect these emotions distract from the porn, or well, "expect" - I don't like feeling emotions while looking at porn, don't know about other people.<br /><br />It is interesting to note that I have met several women who are fans of the Rance series - they actually like Rance and wouldn't mind being a part of his harem! Adding to that, I remember reading that the Rance series from the 1st entry to the 7th was written by a woman?!<br /><br />Lastly perhaps you may find solace in the fact that in the epilogue of the Rance series, Rance X: Part 2, the children of Rance across the world unite to defeat Rance who had become a Demon King originally to protect humanity but turned evil in the end...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-64513524598438525032021-01-06T18:14:37.341-05:002021-01-06T18:14:37.341-05:00I'm not "outraged." I was disturbed,...I'm not "outraged." I was disturbed, and writing about my own reaction to the content. Notice that I didn't call for the content to be banned or advocate for any "solution" other than to not play such games myself.<br /><br />What happens to "fictional characters made out of pixels" isn't important. What is important--or at least interesting--is how art reflects societal attitudes and exposes things about us. If <i>I Spit on Your Grave</i> becomes a blockbuster and no one goes to see, oh, <i>Schindler's List</i>, that says something about our culture. It's worth talking about. If you don't want to read discussions of game content and my reactions to that content, you're on the wrong blog.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-84564533315071628022021-01-05T23:18:05.134-05:002021-01-05T23:18:05.134-05:00Why delete my last comment, Don't like a disse...Why delete my last comment, Don't like a dissenting opinion? <br /><br />Why get worked up and outraged over what happens to fictional characters made of pixels? They aren't real. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-91566134017630804092020-02-04T13:52:23.470-05:002020-02-04T13:52:23.470-05:00Rance series is actually a very sad thing as the g...Rance series is actually a very sad thing as the game world and gameplay do actually get really better in later entries to an incredible level considering how bad Hikari is. The world, were the supreme god ia a sadistic whale like thing which has created the world just to entartein himself and would destroy it if there is no war (cause world peace is boring), is actually pretty original and the lore strangely complex for an eroge game. Also the story in games likes rance 6 and sengoku is pretty good. But you have to put up with a main character who never grows behind being a total asshole and worse a rapist, who thinks that he can do anything he wants because "he is the hero". And worse still the girls usually fall in love with him after being raped.<br />There is just one good japanese eroge rpg that I can think of that dosn't have rape in and has a very good story: it is kamidori alchemy meister, an hybrid shop management strategy rpg with three distinct paths and a lot to do. Sex scenes are sometimes a bit strong for my taste, but always consensual, as long I can rememember There is an english patch to it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-81486886804920783792015-05-11T05:06:55.111-04:002015-05-11T05:06:55.111-04:00I live in the US, and never having so much as visi...I live in the US, and never having so much as visited Australia know it may be different there. As long as we can accept that violence against men and violence against women aren't fundamentally different as problems (the problem is that it's violence against people) we should be on the same page about it.<br /><br />And neither of you referred to glorification- it sounds as though you're referring more so to what could be termed normalization. I still think, that to a mature enough player to understand fantasy (and one who can't shouldn't be playing CRPGs or video games at all, let alone pornographic ones,) works such as this only normalize the fantasy of violence. In real life, there are lots of well-adjusted people who daydream about, say, punching people they don't like. I think the thing about art, is that you can <i>choose</i> what to take away from it. And if a game leads to you taking away negative attitudes about women... again, you're not mature enough to be playing said game.<br /><br />Having spent a good amount of time with both U3 and GTA3, In Ultima 3 theft seems to be somewhere between a gameplay contrivance and a necessary evil. GTA 3 is in my opinion, a satire of overconsumerism (and to a lesser extent crime and the whole "gangster" life) plus an excuse to let you basically do whatever you feel like, with whatever you can find.<br /><br />Also, when playing RPGs that will let me get away with it, I do like to try to rob and kill innocent people because they're there. The reason is because I find the entire idea to be so ridiculous (stalking NPCs and killing them for 3 gold pieces and 2 experience points- that's crossing the line twice!) not because I'm living out anything I'd want to do in real life, even if it were consequence-free.<br /><br />Also, I do fully support the addict's decision not to play the rest of the Rance games if he finds them offensive. Just because this one is a CRPG, doesn't mean it's not pornographic, just as just because a film is pornographic, doesn't mean it's not a film- but I think one attempting to chronicle film history can be forgiven for not wanting to be exposed to it, beyond than noting that it does, in fact, exist.EriChanTheRetroGamerNerdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10862547154849146963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-43806505796199141492015-05-11T03:59:33.628-04:002015-05-11T03:59:33.628-04:00I don't know where you live, but in Australia,...I don't know where you live, but in Australia, alcohol-fueled street violence (of which the majority of victims are male) gets a lot of media coverage and political attention, arguably moreso than domestic violence (of which the majority of victims are female).<br /><br />You'll note that neither Chet nor I referred to 'glorification'. The contention is that media informs and reinforces cultural norms and mores - which in some ways, is the founding theorem of the field of social psychology.<br /><br />Whether something perpetuates negative stereotypes or not has as much to do with the presentation of the story, as it does the details of the story. Despite the fact that theft is mechanically rewarded in both Ultima 3 and GTA 3, it would be hard to argue that they are presented in the same light.<br /><br />As for the 'unwilling soldier', yes, there have been plenty of unwilling soldiers throughout history, but that's a bit of a red herring. The relevant detail is how the soldiers are presented by the game, and what attitudes the conflict with the soldiers are reinforcing. Interesting games, in my opinion, are those that are conscious of these questions and use them in the narrative: The BioWare/Black isle family regularly forces players to examine some of the ethically questionable RPG tropes.Tristan Gallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16769219573533545742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-14071708599982210702015-05-11T01:13:01.731-04:002015-05-11T01:13:01.731-04:00I tried the implicit association test for gender, ...I tried the implicit association test for gender, and it said too many errors. Oh well.<br /><br />It's completely true that men are more likely to be targets of nonsexual violence, and that's something that our society likes to conveniently ignore, but that's not the core issue here. (I hope that anyone who finds Rance offensive would find it equally offensive if the genders were reversed- real sexual violence against men may not be as common as sexual violence against women, but that doesn't make it any less unacceptable.)<br /><br />The issue is the fact that sexual violence is (supposedly) being glorified, and the protagonist isn't in any way redeemed. (I would argue that only the fantasy of sexual violence is being glorified, but that goes back to my first post. And considering that there are many healthy outlets for this fantasy, including such pornography or a consenting partner, that's not a bad thing at all.)<br /><br />Would you say that Ultima III glorifies real theft because you can steal from innocent shopkeepers, and the game rewards the player with gold? How about the fact that an effective leveling tactic once you get a Wizard with 70 INT is to pick a fight with a bunch of guards, cast ROT (or whatever the 70 MP Wizard spell is, most of my experience with U3 is the NES version, which is mostly faithful but gives the spells English names) to reduce their HP to 1, and then let whomever needs the EXP pick them off for a total of over 200EXP, giving you two levels?<br /><br />Computer games do tend to feature enemies that are either willing participants, but we all know that reluctant or unwilling soldiers have been drafted to fight in real wars- how we you know the enemy soldiers aren't similarly unwilling? And many Gold Box players have gleefully tossed Fireball spells into hordes of enemies- the fact that the game encourages this glorifies a power fantasy.<br /><br />This is only anecdotal, but I would like to add that every single person I've known to enjoy these types of games- not only pornographic, but violently pornographic towards women- has been female. Men I've known tended to like more raunchy games.EriChanTheRetroGamerNerdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10862547154849146963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-44676443451737494862015-05-10T09:08:26.065-04:002015-05-10T09:08:26.065-04:00What makes you think people wouldn't have an i...What makes you think people wouldn't have an issue with Rance if he killed the women instead of sexually assaulting them? That sounds even more sociopathic, especially if the player was invited to enjoy the act of killing them!<br /><br />It's a problem whenever a message perpetuates negative attitudes.<br /><br />Generally speaking, computer games feature enemies that consist of 'willing participants'. They're bandits, invading soldiers, xenophobic cultists, predatory monsters etc etc. In these instances it doesn't appear to matter much whether the foes are man or woman.<br /><br />In the instances where the enemies aren't willing participants, it tends to receive commentary here - be it seemingly innocent royal guards, people in the wrong place at the wrong time or even prehistoric animals.<br /><br />If clearing the slums in Pool of Radiance was framed as removing ethnic undesirables, then it'd certainly be an issue. However, these 'ethnics' are warring tribes living in occupied territory - likely some of the very tribes that sacked the city 50 years prior. It's not like you're wiping out a group of orcs who are keeping to their own little village! When the PCs wander the slums, they are regularly attacked without warning - and if the player wishes, they can let the non-hostile groups flee.Tristan Gallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16769219573533545742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-24400769382525630512015-05-10T08:18:49.463-04:002015-05-10T08:18:49.463-04:00You all raise good points, but why get so angry ab...You all raise good points, but why get so angry about violence against women? Men are much more likely the targets of most nonsexual violence.<br /><br />And why is sexual violence so much worse than nonsexual? Most criminal codes treat murder as more severe than rape...but we have few games with rapist protagonists, whereas most protagonists engage in murder outside of, say, puzzle games. How many orcs did you kill in Pool of Radiance, 'clearing the block' of ethnic undesirables?Anonymous Geeknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-48147496055008277532015-05-10T05:41:05.162-04:002015-05-10T05:41:05.162-04:00If you want a personal example of social programmi...If you want a personal example of social programming, try an Implicit Association Test like this one:<br /><br />http://www.understandingprejudice.org/iat/index2.htm<br /><br />Tristan Gallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16769219573533545742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-80994402517807274992015-05-10T05:17:15.204-04:002015-05-10T05:17:15.204-04:00In over 20 years of seeing controversy over video ...In over 20 years of seeing controversy over video game violence (It sounds as though you're comparing <i>Rance</i> and similar pornographic- and yes, from reading your descriptions, it sounds as though it's pornographic- games to violent games) this is probably the closest thing I've seen to a reasonable argument that such things could actually be harmful. I still don't think I buy it (the misogynistic attitudes have to be there in the first place, so long as one is old enough to distinguish fantasy from reality, and psychologists say that nearly all people develop the ability to do so long before reaching adulthood- and if said attitudes were there in the first place, the problem is more fundamentally with the player than the game) but if anyone's going to make a reasonable argument that violent/misogynistic/etc. media have negative effects, that's certainly the angle that holds the most water.EriChanTheRetroGamerNerdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10862547154849146963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-75326341189287591472015-05-10T05:09:57.932-04:002015-05-10T05:09:57.932-04:00Even if you don't consider video games art, th...Even if you don't consider video games art, they still inform our attitudes. It's an inescapable facet of human minds: We're influenced by language, imagery, associations - no matter the source. Experiencing Rance won't do much on its own, but it reinforces that the value of women is determined by their erotic characteristics. Given that attitude is A) popular, and B) dysfunctional, it seems reasonable to criticise media that perpetuates it.Tristan Gallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16769219573533545742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-49759308794406917172015-05-09T22:41:40.940-04:002015-05-09T22:41:40.940-04:00My thesis--which deserves a much longer post--is t...My thesis--which deserves a much longer post--is that art shapes attitudes. If we're going to argue that video games are an art form, then we have to sometimes confront the fact that they influence thinking and behavior for better or worse.<br /><br />I'm not arguing something as banal as "violent video games make people violent." It's much more complex and nuanced than that. I do think that violent video games DESENSITIZE us to violence, for instance. And by the same token, I can't help but believe that video games that encourage sexual abuse of women and overall misogyny must shape player's attitudes towards women. Not in a direct way, as in players of <i>Rance</i> go out and rape, but in other harmful ways that manifest themselves more subtly.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-63215183995811219482015-05-06T08:27:40.044-04:002015-05-06T08:27:40.044-04:00He gave Prometheus 4 stars.He gave Prometheus 4 stars.Tristan Gallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16769219573533545742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-86111123538299897972015-05-06T07:02:01.514-04:002015-05-06T07:02:01.514-04:00It's commendable you for actually playing this...It's commendable you for actually playing this (and to the end no less) before criticizing it. It seems that very few of those who criticize media actually look at the media before criticizing it. <br /><br />I do, however disagree with your ideas (in short: human sexuality is driven by fantasy, and people consensually "act out" rapes, but this is not the same as a literal rape, and what happens in a game is just as much a fantasy as what happens in one's mind or what people choose to roleplay, if not moreso.)EriChanTheRetroGamerNerdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10862547154849146963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-67033291615561230172015-03-27T15:50:00.625-04:002015-03-27T15:50:00.625-04:00I didn't read the review when it was new, of c...I didn't read the review when it was new, of course, but I'm a huge Roger Ebert fan and his review of <i>I Spit on Your Grave</i> is one of his most famous. I've quoted him several times in the past when I thought his reviews helped illustrate something I wanted to say.<br /><br />I was devastated when he died. I nearly posted a huge eulogy on my blog, but I decided it wasn't the place for it. I've only seen a handful of films since he died, mostly because I can't find another reviewer whose reviews I trust as much as Ebert's.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.com