tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post1693002550538741600..comments2024-03-28T10:19:08.172-04:00Comments on The CRPG Addict: Wizardry IV: Paroled!CRPG Addicthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-55905802125523871472022-06-22T16:09:24.492-04:002022-06-22T16:09:24.492-04:00Hardly any of the original team was involved in an...Hardly any of the original team was involved in any significant capacity after III. They just continued to get the credit for the underlying programming and engine. W4 was designed by Roe Adams and W5 by David Bradley.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-17394459108407449682022-06-13T05:13:39.609-04:002022-06-13T05:13:39.609-04:00Wizardry V: Heart of the Maelstrom was the last-pu...Wizardry V: Heart of the Maelstrom was the last-published Wizardry to have Andrew Greenberg on the credits and the first to have David W. Bradley on the credits.<br /><br />(Also the last English-language Wizardry game to run on an 8-bit CPU.)Martinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-8611969307267566602022-06-12T22:10:16.132-04:002022-06-12T22:10:16.132-04:002nd thought, the amount of fan-service and self-se...2nd thought, the amount of fan-service and self-servce in this game by the authors (check out all of the bits and pieces, references to their SCA groups, especially in the endings, highlighted in the dlarchives.org w4 playthrough for examples), the "this is the ultimate test" vibe, the number and depth of the endings, especially compared to the wiz 1-3 minimalist endings... It really felt like they were writing this as if it was to be their last Wizardry hurrah. <br /><br />I was surprised to see the timeline that had W5 released as soon as the next year. Then read that it was largely done in 1986, after improving the game engine, but they held it back for two years for w4 to come out first. then w6 went a very different direction with the games. <br /><br />Since it was written last, was this their going out party? How much of the team was involved in 6?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-20182574100243780222022-06-12T19:35:54.819-04:002022-06-12T19:35:54.819-04:00I finally started working through the Wizardry gam...I finally started working through the Wizardry games in DosBox on my Android phone after never making it past Wiz1 level5 some 30+ years ago.<br /><br />Reading through the reactions here, I realized just how different I look at CRPGs now than back then. I think the biggest difference is the presence of a save game feature. You don't expect a save feature in Rogue. Telengard is fun because you're seeing how far you can get with that character before he's toasted. Sword of Fargoal is great because the first time you make it to the bottom and back out, it's a feat. Running all of those games on an emulator with snapshots and all the save scumming imaginable, it completely changes the challenge of the game. Great for experiencing a game, but obviously removes the key challenge.<br /><br />W2 and W3 were advanced scenarios to take characters built up in W1. Fascinating as they explored CRPG design, but brutal. Very DnD module-like. Some pen and paper DMs might let you reroll L10 characters after a TPK. Others start you back at L1-3 and pull out the starter adventures until you're ready to try the hard one again. I think that's the model they had with Wiz. You weren't playing through a game with save points. You were building up characters that could survive farther. If they died, oh well go build some more. TPK by jumping into the W3 rock wall trap? Just take notes and don't do that with the next party.<br /><br />Again, I think the biggest difference in W4, they gave you a Save Game feature. And a warning on the box:<br />"WARNING: EXPERT LEVEL SCENARIO!<br />The Return of Werdna is an EXPERT level scenario for experienced Wizardry players ONLY. Novices will rapidly become totally frustrated - this game is VERY difficult! If you have never played Wizardry before, you may find it difficult or impossible to finish this game. We very strongly recommend that you play the first scenario, Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord, before you attempt to play The Return of Werdna."<br />And also in the manual:<br />"... The only thing you can trust is that we have spent several years making The Return of Werdna a fiendish test for expert adventurers..."<br /><br />They built this game, quite deliberately, to kick the ass of those who mastered W1-3. So, long story long, I'm actually fascinated by the way they built this one. the save feature removed any reason for them to play nice with tough choices or random instadeaths. Dead? Reload and try again. At least we let you reload. They can't just give you a gift like that. You have to pay for it. <br /><br />That said, this is still a 1987 game with 1981 CRPG thinking. But it's consistent with W1-3. Scared to think what they would have done with those had they had a real save feature.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-73241270073295374242022-04-04T09:45:39.895-04:002022-04-04T09:45:39.895-04:00And now it's on the "upcoming" list ...And now it's on the "upcoming" list in the sidebar.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-51430994105299330262021-07-19T22:49:04.615-04:002021-07-19T22:49:04.615-04:00I played it 11 years ago. It's not like I stil...I played it 11 years ago. It's not like I still remember anything from the guide. I think I could still play it "without spoilers."CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-87412578436348532702021-07-19T19:03:30.049-04:002021-07-19T19:03:30.049-04:00Meh, if you had beaten this game without a guide y...Meh, if you had beaten this game without a guide you would officially be known as The Greatest CRPG player of all time, unfortunately you did not ! you will never get this chance again in your life, what a disappointment ! i hope this will haunt you forever ! Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18106363736623979450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-52561963612856605332021-06-26T21:55:12.824-04:002021-06-26T21:55:12.824-04:00I saw the reference to this in the comments for th...I saw the reference to this in the comments for the recent retro game you played. I actually enjoyed this game and found all but the grandmaster ending with only one cheat, a hex edit for Trebor Sux. I had a LOT MORE free time back then and enjoyed the challenge. These days I would have given up earlier than you. I ended up asking Roe Adams for a hint. I actually ended up replaying it with my notes and made it though pretty fast for the good ending. If you gave good maps it is fairly fast to get through. Level 4 isn’t too bad but levels 1-3 are a true nightmare. If you replay it having maps would turn the game from a nightmare to not bad. <br /><br />I enjoyed the game and found it somewhat interesting from a challenge and reversal standpoint. Jon Lundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05458138228943006106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-58905915896344871782021-06-24T23:29:20.007-04:002021-06-24T23:29:20.007-04:00Returning to W4 is still on a kind-of bucket list....Returning to W4 is still on a kind-of bucket list.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-27579681994530701112021-06-23T07:15:02.103-04:002021-06-23T07:15:02.103-04:00There's a part of me that's disappointed t...There's a part of me that's disappointed that you didn't come back to Wizardry IV, but I can't say I blame you. Having spent most of the last week blazing through it and obtaining all five endings (albeit with plenty of help from the internet, although I did do about 98% of my own mapping and figured out some puzzles on my own without a walkthrough), I'm glad to be done with it. There were some cool moments, like making your way up to the town and visiting all the different places from Werdna's perspective, but towards the end a lot of the battles require pure luck to beat. If the enemy casts two Tiltowaits in the same round, you're pretty much toast, so save-scumming is pretty much a must.<br /><br />I can imagine someone beating most of this without a walkthrough, and apparently some people did. Apparently Scorpia of Computer Gaming World was one of the beta testers for the game, and in her review of it, she wrote, “Bottom line: Unique, and not to be missed!” Nowadays, I think that most people are better for missing it, and reading a Let's Play would be a sufficient substitute for firsthand experience.<br /><br />If for some reason you *do* decide to come back, we'll all enjoy reading about it, I'm sure, but I imagine your time is better served pushing ahead through the remainder of the 1990s. Either way, thanks for keeping this blog going; I always look forward to future updates.Elkovskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07300584537977591552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-72767191816062766992021-03-05T19:30:25.530-05:002021-03-05T19:30:25.530-05:00A very small number of Wizardry fanatics beat Wiza...A very small number of Wizardry fanatics beat Wizardry IV before the official hint book came out. Even the hint book apparently did not contain clues to the grandmaster ending.<br /><br />However... at the time, I read rumors that most of the people who solved the game completely did it the old-fashioned way.... By reading though the data files with a hex editor.Nathanaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-10744156890406924662019-06-09T22:58:53.089-04:002019-06-09T22:58:53.089-04:00Are you kidding? This game is a nightmare.Are you kidding? This game is a nightmare.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16904247124108531693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-40921838258378217152016-07-31T13:00:54.437-04:002016-07-31T13:00:54.437-04:00I played the early Wizardry games about 10 years a...I played the early Wizardry games about 10 years ago when I was in my late twenties. I think they were never very popular in Germany, so I didn't stumble over them when I was a kid. I have to admit that for every game I wrote a simple DOS batch file which would make a backup of the scenario disk image every now and then - preventing loss of game progress by that nifty every-step-auto-save feature in case of one or more characters being killed then turned to ashes then being ultimately LOST. Forgive me, but I didn't have enough spare time and/or patience to fight through these extraordinarily difficult games without this "cheat" back then. But I was able to completely map and win the first three scenarios without so much as a peek into a walkthrough. <br /><br />This didn't work out for Wizardry IV, though. For me, this game was one of the toughest CRPGs ever designed - battle survival most of the time depends on pure luck, and I had to look up a few of the solutions to the puzzles of the upper levels. With these, I didn't even have this "Why didn't I think of that?"-feeling. I still remember that when you needed a special item to get past a certain door, in most cases this was a special item obtained at a certain location in the game - but in one occasion it was an item which was a possible reward from fighting a certain group of heroes on a certain level of the dungeon. Before I looked that up in a walkthrough, I didn't even know the item existed although I already beat that certain group of heroes multiple times. That really sucked. If you haven't watched the movie Monty Python and the Holy Grail, you were probably never able to guess what the item HHGofAuntyOck was supposed to do. <br /><br />I am fairly sure that I do not belong to the top list of computer role playing gamers on this planet, and if I can't beat a crpg by myself, that doesn't mean no one else can - but up to now I have never met anyone honestly claiming to have won this game entirely without help. The walkthroughs available on the internet about 10 years ago all seemed to have been copied from one another. I never saw the official cluebook, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was the sole source for these walkthroughs. And it is striking that all these walkthroughs contain the solution for all the different endings including the grandmaster ending. How anyone would come up with the only possible teleport destination of the hidden (!!!) 11th Level by himself remains a complete mystery to me - where in the game is the clue that such Level even exists? Ishimorinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-91225220490416849052015-08-23T16:10:01.493-04:002015-08-23T16:10:01.493-04:00Your fan retcons are fun and make sense. Re-readin...Your fan retcons are fun and make sense. Re-reading this post, I don't know exactly why I gave up on the game. This was back in the era when I insisted on playing one game at a time. These days, I'd probably spend a couple of sessions with a different game, cooling off, and then return to W4. Maybe I'll revisit it when I get to its year again.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-13243380686368748522015-08-23T16:08:21.872-04:002015-08-23T16:08:21.872-04:00Someone named "SJ" posted the following,...Someone named "SJ" posted the following, which was unfairly marked as spam. I accidentally deleted it from the spam folder.<br /><br />*****<br /><br />Another late comment, Mr. CRPGAddict.<br /><br />I agree with you on Wizardry 4 being providing interesting premise yet disappointing.<br /><br />I remember being thrilled reading about Wiz 4 in a magazine. It looked great, being an evil wizard trying to escape his prison gathering monsters. I was really impressed that I made a custom scenario for some game years later based on Wiz 4. It's about post-Wizardry 4 where Werdna regained amulet and being a evil boss.<br /><br />When playing Wiz 4, I spent hours in that 4x4 dungeon room without seeing a way out! I knew there must be something, but I couldn't find a way. Yeah, it was the priests I summoned that finally showed the way out, but I didn't realize it immediately, and spent more hours trying to find the way out again once my party was destroyed. :<<br /><br />Anyway, what amazed me most is not the use of the same old game engine, but it took SirTech so long to make those sequels using the same engine. I know programming game code is not everything about making a game, but even then, it took quite long for Wiz 4 from the announcing its development to eventual release. And what we've got?<br /><br />Wiz 4 could have been another ground breaking game after Wiz 1, with a concept of an evil protagonist, summoning monsters for companion, fighting against 'hero' parties. But the design choices to make game difficult - invisible mine field, level full of traps - seems to make it to be quietly forgotten.<br /><br /><br />By the way, I thought the tomb, or the prison where Werdna lies was his old fortress beneath Trebor's castle. The one you explored in Wiz 1 and defeated Werna on level 10. The back story of Wiz 4 tells that Werdna built his underground fortress under Trebor's castle for the ease of providing food for his minions. :p<br />I thought that your (Werdna's) minions put you onto the stone bed for eventual awakening or something.<br /><br />Another thought, I was wondering, you start on level 10, the deepest part of the dungeon. And being so-called do-gooders, I must have been pretty advanced to make it deep in any dungeon. So, shouldn't you be seeing tougher hero parties deep down than as you make your way up?<br />I think, your tomb has become a tourist attraction after your demise. The succession of do-gooders must have cleared the dungeon eventually. So, those weakling hero wannabes were on sightseeing when you came upon them with monsters! As the 'tourists' were reportedly missing from the lower part of the dungeon, the authorities decided to send parties to investigate. They sent more advanced parties after the previous ones also went missing, so you're seeing more advanced parties as you make your way upward.<br />That mine field was to prevent your remaining minions from deep down to come up scaring tourists upstairs.<br />The ziggurat was built to be a big visitor center/amusement park, but was not completed yet.<br />The level with lots of traps were actually a kind of thrill rides, hurriedly converted for serious business after all those missing tourists in the lower level.<br /><br />Kind of funny to think up these things. :>CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-53441511632576418972015-02-07T01:01:10.858-05:002015-02-07T01:01:10.858-05:00I think the only way to sanely approach this game ...I think the only way to sanely approach this game is to treat it something like I Wanna Be the Guy, which is intentionally hyper-deadly and requires nearly perfect precision. It also includes a kill counter, which you can watch roll into the quadruple and quintuple digits as you try to complete the game. In other words: embrace the lethality and accept that you'll reload constantly.<br /><br />As that's antithetical to typical CRPG methods (you ought to be able to figure most things without trial-and-error-by-death, and if you're not strong enough keep grinding until you are) it's unfortunate they wedged that kind of gameplay into an RPG sequel. The appeal is really for a different audience.<br /><br />It's also unfortunate they mixed such an unforgiving idea in with a potentially really good one, of the villain's revenge. That one could have easily merged with a more traditional CRPG and been something really enjoyable for other CRPG players. Quirkzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16409671254311123117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-15068313657948461032015-01-25T16:38:16.182-05:002015-01-25T16:38:16.182-05:00My advice for finishing an incredibly annoying gam...My advice for finishing an incredibly annoying game like this is to literally set a timer each night you game, playing it for a half hour or so before playing fun games. You will inevitably make slow progress while diffusing the pain to manageable chunks.Jeremy Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11398438801903631183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-57424957820743131912014-12-15T07:37:09.917-05:002014-12-15T07:37:09.917-05:00Oh! The phrase "Trebor Sux" is found at ...Oh! The phrase "Trebor Sux" is found at the end of the long spiel you get in Wizardry 1 when you first drop down the chute into level 10. "Blah blah blah P.S. Trebor Sux"Lizardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08934202466921935801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-29199511525384839042014-12-15T07:35:41.267-05:002014-12-15T07:35:41.267-05:00I played this game back when it came out and beat ...I played this game back when it came out and beat it (I got the good ending. I believe I actually replayed it (from a save in the castle level, probably!) and got one of the evil endings as well). But that was when I was young, lots of free time, and very few other games to play. The main problem with this game is that it's actually an Adventure Game and not an RPG. But I loved that genre too, and being that I loved anything Wizardry, thoroughly enjoyed it.<br /><br />I think the Trebor Sux password is clued from the Oracle as "The Password is your ancient battle cry." Something like that. Die hard fans of Wizardry (you know, the few this game was made for because I guess Sir Tech doesn't like money?) would easily have recognized it.<br /><br />As an adventure game, I'd say this is a great game and a real challenge. As an RPG, well...I think the CRPG Addict pointed out its many, many flaws in that respect quite well.Lizardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08934202466921935801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-11900083826648440552014-01-06T13:19:26.356-05:002014-01-06T13:19:26.356-05:00It looks like the print ads for this game have tha...It looks like the print ads for this game have that line, Trebor Sux, as one of the first lines of text. <br /><br />(http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z478/what_is_your_quest/Ads%20for%20Games%20and%20Stuff/Wizardry4_1988_ad_zps2540bccc.jpg)<br /><br />Wonder if that would have made that puzzle easier when the game was still new....old wow bastardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13219195579845781590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-54609850797426923672013-10-11T19:38:48.043-04:002013-10-11T19:38:48.043-04:00I think Wizardry IV might be the first video game ...I think Wizardry IV might be the first video game ever to have a hidden "best" ending. And boy is it ever hidden! For starters, you have to go to the rooftops of the town, walk on think air onto another roof with no indication of this invisible bridge existing, and then cast a spell which teleports you downwards a level until you reach the level *below* the one where you started.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-2809327323990802492013-07-20T15:21:54.459-04:002013-07-20T15:21:54.459-04:00I've said it in other places for similar reaso...I've said it in other places for similar reasons, but when a game is one of 1,000 you have on a list, it's hard to muster patience for this kind of difficulty and screwing-around. If I was only trying to play the 7 games on Mr. Lucard's list, on the other hand, I might feel as he does.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-22191776614597748132013-07-17T10:25:52.656-04:002013-07-17T10:25:52.656-04:00Ever since I started working my way through the ar...Ever since I started working my way through the archives of this fine blog, this is the game to which I've been most eagerly anticipating your reaction. I already knew about the game's infamous difficulty from one Alex Lucard (it seems the backwards name thing might be catching) of the site Die Hard GameFAN. You might be interested to read his rather more enthusiastic take on the game:<br /><br />http://diehardgamefan.com/2008/05/23/the-7-games-you-play-in-hell/<br /><br />I guess it makes sense that, having finished the thing (which sound like nightmarish task, from both your account and his), the game's worst offences would become the subject of fond boasts rather than vehemence.<br /><br />I find both perspectives on this already intriguing game fascinating; I'm much more sympathetic to yours, but the impulse to contradict the sympathies of saner men is probably the very thing that informs his more stand-offish style. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-75677180202560657902013-03-04T12:11:48.925-05:002013-03-04T12:11:48.925-05:00I can perfectly understand why you didn't fini...I can perfectly understand why you didn't finish this. It was made as some kind of Wizadry fanboy only game, seeing how they included actual player's parties to serve as the main enemies you encounter. And it lives up to its reputation being the hardest RPG ever created, though they obviously achieved this through unfairness like a random instant kill, what the hell were they thinking. On the other hand almost all RPG's back then are regarded as too unfair by most gamers today, so I guess they only had the best intention to give seasoned Wizardry buffs a real challenge to the standards back then, which are already feeling quite difficult for us nowadays. Well, I'd rather wished you finished other real classics like BT but that's of course your choice. Maybe you'll find some time somehow. I have to say I'd find those way more interesting than some of obscure rogue shareware clones or Wiz4, but of course it's always your choice.fireballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01094871771537115267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-7503828970087592852013-01-13T23:14:28.432-05:002013-01-13T23:14:28.432-05:00Glad to have you, Tanuvein. Keep reading: I finish...Glad to have you, Tanuvein. Keep reading: I finished V.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.com