tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post1392330170715172307..comments2024-03-29T02:34:55.592-04:00Comments on The CRPG Addict: Angband: Summary and RatingCRPG Addicthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comBlogger86125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-28512784891108194182024-02-10T11:46:14.979-05:002024-02-10T11:46:14.979-05:00I'm afraid to ask what Fangbang would be I'm afraid to ask what Fangbang would beRandomGamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14180997176123968298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-26737744829982385742023-01-06T21:02:50.739-05:002023-01-06T21:02:50.739-05:00Chester, I know you're not a Tolkien fan but f...Chester, I know you're not a Tolkien fan but for pure quality of game design, there's a Silmarillion themed *band descendent called "Sil-Q" that drastically reduced Angband's playtime down to 10 hours, is more RPG oriented and completely rewrites most game mechanics, items, skills and monsters.<br /><br />I think it's probably one of the best roguelike games I've played yet (and I have played a lot)BATTLEMODEnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-22390167134210808362022-12-09T09:35:37.521-05:002022-12-09T09:35:37.521-05:00The Xaren also has the special ability to speak to...The Xaren also has the special ability to speak to your manager.jebmakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13465842548268743147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-10044226550459288972022-12-04T16:20:22.990-05:002022-12-04T16:20:22.990-05:00I do have to say that narratively, ADOM's pupp...I do have to say that narratively, ADOM's puppy quest and for that matter bridgebuilding are pretty stupid.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-13328739051297646682022-12-04T15:05:03.171-05:002022-12-04T15:05:03.171-05:00For me, one of the strengths of Adom is that you c...For me, one of the strengths of Adom is that you can approach the early game in different ways. If you just want to get on with it, you can make a beeline for the main dungeon and most of the time you’ll survive the journey.Tristan Gallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16769219573533545742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-21925889266138879212022-12-04T12:37:50.017-05:002022-12-04T12:37:50.017-05:00One thing I will never understand is why ADOM is s...One thing I will never understand is why ADOM is so much loved. Just the thought of having to stare at that same old overworld and doing the lame starting quests for the millionth time before being two-shot by some BS enemy later on makes me physically sick. Screw you and your puppy, little girl, I'm through with you. I hope the ants get you both.<br /><br />Roguelikes should not have more than one dungeon.Tipihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11416637333851125884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-35328890600019551292022-11-18T15:20:09.741-05:002022-11-18T15:20:09.741-05:00I just want you to know, Kyle, that I appreciated ...I just want you to know, Kyle, that I appreciated this.thekelvingreenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01928260185408072124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-88467586113684444532022-11-17T06:51:07.122-05:002022-11-17T06:51:07.122-05:00GoI hasnt been in the game since version 3.x.x. I ...GoI hasnt been in the game since version 3.x.x. I won my first Angband game in version 4.2.2 but I agree mage is the strongest class. Early game is tricky because you dont have any good damaging spell and utility spells are too expensive to use, but once you get the first dungeon spellbook with manabolt and the second with the banishment spells, youre invincible.Kuniqsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-36572541180126966592022-11-16T23:55:51.172-05:002022-11-16T23:55:51.172-05:00I'm probably the biggest Angband lover out of ...I'm probably the biggest Angband lover out of all of your Codex viewers. When you inevitably go back to this game I will give one tip, which is that mages have the most success in beating the game. A straight up bruiser does great in the beginning of the game, but rarely gets far. Hybrid classes are decent throughout, but a mage is weak at the strart and a powerhouse towards the end. That's because a lot of the utility spells help your mage out, but he or she can also cast Globe of Invulnerability which makes you invulnerable to many of the special attacks you were frustrated with.Deuce Travelernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-49359710054831484602022-11-16T22:15:45.645-05:002022-11-16T22:15:45.645-05:00ADOM's partially hand designed world it why it...ADOM's partially hand designed world it why it has always been my favorite roguelike.<br /><br />I'm just more into exploring worlds than going through a randomized mechanical challenge, so it's never been a genre I got into majorly.<br /><br />Roguelikes are cool for 15 minute coffee break sessions but I never devoted more effort to them than that. Never finished one, probably never will.JarlFrankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08139422412722665286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-30818856740884609902022-11-16T06:45:47.363-05:002022-11-16T06:45:47.363-05:00Check out
https://angband.live/
to play angband a...Check out <br />https://angband.live/<br />to play angband and multitudes of variants in browser; simple name/password registration required.<br /><br />As far as versions go: this, the 3.x.x and 4.x.x are the ones with major differences worth covering. For variants: quickband (12 levels instead of 100), zangband (started the variant craze), sil (tailored for "tolkienesque" rpg experience), tome 2.x (tolkienesque, but more in a classic rpg way) are the ones interesting enough that come into my mind at the moment.<br /><br />I recommend reading<br />https://lparchive.org/Angband/<br />for people wanting to learn how to play.kuniqsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-50874719563380075192022-11-14T20:53:20.377-05:002022-11-14T20:53:20.377-05:00Thirding this! Not just Angband variants, but hone...Thirding this! Not just Angband variants, but honestly, most roguelikes would be a good fodder for a BRIEF based on their design.<br /><br />Considering that playing them 'as intended' would eat up enormous amounts of time, and even trying to play them with save scumming isn't exactly quick, doing a BRIEF might be a way to 'complete' a roguelike for this blog without holding it to the same metrics as so many other games.<br /><br />Giving a cap of somewhere around 20 hours might be enough to accurately report on it's gameplay and virtues. (And there's nothing preventing you from continuing!)<br /><br />Most other RPGs, even if they have some randomness, do still have an overall narrative or campaign that has been designed. Roguelikes are essentially built to be both infinite and un-designed in terms of a human guiding hand. (There is the design of implementing prodcedural generation, I'm aware.)<br /><br />As a fan of 'general' RPGs and roguelikes specifically, I think they are unique enough within the genre to generate their own approach. I know there's the resistance to leaving a game 'incomplete' but these are practically designed by Jorge Luis Borges; there is no 'end' to Angband, just time to start another game.<br /><br />Maybe for roguelikes, rather than finished or unfinished, perhaps a flag such as 'sufficiently explored.'Jason Mehmelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10757710662254784459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-44053849918768836032022-11-14T19:00:44.935-05:002022-11-14T19:00:44.935-05:00I've never played the early versions of Angban...I've never played the early versions of Angband at length (I dipped into frog-knows for like an hour just to see how it's different, and I've played a couple variants that branched off the pre-2010 codebase) but my understanding is that back in the day, the optimum way to play was to dive to a certain dungeon level -- I think like 25-30? -- and then park there, randomly generating the level over and over, until you leveled up a bit and had the appropriate bits of kit (I think largely stat-gain potions and poison resistance gear, which started showing up only just before powerful poison-breathers like the drolem). Among the many reasons things weren't especially player-friendly in this version!<br /><br />tetrapodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04736532124472617151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-35180460031448728462022-11-14T18:56:12.067-05:002022-11-14T18:56:12.067-05:00I'm with you on not enjoying procgen stuff ove...I'm with you on not enjoying procgen stuff overall, though also agree the implementation in these various games varies a lot, at least in their modern incarnations -- ADOM does have a relatively fixed world IIRC, NetHack has pre-designed levels like the Sokoban puzzle levels, and the best parts of Angband are the hand-designed vaults (though the randomization of the monsters and loot contained in each is what really makes them sing).tetrapodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04736532124472617151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-64035610667410824582022-11-14T16:33:08.503-05:002022-11-14T16:33:08.503-05:00It's because they borrowed your lawnmower and ...It's because they borrowed your lawnmower and haven't returned it for ages.Radianthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03866535042372152723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-27514567461132845992022-11-14T16:14:40.109-05:002022-11-14T16:14:40.109-05:00"At level 36, I think you were a bit underlev..."At level 36, I think you were a bit underleveled to be facing drolems on a regular basis." You can thank the early commenters who insisted I was playing "too conservatively."CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-45790262334664884332022-11-14T16:09:51.008-05:002022-11-14T16:09:51.008-05:00No. But come at me with acid. I dare you.No. But come at me with acid. I dare you.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-32969513787417361992022-11-14T16:07:53.819-05:002022-11-14T16:07:53.819-05:00Hard disagree, Jarl. Rogue, NetHack, and Moria/Ang...Hard disagree, Jarl. <i>Rogue</i>, <i>NetHack</i>, and <i>Moria/Angband</i> might look similar, but they play as differently as <i>The Bard's Tale</i>, <i>Wizardry</i>, and <i>Might and Magic</i>.<br /><br />I'm certainly not a fan of procedural generation at the level of <i>Angband</i>, but I think it works rather well in <i>NetHack</i>. It makes the game extremely replayable, among other things.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-40363913191023184602022-11-14T16:05:33.969-05:002022-11-14T16:05:33.969-05:00Point 1: "Game world has unique features that...Point 1: "Game world has unique features that distinguish it from other CRPGs." There has to BE a game world for it to have distinct features. Even <i>Rogue</i> at least tells you that you're entering the Dungeon of Doom or whatever. <i>Moria</i> and <i>Angband</i> are pure simulation. But even if I accepted what they offer as "game worlds," it's hard to apply the "unique features" criteria when <i>Angband</i> is essentially the same game as <i>Moria</i>.<br /><br />3. "You understand how your character and quest fit within the overall game world." I don't. What are Morgoth and Sauron in this game world? Why am I on a quest to destroy them? What are my motivations for even being in this dungeon? CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-50250574660305896892022-11-14T16:01:03.800-05:002022-11-14T16:01:03.800-05:00Yeah, that's a variance I can't justify. I...Yeah, that's a variance I can't justify. I thought I remembered <i>Moria</i> having at least a basic description of the game world in the documentation, but it doesn't. CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-57999564859817260932022-11-14T13:02:41.674-05:002022-11-14T13:02:41.674-05:00@stepped pyramids Thanks for sharing this -- that ...@stepped pyramids Thanks for sharing this -- that was my impression but I've only been medium engaged in the RL community for the past couple years. It's funny, the dynamics you describe closely match how things have been going in the interactive fiction community, which is also a kinda-obsolete genre kept alive by dedicated amateurs and that's seen a recentish revival -- the arrival of Twine, and the more personal games it inspired like howling dogs and Depression Quest, and the success of choice-based narrative games more broadly (like 80 Days, Fallen London, that sort of thing), brought lots more folks into the community and led to more thoughtful, sometimes-hybridized designs. <br /><br />There were definitely some spats around the transition in the early teens (some correlating with GamerGate, of course) but it's been a really positive shift.tetrapodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04736532124472617151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-19088290300460857232022-11-14T09:48:49.305-05:002022-11-14T09:48:49.305-05:00Being closed-source is different from being, say, ...Being closed-source is different from being, say, cryptogaphically tamper-proofed. To use your toy car example, suing your customers for disassembling the toy car you sold them is quite bad (and happens a lot in certain industries), and using tamper-proof screws is mildly antisocial, but there's no onus on the seller to also give you the design schematics; one who does so is going beyond what is generally expected by the social contract for such things.Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09703211229982182936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-58869974710200553032022-11-14T09:17:55.977-05:002022-11-14T09:17:55.977-05:00In an action game you always have at least a chanc...<em>In an action game you always have at least a chance to survive on your own skill, no matter how overwhelming the odds.</em><br /><br />This is sort of the converse of a conversation point that came up a month or two ago, that one of the distinguishing characteristics of an RPG is that you have the possibility of using mechanics like grinding to improve your character's skill as an alternative to improving your own.Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09703211229982182936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-20331799699248879732022-11-14T01:39:49.858-05:002022-11-14T01:39:49.858-05:00It's been years since I've won a DCSS game...It's been years since I've won a DCSS game (lost interest as the game kept evolving and evolving), but I still think "win streaks" are a thing. I just checked the 0.28 tournament which concluded earlier this year and someone had a win streak of 18 in a row, and didn't even win the tournament That's not a 1% win rate game.Eugenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01040874637214905870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-18307680542904133812022-11-13T23:18:40.706-05:002022-11-13T23:18:40.706-05:00Adom is a mixed of designed and generated levels, ...Adom is a mixed of designed and generated levels, which is a big part of why it feels more like a world with an identity and which you can explore.Tristan Gallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16769219573533545742noreply@blogger.com