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Friday, August 14, 2026

Game 586: Pagan: Ultima VIII (1994)

Both the title screen and the box agree: The master name of the game is Pagan.
        
Pagan: Ultima VIII
United States
ORIGIN Systems (developer); Electronic Arts (publisher)
Released 1994 for DOS
Date Started: 24 July 2026
    
I've told this story before, but I basically took a break from almost all gaming starting around 1991; partly because I wanted to actually finish college; partly because I stupidly bought a Mac in 1993, not realizing there were virtually no games for it; partly because Irene and I started dating. All of these things were rectified by 1998: I had graduated; I had a proper Windows machine; and Irene had discovered that you date Plan A and you marry . . . well, a CRPG Addict.
   
On my first trip to CompUSA at the end of this dark period, I bought a Might and Magic compilation and an Ultima compilation. I was so eager to catch up on what I missed in Britannia. At that time, I had never even finished Ultima VI: The False Prophet. I damn near wept at the opening strains on the title screen of Ultima IV. I loved Ultima V just as much as I had a decade earlier. I enjoyed Ultima VI. I gaped at Ultima Underworld. It took me a while to get used to Ultima VII: The Black Gate, but I ultimately made peace with it. I couldn't finish Serpent Isle. And I bounced hard off of Ultima VIII. I didn't get through more than 15 minutes of it. I hated everything about it. Because of it, I never even looked at Ultima IX when it came out. Nearly 30 years later, I don't remember precisely what I balked at, so I'm curious to see whether I have the same reactions this time. I hope not, because I have to finish it.
     
I don't think this guy would have fit through that Blackrock Gate.
       
The cinematic opens where Ultima VII: Part Two - Serpent Isle (1993) left off. You may recall that in that game, the Avatar follows the spirit of the Great Earth Serpent through the Wall of Lights and into the Ethereal Void. There, he watches it take its place between the Order Serpent and the Chaos Serpent, restoring balance to the universe (or, at least, Serpent Isle). But before he can enjoy his victory, the giant red hand of the Guardian emerges from the void and grabs him. The Serpents are apparently powerless to stop this, and they're the gods of an entire world, so it makes one wonder how the Guardian needed a bunch of cultists to build a Black Gate for him to visit Britannia in the previous game.
   
Pagan begins with the guardian's hand thrusting through a pentagram, then opening to reveal the Avatar standing on his palm. "You have been a thorn in my side for far too long, Avatar," the Guardian says in a reverberating bass. "Your two worlds will be crushed, Britannia first, then Earth. I shall parade you before their conquered peoples as the fallen idol of a pathetic ideal." He turns his hand over, dropping the Avatar through the clouds and into the ocean near a volcanic island. "I banish you to the world of Pagan. No one here knows of the Avatar." Nice to get the banallure out of the way in the beginning.
     
Kind of wish I weren't wearing a full suit of armor.
          
Ever since Ultima IV's The History of Britannia as Told by Kyle the Younger, the Ultima series has been famous for its epistolary manuals. I still think the manual for Ultima VII: The Black Gate is the best piece of game documentation that we've seen through 1993, with the story of Britannia told in a beautifully subversive way. It's thus no surprise that Ultima VIII comes with The Chronicle of Pagan as written by "Bentic, a humble scholar and student." I have to admit that I rolled my eyes at it and lost patience a bit as I read it. Is that because it feels like the Origin team was just going through the same old motions, or is it because I let my previously-negative view of the game cloud my perceptions? I'm not sure. I'll just say that it feels a bit less inspired than previous Ultima manuals, as if someone was just checking off a box that said: "Write game manual from the perspective of someone in the world."
    
The summary of the backstory is that the first inhabitants of Pagan were known as Zealans, and they worshiped gods called Ancient Ones, including Amoras (goddess of love and joy), Odion (god of strength or something like it), and Apathas (god of logic). I say "including," but that might in fact be the entire pantheon. I'm not sure. The Zealans were united under a war chief named Khumash-Gor, but his empire fell apart after his assassination. Sometime thereafter, residents started hearing whispers in their minds from someone called the Guardian. The Guardian told of the coming of a Destroyer who would, well, destroy the land with earth, water, air, and fire. The Zealans could avoid this fate by turning their worship to those very elements. Some, but not all, of the Zealans joined this new cult, raising an enormous temple. Their faith gave birth to four elemental titans: Lithos, Hydros, Stratos, and Pyros. I'll let you figure out which lord goes with which element.
      
This all feels a bit cribbed from Might and Magic II.
          
A civil war began between the Zealans who worshiped the old gods and the new "Pagans." (Seriously, that's even worse than having the world inexplicably named "Pagan.") The Pagans won this war, culminating with Lithos sealing the recalcitrant Zealans in the Lost Vale. That's going to become important later. But no sooner had the Pagans achieved victory than the Destroyer appeared in the sky. "[His] malevolent yellow eyes glared out across the land." He summoned lighting, storms, floods, cyclones, earthquakes, and volcanoes. Eventually, the titans united and destroyed the Destroyer. "The world that remained was pitted and scarred, a vast wasteland with a smattering of island chains." The survivors gathered on the largest island, Morgaelin, to reconstruct their civilization. The clouds the Destroyer summoned never went away, so the world is in perpetual dimness.
     
(I would bet a week's salary that the being we know as the Guardian is not in fact the Guardian of Bentic's history. I'm betting the Guardian was the Destroyer and that he stole the Guardian's identity at some point. That raises the question of the identity of the original Guardian. It has to be someone we know, like Lord British or the Time Lord. Don't spoil it for me either way, please.)
      
This would be a good place for the story to end, but it doesn't. Instead, the titans turned evil, demanded sacrifices, and went to war with each other. The short of it is that four different heroes dealt separately with the four elemental lords, their efforts resulting in the creation of four schools of magic: necromancy (earth), tempestry (water), theurgy (air), and sorcery (fire). There's a lot more in this section, but I'll reference it as I encounter things in-game that make use of the additional lore. The story concludes by saying that we are now in the Fourth Epoch; the elemental lords are "appeased or controlled"; and "people are free to live normal lives."
       
From the manual, the symbols of the elemental lords.
       
At this point, the book has a section on Britannia, featuring stories that supposedly originated with an old woman named Mordra. A check of my notes reveals that Mordra was the healer in Skara Brae before a magical accident killed everyone, Mordra included. In that game, she helped the Avatar with the ritual that destroyed Horance the lich. It's hard to imagine that this is the same Modra since she was a ghost in Ultima VII and thus presumably couldn't have traveled to Pagan to tell a story that includes the events of Ultima VII. The manual suggests that she only knew the events through Ultima VI, so perhaps she visited Pagan, told the history of Britannia, and returned. Or maybe she came from Pagan in the first place. In any event, the whole section is just the obligatory history of the Ultima series from Mondain through Batlin and the Fellowship. I don't know whether it's there to orient new players to the universe or whether it will actually have some relevance to the plot of Pagan.
 
It's worth noting that we've had a couple of references to Pagan before, one in Ultima Underworld II and one in Serpent Isle. The latter was the longer one. The Avatar meets a blind hermit named Morghrim who explains that he is from Pagan, and that the Guardian invaded his world and burned Elerion, the great world tree. This event is not referenced in Pagan's backstory. Perhaps there will be a reference to it later, but it would be entirely on-brand for Origin to retcon lore written only one year previously. 
            
Our previous experience with someone from Pagan.
         
Let's move on to the game itself. Character creation is nothing more than giving a name. There is no option to select any Avatar except the blond male one, which is a major step backwards, although clearly this guy's been the canonical Avatar for a few games now. 
   
The game begins with the Avatar waking up on an unfamiliar shore, in a fisherman's camp, a crackling fire having dried his wet clothes. The fisherman, Devon, addresses the Avatar by name (I went with "Gideon," my standby) and sheepishly admits that he went through the Avatar's logbook, which I didn't even know I was keeping. He explains that he pulled the Avatar up in one of his nets. "You are welcome to stay with me for as long as you need," he says, "until you wish to head to the city." As he turns away, he mentions a crowd gathering on the city docks. "That can only mean trouble." He also has a few things to say about Lithos and Hydros, but they mostly repeat what's in the manual, which I'll cover later.
     
My first dialogue options.
        
The interface isn't quite as different from Ultima VII as I thought I remembered. It uses the same northwest-facing oblique view, though rotated a bit more on both axes to give greater depth to the perspective. Most of the same keys work: Z for stats and wearable items, I for backpack, C to enter combat, and so forth. What does not work is any movement with the arrow keys. It has to be done entirely with the mouse, which is extremely unwelcome. The right mouse button causes the Avatar to mince along, walk, or run, depending on the distance of the cursor from the figure. The left mouse button is used to grab things, use things, and talk to people. Both mouse buttons together jump.
         
Running, jumping, suicide.
        
The ESC key brings up the game options, including "Read Diary" and "Write Diary," which turn out to be the game's clumsy way of saving and reloading. I thought they might activate an actual diary at first.
   
The Avatar is depicted wearing a full set of armor (boots, helmet, gauntlets) and either an ankh pendant or an ankh emblazoned on his tunic. In fact, a trip to the equipment screen shows that he doesn't have anything. (He must have ditched it so he didn't drown.) He starts the game with 15 strength, 15 intelligence, 15 dexterity, and 30 hits and mana.
    
The Avatar fights the power.
        
While meddling with the jump and movement controls, I soon discover that despite a lack of armor, the Avatar sinks like a stone when he enters water—that's instant death. I also manage to kill myself by wandering into Devon's fire. The game is a bit insidious when it comes to character death. It makes you wait. There's a pause of about 10 seconds between the death and the appearance of a gravestone and the ability to reload. I've often asked for this kind of thing, to make death and reloading a little less cheap.
         
How does anyone here know what "the Avatar" is?
     
At this point, I should mention that I'm playing the game version purchased from GOG, which combines features from several previous releases and patches, including the extra audio that came on the 1994 CD-ROM release, the later 1994 "Pagan Speech Pack," and a 1995 patch that trivialized the game's famous jumping puzzles, although the original version was apparently so annoying and buggy that no one minded the reduction in challenge. I was still hoping to at least experience the original version anyway, but I'm having trouble discerning which of the versions available online are "original." In the meantime, I'll just play this one and maybe compare it later.
   
I think I'm a minority on this, but I don't like the graphics. I particularly don't like the black outline around the Avatar, the NPCs, and most of the interactable objects. The figures strike me as a bit too . . . I'm having trouble finding the right words here. "Soft." "Rounded." "Blended." Note how in the graphic below, you can't really distinguish the character's boots, or whether the ankh is a pendant or something embroidered on his chest. They would have looked good in 1994, sure, but these days, I'd prefer something actually detailed or completely abstract, rather than this weird, ungainly doll wandering across a matte painting.
      
The Avatar stands there and takes my insults.
            
As for that background, yikes. It feels like a huge step back from Ultima VII. The shoreline here looks nothing remotely like a real shoreline. The patterns of the rocks and forest floor are just blobs of color. I'd rather have the grasses and ruddy forest floors of its predecessor. 
    
Getting back to the game, I head west and then north, where I find a dock with a couple of barrels and my first items: a dagger, a keyring, some wine, several mushrooms, and a scroll written to "Most Honorable Lady Mordea," warning that the Skull of Quakes "has been removed from the upper catacombs."
       
Five minutes into the game, and I already can't find anything in my backpack. The interior space is even smaller than in Ultima VII.
      
Up on the dock itself is the "trouble" that Devon was talking about. A bunch of people stand around a man kneeling in front of an executioner's block. From subsequent conversation, he is named Toran, and he's been accused of "blasphemy against our Lady Mordea and sentenced to death by beheading." (Lady Mordea is the ruler of Tenebrae and a Tempest.) Toran expresses confidence that he will meet Lithos honorably, but Mordea tells him that his body will be cast into the sea, so in death he will be ruled by Hydros rather than Lithos. "This is forbidden, lady," a guard named Tarna notes. "The Ritual of Interment is sacred." Mordea tells him to shut up and then tells the executioner to get on with it. In a gruesome animation, the executioner chops off Toran's head, which rolls off the dock and into the sea and is promptly consumed by a sea monster.
     
The grisly scene. Are those carved skulls all along the edges of the dock? That's morbid.
       
Mordea and her entourage walk off the dock. Tarna the Guard demands to know who I am and what I'm doing there. I decide to be ornery and tell him that it's none of his business. "You are sadly mistaken," he says. "For every moment you spend in Tenebrae, what you are doing and where you are doing it is exactly my business." He gives me two more opportunities to explain myself, but I refuse both times, so he attacks me. I haven't even equipped my dagger yet, and even with it, I don't think I'd be any match for this guard with his bardiche. I'm soon dead.
      
This guy should work for ICE.
      
I guess I already have to explain stuff from the chronicle. At the beginning of the Third Epoch, Lithos wouldn't cut it out with the earthquakes. So a hero named Moriens went to bargain with him. Lithos agreed to stop the quakes if the people of Pagan would serve him in death. Ever since then, when Pagans die, their bodies go to Lithos, and they serve him as undead workers indefinitely. That must be the worst bargain ever struck. I'd rather die in an earthquake than spend eternity serving an insane earth god.
       
Maybe it's just their bodies that serve him. That would make more sense.
       
Meanwhile, Hydros (also known as the Lurker) was still battering the land with storms, one of which killed the beloved of a necromancer named Kalen. Lithos told Kalen about Blackrock, which Kalen used to trap Hydros in her temple. He planned to kill her, but she agreed to give magical powers to him and the subsequent line of tempestry practitioners if he'd let her live.
   
On a reload, I go east from Devon's camp instead of west. There are some mushrooms that look like I should be able to pick them up, but I can't. I kill a couple of spiders and small enemies called skellots with my fists; these are not among the creatures described in the manual. Combat involves clicking repeatedly with the mouse on a moving enemy while trying to face the character the appropriate direction. Maybe I'll get used to it, but I don't care for it in these initial stages.
      
My first taste of combat.
      
I soon come across a high, impassable wall. A pile of bones at the base has a fire gem within them. I follow the wall a distance to the northwest until a large portcullis appears with a winch at its base. Another guard with a bardiche demands that I explain my presence. This time, I introduce  myself (I don't have any option to do otherwise), and he gruffly notes that Mordea is in a bad mood today and suggests I "see for myself" at the dock. Trying to manipulate the winch gets me nowhere. 
     
Why is "Get that polearm out of my face" not an option?
         
I wander around some more but find nothing, and it becomes clear that the only way to proceed is to go to the docks. I watch the execution again and this time answer the guard's questions. I tell him my name, that I come from another world (he doesn't like that), and that my business in Tenebrae is to find a way to return home. He tells me I can go about my business. He says he's going to escort Toran's grieving widow from the docks, but he doesn't do that. He just wanders around while the woman remains kneeling by Toran's corpse.
      
Frankly, my dear . . .
        
There is no sense of any passage of time so far, partly explained by the backstory, although the graphics don't suggest perpetual darkness so much as perpetual cloudiness. Despite the presence of food items, the Avatar doesn't seem to get hungry. I don't necessarily mind these deletions from the previous Ultimas, but they are emblematic of the many mechanics that Origin simplified for this release.
   
The city gate is now open, so I stride into Tenebrae. The manual calls it "The City of Eternal Twilight," the only city that still exists on Morgaelin and perhaps in the entire world. The Great Palace is Mordea's seat of power.
    
Even though I haven't made much progress, I'll wrap up here and explore Tenebrae next time.
   
Time so far: 1 hour 
    
****
    
Next entry in this series
    
For further reading:
  
  08/14/2026

147 comments:

  1. >Note how in the graphic below, you can't really distinguish the character's boots, or whether the ankh is a pendant or something embroidered on his chest.

    I wonder if some of this is the color-blindness. It's been very obvious to talk about the influence when you have two potions that look identical that aren't supposed to, but I'm wondering if there's some more subtle effects that don't get talked about because people don't even know there's a difference. It doesn't look _great_ in the respect you're talking, but it isn't terrible either.

    The shoreline is deeply weird but I think they were also trying to make Pagan look different and unsettling.

    I never made it past Pagan five minutes (and I loved everything up to here, including Serpent Isle) so I'm basically going to be in agreement with you, though.

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    1. I really like Ultima VIII, I liked its graphics, its Gothic vibe, how smooth it all was. I liked the almost permanent sense of danger, I loved the exploration and how you could climb everywhere. I had 2 regrets, but they would be spoilers.

      I had only played (and loved) U7 before, so I had probably a lot fewer expectations on what the series was about.

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  2. Then everything changed when the fire titan attacked. Oh wait.

    Speaking of "cribbed": I feel that the plot from Pagan is largely copied from Serpent Isle. In SI, the Avatar is already in a world where nobody knows him or his virtues, and nothing in SI mentions any way back to Britannia. Va frecrag vfyr, lbh raq hc znfgrevat gur qvfpvcyvarf bs gur napvrag pvivyvmngvba va beqre gb nfpraq vagb gur nrgure, naq gur rknpg fnzr guvat jvyy unccra va guvf tnzr.

    And visiting a world ruled ("protected") by the Guardian, you've also done that in UU2. Oh, and starting the game with a bloody decapitation, Ultima 7 did that too.

    I find this development surprising; it makes me wonder if Pagan was originally intended as an Ultima at all (like the first Underworld game). Regardless, vg zrnaf lbh pna qrpyner gur ragvergl bs rvgure frecrag vfyr be cntna gb or erqhaqnag svyyre, naq cebprrq fgenvtug gb hygvzn avar juvpu vf gur ybtvpny phyzvangvba bs gur thneqvna gevybtl.

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    1. V nz abg fher ubj zhpu V nterr jvgu "ybtvpny" tvira Hygvzn Avar'f fgbel...

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    2. It was intended as Ultima VIII from the start. They wanted to focus on visual and audio presentation, and Richard Garriott was very inspired by the fluidity of motion in Prince of Persia.

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    3. I find it funny that Prince of Persia's animation is famous for its use of rotoscoping, and then RG draws inspiration from that by... NOT using rotoscoping.

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    4. I guess, this is actually what Ultima IX did. Znqr vg erqhaqnag. Rkprcg sbe Qhcer qrnq, Hygvzn 9 pbhyq whfg sbyybj Hygvzn 7 onq raqvat.

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  3. Despite my criticism of the plot, I hold this game to be a technical marvel for its time, with its smooth scrolling world, twice the frame rate of Ultima 7, and ludicrous object count.

    The original Guardian, as noted in Ultima IX, is lbhe crefbany qnex fvqr, gung lbh pnfg bss jura lbh orpnzr gur ningne onpx va hygvzn sbhe; nygubhtu guvf gheaf gur jubyr urcgnybtl vagb n funttl qbt fgbel.

    Design notes point out that the original intent was for the Guardian to be gur shfvba bs gur funqbjybeqf vafgrnq, ornevat va zvaq gung gur funqbjybeqf pnzr sebz sentzragf bs zbaqnva'f trz bs vzzbegnyvgl, nyy gur jnl onpx va hygvzn bar.

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    1. Agreed on the engine - when they reused it for action games (Crusader: No Regret and No Remorse) it actually worked really well!

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    2. Okay, I ROT13'd that and am regretting it because it's SO stupid it makes me like the Guardian less. Damn you, Origin! DAMN you!!!

      As far as failing to stay consistent with what was written one year ago, Mors Gotha in Underworld II made it sound like Pagan was the Guardian's home base.

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    3. the Crusader games were great, and they definitely made the most of the engine for that.

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    4. Interesting. I never like the Crusader series and did not go far, but finished U8 I think twice.

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    5. @Man of Stone, wait till you play Wizardry 8 (if you haven't yet) and find out who Dark Savant really is.

      TBH, I have always found the Guardian kinda cringe, irrespective of how his backstory was described. Though a large part of it could be just his graphical depiction - giant red apeman just doesn't scream "cosmic horror" to me.

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    6. I think the Guardian was intended to be a guy who sucks but just has unknowable powers and origin. Like his motivations are transparent, and they're petty and lame.

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    7. The Guardian's look and concept seem inspired by DC's Darkseid.

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    8. I liked the Guardian as an alien transdimensional being, who manipulates people into his established religions... rather than lbhe yvggyr oebgure jvgu n tehqtr.

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  4. The shoreline is made to look like a volcanic island, it's all shades of grey, rock not dirt. Keeping in line with the titans upheavals of the lands I'd assume. I actually liked the world graphics in Pagan, I felt they game the game the proper atmosphere. I didn't care much for the singular Avatar depiction, but there were so many frames of animation they didn't want to put effort into drawing other figures.

    I managed to play the unpatched version of this about 10 hours in before finally giving up due to the jumping mechanics. I never restarted the patched version so looking forward to seeing this playthrough.

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  5. The shoreline is made to look like a volcanic island, it's all shades of grey, rock not dirt. Keeping in line with the titans upheavals of the lands I'd assume. I actually liked the world graphics in Pagan, I felt they game the game the proper atmosphere. I didn't care much for the singular Avatar depiction, but there were so many frames of animation they didn't want to put effort into drawing other figures.

    I managed to play the unpatched version of this about 10 hours in before finally giving up due to the jumping mechanics. I never restarted the patched version so looking forward to seeing this playthrough.

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  6. This is the exact point I fell off of the Ultima series as well, and to this day I've never wrapped Pagan, nor tried Ascension. Did nearly get got by "Shroud of the Avatar" though, but for a bounced paycheck...

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  7. >I think I'm a minority on this, but I don't like the graphics.
    To me among the many unwelcome changes they made was this soulless render graphic style. I have to admit it works in Crusader though.

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  8. It must hurt to see such a longstanding and trustworthy companion eventually turn his back on you, so to speak.

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  9. >There's a pause of about 10 seconds between the death and the appearance of a gravestone and the ability to reload. I've often asked for this kind of thing, to make death and reloading a little less cheap.

    Use the 1990-ish 486AT and the pre-patched version of Ultima VIII and it is no longer "a little less cheap."

    You died a lot trying to jump across stones and I recalled that I kept rebooting my computer (Ctrl-alt-del) and almost threw my monitor in frustration.

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    1. I mean, the phrase "Death shouldn't be cheap" applies to both directions. It shouldn't come along arbitrarily, nor should it be easy to recover from.

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    2. I might say that death shouldn't be cheap in the sense that death should carry a value. I'm generally not in favor of "You screwed up and died, and the game is therefore going to punish you by taking away your fun". As I get older, more and more, I realize that the whole point of a game is to be FUN, and it took a very long time for game developers to build up a mindset of "This game's job is to work with the player to generate fun" rather than "This game's job is to dispense fun only as a rare reward for a player being good".
      Particularly, in an RPG, if I die in a battle, it should mean "You weren't ready for this. Go back a bit to a place where you have an opportunity to prepare better." I actually think that's a good general design guideline in all genres: if I die in a platformer, send me back to a part of the game where I can practice the critical skills. If I die in a bullet hell, send me back to a place where I can ease into the right groove for what's coming next. Older games sometimes tended to proceed from a philosophy of "I, the developer, have bested you. You must pay PENANCE for your failure. You will be allowed to have fun again only once you have atoned."
      I guess a game that was theoretically optimized perfectly would be able to judge, when you died, exactly what kind of mistake you had made, and send you back exactly to the right place for you to address that shortcoming. If you died because you were under-leveled, it would send you back to a good place for grinding; if you died because you had the wrong equipment, it would send you back to the nearest item shop, etc. (I think actually doing a mechanic like that would probably be annoying, but the philosophy of it is interesting)

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    3. What Ross describes in the last paragraph sounds absolutely awful to me. If I die in a game I want to assess what went wrong and figure out how to address it myself, not have an overbearingly hand-holding game immediately tell me what it wants me to do - especially as that sounds like it would crimp alternative playstyles in the face of such prescriptive measures.

      Personally, what I most enjoy in a game is overcoming a difficult challenge, and I've long held that for a challenge to truly be worthwhile there has to be a real possibility of failure; if victory is a foregone conclusion why bother going through the motions? It's for this reason that I despise the aggressive checkpointing that some laud - when death sets you back as little as possible so you can bash your head against the obstacle over and over until you get through - perhaps by sheer chance - and are then immediately checkpointed so you never have to do it again, there's basically neither a chance of ever actually failing nor was there ever really a challenge there to overcome. I haven't actually raised myself up to the point of being able to deal with the challenge, I'm just getting lucky and getting a firm handshake and pat on the back for it.

      Now, this isn't for everyone, but these sorts of discussions always seem to carry the silent premise that everyone shares the same idea of what makes a game fun and that the trend of games punishing failure less in favour of ensuring regular progression is universally an improvement for everyone, so I want to voice my dissenting viewpoint.

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  10. Add me to the "didn't finish Pagan" list, but I did like the Lovecraftian vibe. The beheading at the beginning's essentially a sacrifice to Dagon.

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  11. There's a few things that I love about Pagan, one of which you've already seen, that intro sequence! I think I played this in about 1995 and it was very impressive at that point. I must have seen it so many times it's burned into my brain.

    The other good things you'll see in time, but I did quite enjoy this initial starting point. They tried their best to hook you in with a tyrannical ruler and a lot of strange new things, and it mostly worked for me.

    Of course the bits that don't work are also already apparent, mostly to do with the movement and the inventory, and I found the combat really poor.

    I only finished this game I think by cheating, zhpu yvxr va Hygvzn 7 gurer'f n fcrpvny ebbz lbh pna svaq juvpu unf raq tnzr vgrzf naq inevbhf bgure guvatf gung znxr gur tnzr sne rnfvre.

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  12. I haven't played any Ultimas until current century, so this is a purely hindsight view, but the whole series always gave me the feeling that Origin never really figured out the RPG part of it. They were great at creating gameworld and filling them with activities, but not at differentiating character concepts and defining them through character stats: all Avatars were meant to be jacks-of-all-trades and play more or less the same. So the series evolution more and more towards action-adventure (complete with U9) seemed only par for the course.

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    1. U5 had very solid RPG mechanics for its time that were a significant improvement on U4, but that seems to have been an artifact of that specific set of project staff because we all know what direction the series moved from there.

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    2. Origin's slogan was "We create worlds".

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    3. The later Ultimas (4-6; 7 went in a different direction) were really good RPGs, middling CRPGs, and somewhat adventure gamey with puzzles. I actually didn't realize the RPG/CRPG split until I started reading this blog and it helped things make a lot of sense.

      RPGs focus on the plot. CRPGs focus on the numbers and building characters. Adventure games have you click pixels to open doors.

      With that in mind, I loved U4 and U5. U4's focus on roleplaying made it a breath of fresh air at the time, and U5's world was enormous. Yes, there were dungeons where you played hunt the pixel, but it felt like you were inhabiting a world. U6 still had this but the shift to a single zoom level made that world oh so much smaller. The plot seems trite now but it was still a game where you didn't just go forth and slaughter - and that was really cool.

      At the time I bought into the myth of Lord British and the guy that created all these. Looking back, that followed the much more familiar path - famous person that gets the credit and the anonymous people that held them in check. Richard Garriott wanted a game where you'd bake bread. I wanted a big world filled with interesting NPCs and a story to puzzle out.

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    4. I've played Ultimas 1,3,4, and 6 myself. I found that in 3,4, and 6 combat would just go on for ages while providing minimal tactical/strategic decisions. You were basically just going through the motions of combat while mentally counting down the rounds until you can finally cast another magic missile.

      The Ultima games have tons of cool innovations, but I felt that the combat of the Ultimas never caught up to that of the first Wizardry. I've beaten Wizardry 1 a couple of times, but I can't even get close to the end of the first act of an Ultima before becoming annoyed at all the combat and giving up.

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    5. It's funny how people on this blog keep disparaging the entire genre of adventure games despite (apparently) not having played more than a token amount of it.

      *Bad* adventure games have you click pixels to open doors. *Good* adventure games have focused on plot for years now, and more so than most tabletop RPGs. For example, LOOM, or basically any 90s adventure game by LucasArts.

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    6. I agree with the sentiment on adventure games, but I am mildly sad that your go-to reference are the 90s adventure game. There has been a throng of excellent point & click in the last 10-15 years; in my opinion
      - the best "serious" P&C of nowadays are better than the best "serious" P&C of the 90s,
      - the best "comedy" P&C of nowadays are only slightly inferior to the best "comedy" P&C of the 90s.

      Delete
  13. I'm gonna go out on a limb and predict that even if you end up not liking this one you'll still prefer it to Serpent Isle.

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    1. As much as I prefer the first 25% of Serpent Isle to the first 25% of Pagan. I've finished Pagan multiple times. And finished Serpent Isle zero times.

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    2. I'd prefer Desert Bus to Serpent Isle if it was half the length.

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    3. I would love to see your BRIEF on Desert Bus! Although you may have to conclude that it is not, in fact, an RPG!

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    4. I can't think of much that misses the point harder than a BRIEF of Desert Bus...

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    5. Not sure why so much hate to Serpent Isle. Yes they could tighten the game and plot by cutting like half. And vrrbose conversations.... But at the same time it has proper (and very interesting and tragic) lore. Walkimg through the dead cities gave me goosebumps back then. And the scroll behind the door... so heartbreaking. But perhaps that's due to my training as a historian.

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    6. I would add that there are enough plot twists in Serpent Isle to make the game more interesting. While as for Pagan... does it even have a plot? ;)

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  14. "I've told this story before, but I basically took a break from almost all gaming starting around 1991; partly because I wanted to actually finish college; partly because I stupidly bought a Mac in 1993"

    I got my first home computer, a Mac, in 1993 or 1994, which is what started my love affair with video games generally and CRPGs in particular. But obviously, it was for the most part a completely different experience from the games you'd be able to play on a PC (as I learned very quickly when my friends got those instead of Macs). I've still never played many of the staples from the PC culture, including Ultima (I was vaguely aware that the series existed, but I didn't really know anything about it), so I really appreciate your insight into the experience. Conversely, I'm also excited over the next few years to see what you make of some of the MacOS staples that I remember, even as this site has taught me that a lot of the mechanics I thought were so innovative had a much older pedigree...

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    1. "Conversely, I'm also excited over the next few years to see what you make of some of the MacOS staples that I remember, even as this site has taught me that a lot of the mechanics I thought were so innovative had a much older pedigree..."

      Agree, as a former nineties MacOS user, the Exile games and Cythera, particularly, will be interesting. Realmz as well. He's already gotten to Taskmaker and its sequel, and Sword Dream, although not the 3D version. He even played one of my favorite corny little amateur Mac RPGs ever, Mechanical Anarchy, which, despite its amateur nature, fascinated me as a kid.

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    2. As a fellow 90s Mac user, it was interesting to play Cythera without knowing much about Ultima...then a few years later learning more about Ultima 6 and 7 and realizing how much of a clone of those two games it was. I'm a similar case where I started out with those Mac shareware RPGs and such before getting into the wider world of PCs and consoles.

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  15. I too find the backstory a little diffuse. My interpretation is that the Guardian is masquerading as the destroyer as well as the saviour and the whole Titan business is something he conjured up just because....of all the villains in video games, the Guardian always seemed the most 'extra' to me.

    Can't wait to reward more entries. I don't expect you to do a 180 degree on your original opinion.

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    1. That's how I understood it. The whole conflict was manipulated by the Guardian into tricking people to follow the new society as established by him and maintained by the Titans.

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  16. In my youth, I managed to win this game in its original form, stupidly hard jumping puzzles and all. And it was a nightmare - on my 486/33 it took a full minute to load a savegame after death, and the jumping puzzles guaranteed a lot of that. But I was stubborn and pushed through.

    But it never really felt like an Ultima to me. It didn't share the setting, and it didn't share any of the traditional characters. The only real thing that tied it to the earlier games was the protagonist, and when you get right down to it the Avatar doesn't really have a personality.

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    1. I agree that Pagan doesn't feel like a part of the Ultima series.

      Even the much-maligned Serpent Isle is still based on cities from earlier games; their rejection of Lord British's philosophy is key part of the setting. It has a clear virtue system, tie-ins to the gargoyles, and the classic magic syllables and ingredients.

      Pagan has none of that; none of its lore has anything to do with Britannia, or the Avatar, or virtues; except the Guardian as an external invader. It's the biggest misfit in the series since Martian Dreams.

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    2. The first Underworld I consider a bigger misfit. Cup of Wonder, really? It didn't even get the name of the virtue correct. No connection at all to the rest of the series (except the manual, which gets tons of stuff wrong) and is never mentioned again in any of the games. It's a great game, but it's not an Ultima game, unlike UU2.

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  17. I kind of liked Pagan, but I didn't finish it. I came very, very close, but it's the only Ultima (other than Martian Dreams) that I couldn't get all the way through. My copy, or maybe the version of DOSBox I was using, glitched out. That said, I also liked Ascension, so you can take my opinions with a grain of salt. I liked how they were different from the others, and more action oriented RPGs. I don't really mind the retcons and stuff, because I treat video games differently than books or movies. Anything that happened in the previous games or manuals is just legend and hearsay.

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    1. Sorry, this anonymous comment was me. I signed into my account, seemingly successfully, but I guess it didn't take.

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  18. The passage of time is another weak point of this game. Its food model is my preferred one: you are not required to eat, but it is beneficial to do so. The "eternal twilight" is an excuse not to have a day/night cycle, which is probably a mercy. Most denizens stay in one place all day, but the few who don't are annoying to track down.

    I believe the unreleased "Lost Vale" expansion was supposed to add a few more emotions to the Zealan pantheon.

    Get yourself some empty bags before you go crazy.

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  19. "I particularly don't like the black outline around the Avatar, the NPCs, and most of the interactable objects."

    You had no problem with those black outlines in either part of U7, so I'm not sure what made them worse in this game.

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    1. The difference appears to be that Ultima 7's art is hand-drawn whereas Pagan's is rendered.

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    2. Based on what I see so far, U VIII is a mix of rendered and hand-drawn objects, which perhaps explains the irritation.

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    3. Weirdly the rendered objects are actually sets of 2D sprites created from pre-rendered 3D objects, which probably makes their movement look "freakish" in that it doesn't look like either 2D or 3D art. The intention was to create something that would look "like pixel art, but super fluidly animated" but I don't think that's working for Chet.

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    4. I appreciate the attempts at explanations. To the original anonymous commenter (please pick a name), all I can say is, I agree: I had no problem with the black outlines in U7, and I do here, and I don't know what makes them worse in this game, either.

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    5. Comparing the screenshots you posted to those posted elsewhere, yours look a little "smearier". I wonder if the GOG version has some kind of poorly-implemented filter going.

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    6. @James Neal, at that time there were tons of games with 2D sprites created from 3D renders (Fallout 1 and 2, Infinity engine games, Diablo, etc.), but they never looked quite this weird.

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    7. @Addict, based on screenshots alone and having played neither game, I find U7 graphics even worse, and the combination of cluttered and not obvious font with black outlines with cluttered background with black outlines makes the whole thing hard on my eyes.

      This being said, perhaps it looks better in dynamics.

      I did try Martian Dreams, though, and I don't quite understand why Origin, that had a perfectly serviceable interface back then, had to re-invent the wheel placing dialogues on top of screen here rather than keep them in a clean and separate dialogue window, like most games do.

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    8. That's not "at that time" though. Fallout, Diablo, and Baldur's Gate all came three or four years AFTER Pagan, require higher system specs, and run on a higher resolution. That makes a pretty big difference.

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    9. @Radiant, Little Big Adventure is perhaps the most famous examples of that graphic style, came out same year as Ultima 8.

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    10. Early 3D had a lot of novelty factor going for it that made people overlook aesthetic shortcomings. For a non-gaming examples, Pixar's 1988 short Tin Toy won an Oscar for best animated short, but looks absolutely atrocious from the perspective of 2020s.

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    11. While I don't want to commit to anything since I haven't played either game, the screenshots on the site do make the Ultima VII graphics look quite a bit more appealing to me. I think it's a bit of an uncanny valley effect, where they've gotten things realistic enough in some areas that it ends up counterproductively highlighting how it falls short.

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    12. I like U8's isometric perspective and the incredibly high amount of objects, such as in houses. I do miss the NPC portraits though.

      @Gnoman: That’s just a consequence of the screenshots being only 320 x 200 pixels and the way your browser renders them. If you download one and open it in an image viewer, you’ll see that its pixels are crisp.

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    13. @VK, Little Big Adventure was in SVGA, while Ultima was in VGA. I think it actually makes a big difference in this case.

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    14. Wait - can we collectively find a way to construe Little Big Adventure as a RPG so Chet plays it?

      We need our best brains here.

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    15. I mean, in a very technical sense, Twinsen's magic power *does* grow with his magic stat...

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    16. Also Steam (and some other websites, predominantly German) tags the original edition (but not the remaster/remake) as RPG, so there could be a case there...
      https://store.steampowered.com/app/1857700/Little_Big_Adventure__Original_Edition/

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  20. I never had the history with Ultima that you have when I first played this, having only played Black Gate before it, and, well, I absolutely loved it at the time. The atmosphere, strange world, and action/RPG combination drew me right in. The intro voiceover "No one there knows of the Avatar..." is a permanent memory for me and I correctly recited it from memory before reading your transcript, and it felt epic when loading it up each time.
    Of course, the game hasn't really held up when I tried a more recent playthrough and knowing more of the Ultima history, but I'm really looking forward to you working through this one, unpicking the good and the bad, and seeing where you feel by the end, it's one of the more unique games on your list.

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  21. I've been looking forward to this one--as an outsider to Ultima who's interested in Chet's reaction to this infamous entry, coming to it after having experienced a glut of other cRPGs, of varying quality.

    As someone whose cRPG interests go much more to combat and exploration, to the extent that most of my favorite cRPG-adjacent games probably don't count as cRPGs by Chester's definition--and who also enjoys a good platformer, side view please--I'm kind of gobsmacked by the mouse-only movement in what seems to be an action-heavy game. It's kind of like if you had a Wizardry where it's important to pick the right combat option each turn--but you have to select it by flicking a Wiimote in the direction of the screen. Usually it's good to give the player fine-grained control over the things they need fine-grained control over.

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    1. "Usually it's good to give the player fine-grained control over the things they need fine-grained control over." This is a great argument FOR mouse control for some things and against it for others. Usually, when commenters express bafflement at my disdain for the mouse, they're not making this distinction.

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    2. I think your commentors usually try to defend the developer's decisions to make everything mouse only, rather than opining that mouse only is better. Interestingly, mouse only is rare these days, even in indy puzzle games. I play a lot of survivor-likes, and they almost always have redundant keyboard controls.

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    3. I think the return of keyboard shortcuts has mainly to do with the spread of cross-platform titles and the UIs needing to be controller-friendly. Late 90s UI design philosophy was all about mice and how they allow the player to just start the game and play, without having to learn all those pesky keyboard commands.

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    4. Nah, keyboard shortcuts started coming back well before multiplatform releases became common.

      Once the mouse stopped being NEW THING, people started realizing that it wasn't always BEST THING. Just like games started putting numbers back on resource trackers instead of purely graphical bars and text on buttons instead of just icons.

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    5. Ultima VIII is NOT mouse-only: the major interface buttons do have keyboard shortcuts, but movement, frustratingly, does not.

      Delete
    6. Diablo is a good example of an action-heavy CRPG with well-made mouse controls.

      - Just left-click the ground to move there, with pathfinding. (In U8, you move in a direction without pathfinding, forcing you to go around every obstacle.)

      - Just left-click an enemy to attack. The character will close the distance if necessary. (In U8 combat, a single left click makes you block, though it never seemed to have any effect to me, while a double left click makes you attack toward the cursor, regardless of whether an enemy is in range.)

      - Left-click to pick up items, use objects, and talk to NPCs. (In U8, a single left click only shows the object’s name; you need to double-click to use it.)

      - Right-click uses the selected spell or ability.

      - Regarding jumping: In Diablo 2 you can assign the Barbarian’s Leap ability to the right mouse button and right-click a specific spot to jump there.

      According to project director Mike McShaffry, Richard Garriott was inspired by Prince of Persia to make U8 more action-focused. I think that explains a bit what they were going for.

      Generally, in various interviews they said that they wanted to reach a wider audience, like Wing Commander. I think the concept of U8 did make sense. If movement, jumping, attacking, etc. had been as easy and fun as in Diablo, the game might have been very successful.

      It may be unfair to say this with hindsight, but there was no technical reason that prevented Origin from making the game’s basic actions work much better. But from various interviews I have the impression that their teams were too compartmentalized to iterate much on the basics. Blizzard, by contrast, seemed to get everyone playing early and continually refining the game.

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    7. That's true, but it lacks keyboard shortcuts for many things I wish it had them for, including (T)alk, (A)ttack, and (O)pen. Also, it's annoying that ESC brings up the options menu instead of closing the inventory and/or status screen, as it did in U7. Instead, you have to double-click on them.

      Delete
    8. I don't think they have talk/attack/open anymore as everything is context-dependent. Which is more or less how stuff with shortcuts works these days, as mouse is rarely replaceable completely.

      This being said, U8's control scheme is truly awful in ways only a game from that era can be, when people were actively reinventing the wheel.

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  22. I was a huge fan of Ultima in high school, and young enough that I overlooked all the nonsense and flaws in the plots and worldbuilding. It was captivating to me.

    From that standpoint, I remember that Pagan was definitely different and not one of my favorite games, but it still felt like Ultima to me. Ultima IX, on the other hand, did not seem like Ultima at all.

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  23. I'm another person who bounced hard off Pagan. I remember getting as far as some crypt, hating the jumping, and quitting in disgust. It was incredibly disappointing, at the time.

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  24. I am surprised how bad the running animation is here.

    I also saw some videos on YouTube, and the sound is outright weird, with a mix of pretty decent music (CD track, perhaps?) and pretty bad sound effects. It irritates me perhaps even more than would a combination of bad music and bad sound effects.

    I have some weird memory of trying this game back in the day, but somehow I remember the environment very differently. Perhaps I started with a save?

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    1. I'm almost certain I tried this game in the 90s, too. The look of the Avatar in Pagan was immediatelly recognizable to me. But I remember the environment differently, too - I started in a city and I remember there was nothing interesting to do.

      The obvious explanation would be that I played a demo version. It was on a (copied) CD with lots of shareware titles, Duke Nukem, Commander Keen, etc., so that would make sense.

      But - there is absolutely no mention of a demo version for Pagan anywhere.

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    2. It's funny. My own memories are old and faded, but I thought I remembered the game starting in some kind of pit and it being necessary for the Avatar to jump his way out of it.

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    3. @Buck, I remember it being in some green outdoor ground, wooden houses with bookshelves, and throwable books, if that fits your description.

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    4. This is approximately where I remember having played a very pirated Ultima VIII when I was a teenager:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6AHcTgX4tg

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    5. I also remember starting it back then, and the starting zone being something like a dungeon. However, it could be a demo, I kind of remember having it in a magazine cd

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    6. John from PittsburghAugust 17, 2026 at 1:54 PM

      @RandomGamer Pretty sure this game had AWE32 wavetable synth, which was brand new at the time and really blew peoples' minds. I remember that sound card being pricy though.

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  25. Here we go....

    I grew up with Ultima (and Wizardry, but I bounced hard off Wizardry 4 and stopped playing). My parents played Ultima 1, I played 2-7. I was a kid and really didn't like the adventure game aspects that started to creep in, so I cheated my way through Serpent Isle (click the whatnow? Whatever, give me back my RPG, dammit). I was _so excited_ by the end of 7.5 and I couldn't wait for 8. Bought it on release day.

    And it killed the series for me. I did try 9 and, wow, that just beat the dead horse, but 8 killed Ultima. The graphics were gooey, the plot was nonsensical, it was ... I don't even know what it was. The patch turned it from "infuriating waste of time" to just "waste of time".

    I heard a quote once that Conan was an interesting character in a series of books, and there was a fun movie about a guy named Conan, wasn't that a coincidence? In my mind there is a good series of games about the Avatar (that, honestly, ends at 6 ... while 7 was pretty the engine was too focused on realism and thus the plot was paper thin) and then there's ...

    This.

    Ick.

    Good luck. You're going to need it.

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    1. I hope for my sake that I don't feel THAT negatively about the game when it's over. But "gooey" is a perfect word for what I think about the graphics.

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  26. I played it 10 years ago and enjoyed it as a deliberately clunky retro gaming experience. I do think there were some genuinely good ideas in the game. I especially love the idea of being teleported to an alien and bizarre world, then having to go to the local library and try to figure what the hell is going on by reading lore books... which some of them give hints to secret treasure you may look for. I just loved that moment so much that it carried a lot of the game for me.

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  27. If the great world tree never gets mentioned again, I'd like to imagine it was the grandiose name for some obscure local landmark, like the oldest tree in a tiny village, that was just incidentally destroyed by the Guardian.

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  28. Here's the strange thing: I just downloaded a pirated floppy version (NOT the GOG version), and the beginning is very different. Rather than starting on the shore, you start inside some labyrinth with skeletons, crypts, traps and the like.

    Is it a floppy version quirk, or an anti-piracy protection?

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    1. Huh, that's literally all I remember about the game, too. It was probably 30ish years ago, though...

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    2. It sounds like the catacombs. You will get there, but you shouldn't start there. I suspect a bug in that specific version.

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    3. This is approximately where my version starts when I try to start a new game:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_T8xykD0Uc

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    4. This is definitely starting a NEW game and not just firing it up? Because it will load the most recent save by default. You have to specifically go to the diary and choose "Read Diary," and then load "The Beginning."

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    5. I specifically followed these steps, enter new name, and find myself in Catacombs again.

      Given that there's a "demo.bat" in the same folder (which just launches U8.exe, which starts at that same point in the Catacombs), I suspect that Origin could indeed create a demo, because I doubt there is a collective hallucination in the comment section. But, given where the demo started, I don't see how it could promote anything, because it is just frustrating as hell.

      I want to follow up more on this and already found a few potential sources for this version, but Archive.org is down right now, so the whole thing is delayed indefinitely. At least my kids are with in-laws right now.

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    6. I definitely don't remember wooden houses or catacombs. I very vaguely remember a city with stone buildungs and nothing interesting to do. The AI thinks I played a leaked, non-official tech demo, but it can't provide any proof.

      The demo.bat is also in the version of U8 I downloaded two weeks ago, which starts normally and doesn't seem to have any restrictions, so I wouldn't read too much into that. Maybe the file came with one of the patches.

      The same CD I had back then also had a version of Ultima Underworld that was neither part 1 or 2. But for that one I have a good explanation, it was likely the Blue Sky tech demo.

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    7. I think we both remember a starting city in a normal-ish version, which is about 5 minutes of gameplay after the beheading scene.

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    8. The obvious answer is that this is a weird pirate version. In my younger days, I came across through friends and yard sales all sorts of “compilations” with oddly hacked pirate versions. The files also have an FAQ and walkthrough with timestamps of 96 and 98 so this was someone’s personal archive at a minimum.

      My initial thought and given Monty’s recollection in a different reply/thread is that this is a quickly put together demo possibly for a non-English magazine. Those don’t always have the best documentation on the English speaking web. The total size of the full game is not that large, and I can imagine Origin hacking in a custom start and maybe taking out the dungeon exit or something while leaving the rest of the game. I didn’t play far enough to see what happens. I did however end up at the regular start point one time which was a little bizarre. This could also be unofficial with the publisher hoping Origin wouldn’t notice.

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    9. Chet already noted that starting the game automatically loads the latest save. So any pirated version where the pirates played a few minutes of the game would then start at a different spot. Nothing weird about that.

      Actually, a pirated version would be _less_ weird than an demo with no official references (per Buck, elsewhere on this page) and that in no way specifies that it IS a demo.

      Occam's Razor y'all.

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    10. Stuff like that does happen even in GOG releases, but the version linked below does not include any saved games at all. The version sold by GOG actually crashes if there are no saved games!

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    11. The linked game, of which I have a download, would also crash if I didn't create an empty "savegame" folder. And, yes, it starts at that same exact point even if I create a new game.

      Again, I absolutely wouldn't be surprised if it is a badly pirated copy - but I have no idea how that badly pirated copy managed to achieve such a result.

      Delete
  29. Norweigian Guy: I hope you see this. Knock it off. It's not funny; it DOES discourage me; and it makes maintaining this blog a little less pleasurable. Please ask for help with your drinking problem.

    ReplyDelete
  30. I made it somewhat far into this game, but it was a chore, I would die often and have to reload a lot. It wasn't even the jumping puzzles necessarily, it was just the ensamble, the combat, climbing, movement, bag, everything. The story didn't grip me either, town aside there weren't many people to talk to, and I admit the absence of the portraits made me care less about the individual people, learn their names roles etc. The magic and ingredients were also a downgrade in my opinion. I eventually stopped playing.

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  31. I don't hold any strong interest for the Ultima series personally, but I have always enjoyed reading your coverage of it.

    The mouse only interface sounds intensely I pleasant.

    I hope you find enough you can enjoy about this one

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  32. I didn't get my first PC until around 1994, so Ultima's 1-8 had already been released. I actually bought U7 from a friend, so I got all the fun extras with it, and later got SI and U8 from a local gaming store that briefly dabbled in renting out PC games before selling them off. I have the original 1.0 version on 3 1/2" floppies, which I will say you should absolutely avoid; it won't make the game experience better and it pretty much makes the game "save before every jump".

    U8 is definitely off the beaten path for Ultima, to say the least. The manual and hint guide have more story than the game itself. It also feels like it had the misfortune to fall RIGHT into a little gap before graphics cards went beyond 320x200 resolution so it looks rather primitive. Regardless... it is what it is, and I'll be interested to see how it measures up against U7 in terms of the GIMLET.

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  33. I also bounced off U8 when it first came out, and I was an avid fan before that point (although peak for me was and still is U4). I didn't finish U8 and didn't play U9 at all until 4 years ago when I replayed the entire series from U1-U9 including UU1/UU2. (Although I haven't steeled myself to replay Savage Empire and Martian Dreams.) I'd say there was "just something" I didn't like about U8, but in fact there were many things I didn't like then or even on the modern replay (especially the magic system).

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    1. I never finished Martian Dreams, but Savage Empire was probably the easiest Ultima, and fairly short if I recall. Then again, it's just kind of a silly spinoff.

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    2. In Martian Dreams you could eliminate enemies from the map by staring in their direction with the spyglass before combat started

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  34. BUG ALERT!
    I forgot to mention it earlier on, but... There is a guy in Tenebrae named Beren. He can be in one of three statuses:
    1) he never spoke to you;
    2) he spoke to you, and now he dislikes you;
    3) he spoke to you, and he is now friendly to you.

    If he is in status n.3, a dialogue later in the game will be significantly empty. My guess is that the developers had no time to write those paragraphs (also "thanks" to the draconian deadline imposed by Electronic Arts).

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    1. Hmm. I thought I had explored Tenebrae exhaustively, and I never met Beren. So happily I'm not in Status 3.

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  35. After the extreme length of "Ultima 7.2: Serpent Isle", I really welcomed "Ultima 8: Pagan". Furthermore, I am a "magic buff", and I think Ultima 8 has the best magic lore & magic mechanics of any role-playing game I played, despite the bugs.

    If interested, I have a version without the Speech Pack (but with the jump fix patch), because I really, REALLY dislike voice acting in my games.

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  36. Count me in the camp of "U8 is so ugly". The colours are awful, the text is impossible to read. You really have to put an effort on this game to start to enjoy it because aesthetically it pushes you away all the time.

    One of the few games you talk about here that I actually bought back in the day, and I regretted it so much. Not because it was so different, just because it is an unpleasant game.

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  37. 1 hour or so of gameplay, 77 comments and counting :)

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  38. I totally agree with you about the basic graphic technique. It looks like it has a blur filter applied to make it less pixelated at the cost of smoothing together details.

    I like the style of the coastline though. It looks otherworldly, which is appropriate.

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    1. I think the fact that it looks otherworldly is just a happy accident. Fountains inside the city look the same way.

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    2. Since the fountains in the city are in the same other world, that just means it has a consistent (otherworldly) design...

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    3. Yes, but the outdoor areas are supposed to be coastline, while the fountains are presumably . . . well, fountains. Not the edge of a continental shelf dropping off into an abyss.

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    4. Isn't that specific fountain a pool to their underwater deity with appropriate statues? It is not a simple fountain.

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    5. Except for a couple of tiny puddles and rain barrels, every appearance of water in the game is depicted that way.

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  39. The "demo" is playable online in https://playminigames.net/game/ultima-8-pagan

    I wonder how many people here dealt with it.

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  40. I'm tempted to pick this up and play along but the prospect of mouse only movement is discouraging. It's surprising that they would offer no redundancy with the keyboard, at least with the arrow keys or perhaps the numpad. Since it sounds like the mouse is used with other actions, perhaps a WASD scheme could have worked too.

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  41. Been waiting for you take this on, looking forward to more. I finished the original pre-patch, and again post-patch with the (god, I shelled out for this) speech pack and clue book, which IIRC is an in-lore cluebook in the origin style....

    Look, really I just want someone to know that I finished the launch U8, and if anyone else is out there who did, despite feeling betrayed by the many many problems with this game (no party members?? so many bugs, a terrible combat system, a rushed physics system, a clearly hamstrung dev team, and an even more linear structure than SI), you deserve a medal. Ha.

    I share some of the other commenters queries about takes on the art style - despite my problems with U8 - playing it at launch and recently though, my opinion is it works for the setting. The colour palette, the design, the stylistic choices, couple with the excellent OST I found an immersive balm for the lack of other ultima-like features.

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    1. The main bug I encountered was that the game would just freeze or crash, seemly randomly. It would occasionally do a weird graphical glitch, but when it worked correctly, it was a little laggy but otherwise fine. You don't want lag in an action game, but still. I kind of liked it for the fact that it was different. There were at least small differences in all the games. But this one was on a different world, so your companions are gone (they did most of the combat anyway), and now you have to fend for yourself (and deal with the different virtues and magic systems in a more chaotic world). Combat matters again for the first time since Ultima V (well Underworld II, really) in the main series. I also think it's a good preparation for the last game in the series, at least in regards to the Avatar.

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  42. Also, stats are not increased by trainers. I clearly didn’t read the manual those many decades ago, so I’ll copy it here:

    Strength (STR) affects the amount of damage each blow does in a fight. It also determines how high you can jump, how much you can carry and how far you can throw objects. Your Strength increases the more you jump or engage in combat. Your maximum encumbrance (how much you can carry) is three times your Strength.

    Intelligence (INT) determines your potential Mana. Maximum Mana is twice your Intelligence. The more spells you cast, the more rapidly Intelligence increases throughout the game.

    Dexterity (DEX) affects the frequency of your attacks during combat. It also determines your ability to grab ledges and throw objects. Practicing these activities during the game is what increases Dexterity.

    It’s important to know that stats go up by use, not level. I think you can quickly level strength by spending an hour jumping back and forth.

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    1. Wait, STR determines how *high* you can jump? So, are you telling me that with higher strength potentially more ledges become accessible?

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    2. Oh, yeah. I missed the importance of that fact the first time I read the comment. Does anyone know if this is really the case?

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    3. It is absolutely not true regarding jumping. Also, the trainers do increase your stats, not that it matters a hell of a lot.

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    4. Of course the manual was written for the unpatched version, where STR probably does affect jumping as described.

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    5. Wouldn't that be a fun mechanic. You finally got the timing on your jumps right, only for it to get messed up again, as the jumping increased your strength.

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  43. U8 to me I’d a game which has the germs of some interesting ideas but they’re just incredibly undeveloped, or implemented in a unfun way.

    I really wish the expansion was released though, as it sounds like it would fix some more of the bigger issues, and give the story a bit more depth.

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  44. The atmo is great, proto Diablo.

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  45. I've said it before, but despite its many flaws, U8 holds a very special place in my heart. It was my first Ultima. I never did beat it (not sure if the version I played had the jumping patch, but I got to the part where there's a big jumping section between, let's say "halves" and just got stuck there), but I think I'll load up the GOG version and see how it goes. I remember hoarding every container I could find in order to organize my pack and never really figuring out how to do anything particularly useful with fire gems (killed myself a bunch of times though). I always figured that the tombstone was thanks to the Guardian, choosing to ironically mock in you death. I thought of the game as quite lovely (well...I never really cared for the blank faced NPCs, but there's only so much you can do at the resolution the game ran at), but I should look at it with fresher eyes, since it's been so long since I played. I loved the Crusader games also, but I don't think their joystick controls would have improved U8 any.

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  46. Ultima VIII adds another ridiculous tactic to Avatar experience: running around on roofs.

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    Replies
    1. I enjoyed climbing buildings and breaking in through the rooftops. I don't think anyone's mentioned this, but the engine has enough "give" in it to permit multiple solutions to certain tasks (by which I mean going around things or running like mad straight through).

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  47. I played through Ultima 8 in its original form (pre‑patch) when it came out, running on a 486 DX2/66. Getting through the game with its excruciatingly long loading times and the original jumping mechanic was… interesting; something I doubt I’d have the patience for today.

    What made me finish the game wasn’t the combat, which regularly got me killed, nor the practical application of magic, which felt too cumbersome to use. It wasn’t the dungeons either, which ultimately felt drab to me. Instead, it was something harder to pin down, a certain je ne sais quoi, a kind of strange, otherworldly flair. The graphics and art style were a big part of that. Not because they were beautiful, but because they conjured a mood unlike anything else: a world bathed in eternal twilight, where trees stand beside giant mushrooms, where people have sold away their afterlife to ensure their survival, where spider‑like creatures roam freely, undead linger everywhere, and the coastline drops off into deadly depths without warning.

    In my mind, all of this formed the picture of a dying land, a world in its last throes. And that was a world I wanted to explore, experience, and understand.

    This fascination carried me through and made me finish the game. It wasn’t just the implementation of the world, but the idea of it, its gestalt in my mind that made me hunt down every scrap of lore I could find. Ultima 8 held my attention far more than I consider justifyable, and certainly longer than its mechanics deserved.

    Anyway, eagerly looking forward to more posts.

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    1. I get where you're coming from, and I agree that the game sets up an interesting world in that regard. But it doesn't gibe well with landscaped streets and gas lanterns. There only seem to be a few hundred people alive in this world; who's manufacturing iron? Who is making stained glass windows? Who is maintaining and servicing all of these estates? It would have been cooler if they'd gone all-in on the "ruined world" concept.

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    2. Agreed that could certainly have strengthened the setting while also addressing many of the inconsistencies you pointed out.

      The world is in steep decline: mining operations have ceased, food production is barely adequate, the old arts and crafts are failing, and people are flocking to the few remaining settlements, trying to cling to their dying civilization and traditions. On top of the complexities and pressures of such a society, they also have to appease the Titans. A touch more dilapidation here, a bit more despair there, and the setting could have felt both believable and consistent while retaining its otherworldly flair.

      Given the limited technical and production resources games had back then, leaning into that decay would have elegantly masked those constraints. Alas a version of Ultima 8 that never was.

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  48. I have a love-hate relationship with the game in that I love the idea of it, especially the various magic systems. But of course, it is quite clunky. I'll probably comment a bit on it as you get to each one.

    I managed to complete the game without the jumping patch one, and maybe a couple of times after with the patch, which is a lot nicer.

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  49. "I loved Ultima V just as much as I had a decade earlier."

    Very respectfully, U5 has some serious flaws that you dismiss, but then condemn in some of its clones (like the neverending, repetitive, slow, combat system. or the vast emptiness of the underworld that drags on multiple forceful visits).

    Now we know why ;)

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    1. I also give my support to Ultima V as the best Ultima and one of the top best living world RPG's out there, up there with games like Skyrim and Kingdom Come: Deliverance.

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    2. I'd argue it's not really an improvement over U4, and that U6 is much more polished. But that's me :)

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    3. U5 had a lot of interface improvements over U4, more tactical combat, an expanded inventory, a more interesting spell system, and far more world interactivity. No one has to love it, but I don't think my high rating is because of nostalgia goggles.

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    4. Yeah, Pedro calls it "neverending" and "repetitive" but several other commenters call U5 the one with the best combat and/or the last mainline ultima with actual tactical combat.

      Or to put it differently, U5 is the strongest "pure RPG" in the Ultima line (U6 is more of a sandbox, U7 more of an adventure game, U8 more of an action adventure. Of course each still has its RPG elements but U5 has the strongest).

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  50. Thank you for this in-depth review! Concerning its hidden (and easily overlooked) qualities, I think Pagan is a flawed masterpiece, spoiled only due to the premature release date pushed by the greedy management of EA. Back in the days I had to program a boot disk to start that beast on a Win 98 system. A quite challenging endeavor for a eleven year old greenhorn... I've always been fascinated by the eerie atmosphere of this game and especially its music. Most cues are kind of sepulchral and sinister, but at the same time enicmatically melodious. It's hard to find the correct words. The music in this game is a mystery in itself... and I say that as a studied musician. E. g. for many passages it is difficult to even determine the exact key. Take the "Pagan Theme": it starts in B-flat minor for only four bars and then goes straight to G-sharp minor and then modulates back to B-flat minor after again only four bars. It took me some time to figure this out and this is the case with many cues. In terms of compositional quality (it's actually very rich in leitmotifs, with many themes representing characters, places and events in the world of Pagan), I think this score is every bit as good as a fully orchestral film score. Vugrinec' music is a major contributor to Pagan's dense and immersive gameplay and as the game itself it is sadly very underrated.

    I’ve been planning to do this for years and finally got around to re-arranging and recording all the major cues from Pagan’s fantastically atmospheric score using a well-balanced mix of a) sonorous synth VSTs and b) high-quality orchestral VSTs in a sequencer program in order to maximize the listening experience while, at the same time, not completely abandon Vugrinec’s original 90s MIDI sound, which is after all inherent and important to the composition itself. My goal was to present the music in a more modern incarnation, so that hopefully you may enjoy it as much as I do.

    You can find the whole album on Bandcamp:

    https://dustinnaegel.bandcamp.com/album/ultima-viii-pagan-orchestral-re-arrangement

    I even made some videos featuring music from that project:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH5FaWPvd8Y

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_VhtZCH6gM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ze9CbhWsxQ

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