tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post751782101400296689..comments2024-03-19T06:03:57.317-04:00Comments on The CRPG Addict: Dungeons of Avalon: Better not to KnowCRPG Addicthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comBlogger64125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-38345047653464256292017-05-22T19:30:56.318-04:002017-05-22T19:30:56.318-04:00This one still bothers me (as I'd imagine it b...This one still bothers me (as I'd imagine it bothers you, no doubt infinitely more). I wish I knew something I could do to help figure it out, but short of a testimonial from the developers, I think the only other option would be a full disassembly, which I don't have the chops to pull off.PK Thunderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14416777230563913195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-27514039047784780032017-05-22T19:25:43.826-04:002017-05-22T19:25:43.826-04:00I'm trying to imagine a scenario in which a de...<i>I'm trying to imagine a scenario in which a developer might think it's a good idea to make a game intentionally unwinnable.</i><br /><br />Sadly, it happened on quite a few occasions. Guru Larry has a video on YouTube entitled "5 Purposely Broken, Unbeatable Games by D*ckish Developers" that compiles five examples. While a couple are edge cases, several were clearly done intentionally as a way of covering for incomplete or missing content, i.e. putting in an invincible boss, impossible time limit, or unreachable platform so you'll never find out there's no ending or last level.<br /><br />BTW I dug <i>Inside UFO 54-50</i> as a kid, though I don't remember how I figured out the key gimmick.PK Thunderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14416777230563913195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-66865921401301084672016-05-31T21:27:14.638-04:002016-05-31T21:27:14.638-04:00Right, I thought you had mentioned it. Yes, I did...Right, I thought you had mentioned it. Yes, I did the same thing. I recall figuring it out it was deliberate rather quickly but the impression the text left me with back then was more that ultimate peace was an impossible and purely abstract idea not that we need to push boundaries and break the rules. In any case I recall finding it lame and wanting to slap Packard.It isn't mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07797625314655594068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-84712012561815995862016-05-31T18:22:48.772-04:002016-05-31T18:22:48.772-04:00That one does stand out in memory. I referenced it...That one does stand out in memory. I referenced it in a post on <i>Tunnels & Trolls</i>, I think.<br /><br />I remember it took me forever to "get" it. I found the ending in the middle of the book, and then I scoured the entire book looking for the steps that would take me to that ending, frustrated when I didn't find them. It was only after a lot of thinking that I realized what the passages meant about "you can't make it here by following directions."CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-13860181892665264302016-05-31T17:12:49.472-04:002016-05-31T17:12:49.472-04:00This may be a game in only the broadest sense but ...This may be a game in only the broadest sense but did you ever read the "Choose your own Adventure" novels when you were young? There was one called "Inside UFO 54-40" which was nearly unique in that there was a specific special goal - reaching the planet of universal peace - Ulitma. There were pages in the book which described you reaching this goal. However you could never reach it because...'universal peace' can't be reached by following the rules.<br /><br />So you can add "deliberately frustrating children" to the list of reasons why an author might make a game intentionally unwinnable.It isn't mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07797625314655594068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-81686660529247490942016-04-16T08:49:39.247-04:002016-04-16T08:49:39.247-04:00No, I was never able to track them down. I put tha...No, I was never able to track them down. I put that disclaimer up there because upon re-reading my post the next day, I realized it was misleading and needlessly accusatory. I posted it in a state of post-game agitation instead of letting the entry cool for a couple days like I usually do.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-84277460438439647132016-04-16T00:38:41.516-04:002016-04-16T00:38:41.516-04:00Did you ever make contact with any of the develope...Did you ever make contact with any of the developers? I thought that when you softened the language of your post, it meant you'd gotten in touch with one of them and were worried about offending them.PK Thunderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14416777230563913195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-76037209593320318182016-04-15T17:04:34.918-04:002016-04-15T17:04:34.918-04:00This one continues to bother me a bit, and I wish ...This one continues to bother me a bit, and I wish we could get a definitive answer on what was supposed to happen in that final combat or how we were supposed to win the game.<br /><br />I hope the bug you mention doesn't happen in every version, or the second one is going to be a quick play, too.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-66106351734612696802016-04-15T07:41:04.767-04:002016-04-15T07:41:04.767-04:00Just to add my 2 cents... I played the sequel many...Just to add my 2 cents... I played the sequel many years ago, which was given away free on a magazine coverdisk. It was bugged so you couldn't progress beyond a very early point, as the game refused to recognize you possessed a key item in your inventory. It looks like the programming for the first game is better (you can get to the end) but kind of worse as you can likely never finish it!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12219920301947955486noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-29353786357710403482015-08-18T15:53:38.727-04:002015-08-18T15:53:38.727-04:00I was hoping that the Addict's addition of a d...I was hoping that the Addict's addition of a disclaimer to this post meant some big revelation was imminent, but things seem to have died down. Unfortunately, I can't help solve this riddle in any meaningful way, so it'd be gauche of me to "bump" too much.<br /><br />But still, I do want to say that I hope someone eventually figures out (or otherwise discloses) what's really happening with Dungeons of Avalon's inaccessible ending & impossible final boss fight, and will be very appreciative of any efforts in that direction.<br /><br />Oh, and: actually, Shin Megami Tensei, Final Fantasy, you should really play that on a console, traffic lights are gorgeous, Amigas are easy and intuitive computers where you "just have to _____", and Kenny G is great. There, did I hit every bullet point of obnoxiousness? :D<br /><br />Thanks once again for all your effort in investigating the shadowy, sketchy, forgotten corners of the CRPG world.PK Thunderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14416777230563913195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-10760899981116078302015-08-11T21:04:16.829-04:002015-08-11T21:04:16.829-04:00Great, so that's one possibility eliminated (m...Great, so that's one possibility eliminated (more or less). Is a German-speaking reader willing to play through the game, ideally on real hardware, and see if they encounter the same show-stopper -- or if they pick up on some poorly-translated secret (clear in German, opaque in English) required to beat the Dark Lord?<br /><br />If that doesn't work, the next step would be to see if a routine to access the ending is at least still present in the program code, and is getting branched around or otherwise not activated.PK Thunderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14416777230563913195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-75184636151107744002015-08-11T11:39:35.431-04:002015-08-11T11:39:35.431-04:00Okay, dahauns sent me a German ADF with my save fi...Okay, dahauns sent me a German ADF with my save file copied to it. Nothing is any different (aside from being in German). The final battle involves the same enemies and nothing happens afterwards. Of course, this doesn't necessarily mean anything if the saved game itself got corrupted somehow.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-74273839796022623202015-08-11T06:26:19.911-04:002015-08-11T06:26:19.911-04:00*applause* Very nice.*applause* Very nice.dahaunshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02098585704891226776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-81304161023004922312015-08-11T06:13:43.030-04:002015-08-11T06:13:43.030-04:00Haha, had the same idea :)
The savegame seems to ...Haha, had the same idea :) <br />The savegame seems to work in the german version, but I didn't have time yet to test it further.<br /><br />Copying it to the ADF depends on what you have on your installation. The Classic Workbench images, and IIRC also the Cloanto ones, all have Directory Opus (the Norton Commander of the Amiga world) installed, which makes this rather simple, otherwise you have to set Window->Show->All Files (see: wiki.amigaos.net/wiki/AmigaOS_Manual:_Workbench_Using)dahaunshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02098585704891226776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-65380850062059454462015-08-10T21:29:55.313-04:002015-08-10T21:29:55.313-04:00"I'm trying to imagine a scenario in whic..."I'm trying to imagine a scenario in which a developer might think it's a good idea to make a game intentionally unwinnable."<br /><br />First, don't think of them as developers. Think of them as a couple of European Amiga programmers who dashed off a quick game that was featured in a magazine. I can totally see them making the Dark Lord win as a joke. They'd find it hilarious. <br /><br />"A balanced fight"? No way, this game did not contain 2015 design requirements. Harlandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-4444071223104821242015-08-10T16:16:58.768-04:002015-08-10T16:16:58.768-04:00That would probably require the use of the Amiga&#...That would probably require the use of the Amiga's command shell (CLI) or some dedicated tool, since the Workbench itself doesn't show the entire contents of a disk. Not sure if you want to dig that deep, but if you can send me the save game I'll gladly give it a try.dknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-39277813054616983882015-08-10T15:46:44.990-04:002015-08-10T15:46:44.990-04:00If you use the anti-aura scroll and run, nothing r...If you use the anti-aura scroll and run, nothing really happens. If you enter the square with the final battle again, it's just as it was the first time. And yes, I did use it with my maxed characters. Until you use it, no spells can be cast.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-61933977533760891902015-08-10T15:40:50.486-04:002015-08-10T15:40:50.486-04:00Also, did you think to use the scroll when attacki...Also, did you think to use the scroll when attacking with your maxed-out characters? If not, that might be the issue...tlhonmeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03256644187305759072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-90575772518507449112015-08-10T15:38:48.243-04:002015-08-10T15:38:48.243-04:00What happens if you use the "anti-aura" ...What happens if you use the "anti-aura" scroll, and then run?tlhonmeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03256644187305759072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-48491436401059238772015-08-10T15:12:16.005-04:002015-08-10T15:12:16.005-04:00No, the aura scroll only works in combat. In any e...No, the aura scroll only works in combat. In any event, Kham's visage disappears once you solve his riddles and complete his quests. There's now way o find him or get him to come back that I can see.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-1040100847573060512015-08-10T15:11:39.183-04:002015-08-10T15:11:39.183-04:00Within the workbench, I mean. I obviously know how...Within the workbench, I mean. I obviously know how to mount a floppy file in WinUAE, but not so I can access and edit the files.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-16849122036545253632015-08-10T15:10:15.246-04:002015-08-10T15:10:15.246-04:00The English version I have is a WHDLoad version, b...The English version I have is a WHDLoad version, but all the German versions I can find use .ADFs. I would somehow have to transfer the save game file onto the German .ADF, right? I'm not sure how to do that since I can't "open" the ADF from within Windows, and I'm not sure how to mount and edit the ADF in the emulator. I'll be glad for hints on that.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-32141519566469977142015-08-10T10:50:12.782-04:002015-08-10T10:50:12.782-04:00Just had the same idea. ;-)Just had the same idea. ;-)dknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-35692875405330104682015-08-10T10:48:43.960-04:002015-08-10T10:48:43.960-04:00Just an idea: If (hopefully) the versions are save...Just an idea: If (hopefully) the versions are save game compatible, it could be worth a try to load that last game into the German version and see if it makes any difference for the final battle and/or endgame sequence. dknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-49154194865753143602015-08-10T10:32:07.279-04:002015-08-10T10:32:07.279-04:00Did the dispel Aura scroll work some place else. C...Did the dispel Aura scroll work some place else. Can you read it outside of fight? Can you read it to Kham (in DM the quest giver is kind of the bad guy)? It would be so disapointing if it's only a bug. May be your save can work on a german version, and someone can get to the bottom of that.Nathan Pymhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13672524583329369999noreply@blogger.com