tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post5990173758953669593..comments2024-03-28T15:25:30.216-04:00Comments on The CRPG Addict: Dark Sun: Won!CRPG Addicthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comBlogger80125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-61467805766603404482022-01-31T18:03:34.733-05:002022-01-31T18:03:34.733-05:00Woah! That's crazy! What a cool way of deali...Woah! That's crazy! What a cool way of dealing with the final battle (and the annoyance of xp caps).Iambicnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-48685750316631829152022-01-31T12:12:12.228-05:002022-01-31T12:12:12.228-05:00I have a vague memory that the geyser with the sma...I have a vague memory that the geyser with the smaller geysers around it could be interacted with. This is dredged from a long time ago but I think you had to put meteors into the smaller holes and you'd get a piece of metal from the big geyser which could be made into something else. Jeremiah Jamtoesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-45788729936148601412022-01-18T10:13:10.562-05:002022-01-18T10:13:10.562-05:00Btw that mastyrial sting/quirri bird thing is in a...Btw that mastyrial sting/quirri bird thing is in an area that makes no sense to be accessible at all. Its off one of the cliffs in the Silt Sea cliffs area, there's a weird thing where passing through an arch made of bone somehow lowers you the thirty odd feet down to the silt surface, and then a single mastyrial attacks near some quirri bird nests and drops the sting.Adrianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17088621906291687183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-62323279789669730652022-01-18T10:02:17.034-05:002022-01-18T10:02:17.034-05:00Agree that blocking vision is much more impt in th...Agree that blocking vision is much more impt in that last battle than anywhere else in the game. I took ranger/cleric for my half giant instead of pure gladiator. Still gets the doubled hitpoints effect.Adrianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17088621906291687183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-82591814306861427682022-01-13T10:17:32.619-05:002022-01-13T10:17:32.619-05:00I remember playing Shattered Lands back in the ear...I remember playing Shattered Lands back in the early 2000s and doing something that pissed the Genie off such that he threw me into a pile of slaads far away from the actual final battle.Jonothanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06305455959377150878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-65119502194386047502022-01-12T12:42:36.760-05:002022-01-12T12:42:36.760-05:00You can put characters aside and bring them back l...You can put characters aside and bring them back later, the way to beat the army is to bring an army, 1 level 9 character requires the exp of 2 level 8s. You can easily throw 20ish lvl7-8 characters at the final battle and with two genie heals it's very doable.Woomodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04052598325348183205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-57829127153942810672022-01-07T10:26:59.767-05:002022-01-07T10:26:59.767-05:00In addition to the other comments, Chet literally ...In addition to the other comments, Chet literally stated in the opening paragraph that he was not happy with the way he won. Unless the game in question is absolute trash or frustrating to the point of giving up entirely, I would feel much the same as the addict. I commend him on taking so much extra time to explore other options as he said multiple times he wanted to. I also consider his methods here outstanding, especially considering this is a project most of us are following at no cost. For the final battle, a very difficult one at that, the expectation that the devs would have included a phenomenal drop is not out of line. Being given something less for such hard work is a disappointment. With the game effectively over, what would it have hurt to get a Vorpal Sword of Overkill or some such?Nachtshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14687591577885252972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-12858467216077156522022-01-06T14:23:43.270-05:002022-01-06T14:23:43.270-05:00Yeah, I think this would work, but the cloud/fog/e...Yeah, I think this would work, but the cloud/fog/etc. spells would be absolutely key -- I've tried the El's Drinker dupe strategy with 4 half-giant gladiator PCs (NB you can't multiclass gladiator with anything else), and while they absolutely facestomp everything else in the game, in the final fight they're the ones who get murdered without being able to do too much.tetrapodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04736532124472617151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-3088575221111981572022-01-06T12:48:51.051-05:002022-01-06T12:48:51.051-05:00Also the reward for wyvern bandits from the carava...Also the reward for wyvern bandits from the caravan is only 1000cp. The +3 greataxe is either a reward from Craag for putting his body to rest, or looted off the Draj army commander's body (who oddly had both that and the +4 heavy longsword that drops on the ground after the end fight)Adrianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17088621906291687183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-90785390926069365812022-01-06T12:10:39.898-05:002022-01-06T12:10:39.898-05:00One extreme approach to the final battle would be ...One extreme approach to the final battle would be to use all three wishes to duplicate El's Drinker, resulting in one for each character (which optimally in this game all have fighter/ranger/gladiator classes). Then Enlarge and Strength on all of them to have 24/25 strength each, haste, bless, prayer, barkskin. Then cloud/fog/wall spells to greatly reduce archer/psionic/mage attacks. Not summoning the shadow army results in fighting one more wave at the start consisting of summoned monsters and black mastyrials, which can be deadly due to vrock/mastyrial poison and rampagers destroying armor. But also not an issue with characters doing 40 odd damage a hit (all dual wielding +2 weapons or better)<br /><br />Melee combat in this game just massively outdoes everything else in terms of damage output, so spells should be reserved for heavy buffing, crowd control and limiting range spells and attacks.Adrianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17088621906291687183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-67622370702908625422022-01-05T09:17:10.211-05:002022-01-05T09:17:10.211-05:00It may have only been an official rule in 1e, but ...It may have only been an official rule in 1e, but every DM I know always tries to twist every wish for maximum negative effect, even now.VanSlanzardeFanelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14981365518181703436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-51181452761137925272022-01-05T05:22:03.199-05:002022-01-05T05:22:03.199-05:00I used the same tactic. Positioned myself for the ...I used the same tactic. Positioned myself for the next battle and left clouds, walls, entangle+web etc around. And two draining swords too, of course.Jontzu_Finnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-71430479881328240382022-01-05T03:47:33.046-05:002022-01-05T03:47:33.046-05:00Psionics are able to get dominate, mass dominate a...Psionics are able to get dominate, mass dominate and disintegrate powers very early and then spend their other picks making them stronger, so are potentially very powerful quite early on. Also the sheer amount of xp made adding paionics as a multiclass to two other classes relatively painless.Adrianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17088621906291687183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-46625515407554456272022-01-05T03:45:36.954-05:002022-01-05T03:45:36.954-05:00Extremely glad the bug where the final battle does...Extremely glad the bug where the final battle doesnt start, didnt occur in this playthrough. I had that bug and turned out it required going all the way back to the first time entering the area outside Teaquretzel to resolve, was so sad.Adrianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17088621906291687183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-40167275464588308422022-01-04T15:04:46.385-05:002022-01-04T15:04:46.385-05:00I don't think Dark Sun is "an afterthough...I don't think Dark Sun is "an afterthought" just because it was less popular than THE two most famous and most supported settings. Dark Sun got 30+ sourcebooks and 16 novels; that is WAY more than, say, the Birthright or Spelljammer or Lankhmar settings, or even Planescape!<br /><br />However, TSR was publishing so many settings in the 90s that the company ended up competing against itself, and this is one of several reasons why it went bankrupt (and why most of those settings were discontinued when WOTC took over).<br /><br />There was probably a fair amount of rivalry in D&D in the 90s, meaning "I play only THIS setting because THAT setting sucks". That would hinder sales of many D&D products, including CRPGs, except those that feel generic enough that they could be in any setting (such as Eye of the Beholder).Radianthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03866535042372152723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-67229221618819532672022-01-04T13:49:28.751-05:002022-01-04T13:49:28.751-05:00Ah, thanks, I was looking for those sales figures ...Ah, thanks, I was looking for those sales figures but didn't find them. Well, most of all I wanted to add another perspective. :)<br /><br />GoG only has the Gold Box and Dark Sun games as complete sets. Going by the comments, the Gold Box set has about twice as many. But the Dark Sun games have six pages of comments, so I wouldn't say it's hardly ever talked about.Buckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07270991090065636515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-43346944224827401992022-01-04T13:36:36.352-05:002022-01-04T13:36:36.352-05:00Right now I think it's true that both series (...Right now I think it's true that both series (well, the Dark Sun series and the Gold Box set of series, since there are actually four different ones) are the province of niche audiences. But your sense of the relative prominence of each seems like it's just a function of when you were playing CRPGs: per Jimmy Maher's history of SSI (link: https://www.filfre.net/2019/09/opening-the-gold-box-part-6-a-troubled-marriage/), Pool of Radiance sold over a quarter million copies, while Shattered Lands did less than 50k, and in fact only barely outsold Dark Queen of Krynn, which was I think the 11th Gold Box game. Contemporaneously, the Gold Box games were a pretty big deal, doing big numbers when RPGs were a strong force in the industry, but Dark Sun did negligible business at a time when RPGs were out of fashion.<br /><br />It's certainly true that that relative weight may have shifted in the decades since, though -- it'd be interesting to see sales figures for the GoG releases of the DnD games, though that isn't public info as far as I know. Dark Sun definitely has its share of newer fans, and has an interface that's more accessible to modern audiences than do the Gold Box games not to mention much better graphics, so I can definitely see how these days, folks curious to check out 1st and 2nd Ed DnD games would be more inclined to start with DS than Pool of Radiance and its ilk.tetrapodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04736532124472617151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-78731924184937488992022-01-04T13:01:28.367-05:002022-01-04T13:01:28.367-05:00I never heard of the Gold Box series or any of the...I never heard of the Gold Box series or any of the Gold Box games before I found this blog (I do own Unlimited Adventures, but didn't know it was part of a series and only gave it a short try). I was well aware of the Dark Sun games, having bought both of them on budget CDs.<br /><br />Now that's just me, and most of my playing was in the 90s when the series was already in decline/gone. But I wouldn't be surprised if the Gold Box games were talked about much more mostly in this community. In the larger gaming community, I'd think neither of them are talked about that much.Buckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07270991090065636515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-23026081786176569732022-01-04T08:39:47.235-05:002022-01-04T08:39:47.235-05:00There was a second game too, but yeah, definitely ...There was a second game too, but yeah, definitely much less spin-off media than FR or DL! Part of the context though is that this is right when TSR was introducing lots of new campaign settings - after Ravenloft in 90 and Dark Sun in 91, there was Al Qadim in 92, then Planescape and Birthright in 94 - with the Realms and DL still getting lots of support (and a bit of Greyhawk too - I think Spelljammer was largely moribund by now.<br /><br />Each got some kind of marketing push, including at least one video game, and new campaign settings are of course good marketing opportunities. But the traditional narrative of the fall of TSR is that this wound up Balkanizing the audience and helped set them up for the death spiral that eventually led to getting sold to Wizards (who largely retrenched on campaign settings and only introduced Ebberon in the 20 years they’ve been doing DND).tetrapodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04736532124472617151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-47619239779146378042022-01-04T06:52:03.607-05:002022-01-04T06:52:03.607-05:00Dark Sun was always something of an afterthought i...Dark Sun was always something of an afterthought in the "Prominent Campaign Settings" department. Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms got huge numbers of novels - to the point where you give the average Dragonlance or FR fan a D20 and he'll try to eat it - as well as a lot of video game adaptations (not all of which were CRPGs).<br /><br />Dark Sun got... this game and a handful of novels.<br /><br />Even in the tabletop environments, new settings tend to be a "change of pace" thing that get retired fairly quickly. Players and GM's alike get comfortable with a given world, and want to keep playing in that sandbox. So it's always been an uphill battle trying to make a new one into a hit (and the companies try - new product lines are vital for income!).Gnomanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13920812227941556716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-1312779690002176102022-01-04T02:29:25.936-05:002022-01-04T02:29:25.936-05:00Everyone knows that RPGs have a right order to pla...Everyone knows that RPGs have a right order to play them in, and any True Gamer will simply choose the correct order by intuition. This is why we love this genre so much, the linearity and lack of meaningful player choice.stepped pyramidsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-24626271550643735792022-01-03T13:50:43.552-05:002022-01-03T13:50:43.552-05:00Perhaps it's the setting. I think traditional...Perhaps it's the setting. I think traditional high fantasy D&D is more recognizable and popular than the Dark Sun universe.<br /><br />Also, this was released during the transition to 3D polygon based graphics from 2D sprites. 1994's Ravenloft, Menzoberranzan, and 1995's Ravenloft sequel were all first person 3D. 3D was the new hotness in the 1990s.<br /><br />Finally, SSI was on its last legs at this point and was about to lose the TSR license. SSI itself was acquired by Mindscape in 1994.<br /><br />Fun fact: SSI now belongs to Ubisoft, but not their TSR licensed material. PC Gamer has a brief article on how GoG was able to acquire the Gold Box games license here: https://www.pcgamer.com/how-gog-rescued-13-forgotten-realms-games-from-licensing-hell/No Limitsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-28575902715890185432022-01-03T03:34:29.931-05:002022-01-03T03:34:29.931-05:00You didn't lose options though. Psionic powers...You didn't lose options though. Psionic powers are effectively the same as wizard spellst, and the practical limiter here is how many actions you get per combat. Just because you have twice as many spell slots doesn't mean you're going to have twice as many turns to cast them in.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-54715450843274406242022-01-02T21:45:28.875-05:002022-01-02T21:45:28.875-05:00The fact that you ignored the psionic class at cha...The fact that you ignored the psionic class at character creation harmed your gaming experience in two ways. <br />You lost options and hurt the game economy. <br />A psionic could use the bracelets you found to get more powerful instead of selling them and you could have spent lots of of money to buy psionic bracelets for 9,000cp each.cure888https://www.blogger.com/profile/17201066327084128298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-10789887231672187702022-01-02T14:11:28.526-05:002022-01-02T14:11:28.526-05:00Ah yes, playing blind he did the wrong things in t...Ah yes, playing blind he did the wrong things in the wrong order with the wrong party. That absolute bastard.DSnoreply@blogger.com