tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post5949643545930585287..comments2024-03-28T04:44:28.648-04:00Comments on The CRPG Addict: The Final Word on Daniel Lawrence's DNDCRPG Addicthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-63073562985327678772022-08-15T22:40:13.968-04:002022-08-15T22:40:13.968-04:00Just making a kind of self-promotion: in the first...Just making a kind of self-promotion: in the first part of the DDG "DND Revisited" coverage, I've posted in the comments a tutorial of how to setup an emulator to play this VMS/VAX version. <br /><br />If someone wishes to try, I'm still pensive about the error regarding line-feed. On my main machine (W10) it's not happing, but on the older one (W7) it is. Perhaps it can be corrected by using another terminal (everyone here used Cmder). Arthurionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17367183013090636982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-34134782261541321792022-06-21T14:05:57.731-04:002022-06-21T14:05:57.731-04:00If this is truly Daniel Lawrence's sister, the...If this is truly Daniel Lawrence's sister, then I'm sorry for your loss and for any additional pain this entry caused. If you have any specific evidence to share, I'll be glad to amend this entry accordingly. Absent such, I can only infer based on the best evidence available, and the best evidence available tells me that it simply isn't credible that a 13-year-old boy began working on a game called <i>Dungeons & Dragons</i> three years before the tabletop version of that game was released. Even if he began working on <i>some</i> game in 1971, its final form has too many similarities to a title whose development has been well-documented.<br /><br />Even if I am right, that doesn't mean Mr. Lawrence wasn't brilliant. It is no small feat to rewrite code from scratch for a different system, and his "adaptation" of the PLATO DND had plenty of innovations that do him credit. CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-33741487934203578292022-06-21T09:37:10.871-04:002022-06-21T09:37:10.871-04:00Dan actually began working on his game in 1971, th...Dan actually began working on his game in 1971, the year I was born. I am his sister. I don’t appreciate this blog at all. You are assuming he plagiarized from a prior game not true. He was brilliant and this is not facts. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-10612943532116871852021-11-05T12:58:30.657-04:002021-11-05T12:58:30.657-04:00Holy crap! I knew Daniel Lawrence from a large ro...Holy crap! I knew Daniel Lawrence from a large role-playing club back when I was at Purdue. We played his RPG Adventure Quest. It was actually a lot of fun with some really good ideas. I'm sorry to see that he has passed.jebmakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13465842548268743147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-60658953172405222002019-04-15T22:39:43.160-04:002019-04-15T22:39:43.160-04:00Dunno about anyone else, but I'd love a Window...Dunno about anyone else, but I'd love a Windows build of the game.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00863572802741207741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-49909931368906045452019-03-03T09:51:57.942-05:002019-03-03T09:51:57.942-05:00Keep us posted if you ever hear more... that would...Keep us posted if you ever hear more... that would be a very interesting part of the origin of CRPGs to know more about!arthurdawghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04269435724709435094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-12826143825597810292019-02-18T21:42:12.962-05:002019-02-18T21:42:12.962-05:00I wish I could be of more help. I first encountere...I wish I could be of more help. I first encountered *a* D&D-based game on PLATO in 1976, but I couldn't tell you the lesson name.<br /><br />I first played Rogue around 1981. It went through changes around 1981-1982, including adding archery IIRC. Initially you might find a bow or crossbow somewhere and one arrow or bolt somewhere else; the ammunition was too rare to be useful.<br /><br />In later versions, you could find 3-8 arrows, and that became a major factor in game play. The two turns to equip a bow and later re-equip your mace were too expensive, so I usually just threw arrows at things; if you had high STR, they did a fair amount of damage.Corey Colehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16772474266362396768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-51478912317299593782019-02-18T14:41:22.483-05:002019-02-18T14:41:22.483-05:00No, GoD had wisdom. I'm not sure why I didn...No, GoD had wisdom. I'm not sure why I didn't include it in the list.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-86489151558587938282019-02-18T07:18:32.621-05:002019-02-18T07:18:32.621-05:00That would be an awesome score if you can reveal m...That would be an awesome score if you can reveal m199h and set the timeline straight! I’ve always wondered who wrote it and what it did. The impression has always been that it was a crude effort prior to pedit5 from the internet, but I haven’t seen anything other than rumors... <br /><br />If it came about after pedit5... then we can rest assured about the very first CRPG!arthurdawghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04269435724709435094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-6692645296812826092019-02-18T04:46:42.427-05:002019-02-18T04:46:42.427-05:00At least I took it as your final word, before movi...At least I took it as your final word, before moving to another subject.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-91246422817757937122019-02-17T13:16:43.407-05:002019-02-17T13:16:43.407-05:00You say: "A full set of tabletop Dungeons and...You say: "A full set of tabletop Dungeons and Dragons attributes. The Game of Dungeons just had strength, intelligence, and dexterity. DND adds constitution and charisma." The screenshot right after this shows Wisdom as well. So DND added wisdom as well?Eugenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01040874637214905870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-81167194289120591462019-02-17T13:01:39.459-05:002019-02-17T13:01:39.459-05:00Well, clearly elements from the Plato game got int...Well, clearly elements from the Plato game got into Lawrence's DND. But it could be that he just misremembered, 30 years is a long time.<br /><br />I have one correction: The Jim Burrows you mention as a DEC executive is actually an engineer - he is the one responsible for the Pascal port of DND. There's a facebook post by him that explains how the DND ban at DEC happpened. It sounds like the ban was more due to the DEC lawyers being afraid of an unwritten NDA than an actual legal threat from Lawrence or Avalon Hill.<br /><br />https://www.facebook.com/notes/jim-burrows/the-story-of-the-dnd-ban-at-dec/10150195644192850/Buckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07270991090065636515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-13237372634456979872019-02-17T10:07:34.734-05:002019-02-17T10:07:34.734-05:00Wow, that title sounds a bit pretentious to me now...Wow, that title sounds a bit pretentious to me now. I meant it more as MY final word on DND.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-43529442349642766032019-02-17T10:06:40.052-05:002019-02-17T10:06:40.052-05:00Yes. I was going to make it part of the book if I ...Yes. I was going to make it part of the book if I ever finish it.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-17228134103894949962019-02-17T10:05:54.133-05:002019-02-17T10:05:54.133-05:00But he also thinks that the Internet is wrong and ...But he also thinks that the Internet is wrong and M199h <i>post-</i>dates both pedit5 and dnd.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-65430954132014560762019-02-17T10:05:09.745-05:002019-02-17T10:05:09.745-05:00I'm in touch with someone who claims to have a...I'm in touch with someone who claims to have a printed copy, but I'm not sure if he's ever going to be in a good position to scan it.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-51135271328335327892019-02-17T10:04:18.145-05:002019-02-17T10:04:18.145-05:00Matt's writing a second edition, and I don'...Matt's writing a second edition, and I don't know if he'll change anything about his DND coverage or not. (And to be fair, the only thing that I would consider "wrong" in the book is a statement that Lawrence's DND is "not to be confused with" the PLATO dnd.) He's in a tough spot. On the one hand, there's a lot of smoke that points to plagiarism. On the other, a developer told him to his face that he hadn't referenced any previous game. And when that interview took place, the capability wasn't there to get a Cyber1 account and check things out for yourself, which isn't something you should have to do anyway.<br /><br />Also, *I* think Lawrence was lying, but not everyone has to subscribe to my interpretation. I can see why you'd want to favor the explicit recollections of one of the original authors.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-32436544628513517952019-02-17T09:57:59.589-05:002019-02-17T09:57:59.589-05:00We'd have to hear from the authors to be sure,...We'd have to hear from the authors to be sure, but they were about as far away from PLATO as you can get. I suspect <i>Rogue</i> was a wholly original concept.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-25707155520830467092019-02-17T09:44:22.260-05:002019-02-17T09:44:22.260-05:00Thanks for the endorsement (and the traffic)! I st...Thanks for the endorsement (and the traffic)! I started Data Driven Gamer less than a year ago and I'm still finding my groove, but I've always been a chronology nut, and a very big fan of data. Some 15 years ago I decided to organize my backlog and play chronologically, and it only seems to have grown faster than I could finish them. From there, a lot like what you did in 2011, I decided to go all in on the backlog, fill it with nearly everything I might ever want to play, and leverage that into something people might enjoy reading.<br /><br />Two corrections regarding DND/Telengard -<br /><br />DND's dungeons are also randomly seeded with both monsters and treasure. With a light spell or torch, you can see them appear on the map on tiles adjacent to you. Monsters also randomly appear with every step you take, and sometimes drop treasure when killed, but you won't find random loose treasure except on seeded tiles.<br /><br />Telengard's dungeon, at least in its 1981/1982 PET incarnation, is not random (just procedural), and you'll never find things like thrones, fountains, and altars without exploring. Someone actually made an interactive map of that monstrosity.<br />http://elm-telengard.blogspot.com/2014/03/the-dungeon.htmlAhabhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04131989140638867919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-40647961001047571322019-02-17T07:14:02.976-05:002019-02-17T07:14:02.976-05:00I love these posts, too. I have a feeling a lot of...I love these posts, too. I have a feeling a lot of what you find on the topic on the internet is just derived from Matt Barton's book, which is fine, but it means errors and inaccuracies will be copied, too. Buckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07270991090065636515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-86510711511047454992019-02-17T07:02:08.796-05:002019-02-17T07:02:08.796-05:00There's a nice page that visualises influences...There's a nice page that visualises influences between roguelikes. It lists Lawrence's DND as an implied influence, but I'm not sure what this is based on. Most similarities can probably be explained by the common Dungeons and Dragons roots and by the terminal interface.<br /><br />https://spaxe.github.io/roguelike-universe/#DNDBuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07270991090065636515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-6624922828076686342019-02-17T03:59:44.483-05:002019-02-17T03:59:44.483-05:00The next mystery I would like to see solved is wha...The next mystery I would like to see solved is what connection Rogue has, if any, with the PLATO games.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00137804144723151368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-38134757207592545342019-02-16T16:53:12.004-05:002019-02-16T16:53:12.004-05:00Wonderful post. It's always so great to see co...Wonderful post. It's always so great to see concrete, accurate information win the day over received wisdom and fudged half-truths. PK Thunderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14416777230563913195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-86318440788477812192019-02-16T08:38:53.200-05:002019-02-16T08:38:53.200-05:00A twisted history indeed...
Your only remaking ch...A twisted history indeed...<br /><br />Your only remaking challenge now is to track down a playable copy of m199h! Which may be only a legend that never existed...<br />arthurdawghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04269435724709435094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-55358681719323288502019-02-16T06:29:43.346-05:002019-02-16T06:29:43.346-05:00Wow, VMS. That takes me back. Years ago I manage...Wow, VMS. That takes me back. Years ago I managed a server running that. It's weird to think that it actually had games that would run on it.Menigalnoreply@blogger.com