tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post5654847606286230813..comments2024-03-29T02:34:55.592-04:00Comments on The CRPG Addict: WarWizard: Mapping from AboveCRPG Addicthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-52366101325238947252022-02-04T12:08:32.762-05:002022-02-04T12:08:32.762-05:00It was a big deal in Bard's Tale 2 (1986). At ...It was a big deal in Bard's Tale 2 (1986). At least it was to me. It didn't remember the map though. So if you logged out and logged back in (or maybe even just going between levels, I don't remember), the map was blank again. So it basically just helped with your own mapping. Check the automap occasionally and make sure that it matched what you had.Iambicnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-37936965982627284972022-01-13T05:31:01.804-05:002022-01-13T05:31:01.804-05:00I'm finding it a challenge managing the time p...I'm finding it a challenge managing the time phasing of spells. Hopefully you'll discuss this in some in your "magic" session.Rangeroushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05384980667033682190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-55962063768742760902022-01-11T22:22:12.691-05:002022-01-11T22:22:12.691-05:00I guess I just have a very good geographic memory....I guess I just have a very good geographic memory. I managed to explore pretty much everything in the recently released Gothic 2 mod Chronicles of Myrtana: Archolos without even taking any notes. According to Steam it took me 110 hours to beat, and it has little handholding and many hidden places, as well as dangerous locations near the starting area so you always have a reason to come back later.<br /><br />Whenever I leveled up enough to be able to meet the next-higher challenges, I'd go through my memory and try to remember places I had to avoid the last time I went out exploring. The cave with skeletons next to the vineyard... the troll cave near the mountain bridge... the west side of the beach with the fire lizards... the swamp in the southeast near the woodcutters' camp... the cave behind the waterfall near Silbach...<br /><br />Of course, Gothic 2 is a more modern game with full 3D graphics and free movement so navigation is inherently different from a tile based top-down game of the early 90s. But I didn't need to use a detailed map (beyond the cloth map that came with the game) in any of the Ultimas I played, either. If World of Xeen hadn't had an automap, I would have played that one without a map too since it has enough environmental variety to make navigation easy.<br /><br />I don't mind the risk of missing a dungeon or two, especially if they're not mandatory, by not mapping. I find the task of creating detailed tile-perfect maps too much effort to bother, unless it's a game focused on small dungeon levels (Eye of the Beholder, early Wizardry). The enjoyment gained from guaranteed 100%ing of every tile in the game would be less than the enjoyment lost through constantly breaking the flow of gameplay to work on a map. JarlFrankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08139422412722665286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-28905868553834510142022-01-11T12:50:59.005-05:002022-01-11T12:50:59.005-05:00That's true. I guess I'd just find going i...That's true. I guess I'd just find going into the image properties and manually adjusting the starting position of each screenshot more annoying than doing it the way I'm doing it.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-52756090726052525762022-01-11T12:48:41.485-05:002022-01-11T12:48:41.485-05:00I wish I had the programming acumen to do somethin...I wish I had the programming acumen to do something like that.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-47867410640701446222022-01-11T12:47:39.031-05:002022-01-11T12:47:39.031-05:00I would love not to have to make a map to ensure I...I would love not to have to make a map to ensure I've found everything. That's certainly possible with a lot of modern games, which do give you more information about how to get to places. I just don't think this game is that far along. As I say, "Important cities and dungeons are found in the middle of dense swamps and forests at the ends of hidden mountain trails." I feel if you don't have some way to keep track of where you've explored, you're just inviting frustration.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-76750915498516644632022-01-11T12:45:22.524-05:002022-01-11T12:45:22.524-05:00Yes. There are others that appear in grassland; I ...Yes. There are others that appear in grassland; I just didn't happen to have a screen shot of them. The water is the more important part.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-10700500481769385692022-01-11T12:44:45.387-05:002022-01-11T12:44:45.387-05:00I've tried to hand-draw basic maps before, but...I've tried to hand-draw basic maps before, but I have a lot of problems. Without knowing the shape and size of the world, you don't know where to start the map on the page. My distance estimations are always off enough that I screw up the basic shape of the continent, which means the map ends up not really helping. Ultimately, the process ends with a lot of crumpled up pieces of paper on the floor. I'd rather take longer and have an accurate map. CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-8496556977926950032022-01-11T12:40:40.791-05:002022-01-11T12:40:40.791-05:00yes, that's possible. I was just fixated on ma...yes, that's possible. I was just fixated on mapping that I didn't do it.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-76655318073518557612022-01-11T12:39:46.394-05:002022-01-11T12:39:46.394-05:00The trick to stitching together screenshots is bas...The trick to stitching together screenshots is basically math. If you find the size of the viewport in pixels - 352x224 for this game - and tiles - 11x7, I'm pretty sure - you can find the size of an individual tile (32x32), and then you know that each new screen is going to be positioned 352 or 224 pixels away from the previous one if it's an entire screen away, or some other multiple of 32 pixels if not.<br /><br />And that lets you be pixel-perfect by giving you a mathematical check to know you did it right each time.Imbanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06368233257720374201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-53686611138910302442022-01-11T12:02:09.640-05:002022-01-11T12:02:09.640-05:00Vg gryyf lbh gung gur Vaare Fnapghz vf abg ba gur ...Vg gryyf lbh gung gur Vaare Fnapghz vf abg ba gur znc. Nf gur cynlre yrneaf, gur fhccyvrq znc vf vzcresrpg - lrg gur tnzr nyfb pbagnvaf gjb cynprf gung pnaabg or *cynprq* ba gur znc (Nfgeny Cynar, Fbhy Znmr).philosopher-animalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16505629919126188962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-45759786990845366412022-01-11T11:59:58.877-05:002022-01-11T11:59:58.877-05:00When did automap become common? I remember it seem...When did automap become common? I remember it seemed liked a big deal for MMII vs I. (1988 / 1986). I also liked how MMI gave a very interesting clue on its box concerning supplied maps ...<br />philosopher-animalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16505629919126188962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-24535894898986375262022-01-11T10:25:49.065-05:002022-01-11T10:25:49.065-05:00I was going to say the same thing. Who said there...I was going to say the same thing. Who said there had to be a pixel-perfect map? I think our host's obsessiveness is getting the better of him. As long as a map has features that can be used to navigate, it is a useful map. Just map impassible mountains, rivers, roads, towns, dungeons, etc. Don't need every shrub in the land. If a pond is useful as a landmark, then into the map it goes. Simplify...Harlandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-33547447013848550692022-01-11T10:05:15.917-05:002022-01-11T10:05:15.917-05:00Also the Ultima map mainly makes sense. There’s la...Also the Ultima map mainly makes sense. There’s landmarks across the world which aren’t repeated, and a general sense of location. For all his flaws, Richard Garriott has a pretty good knack for making a believable world given the restrictionsDeanohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17030651394605861730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-73503990372582072812022-01-11T07:10:32.787-05:002022-01-11T07:10:32.787-05:00Space Hulk is a good game but I don't think it...Space Hulk is a good game but I don't think it has any RPG elements.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-21571378038766206762022-01-10T14:41:19.740-05:002022-01-10T14:41:19.740-05:00I wonder if using recording software would help so...I wonder if using recording software would help somehow?Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17469733830517678716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-15825131841967621542022-01-10T13:05:57.111-05:002022-01-10T13:05:57.111-05:00Yeah, but most Ultima games have the advantage tha...Yeah, but most Ultima games have the advantage that there's roads going to most major locations. So instead of making a full map, you can just make a rough outline of where the roads go to find your way around.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-85863557072915490042022-01-10T11:39:41.894-05:002022-01-10T11:39:41.894-05:00I don't think I ever really worried about mapp...I don't think I ever really worried about mapping in the Ultimas... <br /><br />Wizardy and Bard's Tale were another matter!arthurdawghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04269435724709435094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-17674562055711729972022-01-10T08:40:44.362-05:002022-01-10T08:40:44.362-05:00'Chester is now starving'...now THAT is wh...'Chester is now starving'...now THAT is what I call dedication to map making!minandohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14447689252911339858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-1770621525422015452022-01-10T08:13:37.181-05:002022-01-10T08:13:37.181-05:00I made my Ultima II & III maps by stitching to...I made my Ultima II & III maps by stitching together screenshots, but with help from some scripts I wrote. The logic went something like this:<br />* Ask how many steps I went left/right since the last screenshot<br />* Ask how many steps I went up/down since the last screenshot<br />* Find the most recent file in the folder<br />* Copy the part of it with map data into memory<br />* Replace the pixels in the avatar tile with transparency<br />* Paste it into the map file using offsets calculated from the movement vector input<br /><br /><br />It's not fast, but it's way more efficient than stitching them by hand, and probably more so than drawing in Excel.Ahabhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04131989140638867919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-53684902241591045622022-01-10T07:46:22.591-05:002022-01-10T07:46:22.591-05:00It depends on the game's visual presentation f...It depends on the game's visual presentation for me. Any Wizardry up to 7 requires mapping not to get lost, because there are no recognizable landmarks as such. Everything is corridors with only 2 or 3 tilesets in total: one for towns, one for dungeons, one for wilderness. Nothing is visually distinct enough to allow easy navigation by landmarks.<br /><br />Top down games are easier because they show bigger areas, so you can recognize the shape of the landscape. Still, early iconographic games like the first couple of Ultimas lack detail and variety in their tilesets so many regions look samey.<br /><br />But once we hit the early 90s with colorful 256 color graphics, mapless navigation becomes a lot easier. JarlFrankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08139422412722665286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-38037098777871932022022-01-10T05:21:46.384-05:002022-01-10T05:21:46.384-05:00This would be my approach as well. Even with a com...This would be my approach as well. Even with a complex geography and mountains blocking your line-of-sight, a crude hand drawn map, notes and memory should be sufficient.<br /><br />The biggest drawback of such an approach is that such a map often isn't meaningful for other people. Usually not an issue, unless you're writing a walkthrough about this game. Or a blog...<br /><br />For a walkthrough or blog, if the game offers anything like the crystals or map spell in Fate, I would use these + screen shot to create a world map. If not, I'd say don't bother with that map, it'll take too much time to create a good map and the reward is too small. Didiernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-10626978942767368982022-01-09T23:12:18.909-05:002022-01-09T23:12:18.909-05:00I find that not having a map enhances my experienc...I find that not having a map enhances my experience. I (almost) never make maps and disable minimaps whenever possible. I'll try to learn the landmarks and navigate by them, and if I miss small things I still have the potential to be surprised by discoveries when I have to come back through an area.<br /><br />Of course, I'm not blogging my way through ~10,000 of these games.Brenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07650899016493335364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-33221934146039863162022-01-09T22:13:44.728-05:002022-01-09T22:13:44.728-05:00For me at least, the entire purpose of mapping in ...For me at least, the entire purpose of mapping in a game like Wizardry is to produce the sort of top down view that games like these give you from the start. I can't say I've ever attempted to map a top-down game.<br /><br />With one exception - my brother and I mapped the Underworld in Ultima 5 and some of the dungeons in Ultima 6. Our procedure there was to use gems and just sketch what we saw roughly on several sheets of paper. With weren't concerned with tile-to-graph accuracy.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08236674968994362673noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-86527542223529171822022-01-09T20:17:14.935-05:002022-01-09T20:17:14.935-05:00I rarely feel the need to map unless it's a fi...I rarely feel the need to map unless it's a first person game where many hallways look the same and I absolutely need to map to orient myself.<br /><br />In a top down game, I usually get a good enough overview of the region I'm in that I can just follow the rough map I've made in my mind. If I start out in Bumbleville and discover mountains in the north, I know the mountains are north of Bumbleville. If the sea is to the south, great, I already have a workable mental map for the most obvious features of the landscape. Then come the cities: Drudoburgh is to the east of Bumbleville. Tippytown is in between the two.<br /><br />I have a good enough geographic memory that I don't need to make a map for this kind of game. Knowing the locations of important places in relation to each other is enough. I might take some notes in a Word document to remind myself where places are in relation to each other, and which quests are connected to them (e.g. the Green Sorceress in Drudoburgh told me to hunt down the stone troll somewhere in the Bleak Mountains; they are north of Bumbleville).<br /><br />Never had any problems with that method. JarlFrankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08139422412722665286noreply@blogger.com