tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post5641828700775428442..comments2024-03-28T20:51:01.807-04:00Comments on The CRPG Addict: Game 476: SOTE: Shadow of the Evil (1993)CRPG Addicthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comBlogger81125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-60704648060808075042022-12-06T13:57:11.896-05:002022-12-06T13:57:11.896-05:00@Chet: No worries! I didn't realize Avecta was...@Chet: No worries! I didn't realize <i>Avecta</i> was so devoid of development -- I see it doesn't even give XP for fights, if I understand it correctly? (<i>Virtual Hydlide</i> does the same thing, so at least you never have to even consider playing that one!)<br /><br />I imagine you can see how I mistook <i>Avecta</i> for a CRPG, as it takes pains to present itself as one. Others have been fooled too, it seems, as all the usual indices list it as one. Don't know what I'd call it instead: a pseudo-RPG, I guess?<br /><br />@Arthegall: I personally don't look forward to entries on the most famous games nearly as much as I look forward to learning about something interesting I've never heard of. (Selfishly, I also prefer old-school, limited-tech aesthetics and gameplay to newer game styles.) But, I understand your point of view.<br /><br />@fireball: Thanks!PK Thunderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14416777230563913195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-14830004381959462552022-12-06T05:14:35.033-05:002022-12-06T05:14:35.033-05:00Great comment PK, 100% agreed and couldn't hav...Great comment PK, 100% agreed and couldn't have said it any better. Which doesn't mean I'm not glad to see Chet rejecting games which clearly lack any substantial RPG ingredients. fireballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01094871771537115267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-55507888653468226322022-12-05T22:28:57.861-05:002022-12-05T22:28:57.861-05:00I get what you're saying PK, but it doesn'...I get what you're saying PK, but it doesn't seem sustainable for Chet or honestly very interesting (to me at least) to have him continually rehashing the 80s.<br /><br />I want a Deus Ex GIMLET before he hangs up his cleats--should that day ever come--nevermind one for Oblivion and WoW.Arthegallnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-68924714306587520842022-12-05T22:19:18.368-05:002022-12-05T22:19:18.368-05:00But I appreciate your comments on the blog.But I appreciate your comments on the blog.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-31982499184188271612022-12-05T22:18:58.060-05:002022-12-05T22:18:58.060-05:00"That doesn't mean I want to see Chet spe..."That doesn't mean I want to see Chet spend 20 hours on an unplayable shareware title." In that spirit, PK, I'm afraid I've had to reject <i>Avecta</i>. No character development--not even any attributes. I hated the interface, too.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-16183687722451700912022-12-05T21:55:07.177-05:002022-12-05T21:55:07.177-05:00Interesting post, Arthegall, as my experience is d...Interesting post, Arthegall, as my experience is different. For me the most memorable posts are the ones that are in some way distinctive, be the experience a positive one or a negative one.<br /><br />Sometimes the Addict brings something distinctive in his writing to an unremarkable game, but usually it's the experience of playing the game itself -- whether its content or its hassles -- that seems to be the trigger for a memorable entry, at least for me.<br /><br />Per your #2, my philosophical objection is this: you don't know what's insignificant <i>until you play it</i>. After all, the 1982 game of the year is on a minor platform often viewed with mild disdain. Easy enough to say "Nothing of value ever happened on that stupid machine" and never give it a look, right?<br /><br />I've worked on several projects not dissimilar to Chet's, including one that required me to spend hundreds of hours going through a massive archive of media and writing a detailed review of every single one. Sure, 95% of the time, my first impressions were correct and obvious crap was crap.<br /><br />But it's that 5% that gets you -- the 5% that doesn't present itself well but turns out to be awesome, or unusual, or at least interesting. I can't tell you how often I found that most reviewers seemingly hadn't actually watched, played, read, or listened to the work in question, but instead had relied on everyone else's received wisdom, right down to basic factual errors.<br /><br />The fact that Chet <i>doesn't</i> do that is the fundamental key to this blog for me. We don't need more reviewers in any medium who take shortcuts, and Chet is generally a breath of fresh air in that regard. That doesn't mean I want to see Chet spend 20 hours on an unplayable shareware title, but it does mean that I appreciate the fact that he takes the time to investigate each title for himself, whether it's famous or obscure, critically-acclaimed or reviled, and makes up his own mind.<br /><br />(It's the job of commenters, I suppose, to help filter that list according to his criteria. That's part of why people get weird about those criteria -- taking them seriously, and wanting to get it right -- but the danger of lapsing into some kind of weird legalistic thing is always present.)PK Thunderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14416777230563913195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-4481254056307846882022-12-05T17:04:52.245-05:002022-12-05T17:04:52.245-05:00Chet, I've followed your blog for a long time....Chet, I've followed your blog for a long time. I'm just one guy, but for what it's worth, a couple points.<br /><br />1) I'd much rather read you when you're having fun rather than when you're performing joyless historical chores. The posts that have stuck with me and that I've come back to again and again have been the ones about games I loved or that you loved.<br /><br />2) To me the most useful, unique, and interesting part of this blog is the grand sweep of CRPG history written by a single voice against a single set of criteria, not a detailed accounting of every minute shareware title created for every minor platform. I'm here for the GIMLETs that tell the meaningful progression of CRPGs through time, not the GIMLETs that waste your talent and experience on CRPGs that were thrown together by people with a fraction of your knowledge and experience and played by fewer people than read this blog.<br /><br />Arthegallnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-29077580082250675262022-12-05T12:52:12.921-05:002022-12-05T12:52:12.921-05:00@The Wargaming Scribe I certainly appreciated that...@The Wargaming Scribe I certainly appreciated that you correctly associated Lederhosen with Bavaria instead of Germany in general.Buckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12184390528952633384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-19218464319951799562022-12-05T08:12:51.911-05:002022-12-05T08:12:51.911-05:00MK, I didn't see your original comment before ...MK, I didn't see your original comment before you deleted it, so I'll just say based on your second one I'm wondering if you had a bad day.<br /><br />Regarding your argument in that latter one, yes, mistakes are made and indeed often get replicated elsewhere like anything else. That's a general problem not limited to mobygames as TWS' example above illustrates. And yes, that can be frustrating sometimes.<br /><br />However, the realistic alternative to me would be not that everybody becomes perfect, but that people are turned off due to criticism and stop adding to such sites for free in their spare time. Instead of an impressive database with some errors, we'd then have no database or a woefully incomplete and sparse one, the result being you'd have to search much more in many more cases. To me it's clear which scenario I prefer and even if some mistakes or shortcomings on/of mobygames might be frustrating at times, I still think it's great many people contribute to it.<br /><br />Hope you get over this and we go back to jointly commenting on all the interesting subjects this blog brings up through its articles and comment section.<br />(And @TWS: I hope you are not discouraged from posting further tongue-in-cheek comments. I found it pretty funny.)Buscanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-48760066173835379852022-12-05T06:10:02.715-05:002022-12-05T06:10:02.715-05:00A peculiar hill to die on, MK
I did not expect to ...A peculiar hill to die on, MK<br />I did not expect to create such a acrimonious response from what was a tongue-in-cheek comment. I feel like those who document every single game in Mobygames are doing the Lord's work, and Hoeksma that I mentionned because he contributed so much actually put screenshoots of a session of all the games he adds to the database, so it is really helpful to find the game you would be looking for.<br /><br />Generally speaking, it is weird to blame Mobygames for something every other site is doing (going for quantity rather than quality / proof of existence, and not being very strict on the categories). Overall, I find Mobygames better than Wikipedia, and it has much less of an impact. The <br />Selft promotion moment (https://zeitgame.net/archives/5036) : The most dramatic example may be Cosmic Conquest. TLDR, a lot of video game "experts" (big youtubers, video game "journalists" and even research paper / thesis) started from 2015 to state that a game called Cosmic Conquest was one of the most important precursors of RTS. Now, fun-fact : the game is not a RTS, and absolutely no one had played that game (because it was de facto lost until 2021), they just kept one another's "research" on the topic without checking it, and the first of those "researcher" had found the game on the Wikipedia RTS list and then added a few random comments to pretend he or she had played it for real. Why was it on Wikipedia as a RTS ? Someone had found it on Archives.org and trusted the "marketing" description of the game. To this day, Cosmic Conquest is not on Mobygames where the criteria for inclusion are actually stronger.<br />Less dramatically, War of Nerves! is improperly called a RTS on Wikipedia (source : an old Mobygames-like called allgame.com), but not on Mobygames, so again Mobygames beat Wikipedia.<br /><br />But now, I am the one ranting so I will stop here and just say I praise Mobygames for existing and the hundred of anonymous contributors for adding games in it, whatever the quality of said games.The Wargaming Scribehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00999437557611608368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-87095300535810011792022-12-05T03:20:16.282-05:002022-12-05T03:20:16.282-05:00Wow MK, passive aggressive much?Wow MK, passive aggressive much?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-91261260068211124662022-12-05T00:05:51.486-05:002022-12-05T00:05:51.486-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.MorpheusKitamihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16591271981112642781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-20323597187122016942022-12-04T21:50:04.507-05:002022-12-04T21:50:04.507-05:00In other words, criticizing people for using a web...In other words, criticizing people for using a web site as it was intended to be use is both unfair and futile. It's more reasonable to expect me to change my approach than for MG and its contributors to change theirs.<br /><br />I realize this contradicts several rants I've made in the past, but those were made it fits of pique, whereas right now I'm calm and rational. I still do criticize MG, however, for allowing entries on games for which there is no proof they existed.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-58117306221170700572022-12-04T21:47:42.338-05:002022-12-04T21:47:42.338-05:00TWG wasn't being literal on "theme of the...TWG wasn't being literal on "theme of the month." He was just remarking that games tend to be added in batches as they're discovered in catalogues or shovelware disks or whatever.<br /><br />While I have been prone to such thoughts as MK's in the past, it is important to keep in mind that:<br /><br />A) MobyGames does not exist to service my blog.<br /><br />B) Its goal is to be as comprehensive as possible, so newly discovered games belong in its database.<br /><br />C) Genre definitions are sometimes kind of difficult for many early games. Getting them wrong has consequences for my blog, but I'm one of the few people for which it has consequences, and see Item A.<br />CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-54786274859058685332022-12-04T21:29:17.885-05:002022-12-04T21:29:17.885-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.MorpheusKitamihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16591271981112642781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-32780810990487850872022-12-04T04:27:09.605-05:002022-12-04T04:27:09.605-05:00LOL - and probably true.LOL - and probably true.Buscanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-22839061493775220252022-12-04T04:15:46.009-05:002022-12-04T04:15:46.009-05:00The dynamics of the list in the last 5 years or so...The dynamics of the list in the last 5 years or so :<br /><br />[CRPG Addict] Great ! I have finished 1983 ! Again !<br />[Mobygames] The theme of this month is : Exidy Sorcerer games ! We feel like we don't have enough of them<br />[Hoeksma] Exidy Sorcerer ? Let me check my secret stash... I think I have at least 40 of those ! No time to check in detail. The first screen of these look like Temple of Apshai so I will tag them all as "RPG"<br />[CRPG Addict] What are all those games that appeared on Mobygames ? Exidy Sorcerer ? EXIDY SORCERER ? HOW AM I GOING TO EMULATE THAT !<br /><br />[...]<br /><br />1 year later :<br />[CRPG Addict] Great ! I have finished 1983 ! Again !<br />[Mobygames] The theme of this month is : Bavarian games ! We feel like we don't have enough of them.<br />[Hoeksma] : Bavarian games ? Hey, my copies of the Telespiel & Lederhosen magazine I bought on ebay are going to be handyThe Wargaming Scribehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00999437557611608368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-8628408827411393272022-12-04T04:14:13.710-05:002022-12-04T04:14:13.710-05:00@Chet: I'm not actively following this, but at...@Chet: I'm not actively following this, but at least for the 80s as mentioned by Fireball I didn't think there are still that many 'new' games added which 1) are classified as RPGs and 2) fulfill your criteria so you can't reject them immediately out of hand since no one will ask about them here or limit to a BRIEF if you think it's worth the time.<br /><br />This is just repeating what has been discussed more than once before, but I think the key will be to apply your criteria more strictly (your tighter definition of 'CRPG' since March and - if I recall correctly - the option to directly reject games which are clearly amateur efforts that add nothing new) and at the same time use the 'six hour rule' (or 'sux hour rule') on games that are a pain from the start or where it's clear after that time it'll just be a long boring slog, overcoming your (understandable) urge to win as many (numbered) games as possible.Buscanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-4864227972373698752022-12-03T22:20:34.057-05:002022-12-03T22:20:34.057-05:00As another possibility, if 1993 is just too full o...As another possibility, if 1993 is just too full of dross, you can change your criterion for "completing" a year. Perhaps it's enough to play 2/3 of that year's games, including all its famous ones. This would also increase your freedom moving forward, since you'd retain the option to dip back into 1993 like you're doing with previous years.Lhexanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-38223394813566938762022-12-03T20:10:43.748-05:002022-12-03T20:10:43.748-05:00That really isn't possible. New games are curr...That really isn't possible. New games are currently being added to the databases faster than my ability to play them. Maybe that will change at some point in the future, but for now, getting to even 90% is a pipe dream.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-87407954538831583222022-12-03T18:18:20.938-05:002022-12-03T18:18:20.938-05:00Could "Get-hold" and "Put-Swap"...Could "Get-hold" and "Put-Swap" be something like "hold the mouse button down while dragging items around" vs. "click once to swap the item that is glued to the cursor with the item underneath (or nothing)"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-91138636546525622402022-12-03T15:46:40.014-05:002022-12-03T15:46:40.014-05:00I remember the early 90s here in Germany when I st...I remember the early 90s here in Germany when I still had a C64 and no PC as the late and last active era for the old "Brotkasten". Almost all big publishers had since then lost interest but in their place was an active scene of indie developers, most of them working for or publishing through (disk) magazines. Besides C64er there were those magazines directly published on a 5.25" like Game On and Magic Disk 64 together with one or more indie games. The same publisher offered a special issue called Golden Disk 64 which had like premium game for a higher price and no magazine content. Of course many of these cheap games were forgettable, but a surprising amount was in fact competently programmed and offered enough fun I still remember them fondly even today. Die Dunkle Dimension which you played already was also part of these. Back then I envied the rich kids with their PC's but now I'm glad I witnessed what I'd call a thriving indie era for an almost dead computer which I'm sure prolonged its "life"for many like me who still hadn't got the chance to switch to the Amiga or PC. fireballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01094871771537115267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-29278530741627528672022-12-03T13:28:02.629-05:002022-12-03T13:28:02.629-05:00I know the C64 was popular in Germany, but it'...I know the C64 was popular in Germany, but it's remarkable that this magazine ran until 1996. This game was published the same year as DOOM, a game designed for 32-bit processors running at around 50MHz.<br /><br />Even the C128 was still using 8-bit CPUs designed in the 1970s.Tillnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-74534976583906500302022-12-03T11:42:49.608-05:002022-12-03T11:42:49.608-05:00Well, I have to disagree with anon, Iwas honestly ...Well, I have to disagree with anon, Iwas honestly looking forward to a 99.99999% 80s finished moment in this blog (with only the then new additions left because as you said the list never ends). Maybe a good Idea would be to wrap up the last non-indie non-freeware published 80s games if there are any left parallel to taking a more lenient approach to the 90s and beyond as you said you would do in the past. As in not playing games in the order of release and hand picking what you play in the future. So you can switch between modern and good games and the dreg more freely. fireballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01094871771537115267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-33156301681385602862022-12-03T10:32:46.887-05:002022-12-03T10:32:46.887-05:00That's probably how I'd handle a dragon in...That's probably how I'd handle a dragon in real life, so I dunno about that. Just piling claymores around its ankles while it's asleep and blowing its ankles to kingdom come the second it wakes up. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com