tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post2472713337317842465..comments2024-03-28T07:13:19.910-04:00Comments on The CRPG Addict: Serpent Isle: Red and Yellow, Kill a FellowCRPG Addicthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comBlogger85125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-36086824955810419682023-04-15T23:48:55.391-04:002023-04-15T23:48:55.391-04:00I fed in the same prompt:
****
Verse 1:
In Sosar...I fed in the same prompt:<br /><br />****<br /><br />Verse 1:<br />In Sosaria, a sorcerer came<br />Mondain was his name, he sought fame<br />With the Gem of Immortality, he aimed to reign<br />And so began his dark and deadly game<br /><br />Chorus:<br />Mondain, oh Mondain<br />His evil power was hard to contain<br />Mondain, oh Mondain<br />A villain that will forever remain<br /><br />Verse 2:<br />His heart was black, his magic strong<br />His thirst for power drove him along<br />He created monsters, wrought pain and wrong<br />And for years, the land was in his throng<br /><br />Chorus:<br />Mondain, oh Mondain<br />His evil power was hard to contain<br />Mondain, oh Mondain<br />A villain that will forever remain<br /><br />Verse 3:<br />But a hero, a stranger from afar<br />Came to challenge Mondain's dark star<br />With sword and spell, he fought hard<br />Till Mondain's reign was forever scarred<br /><br />Chorus:<br />Mondain, oh Mondain<br />His evil power was hard to contain<br />Mondain, oh Mondain<br />A villain that will forever remain<br /><br />Verse 4:<br />And though Mondain is long gone<br />His legacy lives on and on<br />A reminder of evil, of what can go wrong<br />And the courage needed to be strong<br /><br />Chorus:<br />Mondain, oh Mondain<br />His evil power was hard to contain<br />Mondain, oh Mondain<br />A villain that will forever remain<br /><br />*****<br /><br />I can't say much for the meter, but I'm sure that will improve in the next version.<br />CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-67237141737128938182023-04-04T02:06:12.033-04:002023-04-04T02:06:12.033-04:00@stepped pyramids:
I bet he tried to pay her 130,0...@stepped pyramids:<br />I bet he tried to pay her 130,000 guilders to buy her silence.judd9https://www.blogger.com/profile/05775399294060687430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-34984370889653568012023-03-29T11:31:55.452-04:002023-03-29T11:31:55.452-04:00One could rotate the original and then patch in so...One could rotate the original and then patch in some minor differences. Assuming the patches were small, would still save a fair amount of space.Iffy Bonzooliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07519858732154180575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-64086239449923317542023-03-29T11:26:52.878-04:002023-03-29T11:26:52.878-04:00Wind a toy, not blowing wind... tricky!Wind a toy, not blowing wind... tricky!Iffy Bonzooliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07519858732154180575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-3133032461542492482023-03-23T01:34:47.112-04:002023-03-23T01:34:47.112-04:00Haha! Brilliant 👏 Haha! Brilliant 👏 Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09555164129781347046noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-1198384947126404272023-03-22T04:46:07.221-04:002023-03-22T04:46:07.221-04:00@Harland Isn't it one of the reasons, why Bob ...@Harland Isn't it one of the reasons, why Bob Dylan received Nobel prize in literature? Mabfredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18362987460907781274noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-41324522760314088482023-03-21T22:37:27.636-04:002023-03-21T22:37:27.636-04:00"What's a Paladin" is often lumped i..."What's a Paladin" is often lumped in with the continuity issues, when really I think it is more of an issue in adapting the style of the game - there's a similar issue where the world seems emptier even in places where it contains all the same individual things as previous games, because the greater abstraction of the older games leads the player to think of the three houses and half-dozen NPCs as being abstractions of what is "really" a larger town and larger cast, while the more richly drawn and eventually 3D-rendered world seems to be saying, "No, this really is a town of six people". In an earlier game, we're expressing the same ludologic intent by typing >PALADIN at a dialogue prompt, but there's the abstraction layer in there that minimizes our experience of the exchange as really being "The Avatar does not know what his job is".Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09703211229982182936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-44452909716117075242023-03-21T20:18:22.518-04:002023-03-21T20:18:22.518-04:00And regarding "what's a paladin?" Th...And regarding "what's a paladin?" The content of the line doesn't bother me as much as it bothers others, but the delivery makes the Avatar sound so utterly gormless that I had to turn off sound after that conversation. I just couldn't accept that that idiot was in any way my Avatar.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08236674968994362673noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-46861182148738656542023-03-21T20:09:18.889-04:002023-03-21T20:09:18.889-04:00All good points above, but I wasn't referring ...All good points above, but I wasn't referring to lore when I said the impression U9 gave me was that the devs hadn't played an Ultima before. I was referring to the fact that most previous Ultimas (perhaps excluding 1and 2, but including to some extent Pagan) were open-world games with realistic environments, and dense layers of interactivity. Ultimas weren't beaten, so much as solved. Combat was largely avoidable or irrelevant (with notable exceptions). You played an Ultima by talking to NPCs, gathering clues and relics, and then performing some sort of ritual. U9 had some of this, but the bulk of the game was just crawling through dungeons in sequence. The towns were largely empty. Buildings had nothing in them. Everything felt shallow, small, and empty instead of deep, wide, and lush.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08236674968994362673noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-22406904541912496722023-03-21T14:08:12.725-04:002023-03-21T14:08:12.725-04:00I suppose it's similar to Chet's Cabbage T...I suppose it's similar to Chet's Cabbage Theory. When the game is reasonably abstract and lets you type in keywords, you can imagine the character asking about that topic in whatever way you want.<br /><br />But once a game supports fully written out dialogue topics with voice acting, we expect those to be literally what our main character says. And that includes the confused/ignorant tone of voice in the acting.Radianthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03866535042372152723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-11524936706229296572023-03-21T13:20:47.767-04:002023-03-21T13:20:47.767-04:00The "What's a paladin" U9 Spoony'...The "What's a paladin" U9 Spoony's video is clearly done with comedic intent and it should be taken with a pinch of salt; there is clearly a lot of excessive nitpicking and fake outrage in those videos although, having played U9 on release, being super-hyped about it, I must say they capture fairly well the sense of disappointment and "betrayal" that I felt as a fan of the series.<br /><br />As per that infamous line (and similar ones in that game), I can see "why" it can be considered similar to earlier Ultimas, but it cannot be denied that the execution is terrible. It is a criminally lazy form of exposition, and it's clear that they could not make the transition between "fully written" and "fully voiced" dialogue.<br /><br />The devs counted on the player's imagination to fill the blanks between the 'name', 'job' and 'bye', but once you take the road of fully voiced dialogue you cannot lazily translate those to explicit questions and call it a day.<br /><br />In a way it was still early days (with lots of "silent protagonists" as another easy cop out in other games), but U9 was an especially poor effort and quite easy to make fun of.<br /><br />Vincenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-69815891944733041842023-03-21T11:04:50.015-04:002023-03-21T11:04:50.015-04:00It has been remarked upon that from the general st...It has been remarked upon that from the general start and the outline of the plot, Ultima 9 would work much better as a sequel to the evil ending of Black Gate. It'd neatly explain the conquest of Britannia and the Avatar starting on Earth again. <br /><br />To be fair U9 takes *some* things from Serpent Isle and Pagan into account. Erikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00947258450306994754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-49715808930502252812023-03-21T10:58:06.424-04:002023-03-21T10:58:06.424-04:00Good point - I almost feel some of the cluebooks d...Good point - I almost feel some of the cluebooks deserve their own entry in the blog. <br /><br />The ones from U7 (both parts parts) and the Ultima Underworlds all include story beats you won't get elsewhere, e.g. a lot of the Garamon/Tyball backstory is from the cluebook. <br /><br />For Serpent Isle one thing that is a bit weird about the cluebook is that Thoxa comes across as a bit more vulnerable to persona like Filbercio, while in the game itself the Xenkan monks seem super powerful.Erikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00947258450306994754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-66092038677693210122023-03-21T10:46:36.242-04:002023-03-21T10:46:36.242-04:00I think U9 would have a legacy similar to Dark Mes...I think U9 would have a legacy similar to Dark Messiah of Might & Magic if it hadn't been the long-awaited series finale: seriously undermined by performance and stability issues when it came out, but after patches and the passage of time eventually attracting an audience that can appreciate its virtues (or at least who wants to speedrun it). The writing is bad but not egregiously so for a CRPG.<br /><br />Figuring out how to allow the player to ask about topics that the PC should be familiar with is tricky to be sure, but "what's a paladin?" isn't even trying. This is one of the unquestionable virtues of keyword dialogue and part of why abstract dialogue systems have come back into fashion (like in Mass Effect, Fallout 4, etc.). But there's really no reason you couldn't use a line like "How fare the honorable paladins of Trinsic?" to the same effect.<br /><br />Previous games would often call out the fact that the Avatar was, say, asking his good friend the bard Iolo what his name and job was, usually chalking it up to the passage of time. (Serpent Isle, more specifically Silver Seed, has a pretty funny take on this kind of dialogue.)stepped pyramidsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-63357217647677956102023-03-21T10:01:00.580-04:002023-03-21T10:01:00.580-04:00Sorry, meant to say Daggerfall and *Redguard*.Sorry, meant to say Daggerfall and *Redguard*.Erikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00947258450306994754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-3032294762174104412023-03-21T10:00:37.878-04:002023-03-21T10:00:37.878-04:00I agree with a lot of what you are saying on Lore,...I agree with a lot of what you are saying on Lore, except that a lot of the Elderscrolls Lore came from Daggerfall and Morrowind. Morrowind did a great job of building onto it though.. Oblivion not so much.<br /><br />And I think the Paladin voice line (and the one in LB's castle where the Avatar can ask about the gargoyles) are as bad as they sound. First off, no line in Ultima 9 is pre-hoc optional, since you don't know which will lead to critical data and not. It's not the same as a multiple response as you have in BG 2, where you simply select 1 out of 4. <br /><br />Secondly, as you say yourself it is written in a very clumsy way. There are well established ways in writing to convey information to the reader in a way that it is clear that the character is already aware of it.. clumsily handled this is the "As you know..." trope, but even that is better than the baffled tone of the Avatar in U9 when asking for basic information.Erikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00947258450306994754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-71300953421451747952023-03-21T09:22:22.839-04:002023-03-21T09:22:22.839-04:00what "it" came up withwhat "it" came up withThe Wargaming Scribehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00999437557611608368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-17378296789834574272023-03-21T09:21:18.078-04:002023-03-21T09:21:18.078-04:00I asked GPT-4 to write a sonnet about Mondain, usi...I asked GPT-4 to write a sonnet about Mondain, using his name for at least one rhyme. Here is what he came up with :<br /><br />Upon the land of Britannia, dark and plain,<br />A force, a terror, whispered—Mondain.<br />His grasp of evil magic, a foul lure,<br />Within the Ultima's world, a legend pure.<br /><br />The Moonstone's power, black and vile, contained,<br />A bond unholy, darkness unrestrained,<br />For Mondain, Avatar's bane, did conspire,<br />To forge the world in shadow, blackened fire.<br /><br />With gargoyle wings and daemon's fearful breath,<br />He built an army, courting brutal death,<br />The Eight Virtues, trampled in his wake,<br />To bend the world, its very core to break.<br /><br />In tales of Ultima, Mondain shall stand,<br />A symbol of the darkness in our land,<br />Glorified in legend, his story will remain,<br />As heroes rise to challenge, but in vain.<br /><br />So our future overlord has spoken : "Mondain" rhymes with "plain"The Wargaming Scribehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00999437557611608368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-37377302413426968322023-03-21T08:17:17.392-04:002023-03-21T08:17:17.392-04:00Thanks for bringing "What's a paladin?&qu...Thanks for bringing "What's a paladin?" up, Harland, because these days it perfectly describes how much some fans of Ultima get worked up about something in Ultima XI that... was absolutely normal up to (and maybe including, I can't quite remember that detail) Ultima VII. <br /><br />In the keyword-based Ultimas it was absolutely normal that when someone said e.g. "I'm a paladin", you could ask the keyword "paladin" right at them and get a more detailed description of what that was. And it was considered perfectly normal; after all, every single Ultima game could be the first for a new player who had never encountered the series beforehand, so they might legitimately ask themselves "What's a Paladin" in the context of the game world. (I *think* you could pick the keyword "Paladin" to that effect when talking to someone in Ultima VII as well, though I don't quite remember.)<br /><br />Nowadays some folk point at the "What's a Paladin?" and immediately cry "betrayal", as if it was absolutely common sense that everyone ever playing Ultima IX must have already been intrinsically familiar with Britain the Virtues and the world building of all Ultimas before ever laying their hands on the game. Completely forgetting in the process that in earlier games the Avatar could just be as forgetful about what a Paladin was. And never mind the fact that the line is *completely* optional and doesn't have to be chosen at all! But I guess having it written out and then voiced and literally spoken out makes it worse somehow.<br /><br />(Mind you, I'm not saying they couldn't have handled that better, just that including the line itself isn't such a big deal and certainly not the big "lore-breaker/stupid Avatar" moment some people love to make it out to be.El despertandohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05118364076533041282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-27924763785685146012023-03-21T06:34:31.021-04:002023-03-21T06:34:31.021-04:00the overwhelming impression I got from it was that...<i>the overwhelming impression I got from it was that it was made by people who had never played an Ultima and had probably never played an CRPG.</i><br /><br />Yeah, pretty much. It seemed more like a random console game. It would have been middling to poor had it been named "Fantasy Qwestio" and forgotten soon after release. I just never understood how Origin could spend so much time writing lore for their games and then completely ignore it. As an adult, now I understand that nobody cared and indeed there was contempt for anyone who took their drivel seriously. We deserved what we got. <br /><br />"What's a paladin?"Harlandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-52386971493718789652023-03-21T06:27:14.864-04:002023-03-21T06:27:14.864-04:00Mind doesn't rhyme with wind. They are two to...Mind doesn't rhyme with wind. They are two totally different pronunciations. But why does it need to? It's a poem.<br /><br />Poetry doesn't rhyme. Poets stopped doing that over a century ago. Walt Whitman and Ezra Pound put the dagger in the heart of that idea and it's been dead as a doornail ever since. What people really want is poetry that rhymes, and poets are absolutely steadfast about refusing to give it to them. Harlandnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-54691184331298697182023-03-21T05:04:49.756-04:002023-03-21T05:04:49.756-04:00Minax's meter is also terrible. Barely any two...Minax's meter is also terrible. Barely any two lines have the same flow. So it's not just the way she rhymes "Mondain" with "fountain", she simply outright sucks at poetry! El despertandohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05118364076533041282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-12315436912962327322023-03-21T05:01:23.650-04:002023-03-21T05:01:23.650-04:00My wife actually liked U9 when it came out. Thing ...My wife actually liked U9 when it came out. Thing is, she hadn't played any Ultima game before. When we eventually met, dated and pooled out game libraries (I happened to own 1-8, she only had 9), she was very surprised to hear that there was a lot of disappointment, disdain, even outright hate for Ultima 9 out there, which she couldn't really understand - it was by no means a great game for her, but she felt it was pretty good.<br /><br />It gave me a new perspective on how to look at Ultima canon, and what the Addict describes here actually solidifies my point of view: up until Ultima VII, Origin had never really paid much attention to canonicity themselves! Backstories and contexts were changed on the fly (so the Avatar was made the hero of the first three games retroactively? The presence of Mondain, Minax and Exodus in the Gargoyle underworld in VI messes up quite a bit of the previous setting. Not too mention cities moving around etc...). That hadn't been too much of an issue before though, I reckon not too many gamers in 1993 had many detailed memories about what had gone on in V, for example, especially since the earlier games were much more abstract in their storytelling.<br /><br />With VII and Serpent Isle in particular, however, Origin had gone out of their way to craft an expanded lore that weaved in previous games as well while also creating tons of flavor text that, some more, some less, just existed to flesh out the world. To my knowledge that had never been done to such an extent, and for many years after there still wouldn't be many games that managed to love up to that standards (The Elder Scrolls games only started to do something similar by the time Morrowind game out in 2002 - three years after U9 even!)<br /><br />The failure of the U9 development team in terms of canonicity, in my eyes, was not to the entirety of the series, but "just" to U7 and Serpent Isle - which had basically been the pinnacle in that regard that hardly any other game even attempted. By 1999, people could now also share stories and swap notes and trivia about games over the internet (hardly anyone could do that back in 1993/94). Also by 1999, the Ultima Collection on CD had come out - never before had it been so easy for a gamer to own all the previous games all at once!<br /><br /> Keeping all of that in mind, U9 had it extremely tough to live up to the high canonicity standards that, really, only U7 and Serpent Isle had set barely a few years ago. I'm not saying the developers couldn't have done a better job - but overall they didn't screw up as hard as everyone seems to imply all the time.El despertandohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05118364076533041282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-50838707721721470552023-03-21T03:55:56.268-04:002023-03-21T03:55:56.268-04:00Try pronouncing "fountain" to rhyme with...Try pronouncing "fountain" to rhyme with "vain" instead.Vogon Poetnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-72263249446165684612023-03-20T23:18:08.075-04:002023-03-20T23:18:08.075-04:00Hello. I just wanted to chime in and say I love yo...Hello. I just wanted to chime in and say I love your blog. I stop by from time-to-time to check it out. I particularly appreciate your efforts in showing the maps and screenshots. Thank you so much for your efforts at preserving these gems of history. Love you. xoPseudo Lisahttps://pseudolisa.weebly.com/noreply@blogger.com