tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post2061062353092825353..comments2024-03-28T15:25:30.216-04:00Comments on The CRPG Addict: Game 37: Mission: Mainframe (1987)CRPG Addicthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-72270766842394367102015-10-17T20:06:35.212-04:002015-10-17T20:06:35.212-04:00Well, this is certainly a blast from the past. Bri...Well, this is certainly a blast from the past. Brian Shankman is my uncle, and I remember playing this game as a kid (probably around '87). I'm pleasantly surprised to see that it's still out there and reviewed favorably!Fisting Andrew Golotahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10174929205153028971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-91092406873629003962015-03-21T07:49:58.584-04:002015-03-21T07:49:58.584-04:00I hate how the randomized equipment render money p...I hate how the randomized equipment render money pratically useless.BrazilRulesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-79627497683270877112013-10-10T03:11:41.083-04:002013-10-10T03:11:41.083-04:00I don't think Diablo was as universally belove...I don't think Diablo was as universally beloved as you imply, either -- sure it was popular, but there were and are plenty of people who don't like it. Personally, I love CRPGs, but I've never had any interest in Diablo. Or Roguelikes. (Or World of Warcraft, for that matter, speaking of popular CRPGs...)Jalen Wandererhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00973042209003357278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-1499597896073733482013-05-25T12:31:11.034-04:002013-05-25T12:31:11.034-04:00I think there are plenty of CRPG fans who don'...I think there are plenty of CRPG fans who don't like roguelikes as well as the other way around. This one isn't a very good example of a "roguelike," and as I cover later under <i>Wizard's Castle</i>, I don't even think the term applies well to this sub-genre. There ARE roguelikes with better stories and less randomness, although SOME randomness is inherent in the genre.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-49563042039505251922013-05-25T08:37:26.896-04:002013-05-25T08:37:26.896-04:00This will probably sound like heresy to some fello...This will probably sound like heresy to some fellow crpg fans, but the more I read about you playing roguelikes the more I loose any interest to even play a single one. I have to say I'm also one of perhaps two people on the world who didn't like Diablo. I just find no motivation in playing something without any story and that high amount of randomness.fireballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01094871771537115267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-70062182376997070692011-01-02T08:49:19.199-05:002011-01-02T08:49:19.199-05:00looks more like a hunt the wumpus variation. meh.looks more like a hunt the wumpus variation. meh.Stuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03746769788742751281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-32518648355840643452011-01-02T00:58:36.305-05:002011-01-02T00:58:36.305-05:00"I keep meaning to get together a "speci..."I keep meaning to get together a "special topics" posting on other CRPG blogs."<br /><br />Definitely a good idea. In terms of CRPG focused writing I'm only aware of this site, the @play column and a handful of primarily design oriented blogs. It would be nice to see what else is out there.Jordan7hmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-8957500696593309232011-01-01T22:51:47.046-05:002011-01-01T22:51:47.046-05:00I'm a fairly new reader of this blog, but I...I'm a fairly new reader of this blog, but I'd personnaly say #5 if you want to keep up with your <strong>long</strong> list of games to play. If ever you get addicted to a particular roguelike, then #4 looks good too...Georgeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10801694109856585537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-7966794054473539962011-01-01T18:58:19.283-05:002011-01-01T18:58:19.283-05:00Thanks for teaching me that you can use HTML in co...<i>Thanks for teaching me that you can use HTML in comments. I suppose I'm a bit of an idiot for not realizing it until now.</i>CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-15665089612121770022011-01-01T18:28:31.704-05:002011-01-01T18:28:31.704-05:00The luck of the draw turned out to be my salvation...<em>The luck of the draw turned out to be my salvation. On my umpteenth try, my character found both a ring and an ID scroll on Level 1. The ring turned out to be a Ring of Slow Digestion, which greatly decreased the need for constant food. With this need out of the way, I could linger on levels, slay more easy monsters, and increase my level (and hit points) faster. I could also afford to take the time to search for traps and secret doors where before my life had been a constant race to find the next bit of food.</em><br /><br />While this isn't as gripping as a Dwarf Fortress story, I consider it a generative story of sorts. (Not quite as good as your Wizardry I story where the stupid, stupid thief accidentally teleports you into the boss room, but a story nonetheless.)<br /><br />re: if the game is impossible, I'm not so certain. I remember thinking Wizard's Castle was impossible when I first played it, but a couple years ago I gave it another whirl and devised a strategy that allows a win most of the time. Roguelikes can be like that.Jason Dyernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-18566595601005807192011-01-01T17:24:03.955-05:002011-01-01T17:24:03.955-05:00I appreciate the corrections on "NetHack.&quo...I appreciate the corrections on "NetHack." I shouldn't have assumed that just because it was a "roguelike" that it didn't improve upon the gameplay experience of "Rogue." <br /><br />Jason, I'm not sure what you mean about my "implied story" on "Rogue"; I just told the back story as it exists in the game manual. But either way, I guess the problem with "Mission: Mainframe" is that it doesn't try to play it straight. It has you spending literally years in an office building, living on junk food, killing hapless corporate workers with office supplies.<br /><br />As to your question, Andrew, Ryan (Pipecleaner) hooked me up with a 1987 version of NetHack so I'd be playing the authentic thing. I'll probably dip into later versions as they would have appeared--they are, after all, in effect separate games.<br /><br />Thanks to Ryan and Jordan for recommending John Harris's column. I keep meaning to get together a "special topics" posting on other CRPG blogs.CRPG Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01238237377918550322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-1542028512173425662011-01-01T15:34:18.105-05:002011-01-01T15:34:18.105-05:00Jordan7hm said it better. And shorter. Heh.Jordan7hm said it better. And shorter. Heh.Ryan Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18063361293476758622noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-44593351649835091272011-01-01T15:33:06.745-05:002011-01-01T15:33:06.745-05:00#5, unless it really grabs you.
It is true that t...#5, unless it really grabs you.<br /><br />It is true that the roguelikes you have encountered thus far provide no NPCs, no subquests, et cetera. However, this is not at all true of the genre as a whole- I think you'll be surprised how much there is to the descendants of Rogue.<br /><br />However, it's also true that the very best roguelikes were the versions that came much later- to play Nethack 3.2 is to play a 2003 game, not a 1987 game. I'd suggest trying out the earliest released version, for at least the six hours, then when you hit the year of the latest version, try that too. If it does not hook you, move on. If it does, and you want to complete it, I think simultaneously playing another game, or doing special topics as you go, would both be excellent ideas- perhaps some mixture of both to keep yourself from getting bored.<br /><br />I'd hate to see the whole genre discounted as unworthy of specific attention, because there is a lot going on in that genre to interest an addict of RPGs. However, the permadeath issue makes it a fundamentally different kind of proposition to complete one- most CRPGs a gamer can expect to complete eventually, but most roguelikes, to complete it is a badge of achievement. To move on from a roguelike game without finishing it is not the same as moving on from a CRPGs that allows saved games- so while I'd encourage you to play roguelikes alongside the other CRPGs, attempting to complete them all would be an entirely different sort of challenge than the one you've set for yourself.<br /><br />So I'd say, play them as long as you're having fun, or have anything interesting to say about them. <br /><br />If this is of interest to you, there is a very well done column about roguelike games, called "@ Play". http://www.gamesetwatch.com/column_at_play/<br /><br />It's well written and genuinely interesting to read- I'd recommend anybody who is at all interested in roguelike games read through it from the beginning.Ryan Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18063361293476758622noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-45014090686432161052011-01-01T14:31:18.510-05:002011-01-01T14:31:18.510-05:00#5.
I love roguelikes but they're a whole oth...#5.<br /><br />I love roguelikes but they're a whole other ballgame. I'd suggest just quickly covering the basics and then moving on. If people want to read more about them I suggest John Harris' excellent @Play column.Jordan7hmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-63961766461150969412011-01-01T14:07:43.560-05:002011-01-01T14:07:43.560-05:00I vote #5.
Question - if Nethack has been conti...I vote #5. <br /><br />Question - if Nethack has been continually updated, is it really appropriate to have it next? I mean, the latest version (3.4.3) was released in 2003...I'm skeptical the experience would be the same as its early release. Could it even be considered the same game? Something to think about as the time nears.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12657402648693309702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-71250551492036532412011-01-01T10:57:38.326-05:002011-01-01T10:57:38.326-05:00I think any plan needs to be fairly nuanced. I wou...I think any plan needs to be fairly nuanced. I would love to see a "tactics" post on this game (I found the second post on Rogue much more interesting than the first, since I already knew what Rogue was but had no idea how to beat it) but I'm fairly sure there's not enough depth for a whole slew of posts.<br /><br />Don't presume "no plot" means it isn't possible to dig deep, and there's no "implied" story. (I found your implied story on Rogue quite interesting.) Nethack in particular has had volumes written about it, and I'm sure an outsider could find lots more to say.<br /><br />As far as if you should keep playing a particular game, just keep doing what you're doing: keep going if you enjoy it, drop it if you don't. If that means you have a long-term "background" game to noodle with once in a while that's fine.Jason Dyernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-6946570797685116832011-01-01T08:03:08.866-05:002011-01-01T08:03:08.866-05:00I vote #5.
Rogue-likes are called rogue-likes b...I vote #5. <br /><br />Rogue-likes are called rogue-likes because they're so similar, so there's no need to tell us a lot about each of them, just anything interesting that comes up...Justin Hallidayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05856712873509270368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-59620730847586684962011-01-01T04:38:00.474-05:002011-01-01T04:38:00.474-05:00Unless you find a lot of enjoyment in playing a ro...Unless you find a lot of enjoyment in playing a roguelike, I suggest you just drop it and move on. <br /><br />Nethack, and games of that pedigree (A.D.O.M, some Angband variants, etc) are very different from Mission: Mainframe in that they are the result of decades of ongoing coding. This means they're full of tricks and hidden gameplay you're meant to discover by playing the game over and over again.<br /><br />You're wrong to think that these games do not offer new experiences as you go along. M:M probably doesn't given its 1983 release, but Nethack's going to throw sokoban levels, themed quest levels, miniquests, underground forests, undead cemetaries, the astral plane... a huge amount of different stuff on you. Of course it's going to be abstracted and symbolized, but there's a lot of space there for your roleplaying to give it life.<br /><br />You won't survive the journey, of course. You will die again and again in this game and maybe 2-3 years from now if you love playing it, you'll finish it on your own. Or in significantly less time if you play with internet spoiler guides, but where's the fun in that?<br /><br />It comes down to whether roguelikes go well with your personality. After some time with Nethack, you'll know so you will know for certain what to do with more similar games on your list in the future. I say this because Nethack is arguably the deepest roguelike there is (I trust you'll play the most recent version).<br /><br />Also if you just want to see the game through, I'm sure it offers a 'Wizard Mode' where you do not die and you can keep on exploring lower and lower.<br /><br /><br />Also, happy new year! :DHelmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00584102280299430293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6162314467762792782.post-2883715561924371112011-01-01T01:48:10.986-05:002011-01-01T01:48:10.986-05:00#4 sounds good, as long as you get some enjoyment ...#4 sounds good, as long as you get some enjoyment or at least distraction out of playing the roguelike. otherwise i think one or two postings for nethack and similar games should be plenty.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com