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| "Star Trail" is a throwing axe!? "Banallure" strikes again. |
Of the various experiences common to multiple RPGs, one that I almost never fail to enjoy is arriving at a new city and making the rounds. A new city generally offers some combination of new clues, new equipment, new quests, and the resolution (or at least the next stage) of existing quests. It's a time to rest, heal, and restock. I particularly like games in which resting in a proper bed and/or eating a hot, full meal makes a big difference (e.g., Betrayal at Krondor, Star Trail, Pillars of Eternity). It engages the role-playing imagination more than just camping anywhere and getting all your hit points back. Skyrim is a game that could have done more with all its taverns and beds.
My party arrives in Gashok at night, wounded and exhausted from the road, so we immediately seek a place to stay. We find a bar first, called Second Home. "It doesn't seem to be one of the more high-class establishments in town," the game warns. It's all the more surprising, then, when the bartender tells us that they don't serve alcohol. We order a pot of tea and meals, but there are spiders in the food, so our trip isn't off to a good start.
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| It's protein-enhanced. |
The bartender, Menchegal the Older, has nothing to offer about any subject, including whoever fired a crossbow bolt at us when we arrived. At a table, Eilif Windorn suggests that it was an "accident." We leave the bar having not accomplished much.
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| "We intended to kill you." |
We keep exploring and find an inn called All Roads run by Elliane Sevenstones. She offers nothing in response to the keywords we ask. We try again with a meal and get a much better one, then splurge on a suite for a day. Commenters were right: the amount of time you choose to sleep is separate from the length of the stay that you pay for. We rest for 8 hours and heal nicely. The next morning, we set about our typical circuit of the town.
- From the comments on my last entry, I guess the house frames are not houses under construction but empty market stalls. They're empty here, too, but there's a pile of white ash nearby. When I ask anyone about it, they cancel conversation immediately.
- A woman named Gerlanje runs a potion and herb shop in a tent. We don't buy anything just yet.
- As we walk down the street, some sort of weird procession of moaning people walks by.
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| This town has problems. |
- A woman named Praiadne Oldenstein runs an equipment shop. As commenters suggested, I buy a sleeping bag for everyone.
- An NPC named Dietgel Fridgard offers that "the bright things of life" are "often not too far away."
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| Eric Idle, I hope you have a pencil. |
- Another equipment shop run by Raoul Zumendick. Like everyone else, he clams up immediately when I ask about the ashes.
- Moria the Wise (NPC in a house) suggests I stay off the streets at night. "You'll meet some doubtful guys."
- Urja Naloth (NPC in a house): "If Elvish blood runs through your veins, get out of here. Otherwise, you'll suffer the same fate as our miller, in the south of town." Aha! That crossbow bolt was fired at Toliman. This is a sundown town for elves. This was around the same time that I remembered Toliman is supposed to be my leader in towns.
- Heroja Inhar (NPC in house): Gashok used to be quiet, but there have been strange incidents since strangers arrived.
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| Exploring the city. |
- Another potion and herb shop, run by Ginya Ingborn.
- An old woman approaches us on the street and offers an amulet "which will protect you from evil magic" for 10 ducats. We decline.
- In the southwest corner of town, we find the charred remains of a mill. We spend some time searching the building but find nothing. Lyra figures the fire didn't start inside.
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| I feel like the game is trying to influence my choice. |
- Erhild Hesindel (NPC in house): "There are a lot of odd people here at Gashok. Not for long. There's a lot rumored. Watch your step." Well, that's ominous.
- Tronde Ismanson (NPC in house): The herb woman in the market (Gerlanje) is a witch.
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| I mean, yeah, it's a fantasy setting. There are lots of witches. |
- A Temple of Praios. We ask about elves: "A godforsaken lot; one day, they will disappear from the face of Threa." That doesn't sound very clerical.
- Rogullf the Obese runs an inn called Safe Harbor. He tells us that the mill was owned by someone named Artherion, and he suggests we ask Gerlanje. We rent another room (it's dark already). Around midnight, we're awakened by voices. "Something is going on in the market square." We come across a meeting of figures in tan robes and armbands showing the symbol of the sun. They start a bonfire, which roars for a while before scattering white ash everywhere. That explains the ash that we found earlier.
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| I don't know what the symbol on their robes is, but it doesn't look like the sun. |
- We go back to bed and are treated to a cinematic of a man in a black robe creeping into our chambers. We awaken. "I wish to propose a business arrangement," he says. He tells us that the "famous throwing axe," Star Trail, was stolen from the temple of the God of Thieves and is being held in an Orcish fortress. He offers us our choice of temple treasure if we return it.
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| I could have sworn I paid for individual rooms. |
- We get more elf racism at the smithy, where Rowena Pauspiarken "won't work for prickears." We temporarily split Toliman off into a new party so that she'll talk to us, but she kicks us out when we ask about the "shrouded figures."
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| This town has a lot of taboo subjects. |
- A tavern called Night and Day.
- An old woman stumbles into Toliman's arms, then pretends that her blindness has been cured. I suspect she pickpocketed us, but the game doesn't explicitly say so.
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| On the other hand, Toliman does have some healing skills. |
- Back at Gerlanje's tent, she confirms that Artherion owned the mill and that it burned down. "He left town to the east and now lives in a small wood near town."
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| People in this game could stand to get better at directions. |
For the second city in a row, I haven't found a place selling weapons or armor. Commenters suggested that the market buildings occasionally host traveling merchants, so I decide to stick around the area until one appears there. I think maybe I'll look around for Artherion. Unfortunately, the nature of the outdoor map doesn't really let you "stick around in the area." Once you leave town, you can't even change your mind and re-enter; you have to march off in some direction, and even turning around the next point means multiple days on the road.
There's also no going east from Gashok. The best I can do is north, then east, or south, then east. I save the game and try the former. Each night, I have Mahasim hunt for food and water (to avoid spending my rations) and have Lyra hunt for herbs. I don't have any recipes, nor an alchemy set, but herbs are useful on their own. Many are poisons, which can be rubbed on weapons. Some heal; some increase skills. More on this subject later. I also have Lilii perform a "wand ritual" to get her wand to Level 2, which causes it to act as a permanent torch (but saps all her magic points for the time being). A couple of lions attack one night.
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| I skipped right over Number 1. |
We eventually find a trail heading east. We're attacked by goblins on the second day, which again saps our hit points and spell points. We barely make any progress day to day as we travel east and then south until we're practically back at Gashok again. Almost everyone takes some damage tumbling down a hill as we try to negotiate a landslide, and everyone loses 2 charisma for a day after we're attacked by some dragonflies. A couple of forest gnomes attack outside Gashok.
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| That was deliberate. |
Soon we're back at the city, having spent a couple of weeks on the road doing nothing more than making a giant loop. After we enter the city, I figure out the problem. Apparently, it makes a difference which signpost you choose when you want to leave the city. I had chosen the one on the north side, so my only option was to go north. Lesson learned. Probably re-learned, because I think it must have been the same way in Blade of Destiny.
We head out again on the eastern road, poke around for a bit, fight a battle against a couple of spiders, and eventually find Artherion's cabin. Artherion greets us with an arrow pointed at us. "We're friends!" we announce. He relates how he woke up one night with his mill on fire. When he tried to escape, cloaked figures shoved him back inside his burning property. He frightened them with magic and escaped. He says that Gerlanje is the only decent person in town.
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| Got some bad news for you, Artherion. |
"The whole trouble started when two men came to Gashok. One of them seems to be the leader." He asks us to kill that man, "so all folks will again be able to live together in peace."
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| Atherion has a harrowing story. |
We return to town and ask Gerlanje about the strangers. She says that two of them moved to town in the same spring. One of them, Valpor of Kuslik, lives two houses away from Night and Day tavern.
As we prepare to head for that location, we see that the market buildings have been converted from wooden frames to tents. Hallelujah. But no sooner have we entered the arms shop than the 19:00 hour rolls around and the market closes.
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| Goddamn it. |
Several places could plausibly be "two houses" from Night and Day. We knock on a few and meet Valpor. He claims he's not a murderer, but he tells us of two other strangers:: Erholt of Tiefhusen (northeast of market square) and Deregorn of Thunderbrook (next to the temple of Praios).
We make it to Deregorn's house first and fight a six-on-one battle against a "warrior." He dies quickly. Afterwards, we have the opportunity to search his house. We find documents linking Deregorn to an "order" that has eight members in Gashok. I assume this order is the same group of shrouded figures we found in the market at night. Maybe they're performing some kind of ritual that makes everyone else in town hostile?
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| If it doesn't give names or addresses, in what way is it a "list"? |
An old man answers our knock at a house northeast of market square. We have several options to accuse him or attack him, but we leave it for now. When we can't find anyone else in the area, we return, and the man thanks us for "sending Deregorn of Thunderbrook to Boron's realm." So I'm not sure whether we found Erholt of Tiefhusen or not, or even whether we needed to.
I take a save and the party heads back out on the road to return to Artherion. We defeat some goblins on the way, but Lyra is killed, so I have to reload. We reach Artherion, and I guess we did the right thing, as he thanks us and invites us into his place. Unlike most NPCs I've encountered so far, he has a lot to say, although I don't understand some of it. He thinks the Salamander Stone belongs to Ingerimm, which I thought was originally a corruption of "Ingramosch," the dwarf I'm supposed to take it to, but turns out to be the god of smiths in this universe. He doesn't know where the Dwarven Pit (where we're supposed to search for the stone) is, but he says the dwarves have a bunch of mines around Finsterkamm.
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| You don't need to tell me, buddy. I'm from Maine. |
He ends the visit by giving us a Sword of Artherion and a Bow of Artherion, both of which I'm going to assume are better than our starting gear. I give the sword to Xamidimura the warrior and the bow to Toliman the elf.
I return to Gashok, this time determined to stay until the weapon-seller is in the market, even if I have to rest multiple days away. On our first night in the inn, an angry mob breaks in and hauls us out to the street (this is told in a cinematic), accusing us of murder. When we're able to produce evidence that Deregorn was the "leader of the Anathematizers," they let us go, but with a warning not to show our faces in Gashok again.
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| Okay, you're going on my list. |
Despite the warning, we don't seem to have any problem resuming our stay at the inn. We note the passing of the days: Windsday, Earthday, Marketday (oddly, the market isn't open), Praiosday. Finally, the market is back. Unfortunately, the weapon/armor shop has no metal armor, but I get leather harnesses for Gnomon and Toliman (who had no armor), replace everyone's shoes with leather boots, replace Gnomon's mace with an axe (his preferred weapon), and get shields for my two warriors.
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| My party leader at the end of this session. |
After that, I guess it's time to move on. I'm not sure we really solved the city's problems, but I can't figure anything else to do. I have two major quests now: find the Salamander Stone in the Dwarven Pit, and find Star Trail (I still haven't come to terms with that yet) from an orc fortress. I have no real leads on either location except a vague hint that there are dwarves around Finsterkamm. I check the game map, and Finsterkamm turns out to be an enormous mountain range stretching across half the map, from the southwest to the northeast. Not only is it going to be a huge pain to search, but it's also pretty far away from Kvirasim, where I was told that the Dwarven Pits were "not too far" to the south.
Miscellaneous notes:
- When I created the characters, I could have sworn I made Mahasim as a Thorwallian, but he's a warrior instead. I guess it probably doesn't matter.
- When characters change their footwear, the game marks the occasion with a little animation. It doesn't do this for any other change of equipment. That's . . . weird.
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| Those are some nice calves. |
- As commenters in my last entry pointed out, if you take off a character's pants, it has some consequences. It doesn't seem to affect interactions in shops or with scripted NPCs, but there's an escalating series of random encounters. First, someone simply points it out and calls you a "sicko." Then, some creep molests the party member in question. Finally, the townspeople start attacking the party (including those that are fully dressed), doing roughly 1-10 hit points of damage each time. That third encounter keeps repeating until you get dressed.
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| Wow, they hate nudists even worse than elves. |
- Am I crazy, or is there no way, when buying items, to specify which character is receiving the items? They just seem to always go to the character who has the first available room.
- I'm a bit confused about whether it's important for certain characters to carry certain items. For instance, is it enough that the party possesses six sleeping bags, or does each character need to have the sleeping bag in his inventory? If I send Gnomon out to look for food, does he need the fishing hook in his inventory if he hopes to employ it?
- I
do wish the authors had enlisted the help of better translators. The
misplaced open quotation bothers me a lot more than one would think, as
do the over-use of ellipses and misplaced commas. There are many times,
particularly in what is supposed to be PC dialogue options, where the
writing is bizarre or amateur. The developers did a decent job creating a
realistic world in which the player must carefully watch conditions and
manage resources; it's jarring to be taken out of it with juvenile or
slangy responses.
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| I don't want to say any of those things. |
I head out to start doing some open exploration, but in my first battle, I realize that Toliman is out of arrows, so I need to reload back in Gashok and get some more. I guess I'll wrap up here. I have two primary questions at this stage, and I almost hesitate to write them down, as I want to find the answers for myself, but I suppose I can just not read comments for a few days. The two questions are:
- Does the game reward open exploration? Will I find interesting encounters and side quests if I just wander the roads?
- Should I already know where to go next from in-game resources?
Hopefully, by the next entry, I'll have my own answers.
Time so far: 10 hours
"Sword of Artherion and a Bow of Artherion, both of which I'm going to assume are better than our starting gear."
ReplyDeleteThey are magical. "+1" Items are quite rare in RoA and very useful.
"When characters change their footwear, the game marks the occasion with a little animation. It doesn't do this for any other change of equipment. That's . . . weird."
There is more animations. For putting on leg armor, arm armor, helmets, necklaces, belts. All them varied according to the character's sex. No animations for putting on pants or chest armor, as this is not a hentai JRPG.
"I'm a bit confused about whether it's important for certain characters to carry certain items. For instance, is it enough that the party possesses six sleeping bags, or does each character need to have the sleeping bag in his inventory?"
Items like sleeping bags or blankets are have to be in the character's inventory to be useful. Rations and waters skins too, unless you want to micromanage the hunger and thirst.
"Does the game reward open exploration? Will I find interesting encounters and side quests if I just wander the roads?"
Interesting and unique encounters - a big YES. Quests - no.
"Should I already know where to go next from in-game resources?"
For the main quest - yes.
Markets will have a different assortment, if you willing to pay for another week in the inn. You can camp in the town, I think, but you have to watch your food and water, as you can't hunt.
"... Rations and waters skins too, unless you want to micromanage the hunger and thirst..."
DeleteActually characters will use rations and water from another characters inventory when they have run out of their own. The game will inform you about this, too.
"..Interesting and unique encounters - a big YES. Quests - no..."
Yes, that's a big flaw of the game. Even all the dungeons are main quest related.
Regarding optional(ity of) dungeons and plots: (ROT13)
DeleteVa Fgne Genvy, nyy ohg gjb bs gur qhatrbaf ner bcgvbany, gubhtu fbzr znl orpbzr arprffnel nf gur fgbel cebterffrf. Fvzvyneyl, gur Ngurevba fgbelyvar va Tnfubx jnf bcgvbany.
That magic amulet you didn’t buy might have actually increased your magic resistance. I don’t remember if it’s a specific encounter or a random chance, but some of these items are not a scam. There is some spell (no clue about the translated name) that tells you the magic properties of an item.
ReplyDelete> There is some spell (no clue about the translated name) that tells you the magic properties of an item.
DeleteAnalyze.
There is also Odem Arcanum, that tells if an item is magic or not, but doesn't reveal any properties of it. (But it's easier to cast than Analyze).
DeleteIt is indeed random whether you receive a worthless amulet or one that significantly increases magic resistance when worn. I don't know the probabilities.
The spell is simply called "Analyze Magic". There is also "Odem Arcanum", which, for less mana, reveals magical items but not their specific properties.
DeleteAh, in German it’s Analys Arkanstruktur which literally translates to "Analys arcane structure"
DeleteThe temple of Boron. What's next, the shrine of Carbon and the church of Nitrogen?
ReplyDelete> Should I already know where to go next from in-game resources?
DeleteYes, and IIRC you didn‘t miss anything important.
Says the man who slays kobolds for a living. What's next, wolframs?
DeleteThe temple of Boron is a shrine to the Fifth Element.
DeleteThe Grandia JRPG series has regular 'meal scenes' where when you stay at an inn after reaching a new town or after a plot development, instead of just getting full HP, it leads to a full dialogue scene of the characters seated around the table sharing their thoughts on what just happened and you can (/have to) select each character to ask them their thoughts and progress the scene until they decide it is time for bed.
ReplyDeleteIf you still have issues with healing, i can offer tips.
ReplyDeleterot13 just in case you don't want them, but no spoilers here:
Nfvqr bs urnyvat cbgvbaf, fbzr ureof urny jura rngra enj - va cnegvphyne, ybaroreevrf ner rkgerzryl pbfg-rssrpgvir; Gurl urny 1q6 uc, ohg bayl pbfg 8 fvyire rnpu.
(Pbzcner jvgu urny cbgvbaf, 10 uc sbe 6 tbyq).
Gurl ner nyfb zhpu zber jrvtug naq fcnpr rssvpvrag - lbh pna fgnpx hc gb 99 bs gurz va n fvatyr fybg.
The symbol on the robes looks like a griffin (the sacred "animal" of Praios).
ReplyDeleteIt's an oddity—if not a bug—that the elve racism rant comes from Gerlanje too.
Regarding the controls:
It should be possible to interrupt your journey on the roads at any time—unfortunately, I don't remember the exact functions. It's also possible to use items while traveling—for example, to light a torch or rope up if the location/terrain makes it advisable.
It is possible to resurrect fallen characters in the temple. Large donations to the deity or other acts of service to them may be helpful in this regard.
In the PnP, the mentality and values of society in and around Gashok are based on those of real-world puritans. This is very poorly implemented in Star Trail, as is the entire Western (movie) atmosphere in the Svelt Valley.
Ingerimm (also called Angrosch by dwarves) is indeed the god of smithing, fire, and ore.
Ingramosch is a theophore name.
In the PnP series, Sternenschweif is a (well-known) artifact of the Phex cult. Priests of Phex can summon this axe for a short time. Afterwards, it returns to its previous location.
The translation is indeed done very sloppy, unfortunately, the same as in Blade of Destiny.
There are indeed some interesting encounters to be found on the streets, including dangerous ones, and also the occasional NPC companion.
I think interrupting your travel (and reversing course if you want to) is as simple as pressing the right mouse button, or maybe escape. I did it a few times and it was natural enough so that I don't remember precisely what I did.
DeleteThe deciption of the Anathematizers/Bannstrahler in the game is a bit strange, as the game makes it sound like a criminal organisation, when it's in fact a recognized order of the church of Praios. They are even possible as a player class in PnP.
DeleteThanks, Buck!
DeleteIt was that simple way. (And I forgot to mention the most important: turning around.)
"I mean, yeah, it's a fantasy setting. There are lots of witches." -- Actually, no, there aren't. Arkania/Aventuria is a relatively low-fantasy setting (non-human races notwithstanding), where magic users (and magic items) are meant to be exceedingly rare.
ReplyDeleteNot to contradict you, VK, but one of my first DSA modules was 'Hexennacht' (Witches Night) which introduced the witch class as a playable option. Another module, 'Fluch des Mantikor' (Curse of the Manticore) similarly introduced the 'Schelm' (rogue/jester) class to the players as something new. It wasn't uncommon during DSA's 2nd edition that rule enhancements were introduced via modules instead of sourcebooks.
DeleteI mean, you have the mage as a playable class as well; it doesn't mean they're common.
DeleteOk, so I did some searching. Different sourcebooks give the prevalence of magical talent in humans between 1 in 100 and 1 in 150 (https://de.wiki-aventurica.de/wiki/Zauberer) - so 0.5-1% of the population. So rare, but perhaps not as rare as I was lead to believe before. Although it's the average value and since magic in Aventuria tends to run in the families, it should be 2-4 times less concentrated among the general population.
Gashok's population is supposed to be between 600-900, so there should be between 2-9 magic users (but probably closer to the lower end). Couldn't find what percentage of magic users witches make - although a middle of nowhere like that would be more likely to have one than an educated mage.
Yeah, 1% is not so much "rare" as it is "every settlement and adventuring party will have one". This happens in a lot TRPGs though.
DeleteI took a look. According to the magic rule box set from 1994 ("Götter Magier und Geweihte" = "Gods, magicians and priests /consecrated ones"), there are 3,500 witches in Aventuria, and additionally 500 Tulamidian witches. Besides, there are about 5,000 magicians, 3,000 shamans and 1,000 druids running around.
Delete0.5-1% is still fairly rare (though not exceedingly so) - a comparable statistic is the incidence of trans people in real life. They also wouldn't be evenly distributed. So it's entirely possible for someone living their whole life in a small town like Gashok to never meet one.
DeleteThey can (re-)distribute themselves, though. It makes sense for an unemployed wizard or witch to find an "unoccupied" village to move to, similar to how most villages IRL attract at least one teacher and doctor and innkeeper and so forth.
DeleteThey don't though? The lack of teachers and doctors in rural areas is a huge problem since extremely few people take up those positions willingly.
DeleteNowadays, you are correct. In a medieval or renaissance world, these were highly respected professions so it makes much more sense for them to move to a village in need of one.
DeleteI think you have a very idealised view of medieval villages. Most of them would have neither a need for a teacher, nor the means to pay them.
DeleteI'm a little surprised by the balance; I'd have expected witches to be the most common form of magic-user since it's a folk tradition; magicians and priests require an establishment to train them. As the poster formerly known as VK points out, your typical village would lack a teacher or a doctor and even a priest might only be there part-time, but most medieval villages would have "That one wise old woman you don't want to upset"
DeleteWell, Gashok does have Gerlanje. She's just not a real witch (probably).
DeleteIf I understand correctly, the difference between casters in Aventuria is only the method they use to do magic, not the nature or source of their gift (unlike DnD). Plus magical gift is semi-hereditary (being born to magic users increases your chances to have it 2-4 times, but does not guarantee it). So it's reasonable to assume that most gifted kids end up with official mage institutions.
Oh, and there were witch hunts.
And an "idealised view of medieval villages" sounds exactly like the Fantasy genre, really.
DeleteThere is no consensus on what a "medieval village" would look like, since the concept of "medieval village" tends to cover a long chunk of history over a pretty sizeable continent. And during that period of history, there were better times and worse times.
DeleteThere definitely were times and places where the concept of "medieval village" would seem to indicate that teachers were somewhere in the picture. I.e. Novgorod preserved due to soil conditions an awful lot of discarded scraps that indicated that penetration of writing and arithmetic was quite deep.
I would carry on to say that there was a pretty clear period in the 60es of de-romantisation of medieval myths that quite often went overboard.
Regarding your original response, VK, I was just trying to point out that witches do have a prominent place in Aventurian lore when the official publisher makes an effort to introduce them and their craft in a standalone module. But as I can see you're well versed in the DSA system, and I'm still occasionally perusing the wiki myself to clear up some minutiae. (The Google Maps version of Aventuria being a particular highlight.)
Delete@RandomGamer, medieval Novgorod was nowhere near a village though, it was a city-state of 20-30k people. It was also a fairly exceptional city, culturally and politically.
Delete@xVK, regarding Novgorod correspondence:
Delete1. A lot of what was found did not originate in Novgorod proper. These could be business correspondence, IOU's, legal complaints, etc.
2. Novgorod is the source of most of material largely because people know where to look, but the same scraps have been found in multiple sites.
3. The documents illustrate why it is so *useful* for a "medieval peasant" to be literate: You can write a note! You can ask for prices! you can lend money! You can borrow money! You can write a label to indicate that something is yours! You can write a love letter! You can write a will! You can teach your kids! They shatter the "dark medieval" assumption about society where the only place you need writing is religious texts, and we have priests for that - in fact, very little of what was found has any relations to religion.
I remember a 1960es "dark medieval" novel where the author wrote illiterate and innumerate peasants argue over beer at a tavern about grain prices - without spending a minute to think about how exactly that would work.
At least when it comes to medieval Russia, we can safely assume that the literacy levels of the Novgorod Republic were an exception to the rule - judging simply by how widespread illiteracy in rural areas still remained in the early 20th century.
DeleteThere is a fantastic little book called Montaillou by Emmanuel Le Roy Ladurie that deep-dive in the eponymous village thanks to a 1 year-long investigation done by the inquisition.
DeleteIt is a good read, but I had forgotten the hard data - but then I found a fantastic review that hits all the key points:
https://cwagen.substack.com/p/book-review-montaillou
4 people knew how to read out of 250 inhabitants - though note it is an isolated village (there is a reason the inquisition went there - they were tracking down the last Cathars)
@xVK, what you propose is like judging the state of Prussia by looking at modern Konigsberg.
DeleteIf you have an explanation of how and why the levels of rural literacy would have gone down between 14th and 19th centuries, I'm all ears.
DeleteIt complicates things somewhat that we tend to think of literacy as binary when it's really a spectrum. "Doesn't comprehend that there's a connection between words and those patterns of lines on things" illiteracy was probably in most places pretty rare, but "Can recognize common words, maybe write simple lists, but not read well enough comprehend prose, at least without great difficulty" might have been a good deal more common
DeleteTwo random comments:
ReplyDelete* The exploration of the town seems to be a bit more present in the JRPG side of things than in the CRPG [at that time], mostly because JRPGs are traditionally way more rigid in their format - they rely a lot on expectations from the player - and CRPGs are a way wilder genre with so many variations. A friend of mine started writing a book 15 years ago about video game inns and bars, but it was one of the dozen books he started (he has now released like 12 and he has like 300 in different states of writing) and I remember his fascination with JRPGs in this respect.
* I was imagining a reissue of Star Trail or any of the games of this trilogy with a retranslation. How many voices would say "no! do not change anything! the original translation may be confusing but it is part of the charm of the game and part of my childhood!" as it happened with a few jrpgs? Maybe none.
* You can really notice when you are covering a game that many of your readers have as something close to them. It's a minefield.
I'm reasonably certain that the 2017 RoA remakes did, in fact, re-translate the in-game text.
DeleteI always play old jrpgs with available fan retranslations if they're any good. God bless the invention of flash card adaptors.
DeleteOh VK I completely forgot about the remakes. Was talking about reissues, not remakes though. Were not the remakes panned as if they did a kitten massacre or something?
DeleteThey absolutely were - but not because of the translation but because they were buggy, unwieldy and ugly. From what I've read, they fixed most of that post-release and even introduced some improvements over the original games (more classes etc.). Never played them myself tho.
DeleteI was inspired by Chet playing Star Trail to finally play the remake (die to the bugs I did not play directly after release). And I enjoyed it very much. The game is much better looking than the Blade of Destiny remake and much more transparent than the original. I can only recommend to try it out!
DeleteFor the record: the encounter about Star Trail is scripted and mandatory, and seems to happen wherever you sleep in the inn for the first time (in my case, it was in a starting city). The quest you just solved in Gashok is completely optional.
ReplyDeleteThat's obviously Darth Sidious in that first screenshot.
ReplyDeleteFor the mage wand, your image note is "I skipped right over Number 1." All mage wands start at level 1 (Indestructible). I assume that's done as part of mage training.
ReplyDeleteI also have the big open question of "how many miscellaneous objects [sleeping bags, shovels, pickaxes, fishing hooks, hammers, quills, etc.] are useful/important to carry?" The implication is that it's ALL useful, but carrying even one of everything potential useful would nearly completely fill our inventory, leaving little room for sellable loot.
I'm hoping we don't have a time constraint in this one (not that the Blades constraint was onerous - I ended up still waiting a year after exploring every town and all but 2 dungeons). I'm deep into the "see and do everything, saving the main quest for last" mentality of CRPG gaming.
There will be two time constraints, not absolute but specific. ROT13 (because of minor spoilers):
Delete1. Vs n fcrpvsvp ZpThssva vf fgbyra, lbh unir n yvzvg bs 10 qnlf gb trg vg onpx.
2. N zrrgvat va gur gbja bs Gvrsuhfra zhfg or xrcg. Bgurejvfr, n fvqr dhrfg jvyy or oybpxrq.
Good to know, and those two seem specific (and clear) enough that I shouldn't be caught unawares. Thanks!
DeleteYou're welcome.
DeleteBut I forgot to mention, for the second point your party needs to have at least 51 ducats, otherwise it will end up in a dead end!
And about a patch for an annoying bug:
Vs gur cnegl vf pncgherq ol bepf sne gb gur fbhgujrfg naq eboorq bs gurve orybatvatf (guvf pna unccra, ohg pna or nibvqrq), gurer jnf zrag n jnl gb erpbire gur rdhvczrag.
Unfortunately, it doesn`t function. The "Sternenschweif Fan Patch" on this page is supposed to fix it:
http://nlt-wiki.crystals-dsa-foren.de/doku.php/downloads
I installed the Sternenschweif fan patch before I started. Not sure offhand what all it addressed, except it clearly fixed the baby faces issue for importing characters. I can't find a list of changes anywhere (nothing included in the roa2pat.zip file).
DeleteThe contents of the Star Trail fan patch are described (in German) in two entries of a forum thread about it here and here.
DeleteThat's excellent. Thanks, Busca!
DeleteThe 51 ducats are an important information. It's rather unfortunate because it's in a place where you might have loaded up with resources beforehand, so it's likely that you're low on money. It's best to always have some money left.
DeleteAlso, If you kill the wrong person in Gashok, you will get lynched the next time you sleep there in an inn, but I guess that can be avoided by not sleeping in an inn in Gashok.
"He ends the visit by giving us a Sword of Artherion and a Bow of Artherion, both of which I'm going to assume are better than our starting gear."
ReplyDeleteYou can drag your gear on the eye symbol. For the sword, this will tell you the exact stats: damage range, and modifiers to attack and parry values. For armor, you can also see the protection value, encumbrance, and attack and parry penalties. (I think in Blade of Destiny you still had to cast Analyze to get these stats). If you want to know if the item is magical, you still have to cast Odem Arcanum or Analyze.
If you miss often in combat, weapons and armor with a high penalty might be the reason.
Also: If you go to the settings menu (where you switched off the screen saver), you can set printing to "file". Now go to your character screen, select the print option, and you'll get what is a close approximation to a DSA3 character sheet in ASCII on your disk, which also includes some additional stats like damage range of a weapon. Now all you need to do is find a local RoA group still stuck on the DSA3 ruleset, and you're good to go for PnP ;)
When I played this and discovered Gashok back then in my youth, the racism felt off and clichee. Nowadays, i'm wiser.
ReplyDeleteChecking out the incidence of witches made me thing about how RoA series has some of the biggest towns and cities in RPGs outside of Daggerfall, yet they are supposed represent pretty small settlements. Thorwal and Lowangen, the biggest cities in RoA 1 and 2 respectively, are canonically only about 12k people (for comparison, the biggest city in PnP Aventuria is about 200k). The town of Riva, where the whole of RoA3 is set, only 4000 people.
ReplyDeleteThis makes me wonder now if that makes RoA cities the most "to scale"/least abstracted ones in RPGs. For instance, in-game Lowangen is comparable to in-game Daggerfall City in size (both are about 250 buildings), but in-lore Daggerfall City is ten times larger (110k people).
The biggest city in PnP Aventuria is...
Delete...probably the harbor town Havena? Or is it Gareth still, the capital of the Middle Realm? Could also be Al'Anfa, the slavers place in the south, although I assume all of them aren't too far apart from each other in terms of their population.
But you're right, even in more moderen crpg's alleged towns consisting of seven buildings are ubiquitous (looking at you, 'Skyrim').
By far Gareth even after all recent trouble in the game world; I think it still has more inhabitants than its next two or three competitors combined.
DeleteAs for the general point, city sizes in The Dark Eye's Aventuria are indeed much more in line with medieval logistics than, say, the Forgotten Realms (where a city like Waterdeep would have needed magically enhanced sewage and garbage disposal, for instance, but strangely, Elminster, Halaster and other "Wish"-capable guys rather build dungeons or whatever).
The metropolis of Gareth once had approximately 200,000 inhabitants. Currently, it likely has around 170,000.
DeleteAl'Anfa is still in second place with 105,000 inhabitants. Before the Great Plague (over 300 years before the game began), it had 150,000.
Festum had 40,000 inhabitants, then the official figure was 27,000, but due to poor data collection, it now has 35,000. Fasar's population "grew" from 23,000 to 45,000.
These were the four most populous cities.
Now Vinsalt ranks third after a retcon with 60,000 inhabitants.
On the continent of Myranor, there are many cities with several hundred thousand inhabitants.
Players have long, long debated and squabbled the realism or unrealism of the population figures in Aventuria.
Overlook about Population density:
Deletehttps://de.wiki-aventurica.de/de/images/d/de/Aventurien_Bevoelkerungsdichte_070929.jpg
The total human population of Aventuria has been repeatedly increased via retcon, from 1 million to over 5 million. Goblins follow humans, with a constant population of 200,000. There are less then 20.000 elves. Dunno about Dwarves, but about as same.
@BESTIEunlmt, worst thing is when building density doesn't match NPC density. The "city" of Cyseal in DivOS has, like, a hundred NPCs and all of 8 buildings.
Delete@Titus, I frankly can't believe that Havena, for which there has been a separate box set during 1st edition, should rank fifth or lower. Certainly an oversight on your part, or has it fallen into the sea?
Delete@BESTIEunlmt, I just checked:
Delete- In the old “Havena” box set (1st ed.), an in-game text from the year 7 Hal states: 18,252 inhabitants and the population almost doubled in the last two years!
- box set "Das Fürstentum Albernia" (2nd ed.) copies this passage, without the absurd remark about the doubling.
- Box Set “Das Land des Schwarzen Auges” (later 2nd ed.): 21.500 inhabitants
- "Unter dem Westwind" (4th ed.): approximately 30,000 inhabitants
- According to "Die Ära des Goldenen Kaisers" (which I don't own; my source here is the Wiki Aventurica), there were already 26,000 inhabitants in Hal's time. (Retcon!)
You're certainly right; the city's position and importance to the game of DSA and the game world suggests a large population.
But I see that we shouldn't take all of this too seriously.
I forgot to type in the name Titus. And here is the side in Wiki Aventurica: https://de.wiki-aventurica.de/wiki/Havena_(Siedlung)/Demografie (Of course no guarantee of correctness and completeness.)
DeleteTo clear up the point why there's a box for a city that's not even among the top 5, size-wise: This was the very first "regional" material published by the Dark Eye designers. They had no experience with this kind of stuff, so it makes sense that they tried their hands with a city that was important, but not all-important. Apart from that, it was also the setting for the introductory adventure that came with the 1st edition base set. Good reasons to go with it, I'd say.
DeleteTitus Sturmfels
DeleteThe Havena box set was followed by collections of three short adventures each in a series titled "Adventures in Havena." Havena was presented as a kind of home base for the characters and, as Ancient Architect wrote, as a first step in continuous "city adventures."
DeleteA Curiosity:
The Havena box set even included brief tips for converting to Dungeons & Dragons and Midgard!
"Firing a crossbow bolt"?
ReplyDeleteI am sorry, English is not my native language, but "firing an arrow" or similar does not make any sense to me. You fire a cannon or a firearm, or anything else where gunpowder is set on fire. I am fine with firing a laser, because science-fiction laser guns and laser cannons look like gunpowder guns and cannons.
But "firing an arrow" or a crossbow bolt? No. There is neither fire nor luminous energy involved. The sentence is anachronistic in any fantasy setting without widespread knowledge of gunpowder.
In the walkthroughs I write in English, I always write "shooting an arrow". There: no fire involved :-)
This is, obviously, overthinking, therefore I think this blog is the right place for it.
Yeah, the usage of the word "shoot" with arrows goes back to Old English ("sceotan"). Using "loose" (as in "he loosed an arrow") goes back to the 1500s, which is also when "fire" began to be used with firearms and cannon, with its literal meaning of applying fire to the gunpowder charge to ignite it.
DeleteSomebody please think about the fire arrows.
DeleteWords evolve. After centuries of gunpowder, "firing" refers to the loosing of a bullet, regardless of the nature of the impelling force.
DeleteI mean, that is contemporary English. But we need not necessarily assume that there has been no element of translation, or that the same word has not evolved in a different way in another world.
DeleteI can't speak to the truth of it, but back when I did archery regularly I was told that it was "shoot" rather than "fire" because the latter meant literally light your arrows on fire.
DeleteI think it's just another case of bad translation.
DeleteIn German, both expressions are common and mean the same: "einen Bolzen (ab)feuern" = "to fire a bolt" and "einen Bolzen schießen" = "to shot a bolt". A subtle difference lies in the fact that the former emphasizes the act of triggering or suggests greater force.
Dont think thats true, Titus. While You can of course say it, abfeuern has the same Problem as to fire in english has, to a Letter.
DeleteJust a try to explain. And maybe in the original it was "shoot"...
DeleteI am sorry and it annoys me if I spread a bit misinformation.
DeleteAlas, my most hated foe, Misuse of Thee/Thou/Thy/Thine! From hell's heart, I strike at thee!
ReplyDeleteIn seriousness, though, throwing in random thees and thys to make speech sound archaic is one of my biggest pet peeves, especially because it is almost never done correctly. "Thy ought to know" in the fifth screenshot should, at the very least, be "Thou shouldst know," and (more realistically speaking) should really probably use "ye," since the NPC is talking to a group of people, rather than just one. Alas, I could rail against this for an eternity. I can understand when a game translated from German has a hard time with this sort of thing, but native English speakers rarely get it right, either.
So German has three types of "you" - singular ("du"), plural ("ihr") and polite ("Sie").
DeleteBut!
This last polite "you" is for all intents and purposes identical to "they" (also "sie" just not capitalised) - has the same declension and takes the same verb forms.
But that's not all!
In nominative, accusative and genitive, this polite "you" aka "they" is also homonymous to "she" (also "sie") - although "she", of course, takes different verb forms (singular).
But while "you/they" in dative is "I/ihnen", "she" in dative is "ihr". Which - ta-dam! - is homonymous to the nominative of plural "you".
In other words: the ways to say "you" in German are "you", "her" and "she/they". So I would really cut them some slack about not getting "thy" right. Be thankful it's not "unc" or something.
@poster formerly known as VK I actually studied German for four years in high school/college, so I'm quite familiar with the pronoun complications. In a sentence, of course, verb conjugations and adjective endings would be eliminate most of the ambiguity to native speaker, but your point still stands.
Delete(on a related note, learning German grammar actually helped me to understand the distinctions between usage of thou, thee, thy, and thine in English!)
Not always. I had a funny conversation with my Hausmeister once, where I said that I don't know my neighbors ("Ich kenne sie nicht") and he understood as me saying that I don't know him ("Ich kenne Sie nich") and got mighty surprised.
DeleteThe way the shopkeeper throws you out at 19:00 on the dot feels very German.
ReplyDeleteI don't have any high-value comment, but it was a good read indeed! So far it looks like a game I would love.
ReplyDeletealways enjoy a "terrible food! and such small portions" joke
ReplyDeleteBTW Al Qadmin is part of the Amazon free games this week. As it will be covered in the future, some of you may be interested. I also love this game, with all its numerous flaws and shortcomings.
ReplyDeleteAl Qadmin, I don't know why I am laughing so much at this typo
DeleteIt's a great typo, sounds like a systems operator for a notorious terrorist group.
Delete