The first 1994 game is on the list! (Again—there was one there for a little while, but we found some new 1993 games to bump it off. I don't remember what it was, so I re-rolled a new one from the list.) After that, I'll go back to the usual practice of alternating a "current" game with one from the backlist.
As a reminder, this discussion is to offer:
- Opinions about the game's RPG status. While applying your own definitions to such a discussion is fine, what really helps is if you apply mine. The FAQ (7th question) covers my definition.
- Tips for emulating the game
- Known bugs and pitfalls
- Tips for character creation
- Trivia
- Predictions for my reaction and/or the GIMLET score (without specifics that will spoil the game).
- Sources of information about the game from around the web, particularly obscure ones that I might otherwise miss during my pre-game research.
These are the next six titles:
- Fates of Twinion (1993 | Sierra | DOS). I have to admit, I don't really look forward to this one. It's an expansion to Shadow of Yserbius (1992), an online, multiplayer game that really suffers in its offline format. I don't know what to expect from the sequel.
- Infinite Fantasy Adventures, Volume 1: The Fantasy Worlds of Tamrak (1993 | Independent | DOS). This shareware Ultima clone may have been created with the DC Games kit. It looks a lot like The Rescue of Lorri in Lorrintron (1991).
Stone Mist 2: Legend of the Overfiend (1993 | Bit Brother | DOS). Not looking forward to this one, either. I had a lot of trouble with the first game in the series. Busca exposed the game's mendacity. Onto the 1994 list it goes.
- Sword Dream (1993 | Independent | Macintosh). This is a creation kit that produced top-down games in its 1993 version and first-person games in its 1997 3D incarnation. They look reasonably good, but the extent to which I play it is going to come down to whether there are sample scenarios included with the kit.
- Realms of Arkania: Star Trail (1994 | attic | DOS). I had mixed feelings about the original, which disappointed some readers, but I'm looking forward to seeing what's new in the sequel. MobyGames suggests there are more side quests and role-playing options.
- Tower of Alos (1982 | A&F | BBC Micro). This game came up on a random roll. Cursory investigation suggests that it is yet another knock-off of The Valley (1982), although I seem to recall that some work by El Explorador de RPG traced its origin to an even earlier title. I thought maybe I'd use this occasion to untangle the entire mess.
I await your thoughts. Please remember to keep the discussion spoiler-free.
In that case, Happy New Year! (well, almost)
ReplyDeleteCan we just skip Fates of Twinion, if it was mostly designed to play as MMORPG? Or maybe brief it?
ReplyDeleteSword Dream also seems like something that should be briefed, unless you want to go down the rabbit hole of all the expansions.
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On a side note, can you perhaps made the saves of the games you abandoned available for download?
From what I remember, Fates of Twinion is exactly the same as Shadows of Yserbius, just with different maps and framing story. I agree that a BRIEF is all that's needed.
DeleteYour memories aren't correct, then. Twinion has some significant changes to character development. Even if it didn't, that would be like skipping all the Gold Box games after the first one because it's just the same engine with different maps, story and enemies/items.
DeleteI would second skipping or 6-houring Twinion; it's a snoozefest.
Delete@Buck: but as it turned out, none of the later Gold Box games topped Pool of Radiance's GIMLET score. From a certain point of view, skipping the later Gold Box games could have been a defensible choice. I'm no Addict, but the reviews I read here of many of those games do run together a bit in my memory.
DeleteThen again, skipping large numbers of impactful games is probably antithetical to a site whose stated goal is "going through all RPGs in chronological order."
I'd say skipping any game would be antithetical to a site whose stated goal is "going through all RPGs in chronological order." ;)
Delete@Buck, it gets murky with offline versions of essentially online games.
DeleteIt's entirely possible that I'm forgetting details or didn't make it far enough in Twinion to notice. I likely bounced off this one pretty quickly back in the day having tried it right after Yserbius.
DeleteIs it easy to summarize the changes to character development? I'm curious.
Sure, it's a bit spoilery, so
DeleteGjvavba punatrf fcryy naq fxvyy cebterffvba fvtavsvpnagyl. Va Lfreovhf, ol gur gvzr lbh ragre gur znva cneg bs gur tnzr, cerggl zhpu nyy pynffrf unq nyy fcryyf. Va Gjvavba, lbh bayl trg 4-5 fcryyf ol yriryvat, gur erfg ner sbhaq va gur qhatrba naq ner pynff qrcraqrag. R.t. fbzr pynffrf trg fbzr fcryyf rneyl ba gung bguref trg cerggl yngr. Abg nyy pynffrf trg nyy fcryyf - bayl gur Jvmneq trgf gur cbjreshy qrngu qnegf naq pbageby fcryyf, znxvat gur pynff n ovg zber hfrshy guna va Lfreovhf. Fxvyyf ner onfvpnyyl gur fnzr, gubhtu gur cbvag ng juvpu lbh tbg gurz nyy jnf zhpu yngre va Lfreovhf.
Naq n cbvag gung'f bayl eryrinag gb gur yvggyr nhgvfg va zr: ab yrsgbire nggevohgr cbvagf gung lbh pna'g fcraq.
Six hours, or some other appropriate cut-off point as with its predecessor would doubtlessly be a good choice with Twinion. I say that as someone who played it back in the day in single-player and couldn't get terribly far with the steep difficulty curve.
DeleteOr this could be the end of the blog as we know it and the beginning of and endless Twinion run, it could be a cool run to read about.
DeleteThanks for the details Buck. I likely stopped before noticing those details. That doesn't change my opinion that a BRIEF would be sufficient, but I admit that I was wrong about no changes to advancement between the two games.
DeleteJust a minor note on Realms of Arkania: You can shoot diagonally now which is a lot more user friendly. Also, it speeds up the fights a bit. I am really looking forward to this (German) classic.
ReplyDeleteThere is a certain choice in Star Trail between a tough battle and giving up the mcguffin that is not in fact a choice as the battle is meant to be unwinnable. But you can technically win it if you cheese enough - which will put you into a more or less walking dead state.
ReplyDeleteRealms of Arkania II! At last. That’s one of the titles I have never played but always wanted. Das Schwarze Auge (the German title for Realms of Arkania) was my gateway to Fantasy roleplaying and therefore has a special place in my heart - even if I haven’t touched it in >30 years.
ReplyDeleteLooking forward to what you‘ll say about it. German magazines of the time widely agreed it was a vast improvement on the well-received, but unpolished and sometimes clumsy first part. Should be low level roleplaying with a lot of wilderness.
That's basically what I was going to say, except that I played the game, and I think Chet will enjoy it, as it improves upon the original while still delivering a classical roleplaying experience.
DeleteOooh I'm excited. I loved Star Trail, even if my younger self never got really far story-wise, because it was so confusing. But I enjoyed wandering around the map, repairing my boots, searching for herbs to cure my cold, running out of food... I understand it can get annoying fast, but I was really impressed by the attention to detail.
DeleteIt also comes with an 80 pages manual (those were the days), and I have read it over and over, marvelling at all the mysterious classes, skills and spells, before jumping into a 2 hours character creation process. By the way it's very important you pick "advanced" mode or the game will auto-level your chars and pick skills for you.
I replayed and finally finished Wiz7 Dark Savant a few years ago as an adult. I may try Star Trail again along with you, even if, while I loved the setting, I have horrible memories of the interface. And I have no time at all. We'll see.
Anyway, good luck.
I feel like the only game worth playing on this list is Realms of Arkania: Star Trail. It looks interesting to me at least.
ReplyDeleteTreat Twinion like an old school dungeon crawler, forget the fact that it was also a MUD, and draw your own maps. There's no guarantee that you will, but I really enjoyed it that way. It doesn't seem to have a good reputation, even among fans, but I found it even better to play as a solo game than Yserbius. If you want to cut yourself some slack, use this item list to check which items have flags that give you resistances (because getting petrified/incapacitated is the most frustrating part of the early game): https://github.com/ZaneDubya/YserbiusData/blob/master/Twinion/Data/Items.csv
ReplyDeleteIt's also well documented, so there is no pressure to finish it.
Looking forward to your take on some of these and really looking forward to your take on some of the others on the list.
ReplyDeleteI thought you enjoyed Arkania reasonably well given that you were unfamiliar with the tabletop system. Combat in Arkania is slow, and it's worse if you're not familiar with what makes your characters hit better. Maybe reading up on some of the 3rd edition tabletop mechanics would help, though I don't know if there is a good english language source for that.
ReplyDeleteThe game expects you to read the manual to understand which attributes are important for which character - or (as most players at the time in Germany) you just know the tabletop rules it is based on by heart. Combat is hard enough - and tiring - if you don't save-scum the level ups! I think it was kind of expected that players do that. The good thing is that you get detailed info about the modifiers of your weapons (and armor) in game. There is some thinking to be done to decide between damage output, attack/parade chance, break chance, weight and used skill for your equipment. Some enemies are resistant to certain damage, some equipment can only be selected by certain classes...
Delete+1 for familiarizing with the manual. The sequel addresses a lot of your criticisms of the first game, but keeps it's quirkiness and over reliance on implementing the whole 'The Dark Eye' ruleset. It also keeps the interface focus entirely on mouse - except for walking and rudimentary keyboard shortcuts. Also remember: Fireball is not your friend in this games ;-)
DeleteIt didn't look like you hit any of the fatal crashes in Yserbius, but just a gentle reminder to be careful with Twinion and occasionally make a Total Backup (as I've had 8+ hours get obliterated twice by pure random bugs).
ReplyDeleteYou might have a legitimate reason to kick Stone Mist 2 off the list. While it apparently has a 1993 copyright on its title screen, according to the readme.doc file included here in the downloadable version on the Internet Archive, Version 1.0 is from January 1994.
ReplyDeleteThe description of the stream-only version on the IA also gives 1994 as publication year. And since you already have a complete 1994 list based on your new approach, I think you could forego it entirely, if you so wish, while still adhering to your rules.
Yay! An occasion for one of my favorite clips:
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI89TD66CT8
Incidentally watching for the first time. This show is one hell of a ride. You could say too much cheese and trash sometimes but I have a soft spot for that.
DeleteRegarding Sword Dream, this github page lists several scenarios and I understand Spirit of Darkness was created for (and released with?) the original 1993 version (while some of the others are described as being for the later 3D version).
ReplyDeleteThe Macintosh Repository (not sure if linking it is OK) has several versions of (the original) Sword Dream and also Spirit of Darkness as (only?) scenario which hints in the same direction (haven't downloaded / tested any of it myself so far, though).
This page in French confirms Spirit of Darkness was distributed with the original creation kit.
DeleteIt also mentions Secret of Greywood being another scenario for the original game (according to the github site, the latter scenario was designed to use the Apple Chancery font distributed as part of macOS 7.5 / QuickDraw GX and without it the text might look ugly).
Apparently, the Macintosh Repository has other scenarios, too, bundled in a download with the original (v1.7.1) and 3D version of the game.
Lorry in Lorrington is EGA; Tamrak seems to be full blown CGA, with an awful palette that comes with it.
ReplyDeleteI'm inclined to think that it *is* from 1988, as some sources put it.
Do you have any sources for 1988 besides classic reload - who apparently just have mislabeled a different game?
DeleteYou can play Tamrak from archive.org. Its startup screen states it's made in a construction kit released 1989, and the game itself does indeed date 1993.
DeleteYes, it's using the same construction kit as Lorrington. It apears that Tamrak was made in the unregistered shareware version, which only allows CGA graphics (and paying for the kit would allow EGA graphics, as Lorrington does).
Note that VGA graphics were available from 1987, but a shareware creation kit likely wasn't written for the latest hardware at the time.
Lorrington --- not to be confused with Captain Lorrington, the 'Gimlet King.'
DeleteSeeing RoA Star Trail on the upcoming list as the first 1994 title (based on a random roll, I understand), I was wondering if you finally decided against playing those games (1994) more or less chronologically in release order.
ReplyDeleteThat had come up on the 1994 list post when a commenter noted there is a scroll in Dark Sun: Wake of the Ravager (released in the autumn of 1994) replying to a scroll in Ultima VIII (released late March 1994) which itself "dissed" EoB III (1993).
I assume there aren't many such influences or references within a game year as the smaller 'random' games probably didn't have much impact while I suspect the bigger ones would not easily be able to include them at the last minute.
Nevertheless, FWIW (maybe just to help complement information in your Master Game List) I'll mention a couple (approximate) release dates for 1994 list games where I didn't see any so far in your MGL - apologies if this would be better suited on the 1994 list or Master Game List posts.
- Dark Designs IV: January 1994
(It's on #146 of the monthly Softdisks, the prior one had some Christmas-themed programs and the next two Dark Designs games on #151 (= June) and #157 (= December) were also released in 1994, see e.g. here)
- Jiji and the Mysterious Forest: 16 April 1994
(According to its page here.)
- Aethra Chronicles - May 1994?
(You have August 1st in the list. This page with game versions indicates a couple ones (version numbers unknown) prior to 1.0a of August 3rd, going back to late May, while this Usenet post mentions "Release: 1.0 5/94".
- World of Arch: 20 June1994 (in Finnish)
(According to this page.)
- Robinson's Requiem - (Latest) July 1994 ?
(Based on media publications listed on the Abandonware France site - not including a link as it itself links to download sites.)
- Ishar 3: The Seven Gates of Infinity - July 1994 ?
(According to this page and based on media publications listed on the Abandonware France site.)
- Realmz - prior to October/November 1994 ?
(Based on Usenet posts.)
- Istanbul Efsaneleri - probably quite late in 1994 ?
(Since probably influenced among others by RoA: Star Trail according to an interview conducted by Felipe Pepe.)
lovely list
DeleteGreetings! I didn't see a game like "Castle of the Winds I: A Question of Vengeance" and its sequel in your list of games for 1993.
DeleteRegarding the current selection of games to play, I am very glad that you have chosen RoA. This is one of my favorite games.
Doc Chet did Castle of the Winds already, Faramir :)
DeleteOops, that's right... my mistake. I looked in the file with the list of games "master game list", and I didn't find it in the list. Apparently it was necessary to update it. I downloaded it a long time ago so that I could watch it without the Internet.
DeleteI have nothing serious to content on any of the upcoming besides to say good luck and have fun!
ReplyDeleteThe name for Twinion rings a bell somewhere, but I can't imagine that I've actually played it
I think there was an anoying bug in Star Trail where you would loose all your equipment permanently (which you were supposed to get back) but this did not work. There is a discussion in the German DSA forum. Maybe a patch can solve this in the English version too?
ReplyDeletehttps://www.crystals-dsa-foren.de/showthread.php?tid=2981
https://www.crystals-dsa-foren.de/showthread.php?tid=5183
The same site offers a fan patch to correct this and a lot of other smaller bugs in the game. The Patch works for all language versions of the game:
Deletehttp://nlt-wiki.crystals-dsa-foren.de/doku.php/downloads
The link you need is called "Sternenschweif Fanpatch".
By the way, I discussed this for Betrayal at Krondor earlier, but wanted to reiterate that GOG's default dosbox video settings are really not faithful to how the games originally looked. After playing Krondor through Dosbox-Staging, I'm never going back. The CRT emulation is so much better than smoothing filters, the colors are truer (not overly saturated), and most importantly, the aspect ratio is correct, not stretched horizontally. Here's a comparison for Star Trail: https://imgur.com/a/yG1c9im
ReplyDeleteI know it adds another manipulation - you need to make a copy of GOG's installation and then change the folder structure and conf files a bit to conform to DB-staging's way, but it might be worth it for "big" games you plan to spend some time on. I can share configuration files/tips if needed.
To play the game as it was originally played you need to travel back to the early 90s and be young again. The CRT shaders are to me overblown filters who recreate the original experience in the same way 2010s synthwave recreate the 80s music.
DeleteI'm usually fine with the opengl smoothness and keeping aspect ratio but if not many of the dosbox branches allow window resizing with the opengl rendering. As for opl3, nuked does the job very well, and the mount emulation does mt32 well enough. Most of the heavy general midi soundbanks are out of tune or just don't work the fade in/out effects well so I prefer lighter ones.